Repent of Telling Political Lies: Kevin H

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39 Responses

  1. Jean says:

    “Nevertheless, when it has come to politics these last several years, and especially on the subject of a stolen election, so many Christians have forged a large and renowned and utterly regrettable reputation of being foolish and obstinate, making it all the harder for all of us Christians to be taken seriously when we speak of our faith.”

    Yep! It also makes it hard to speak of truth and the principle of objective truth when Christians accept as true assertions without any corresponding evidence. This just shows post moderns that Christian truth claims are tools of oppression.

  2. Kevin H says:

    Tools of oppression and tools of self-chosen ignorance.

  3. Captain Kevin says:

    “I have asked this question many times, probably mostly rhetorically, but I have also yet to ever have anyone venture to try to answer it…”

    That’s because there is no worthy defense. It hampers the witness of even those of us don’t buy into the lies.

  4. Kevin H says:

    CK,

    Yeah, in my many writings on Facebook, I have come to find that people won’t even to try to answer this question or similar ones I have posed. Occasionally I have had a few feign an answer, acting as if they were answering it, but rather they were obfuscating and misdirecting and were instead answering questions of their own making that were much more to their liking. Most, however, seemingly won’t even acknowledge the existence of the question, even when I repeat it it conversation. Some have taken the easier road and just unfriend me.

  5. Dan from Georgia says:

    Thanks Kevin for this.

    There are people who post here (or used to) that need to do this.

    There, I said it.

  6. Terry says:

    We know from the outset that there is one candidate who will only accept one election outcome. So if that candidate is the nominee, neither he nor his followers will acknowledge a loss as anything but a stolen election.

  7. Linn says:

    I do not understand why devout Christians, who subscribe to the Living Truth of salvation in Jesus, would believe a lie about a stolen election. I’m not a great fan of the current administration, but supporting someone who is now up on criminal charges (and may end up in jail) and supported an insurrection against his own government, really frightens me. If Trump wins in 2024, those Christians who vote for him will get what they deserve, and the rest of us will suffer in the process.

  8. Jean says:

    “If Trump wins in 2024, those Christians who vote for him will get what they deserve, and the rest of us will suffer in the process.”

    Especially the “vermin.” Who are the vermin? That’s what concerns me.

  9. Kevin H says:

    I share in the fear of what could come of our country if Trump were to win again. The first time around was a learning experience for him and many times he didn’t know how to get his way….. now he knows.

  10. Michael says:

    I understand the concerns and the fears…but let’s keep these political issues completely within the scope of how we respond in faith, faithfully, to these issues.

  11. Kevin H says:

    Linn, sometimes I don’t get it either. But then I also remember that Christians are many times just as susceptible at making idols and being deceived as anyone else. They have been deceived (with strong elements of it being self deception) into believing that Trump and partisan politics are the way of God. They have convinced themselves that they are following after the ways of God and have made an idol of them. By no means am I a psychologist, but it would seem that so many are so deep in, that it is very hard to pull out and very hard to recognize objective truth.

  12. Kevin H says:

    Yes, Michael I agree. In many ways, it is fear that have driven many to Trump and MAGA and we must be careful not to fall into the trap in the opposite direction.

  13. Michael says:

    Kevin,

    Agreed.

    I want to address these issues head on as you have…but we’ll be lost in a quagmire if we go another direction.

    We may be anyway, but we’ll try… 🙂

  14. Muff Potter says:

    The cycles of history repeat over and over again.
    A slide into totalitarianism for our Nation is scary for sure.
    If I remember correctly, it happened to the German people in the 1930s.

  15. Jean says:

    “I understand the concerns and the fears…but let’s keep these political issues completely within the scope of how we respond in faith, faithfully, to these issues.”

    I will try to do just that:

    Instilling fear and anger are tools of political campaigns. It was always there in the form of negative campaign ads. But it is louder now where opponents are called enemies, communists, fascists, vermin, and other de-humanizing names. On both sides, people are encouraged to fear the loss of their rights.

    I understand that an unbeliever is in rebellion against God, so I am not surprised that he/she would promote fear and anger in a political campaign. Their entire hope is in this temporal existence, so their rights here and now are all they have. Therefore, they will do anything they can to scrape whatever gain they can out of this miserable world, regardless of at who’s expense their gains come from.

    But a church and Christian pastors and teachers should not be promoting anger and fear (except fear of the Lord). The Christian knows that Christ is Lord and King, that he has overcome the world, that he has redeemed his own for eternal life, and that he is going come again to judge this entire world.

    It would be red flag for me if I heard a fear and anger regarding other people or any social issue promoted from the pulpit or in a Bible study. How would one love their neighbors if they are angry with or afraid of them?

