Linkathon!
Blame David, not Bathsheba…John MacArthur and the dangers of literalism…
Your favorite pastimes are getting more expensive…
Faith, fellowship, and board games…
Jordon Peterson wants to completely ruin churches…
Why watching”Elvis” made me think of megachurch pastors…
J.D. Hall accused of domestic assault and embezzlement…
More on Protestantism’s decline…
Republicans get on board same-sex marriage train…
Church of England no longer has an official definition of “woman”…
The death rattle of a tradition…
More later…
MacArthur never ceases to amaze me! He continues to make outrageous claims. I bought his books in the 70’s and 80’s, they made great kindling for my woodstove in the 90’s.
JD Hall needs professional help and should never be allowed near a pulpit again. His family needs help needs before they ever let him in the home again. I always thought the guy was off, but now I think he is past the point where even his church can help him. He may be in jail for a while, too. It actually might help him to refocus his life.
As for MacArthur, I think he has been over-awed by his own ability to preach. I do find some of his preaching excellent, and then there are the “other utterances” that cause my very straight hair to curl. The only consolation I have is that, given his age, he won’t be in the pulpit forever. What I also find fascinating is that my current church hired two Master’s Seminary pastors who are not MacArhthur clones. They each have their own style and differ with MacArthur on a number of points.
The Jordan Peterson video is FANTASTIC!
Xenia,
How is it fantastic that someone who is not a believer is giving marching orders to the church without any mention or concept of the Gospel…and in direct opposition to Christian principles.
J.D. Hall has always been who he is…he just finally got caught…
Jordan P. is not an atheist anymore, and he spends a great deal of time around Christians. His fans believe he is on the very cusp of conversion. He is very pro-Church, but he hasn’t taken that leap of faith yet.
Xenia,
I did not hear a single thing that was about the Gospel…which is the heart of the message of the church.
It already has enough right wing talking points obscuring that message.
I could care less about his various philosophies…the Gospel I care very much about.
I did see that he affirmed same sex marriage so his fan base may shrink…
He is not a preacher of the Gospel because he is not a Christian. I do not expect to hear a Gospel message from someone who is not a Christian. However, he sees what’s wrong with the West and he knows the Church is, somehow, part of the answer. He’ll get there, you’ll see.
My understanding of the Gospel is that the church is to make disciples more like Jesus, not some template for Western men…the appeal of this line to Christians completely baffles me…but most of the world does at this point.
He wants men to be honest and courageous and not to be cowed by feminism. I agree with this.
Peterson may not be a convert but he understands the cross better than most Christians … his talk to Joe Rogan about the Serpent on the Pole is one of a kind.
If anyone wants a proper understanding of Bill Johnson take a listen to him the week his wife Beni died.
Surprising characters abound
I had a bunch of people rave about the Peterson video. I had the same reaction as Michael.
PH,
I knew when I posted it that it would gain much approval…and I would be even more baffled by what is now the “Christian” message in this country.
“JD Hall needs professional help and should never be allowed near a pulpit again.” My view on this, I miss Braxton, I could care less what his father did pretending to be Jihad jr. That’s the game and trust me it is a game. But a kid, living his best through the Grace of God so much in pain. I get that makes me a pathetic, degenerate waist of air, trust me I get that I sure hear it enough. As for JD I hope he gets help and he changes. Again another reason I will be eternally damned, showing weakness of any kind for anyone, EVER. As for returning to the pulpit, it will happen, that is more sure than the resurrection. I have always found the Evangelical view of the faith in practice rather strange. Again a reason for my damnation.
As for Jordon Peterson, he is very articulate and quite well versed. I have to admit I am envious of his ability to write. I cant seem to get that for various personal flaws being dyslexic and having vision problems. I am trying to remediate such issues to my shame. No offense and I am most likely wrong but people actually take him seriously? Humans and human interaction and divine interaction intertwined in human interaction is far more complex that what he goes on about.
I was watching WW2 movies portraying real folks in horrendous situations, Audie Murphy comes to mind. A brave and broken soul seeking the grace to be forgiven and the healing of the horrors he had to see and do. I don’t think Mr. Peterson gets that, I know I don’t, which is why I am grateful for the gift they gave our species. I always struggle with folks I know to be well versed not making much sense.
Protagoras made a statement that is famously rendered “man is the measure of all things.” Of course the Greeks found the gods to be unknowable and rendered them manlike. This claim found its way into Enlightenment thinking and of course, Postmodern nonsense. Also, Karl Barth has been quoted as amending that idea to, “since God himself became a man, man is the measure of all things.” ( IDK if he said it, I cannot find it – but I take the idea seriously. The Barth attribution would be Christocentric.
