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32 Responses

  1. Duane Arnold says:

    “The church is still pre-Copernican in its attitude toward death. The medieval picture of heaven and hell hasn’t been replaced with anything more realistic, or more loving. Perhaps for those who are convinced that only Christians of their own way of thinking are saved and will go to heaven, the old ideas are still adequate. But for most of us, who see a God of a much wider and greater love than that of the tribal God who only cares for his own little group, more is needed. And that more is a leap of faith, an assurance that that which has been created with love is not going to be abandoned. Love does not create and then annihilate.”

    Madeleine L’Engle, Preface to ‘A Grief Observed’ by C.S. Lewis

  2. Michael says:

    Duane’s going to get me in trouble…love that quote….

  3. Dread says:

    I already indicated earlier this week that our obsession with heaven and hell destinies is simply not the framework within which he Gospel good news is framed.

    The Good News was the announcement of the return of the King to the throne and the opening of the gates to the whole cosmos.

  4. Duane Arnold says:


    I try… I really do try… 😁

  5. Em says:

    Seems to me we need to take our Eternal destination seriously. Scripture indicates that God does…
    That said, one of my children years ago asked, “what if someone dies anf has never heard the Gospel?” Now i know there are various answers to that, but i told my child that God knows hearts and wont judge you for rejecting what you never knew…. is that correct? I don’t know…. ?

    Thanking our Lord today for a successfully closed (i think) Real Estate transaction…

  6. Gabby says:

    Duane, such a beautiful quote. Thank you for sharing it. It made me think of this quote I’ve seen attributed to her:

    “I cannot believe that God wants punishment to go on interminably any more than does a loving parent. The entire purpose of loving punishment is to teach, and it lasts only as long as is needed for the lesson. And the lesson is always love.”

    And this quote that she references in An Acceptable Time:

    “But all the wickedness in the world which man may do or think is no more to the mercy of God than a live coal dropped in the sea.” – William Langland

    Sorry if this gets you in more trouble, Michael 😬

  7. Michael says:


    It makes me very happy that some folks are willing to entertain troubling thought…your quotes do as well…

  8. Jean says:

    “I already indicated earlier this week that our obsession with heaven and hell destinies is simply not the framework within which he Gospel good news is framed.”

    There is a very famous quote attributed to Luther, for which there is no evidence that he ever said it. I have no idea whether Luther said it, but believe he might have, because he lived his life this way:

    “Even if I knew the world would end tomorrow, I would plant an apple tree today.” Think about that. Think about how long it would take an apple tree to produce an apple from the time it was first planted.

    At the end of the “resurrection chapter”, Paul makes a remarkable statement: “Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.” Did you hear that in the Lord our work, or labor (i.e., the good works we do in faith in our respective vocations) is not in vain.

    Sadly, some Christians, particularly conservative dispensationalists seem to almost cheer for the world to go to hell so that Christ will return and rapture the church. Other conservative Christians don’t seem to see the Christian faith as one which seeks the welfare of the world, people first, but also animal and plant life and our ecology. The creation groans too!

    Heaven is real; hell is real. But, secure in our destiny, Christians are free to live in the manner and order that God intended for mankind to live. Somehow, the works we do in the Lord are not in vain!

  9. Em says:

    This conservative dispensationalist KNOWS that God takes no pleasure in the deaths of the wicked – thus, neither do i…. 😔
    We need teachers evidently….. Jean’s observation is sad, if true
    When the Bride of Christ is complete, Crist will return…. IMHO

  10. Em says:

    Something that i am pondering right now is the O.T. directive from God to the descendants of Abraham…
    They were, essentially, directed to kill the heathens in their promised land….
    If left alive, they seemed to dilute the confidence that God’s chosen had in their God…
    How does that apply to us today? If it does? ? ?

  11. Muff Potter says:

    Em wrote:
    “How does that apply to us today? If it does? ? ?”

    I can only speak for myself.
    The Bible is a great and wonderful thing, but I also think that it’s possible to make way too much of it.
    In the case of the Canaanite genocide, I just leave it where it is, devoid of any “application” (other than historical reference) in our here and now.

