Church History: 1200-1300

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27 Responses

  1. pstrmike says:

    You can find Aristotle’s influence in both Justin and Augustine. Aristotle was brilliant thinker. He constructed his doctrine of the mean which identifies virtue along with its deficient and excess actions or vices. Nicomachean Ethics is a great read in virtuous character and actions. His work in causal theory was instrumental in assisting Aquinas in his apologetic for the existence of God in Summa Theologiae.

  2. Michael says:

    The interesting thing is that after being lost for so long, the church got these writing through the Muslims…and used two Muslim commentators as their base of understanding Aristotle for a long time.

  3. Learner says:

    Good stuff Michael…love the Aquinas quote, I suspect you’re right, this will be the summation of all our “thoughts about God”

  4. The Inquisition and the Crusades were the apocalypse of coercion. Out of the cauldron of these acts of zeal would come the arguments that most control our public narrative today. They were the seed bed for those who dreamt of freedom and believed that freedom meant to be unmolested in your personal search for truth.

    It took a long time but the emergence of first the protestants and second the radicals was rooted in the desire for relief from oppression. Freedom of conscience and separation of Church and state is on the horizon now though distant.

    The Inquisition and its implications are still being worked out. It is a by-word for rejection of Christianity in the pseudo-academia of nascent thinkers. In other words, college freshman get intimidated by bullying leaders who wish to free them from their superstitions. Mere mention of the Inquisition is akin to dismissing those with zeal for God. Rejection of Christianity today over the Inquisition is akin to leaving the Democrat party today over the history of slavery.

    Moreover, in New Mexico we are just now having a fresh wave of impact from the Inquisition as significant numbers of citizens find some form of Jewish identity in the sephardic history of our state. Strangely evangelicals and charismatics are leaving Christianity and identifying as Messianic Jews because they manage to find some slender genealogical link in their DNA to historic Hebrew bloodlines.

    All I am really saying is that when we spit in the ocean we sometimes cause a tidal wave across the world.

  5. Michael says:

    Thanks, Learner.

    BD, well said…and that movement in your state boggles my mind.

  6. EricL says:

    Messianic Christianity was quite a fad in SoCal about 15-20 years ago but seems to have faded. The vast majority of these people had no Jewish background.

    I was teaching a Bible study for local college students back then and had to deal with this quite a bit. Funny thing, even though I wasn’t a supporter, at one time I had almost a dozen Messianics coming to my study regularly. We even had a professor from a Baptist university leading a Messianic congregation, and he certainly wasn’t Jewish.

    The saddest thing that came from it all was a couple whom I considered good friends, who ended up rejecting Christ completely and becoming traditional Jews. They wanted to out-do their fellow Messianics and ended up embracing law rather than Jesus.

  7. EricL

    What is happening here is rabid, exclusive and noncompromising. It is an all or nothing movement of Judaizing. The people I deal with are intolerant and unyielding. They act like reading Hebrew is Eden itself. They mock you for your ignorance and unenlightened mind. They divide friends, alienate their family members destroy fellowship. And it has as many flavors as adherents and they are equally intolerant of each other.

  8. The sweet fragrance of God’s original people coming home to Messiah has been replaced by straight up neo-pharisaism. The use of Hebrew phrases is required to join the conversation.

  9. EricL says:

    For a time, many in one Messianic group saw me as an enemy, even accusing me of praying curses on their rabbi and congregation. I remember the zeal for Hebrew and feasts, for proper attire and ram’s horns. They loved the trappings and the “secret knowledge” of restoring things to a golden time of closeness to YHWH.

    That is a tendency in us humans: the wanting to return to a mythical “golden age”, be it the 1950s or Puritan New England or Calvin’s Geneva or Ancient Israel.

    I’m sorry you are having to endure the Judaizers.

  10. Messianic Jews just need to be told that they are doing the very opposite from what Jesus told Christians to do – “Go into all the world…” Not circle the wagons.

    I say it all the time – it is my opinion that Messianic Jews are not Christians at all – they are a cult who happen to use the name Jesus, just as the Mormons and the JWs do.

  11. EricL says:

    The Messianic movement is a mixed bunch. I attended a Passover meal with some who turned it into a beautiful celebration of Christ, seeing him in all the various rituals and traditions.

    Nonetheless, we are granted freedom in Christ, so why burden yourself with laws and rules that the Bible specifically tells us do not apply to us? Acts 15:28-29

    I, for one, don’t find a life of legalism appealing

  12. Kevin H says:

    Reggie White was one of my heroes. He played for my Eagles and was one of the greatest football players of all time. Beyond the football field, I admired him for the way he conducted his life and was always preaching Christ. Sadly, when his playing days were over, he devolved heavily into some form of Messianic Judaism. He gave up his role as a pastor and all the evangelism he used to do. Whenever the topic of Messianic Judaism comes up, I am always sadly reminded of what happened to Reggie the last few years of his life.

  13. BD,
    You ought to write an article about that subject. I think many people have been touched by this in some way shape or form.

  14. Michael says:


    I agree…lets make him work…

  15. I find it both fascinating and scary that the “circumcision” crowd is back in action today.
    Truly there is nothing new under the sun. Everything rolls around again.
    This is so insidious though and needs to be slapped down by a new generation.
    Can we hope they will go the full measure and emasculate themselves? 😉

  16. bige says:

    @10. To make a sweeping statement that messianic jews as a whole are not born again Christians is utterly preposterous. I have met some wonderful born again believers who attend some of these churches. The ones that i have met are charismatic in leaning and filled with the Spirit. I would be better to say the Lutheran denomination probably holds very few born again Christians.