In contrast we are experiencing in our churches – as demonstrated by the Book of Common Prayer article; the outcome of anthropocentric theology. What we know of God comes from human revelation. Scripture thus is interpreted through the hermeneutic of human experience; pain and pleasure. The sovereign man reveals all. Present day developments are de facto bits of the new cannon. Paul gives way to Freud and Moses to Mao. At present the victim has ascended to deity itself but that’s been noted elsewhere.
We must do Christ centered theology if we want to partake in kingdom realities. We must also care about the here and now. Our stewardship of the present hour is all we have. There can be no waiting for kingdom come in fullness – it is fraudulent to claim impotence and wait for the master to return. That circumstance has a bad outcome according to Jesus’ parables. Likewise, Israel’s failure to steward their hour cost them dearly. Everything was given to another…
We don’t know why but we cannot go silent in the face of either immigration madness or cultural chaos. In all cases we are temporal stewards of the mysteries of Christ.
The Book of Common Prayer post can be relegated to mere culture wars in canonized contexts or it can be seen as divine calls to cruciform engagement. And what does that mean… it surely does not mean we seize power and conquer the Barbarians. It means we die with Christ – more than that – we give our backs to the smiters as Paul did while proclaiming truths that turn the world upside down.
I am sure this is madness but to this I have descended.
Dread
It is either the Apocalypse that you have outlined, or more possibly it is merely rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
“When the Presiding Bishop was elected, the membership of the entire Episcopal Church (both foreign and domestic dioceses) stood at 1,917,182. The latest 2020 figure is 1,736,882, a loss of 170,900 souls or 9.4% shrinkage.
COVID skewered the 2020 Parochial Reports because the churches were forced to shut down not only in the United States, but around the world.
The Average Sunday Attendance (ASA) in 2015 was 634,348. The 2020 ASA stands at 483,108, for a loss of 151,240 or 23.8%.
Adult baptisms took the biggest hit. In 2015, there were 4,200 baptisms worldwide in The Episcopal Church. After COVID hit, the baptisms dropped to 1,649, a loss of 2,551 adults seeking Episcopal baptism or a shedding of 60.7%.”
It is a dying institution that is flailing about without a certain identity. Again, it is influenced unduly by the culture. It is my feeling that the faith will now be found in small unexpected places.
Yes I think so,
The place of meeting is the table. We must meet people at our own table… daily bread and let it lead us to the table of Christ. Union and communion in Christ.. small is big. Those with whom we break bread must be our focus. Thus we accidentally make disciples …
Preach it Dread!
Thanks Michael, especially for the article about biblical literalism. I was enslaved by literalism.
“It means we die with Christ – more than that – we give our backs to the smiters as Paul did while proclaiming truths that turn the world upside down.”
I agree…but how does that square with the Peterson screed?
Michael,
St Peterson was not addressed in that post. But we can have a whole discussion about the prophet of anti-totalitarianism any time you like. God can ride a lame horse as he has demonstrated with us.
Illiberal Dread
Dread,
I’ve never seen or read anything from him other than what I posted.
I don’t give a rats ass about his political views…but I resent someone addressing the church with a distortion of the Gospel…because we have noted that much of the church already has a distorted view of the Gospel…
Michael,
Distortions of the Gospel are as abundant as fleas on a warthog, but everyone must receive a classic Phoenix Preacher blast so — it’s his turn. I will still use his line challenging men to embody the Genesis assignments. That rhetoric was better than any preaching I have heard on my wandering the USA. But then I blasted them for not preaching Jesus also so your point it taken.
Peterson’s “accusations” in the video only paint in extremes. Sure, there is some of what he is saying, but there is also some truth in the opposition. While the extreme “Human activity kills the planet” view is unhelpful, it is also not the mainstream view that you will encounter when you interact with people that are concerned about the environment. Surely, we could all agree that here are some steps we could, and should take to clean up the environment, but polarism like this leaves no room for compromise.
Who would try to paint this black and white divide? Certainly not someone who is interested in solutions. We know that solutions will only be found in the middle. Now, if you are trying to sell books, extreme ideas are way more marketable than rational discourse.
And obviously, the church should have no role in promoting traditional western masculinity. We should be teaching our men to imitate Christ, and nothing else.
Dread,
I just had a congregant unexpectedly die.
She came to us old and bitter and she left this world knowing the love of the church and Christ.
I haven’t done much right …but the laser focus on Jesus changed a life… and a death.
That is all I have to offer and it’s wondrous.
Josh,
I’ll say the amen…well said.
I did want to point out that Dread’s comment at 8:11 am is very good.
Josh,
How are you? If that can be asked on a blog. I don’t think I have any private contact way to ask that but that matters more than our variant thoughts on St Pete…
How are you?
Dread – life has not gone my way. Picking up pieces and starting to find my footing again, but yeah, not great.
Feel free to hit me up at jamesjoshuahamrick@gmail if you’d like to talk, argue, or whatever.
