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73 Responses

  1. London says:

    Oh boy.

  2. Fly on a Wall says:

    Testing… can I comment?

    I just wrote about 100 word comment and *click* it is gone to the cyber black hole.


  3. Fly on a Wall says:

    Couldn’t have happened to a nicer church…. hahahaha.

    “I have written on these pages before that upon Smiths departure that the remaining movement would fracture…it’s already happening.”

    I felt God telling me the same thing in prayer too, actually, I predict worse than just splintering. And I don’t gloat about this, I think it’s a sad day. CC was an exemplary church at one time.

    “His greatest power comes from his ability to manipulate the ambition of young men who think one day they’ll be as wealthy and powerful as him, even though those young men are now in their fifties and sixties”

    There. Fixed it for you. Everyone who has attended a CC for a number of years knows this is true. But no one admits it.

  4. Fly on a Wall says:

    There’s no recourse, imo. I know you just blog this stuff for the naive sheep, but I doubt there’s many of those left.

    CCCM has evolved into this. People need to open their eyes and see that it’s no longer the church it was in the 80’s and 90’s.

    And it evolved into this because of the Moses model. People knew it was happening, but no one spoke up (or if they did, they were effectively silenced). Now it’s gone too far, there’s no recourse, we can blog blog blog all day, they don’t care. The system doesn’t need us.

    The sad thing is, God has no need for a church that doesn’t need us.

    People should’ve listened years ago, but they didn’t. They didn’t want to ruin this great thing they had going. Now it’s time to reap. People who put in their trust in Papa Chuck instead of God are going to get burned. Did anyone outside of the family really think they would be the heir-apparent? Obviously they don’t know Chuck Smith that well.

  5. London says:

    Just when you thought it was safe to get back in the water…..

  6. brian says:

    A few observations and these are just my opinion of a public figure hopefully this will forgo any potential lawsuit issues, which I do not fault because the work and thus have to be of God and should be used as a first resort to stop decent. Of course, I don’t believe that but I am an apostate.
    Back in my rebel without a clue days Chuck Smith was a big cheese with in the Youth Industry as a go-getter, spit in the eye of the established order of the Christian corporation in America. He franchised his product brand with great efficiency and banked on it in some ways literally, which should be applauded as the industry standard. . I will never fault anyone for doing that, it is the way, not to be confused with “The Way”, but that is a different post. I will admit I am jealous of Mr. Smith. He will leave money for his family and a way to make more of it he will be remembered with distinction by most. The many disagreements and the thousands tossed under the bus will evaporate into obscurity, which will happen, it has to.

    “His greatest power comes from his ability to use the emotional attachments that young men without fathers developed with him, even though those young men are now in their fifties and sixties.
    He uses the threat of rejection to quash any disagreement….and it has worked with clock like efficiency through the years.
    Another technique he has mastered over the years, is to let all sides of a conflict believe they have his imprimatur and watch them fight it out as he does what he pleases.”

    This should be totally applauded it is a masterful use of resources and leverages a person’s own personal weakness to keep them in line. This cuts down on HR costs and it is a very effective management tool. Of course the liberal effeminate corporate leadership of other industries avoid these types of strategies. I get lost in the confusion. But Mr. Smith seems to have held to the prime directive of the Industry, not the Trinity, the Death of Jesus, His Resurrection and other secondaries. It is Pragmatism, stark cold efficient effective pragmatism. I wont leave much of a foot print when I leave this life, if I leave any. He will leave huge footprints, unfortunately some of those footprints will be on the backs of many other people. Which is irrelevant but just a thought.

  7. Fly on a Wall says:

    London: Michael and I are just speaking about things that everyone who regularly attends CC already knows. You can’t listen to Broderson, Laurie, and Coy without it reminding you of three children battling for the Playstation. CCCM has lost credibility a long time ago, and other CC’s are just following their footsteps.

    Needs? Let them contact the Assistant Pastor. I’ve got a trip to Jerusalem to plan.

    Ministries? How about more fundraisers and concerts, that’s good to bring more people in.

    Corrupt behavior? Oh… it’s not my business anyways. Besides, when the dove is there, I get 20% more people! People = tithes. Tithes = me being in business another year.