  12. Em says:

    point taken, Muff
    the only relevance that i’ve come up with after some thinking on it, is that the Church is directed to keep a clean house and not tolerate any subversion or perversions…. God’s Kingdom
    Earthly kingdoms? what can we do, if anything……

  13. Today I came out of church to find that someone had walked through our parking lot, putting conservative election guides for an upcoming local election on every car. Man, did that annoy me. For one, I hate the blending of politics and Sunday worship. On top of that, it bugs me to think that someone might think our church placed the fliers or, at least, okayed their distribution.

  14. Dan from Georgia says:


    This happened to my church back in around ’89, ’90 or 91. This marked the beginning of my distancing myself from evangelicalism.

  15. Steve says:

    Dan, what are you then?

  16. Steve says:

    PH, I assume from your comment you wished there to be no election guides either liberal or conservative on any vehicle and you wish there to be complete and total separation of any conversation related to politics out of any religious gathering?

  17. Michael says:


    I would have been more than annoyed…especially if someone in the congregation had done it.
    I would have lost my sanctification… 🙂

  18. Pineapple Head says:

    I don’t think it was someone from the church, but can’t say for sure. Our city has a lot of amped-up Christian political crusaders. To Steve’s interestingly worded query, no, I do not desire any politicking at church…no matter what the flavor.

  19. Dan from Georgia says:

    Still a Christian, Steve

  20. bob1 says:

    Our city has a lot of amped-up Christian political crusaders.

    So predictable.

    We’re barely 100 days in to Biden’s presidency and the Religious Right is already acting like hysterical Keystone cops.

    Gotta keep drumming up the (phony) outrage. Never too early.

    The mid-terms are almost 2 years away! Absolutely no need for these flyers right now. None.

    Good God. Get ready for the gulags, I guess…

  21. Dan from Georgia says:

    A few thoughts:

    – wife and myself planning on traveling to Minnesota next month. Never thought that I would want to avoid driving inside the 494/694 loop due to possible civil unrest. Minneapolis and other cities will need prayer ahead of the trial verdict coming up.

    – further thought (in response to Steve’s question): not all deconstruction leads to apostasy. Some good things can come out of it. At this time in my life I struggle with my past in evangelicalism. I have not left the faith, and not going to be trendy and refer to myself a “Christ follower”. I am a Christian, and always will be. This site, as well as the now-defunct Internet Monk, are the only places I have felt safe to reveal where I am at.

    – Theology of Pets (thought from recent comments from the Desert Island thread): my wife and I are close to saying goodbye to our beloved Andy (pet beagle). No heavy or deep thought here, but the Bible sez in Proverbs something to the effect of “blessed is the one who cares for the needs of his animal.”

  22. CM says:

    This is a pretty damning article on the reluctance of evangelicals to get the COVID vaccine. Made even more so than it is a pastor, paramedic, and strong Trump supporter who is trying to get people in his community vaccinated. The full story is linked in the article below:

  23. Pineapple Head says:

    Bob1, The fliers I wrote of were for local elections being held in May. They had nothing to do with the national stage. For the record, I find the antics of some on the right or left equally annoying. There are creepy crusaders in both camps.

  24. Duane Arnold says:


    Thinking of you, your wife and Andy… so very hard.

  25. Michael says:


    I have to go to Portland in two weeks…having the same fears.
    My heart is with you and your wife and your dear fur friend…

  26. Dan from Georgia says:

    Thank you so much Duane and Michael.

  27. Xenia says:

    I, too, am traveling to Minneapolis next month. Lord have mercy on us all!

  28. Dan from Georgia says:

    Derek Chauvin verdict coming up.

    My sister who lives in a Minneapolis suburb sent my wife and I a few pictures from downtown Minneapolis. The pictures you see on Drudgereport and other new outlets are not staged or exaggerated. Most street-level windows are boarded up and there are NUMEROUS humvees around and many military personal out and about.

  29. Jean says:

    I don’t know why it feels like a miracle that something as simple as justice was done.

  30. Everstudy says:


    I hope justice was done and not a scared or intimidated jury. Or a jury that had made up it’s mind before the trial.

    I generally don’t trust juries, not after some of the criminal trials here in So. Cal. over the last 20-25 years.

  31. Em says:

    Pondering again today… thinking about all the evil, the societal havoc that attitude ( I’m “entitled” ) generates…
    “Im entitled to a good, prosperous liife?”
    God replies, “Just how did you come to that conclusion?”
    the entitled one replies, “Why do You ask? It’s my god given right! ! !”
    God says,
    ” There are none so blind as those who will NOT see! “

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