Josh, I believe most people want a clean planet. I certainly do. However, it is really easy to capitalize on these seemingly commonsense things that tug on our heart strings to push a very dubious agenda in the spirit of finding solutions. However, something revolutionary is happening in our culture and I’m convinced its genesis is not from a grass roots movement. Check out the ESG credit scores for companies. It finally makes sense to me why large companies are suddenly going woke. They are not doing this because they care about the environment or people, they are doing this because they are financially incentivised to play the game. No hearts have been changed though. Peterson may not have the solution but at least he knows the some of the problems and knows who should have the solutions (the church).
The church only has “answers” for believers and then only for certain questions.
The Scriptures have yet to yield an answer for climate change (if there even is one), not does it provide a template for most political matters.
It actually seems to favor monarchy…
I’m surprised that the article on David hasn’t gotten any traction…
Steve – you are just listening to the extreme position from the other side. Neither is helpful.
I think the silence on the CT article about David is simply not controversial in this day and time but then I don’t dwell among the crowd that blames women for male lust.
My concerns are more on the level of how completely we’ve stood by and allowed masculinity to be derided and frankly how successful we’ve been at destroying it. There I gave you the red meat without making it the CT article.
But scripture is clear…
4 Nevertheless, for David’s sake the LORD his God gave him a lamp in Jerusalem, setting up his son after him, and establishing Jerusalem, 5 because David did what was right in the eyes of the LORD and did not turn aside from anything that he commanded him all the days of his life, except in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.1 Ki 15:4–5.
But for sure in the fundamentalist days Bathsheba was on the “shameless hussy” list.
Interesting
I long for the days when I thought I had all the answers. There was a quiet confidence and assurance that comforted me. As I’ve gotten older and learned more, my theological world is no longer black and white; it’s mostly gray.
Evidently, I live in some sort of silo…I haven’t noticed that masculinity has been destroyed.
I think the definition has been expanded, mostly for the better…
Josh,
Email came back due to maintenance…?
I am less certain about a lot of things…more certain than ever about Jesus…
And a large portion of what people are deriding about masculinity is in fact awful stuff. Once again, don’t aim for “masculine” aim for Christlike.
I will concede this…I have advised T to use extreme caution when speaking to women or attempting to date…innocent flirting has been conflated with harassment…
I love being an outlier here.
Toxic Dread
Dread,
I think it actually serves us well…I loathe echo chambers.
Dread – Looks like its working. Remind me of yours, and I’ll send the first.
“I have advised T to use extreme caution when speaking to women or attempting to date”
Yep, and if it goes further, he maught want to get a signed consent form. It is dangerous out there, for real.
You’ll have to initiate
alan@newlifecity.org
Masculinity and femininity descriptions go hand in hand. You destroy one, you destroy the other simultaneously. I think the meme with the two bathroom doors says it all. The first bathroom door says “Men” with the proper pronouns him/his underneath. The other door reads “Women and Everyone else” with a list of pronouns that goes the entire length of the door.
I am posting random thoughts this morning. Hope that’s ok. It may be Covid brain. I tested positive last Monday. It’s the only thing I brought back from Hawaii
Many Christian’s cry “foul” at the cancel culture. Yet they are often times the quickest to decry their own.
For instance , Christian artist Lauren Daigle has been marginalized by many believers for appearing on the Ellen Degeneress show, not openly condemning homosexuality, and not identifying herself as a “christian” artist.
Amy Grant was disowned. For going thru a divorce from her husband Gary Chapman and for “crossing over” into secular music.
A local band Mercy made the decision to minister in local bars. They wanted to go to the where the non believers are. They were publicly put down by their pastor.
Christians are just as guilty of canceling their own as anyone. Isn’t that the definition of hypocrisy?
Like I said, “Covid brain”.
Officer,
The BAN has been a standard of Christianity so you are correct enough.
But this public thing has tentacles that were demonstrated by Pierre Trudeau and the creeping tendency of business to partner with government in censuring those it want to bring into alignment…
DEI in corporate America and in Government is a kind of shadow government over all and it is pervasive. We’ve had it in enough increments that a we push back less and less and even act like it is not happening. But it is.
But yes it is part of our Puritan New England heritage and has had many iterations.
Jim Eagle Dread
At OfficerHoppy’s 11:37 you said: “ I long for the days when I thought I had all the answers. There was a quiet confidence and assurance that comforted me. As I’ve gotten older and learned more, my theological world is no longer black and white; it’s mostly gray.”. Been there, done that, too. For the past 10+ years my motto has been, “The older I get the more I realize how sinful I am and how gracious God is.” I’m very sure of that and I’m not too sure about much else, but I can pray the Lord’s Prayer and the Jesus prayer, in peace and His comfort. Blessings to you, my friend.