    For the individual Christian, if you find yourself with struggling with anxiety, stress, fear and/or anger over political, social or foreign affairs issues, you may want to ask yourself, Why? Not in the sense that these are imaginary emotions, but in the sense that something or someone (and not the Holy Spirit) is instilling these negative emotions in you. It could be social media; it could be co-workers, friends or family; it could be your church. Whatever it is, it is not from God and it may be harming your health. Consider what changes may be necessary to redirect your attention and priorities from a preoccupation with temporal issues (most of which you have very little or no control or influence over) to what Christ has done and promises to do for you.

    I don’t write as someone who has mastered the art of living ‘in but not of’ the world. But I am alert to the symptoms in my own life of the sin of misdirecting my priorities and cares. Just confessing those sins and repenting restores peace.

    I can’t fix the world, my church, my family or even myself. But in a spirit of peace I can try, with God’s help, to carrying out my stations in life faithfully to the best of my ability. That pleases God.

  16. Kevin H says:

    Jean,

    Some good words there. I don’t think that fear is necessarily always a bad thing, but it’s a matter of what we do with that fear. The fear of being burnt by a hot stove prevents us from touching that stove, and that’s a good thing. When we fear a politician who can bring harm or a political circumstance that could hurt us and/or others, we need to learn how to react virtuously and faithfully to those fears, and channel them into healthy actions and practices.

    Remembering that God can see us through any circumstance (the real meaning of Philippians 4:13) is a good start. Remembering that some day God is going to set all things right and that He doesn’t call us to be the ones to make everything right helps. Seeking to be consistently faithful to God’s commands to act justly, love mercy, walk humbly, and love our neighbor is a great compass to guide our thoughts and actions.

  17. JD says:

    Looks like everyone gets fired, if we focus on one verse:
    “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

    Thank God it is preceded by this verse:
    “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

    Let’s hope that will include Christians which may be political liars, lying pastors and lawyers as well who’s job it is to lie; although I don’t believe there will be even a cardboard Burger King crown for that.

    What else can we expect from people who are being taught that the Father is sitting on the Great White Throne to judge with Melchizedek at his right hand. That the atonement is merely at-one-ment, and justification means just as if you never sinned. You are a little god and all power is given to you. They swallow everything hook, line and sinker, then go out and do whatever they want.

    Don’t get me started on the cults of comic book and fairy tale theology.

    There really are two spirits gone out into the world; the Spirit of Truth, and the spirit of error. (tell me what I am quoting and you win a Crackerjack prize)

  18. Donner says:

    This is exactly the kind of post I feared would begin to appear in this space. Smear and accusations, condemnatory tone, seemingly “calling out” faceless Christian brothers for spreading lies (what you consider lies) and then demonizing these nameless Christian brothers by doing the exact same thing to them that you accuse them of doing. And when you do name an individual, such as “Pillow Guy,” you slander him by saying that he’s detached from reality, in effect, engaging in name calling. The Pillow Guy, as you derisively refer to him, publicly professes the name of Christ. So you accuse, shame and denigrate a brother. By the way, Mike Lindell presented a plethora of evidence in a comprehensive documentary. Have you considered the evidence he presented, or just rejected it out of hand? And this style of post inflames readers to jump on the commenting bandwagon, piling on what their flesh rises up to scream by posting further condemnation and accusation. Derision, sneering, virtue signaling and ridiculing people….those actions are certainly as unchristlike as the “spreading of lies” that is being railed against. Brother, can you not get your point across without using ad hominem tactics? Please. I have grown so weary of hit pieces. To be clear: my beef is not necessarily with the content of the post but with its tone and style. It comes off as a broad-brush smear painting of all “those” lying people, lumping them all into a generic group and then condemning the group. This is my opinion and thank you for allowing me to say my piece. Peace.

  19. Kevin H says:

    Donner,

    Was Jesus wrong to smear and accuse and use a condemnatory tone towards the Pharisees? Was Jesus wrong to call them names – brood of vipers, whitewashed tombs, etc.? Were the Old Testament prophets wrong to smear and accuse and use a condemnatory tone towards the people of Israel? Was Paul wrong to smear and accuse and use a condemnatory tone towards Peter?

    By no means am I saying that I am of the same status as Jesus or the OT prophets or the Apostle Paul. But they set the example that there are times where it is both righteous and necessary to publicly call out sin that is happening within the community of the People of God.

    It is not an enjoyable exercise for anyone involved, but if you have a beef with the “tone and style”, then I would ask you to honestly evaluate the many examples from Scripture when the same type of “tone and style” are used. I did not call out some nebulous group of people for some nebulous sin. I did not “broadbrush” all Christians or any specific group within Christianity. I specifically addressed Christians who have participated in this specific lie of a stolen election.