  17. Nonnie says:

    “I, for one, don’t find a life of legalism appealing.” Amen

    YES!! I would love to read a BD article on this subject!

  18. BD is talking about people who have a bit of Jewish ancestry who have decided to place themselves under a burden.
    My great-grandfather was Jewish, but you don’t see me wanting to place myself back under the Law.
    I think this was the goal of God all along.
    Not to have two different types of Christians, Messianic Jews and Gentile Christians, but Christians alone.
    Some people need to go re-read Galatians.

  19. Nonnie says:

    Derek I think many Messianic Jews believe they are a cut above us Gentiles. :- D

  20. bige,
    “better to say the Lutheran denomination probably holds very few born again Christians.”

    Can you tell me the difference between ‘born again’ christians vs what must be ‘regular’ christians? I would think that you are either a christian or you are not.

    Look, I know many Mormons who are saved – they were (I will use your language) born again christian who fell into a cult and have not realized the teaching change. I think Messianic Judaism is a cult and they attrac many weak mined christians with Jewish roots.

    How can you claim to be a christian and put yourself back under law?

  21. Nonnie,
    That is usually my sense from them to. They seem to think that we are unenlightened.

  22. EricL says:

    In the fad that hit my area of SoCal a decade or more ago, the vast majority of Messianic practitioners had NO Jewish blood in them or direct connection to the Jewish faith. They were Gentiles pretending to be Jews, just with Jesus thrown in. They were also selective in their Jewishness. It was not modern Judaism that they wanted to copy, it was some mythical idea of pure faith that never existed in Israel’s sad history of disobedience.

    Kind of like rewriting history and then play-acting that you live in that new reality, complete with costumes, stilted language, and stage props.

  23. bige says:

    @ MLD

    You know exactly why I used the term “born again Christian”. We need to be specific in our “day in age ” because the meaning of the “Christian” is being redefined by the world and apostate churches, including our own President. Is Jesus of Nazareth or is it Jesus my gardener from Guatemala. I understand the problem of embracing the (old cov) law as substitute for faith in Christ alone unto salvation. From what ive seen in the messianic gentile churches is they embraced the jewishness of the culture and ceremonies. Paul says don’t let anyone judge you towards days, special days or observations. But on the other hand if one brother thinks eating this meat is unclean, for conscience sake don’t offend the conscience of the brother who is weak in faith. Remember he is still a brother, even though he is weak in faith. I think invented term “messianic jew. Is used by these born again jews, to distinguish themselves from there Jewish communities, that’s my guess. We all know people who label themselves Christians but are not really Christians but as John says, they lie and walk not in the truth. The early church was all Jewish till the revelation to Peter about the house of Cornelius. I know I don’t need to give you a bible study on these things as you know the scriptures well. But my point is, the sweeping assumption that you made about messianic churches are not “Christians” meaning born again Christians is totally unfounded. Ive traveled most of US to 3rd world nations like India, Latin America and also Europe visiting the churches. Your sweeping generalization that even these Messianic churches are cults again is totally unfounded. If these churches are teaching its members it must adhere to the law of moses as a means too righteousness than that is different. But in my experience visiting some of these churches and meeting many of these so called born again jews. Even though they celebrate the jewish holidays. I have not seen any evidence that this is a prevalent problem with these so called messianic churches. If you have proof, or stories then share.

  24. Nonnie says:

    bige, weren’t the Jewish festivals (holidays) just a shadow of the reality, which is Christ? Why spend your life celebrating the shadow, when the reality has come? Celebrate Christ!
    That’s what I don’t get about Messianic Jews. Why not be a Christian? Why the separation? Galatians 3:28

  25. bige,
    Well, we disagree for different reasons.
    When they are around you, they will put forth their best ‘christian’ side. The difference is I listen to them debate guys like Tovia Singer and Jews forJudaism, and they do the opposite – for the Jew they put forth their ‘jewish’ side and when you hear it does not pass the smell test..

    Do you understand that groups like Jews for Jesus go into the Jewish communities and tell these people that they do not need to change anything, remain Jewish, be an observant jew, but you just need to add Jesus as an overlay to your life. I think they miss that “new creation” stuff.

    Look, be a christian or be a jew- let’s not have any of this Muslims for Jesus where they keep all the Muslim trappings but say they have added Jesus on top

    *** btw – who get’s to decide this apparent to you dividing line between a ‘born again’ christian and the regular christian? If someone declares themselves a christian, do you have a short 10 question routine you run them through to say, “well, you may be a christian, but you are no born again christian” ***

    One last thing, is there a difference between a bible believing christian and a born again christian? Can you be a bible believing christian and not be a born again christian?

    It sounds stupid to me too..

  26. Bob says:


    Can one be a Lutheran and not be a Christian?

  27. Bob,
    I don’t know why you are trying to turn this back on Lutherans. I said in my first post that I am sure that there are saved people in the Messianic movement – just like there are saved people in Mormonism – but they are not saved because of Mormonism, but because of their previous teaching in Christianity.

    Now your question about Christians in the Lutheran church … I am sure that there are some who have slipped in. 🙂 ** I am taking your definition of ‘Christian’ as those who go to church but are not saved.

    I don’t know why you want to call fake believers Christians and call real believer ‘born again’ Christians. To me people are either Christians or not Christians.

    You must have more experience at this than I do. This morning I am really going to pay attention (I don’t need to listen to the sermon) but I am going to do like you and see if I can tell by looking, who seated there is ‘only’ a Christian and who is a ‘born again’ Christian.

    I will report back.

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