    At this point three years after the election, when no coherent or evidence-based argument has ever been given in a court of law (the mechanism by which truth claims are argued and evaluated in this country) to support the claims of widespread and election changing voter fraud, the truth is painfully obvious. If you choose not to accept this reality, then you are joining with others who have chosen to detach themselves from reality. That is not an ad hominen attack, but rather a statement that sincerely describes behavior that people are choosing to take.

  20. Michael says:

    “The Pillow Guy, as you derisively refer to him, publicly professes the name of Christ. ”

    That’s the problem.

    A really big problem.

    He claims Christ while spreading lies and staging bizarre rallies to prove his point…and ends up embarrassing himself and the name of Christ.

    Every mechanism baked into this countries laws and policies have been engaged to determine whether that election was valid…and they have all affirmed that it was.

    The result of perpetuating the big lie that it wasn’t has split churches and communities for no reason other than the ego of the defeated candidate.

    Spiritually it is sin…socially, it may cost us the country we had.

    I counted the cost before I asked Kevin to speak here…but in my opinion, he’s speaking truth to us that must be heard.

    There was a day when I took on a bunch of big name preachers and got the same responses Kevin is getting…time has proved the righteousness of my cause and my words…so it will be with Kevin and those brethren who stand against this idolatry and dishonesty.

  21. Donner says:

    It’s one thing for Jesus to call out sinners, and another thing for us sinners to call out sinners. Our “calling out” is tainted with self righteousness. I don’t see where Jesus used derision in his righteous calling out. And how do you know that these election ALLEGATIONS are lies? Have you examined the evidence from all angles?Or is this simply taking on one side’s talking points and broadcasting them? That is the flavor of the post and that is what I dispute and what I am calling out. And yes, I knew it would be a risk to address this. And I’m all for calling out evil, and telling it like it is. Remember that I come from the Bob Coy/Tullian Tchividjian wars, where I called out Tullian for his arrogant unrepentance on these pages and I took flak for it before “time proved the righteousness of my cause and my words” (remember MLDisciple attacking me?). I’m not defending “election lies” or necessarily taking positions on that subject. I advocate for thoughtful, logical analysis and where necessary, accountability, and not indiscriminate mudslinging. I think (Hope) you do, too, and I’m only asking for that to be demonstrated in the posts.

  22. Donner says:

    One final thought: It has never been shown in a court of law (to my knowledge) that the claims of so-called election deniers were invalid. Never. Why? Because the legal system prevented the cases from even coming to court. The evidence was not permitted to be presented. That is not the same thing as having a case put forth, judged on its merits and found invalid.

  23. Kevin H says:

    “It’s one thing for Jesus to call out sinners”

    You conveniently ignored the examples of the OT prophets and the Apostle Paul doing the same. Additionally, if you cannot see that calling people a brood of vipers is just as “derisive” or whatever term you want to use, is just as, if not even harsher, than anything I have said here, then you are purposefully ignoring reality on another point.

    “And how do you know that these election ALLEGATIONS are lies?”

    I’ll quote Michael on this one – “Every mechanism baked into this countries laws and policies have been engaged to determine whether that election was valid…and they have all affirmed that it was.”

    In order to try to determine what is true or not, we must use tools and mechanisms, reason and rationale and evidence, to evaluate truth claims. Our country’s resources in these regards were exhausted in evaluating these claims of a stolen election, and they all came to the conclusion that they were not true.

    “It has never been shown in a court of law (to my knowledge) that the claims of so-called election deniers were invalid.”

    In court case after court case after court case, in state after state after state, the claims of a stolen or illegal or invalid election were rejected. That is why the “election-deniers” lost every case. Every single case. How in the world can you say their claims were never shown to be invalid in a court of law? Heck, three of Trump’s former lawyers just pled guilty in the Georgia election interference case of having made false claims in regards to allegations of a stolen election.

    “Because the legal system prevented the cases from even coming to court. The evidence was not permitted to be presented.”

    And that is one of the biggest lies and deceptions that has been told throughout this whole ordeal. Many times the election deniers didn’t present evidence in a court of law because they knew they had none that would stand up in a court of law. Other times it was presented in hearings prior to an official case and it would almost always be summarily dismissed because it did not meet the criteria of what actual evidence is supposed to be in a court of law. Please read this article from the politically conservative organization, The National Review, which details one of these court cases where the judge explicitly gave the “election deniers” the opportunity to provide evidence to support their case and they just wouldn’t: http://www.nationalreview.com/2020/12/a-stunning-passage-from-the-latest-court-rejection-of-team-trump

    After this, I will not continue to further adjudicate the case of why claims of a stolen election have proven to be lies. The overwhelming evidence is out there for anyone chooses to use any measure of objectivity to evaluate the claims.

    “I advocate for thoughtful, logical analysis and where necessary, accountability, and not indiscriminate mudslinging. I think (Hope) you do, too, and I’m only asking for that to be demonstrated in the posts.”

    That is always my aim, even as my execution may not be perfect. However, in this case, I believe your political predispositions are making it difficult for you to see that I have actually done what you have asked.

  24. Michael says:

    “After this, I will not continue to further adjudicate the case of why claims of a stolen election have proven to be lies. ”

    No need to do so…the facts are straightforward.

    https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2103619118

    I would ask those who are upset over all this to consider the damage done to Christian witness over denying the documented facts because they differ from political hopes.

  25. donner says:

    Thanks for your reply, Kevin. I will check out the link. I strive not to have political predispositions, as I implied in my post referencing my veteran status in catching flak. I am an equal-opportunity questioner. I question election deniers, and I question election supporters, BOTH camps of which have harmed the body of Christ by their strident insistence on extreme positions.

  26. donner says:

    Michael, in the last three years or so I have completely abandoned political hope in this government, to my everlasting joy.

  27. Michael says:

    I’ll just say this and be done with it.

    The idolatrous support of Donald J. Trump by Christians has been as damaging to the catholic church in this country as much as the continued support of spiritual abusers.

    There is no lie big enough, no foul pronouncement rancid enough for them to speak the truth about what this man has wrought.

    I will.

    The big lie about the election has left our democracy on the brink of collapse…reminding me that Christ said if He did not return the deception would be so great even the elect would be deceived.

    Deception will be the tool that brings all things to the ordained end…

  28. bob1 says:

    “Facts are our friends.”
    “Unafraid, ” by Adam Hamilton

    Truth appears 230+ times in Scripture.

  29. Dan from Georgia says:

    The hardest part in all this for me is that some/many Christians will NOT be convinced otherwise, no matter what you show them (logic, facts, etc). Sad that it’s this way. Even more sad that we lose people here because we don’t toe that line of “stolen election” here.

  30. Dave says:

    ‘Don’t get me started on the cults of comic book and fairy tale theology.’

    B-B-But …everything I needed to know about theology came from amazingly informative Chick tracts: (translated into 100+ languages… and special
    ethno-centric ‘urban dialect’ editions, too!)

    Select nuggets of wisdom:

    1. Never sign a rock music recording contract with talent agent; Lew Siffer.
    2. Demonic laughter is readily identified by: “HAW – HAWW!”
    3. Halloween & Heavy metal music produce ‘rock-a-holic’ zombies.
    4. Evil originates in Rome.

  31. Dan from Georgia says:

    Dave,

    At one time I thought I was going to convert our college’s biology teacher by placing a Chick Tract under his door. I had those for a while before I found out how ridiculous they were. Entertaining, but ridiculous. I might have saved a few tracts for entertainment purposes only. I did find the “haw haw haw” thing rather bizarre. Fast forward to the pre-Koolaid era of the Babylon Bee…they did a satire of what happens when you burn a bunch of rock albums…a demon rises from the smoke…it was funnier than how I describe it.

  32. Michael says:

    Dan,

    I think I missed your birthday by a day…happy birthday , my friend and a happy Thanksgiving to you and yours…

  33. Dan from Georgia says:

    Well thank you Michael! Appreciate the kind words! You have a blessed and happy Thanksgiving as well! I am thankful for you, the folks here, and this website!

  34. Thankful says:

    When I read and hear people point the finger at those who are “deceived” I wonder who really are the “deceived?”

    “Certainly not me! I have done my homework and due diligence,” said both sides as they go to war.

  35. Dave says:

    Dan,
    ‘At one time I thought I was going to convert our college’s biology teacher by placing a Chick Tract under his door…’

    The more refined Chick tracts featuring high quality artwork, had a captivating pulp-tabloid visual presence to them …reminiscent of one’s inability to detach their gaze from a slow-motion train wreck.

    Yeah, I too allowed ‘youthful believer zeal’ to compel me into some embarrassing ‘evangelism’ misadventures I’d rather forget.

    Confrontational ambush-style street witnessing with a ‘turn-or-burn’ ultimatum …must have soured many people toward anything church related.

  36. Muff Potter says:

    Here’s the real deal.
    Trump and those who adore him (many fundagelicals too) Do Not want a Democracy.
    Plain and simple.

  37. Thankful says:

    “As usual, the fickle, unreasoning world took Muff Potter to its bosom and fondled him as lavishly as it had abused him before. But that sort of conduct is to the world’s credit; therefore it is not well to find fault with it.”
    The Adventures of Tom Sawyer

  38. Michael says:

    Thankful,

    I agree with Muff. The man tried to overturn our democracy once…that’s not the unreasoning world, that’s a fact.

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