    Messages? Oh, I’m a natural attention whore, I’ll still do those. But I don’t want to offend anyone. Remember, more people = more tithes.

    Opposition? Complaints? Let them talk to my bulldog… I mean, er, my board of Elders. They know what to do.

  8. Fly on a Wall says:

    “He will leave huge footprints, unfortunately some of those footprints will be on the backs of many other people. Which is irrelevant but just a thought.”

    hahahahaha. So funny because it’s so true.

  9. Ixtlan says:

    Rather insightful brian. Humility has been sacrificed on many different altars. Perhaps the most dangerous one is efficiency.

  10. Fly on a Wall says:

    “This follows on the heels of an email blast sent out to all the senior pastors informing them that if they criticize the movement on blogs they can basically get out and stay out.”

    Is this why we haven’t heard from Steve Wright lately?

    That’s too bad. Actually, I did enjoy his comments although we butted heads frequently.

  11. brian says:

    Something happened a few hours ago that really touched me. I have worked with the homeless most of my “Christian life”. It was a huge aspect of the “ministry” I was involved in. I tried so hard but failed in many aspects, most likely becoming emotionally attached was by far the vilest sin I committed. After having the spiritual crap kicked out of me for some 25 or so years doing this when I finally gave up. It effected me, I became “judgmental” to the homeless. Now I was accosted by several “panhandlers” one could even call it assault. It marked me, though I would give them food, money, jackets, sleeping bags, water bottles, etc. I held this anger in my heart. I often would mutter when they said God bless me, “Why would He bother” and other such nonsense.

    Well this older man was in a blanket near the 7-11 and the redbox video, I pulled in and then backed out because I did not want to deal with it. I slithered into another parking spot and walked up into the machine put my videos in and watched as the older man was talking to some young women about gas millage on her car and she kindly said thank you and she went on her way. She was very kind to him. Well I went back to my car and pulled out two water bottles and walked up to him and said do you want some water. He looked up at me in a way some of my students do when I help them and they did not ask. It made me shudder, as ridiculous as this sounds and it is completely ridiculous it still made me shudder. We will forgo me discussing my many pathetic emotional weaknesses at this point.

    I asked this man if he wanted a cup of coffee and he just looked up at me and said yes. I went and got him one, with cream and sugar etc. He looked like he just checked into the ritz and said thank you and “God bless you”. I drove away berating myself at my weakness and refusing to let God bless me I was evil I cant do good anytime any where and so on. But a little sliver of hope lurked in my heart. It was really a hope-filled encounter. God works with little steps, sometimes very little steps. I find that one of the best proofs of God.

  12. perhaps it is acceptable – i think it is – for a man of the cloth to write a best seller and see the profits as belonging to himself, his to steward as God leads or for that man of the cloth to take a free trip to Jerusalem; BUT **profiting** financially from shepherding a flock? … Judas was keeper of the purse, he attached himself to Jesus anticipating wealth and power

    praying there will be soul searching before God for wisdom on this serious matter … on all sides

  13. John Duncan says:

    I’m one who felt the power of his rejection and wrath But I don’t agree it is a developed rut technique he developed I think it just happened through a series of events that I won’t go into. I hope everyone here knows I have no affinity toward cc as a movement. But with Chuck it’s just more complex I was there and saw with my eyes soon 1970 – 2008
    So while I agree with the problem I just don’t agree how we got here

  14. Alex says:

    Michael, get a life! You have a giant bee in your bonnet and you are in greater sin for unforgiveness and not just letting it go and giving it to God 🙂

  15. Alex says:

    Tax law really needs to change. “Non-profit” status is abused so much in the church. Claw back those millions, they weren’t supposed to make one Family super rich.

  16. I find articles like this quite comical and sad at the same time.

    1.) Whoever the “insider” is who passes on these in house emails to Michael – why doesn’t that person leave, start up their own fellowship / association of churches and show the world how to do it right.

    For those who complain and threaten to leave the movement – why have they not done so? And … show everyone the right way to do it.

    This is the exact same complaint that I have with the SCCL crowd – why doesn’t one of the belly achers over there start up a Christian church and show all of us how it is done right?

    No action on the part of either group – they wallow in being discontent and love just bitching and moaning – and not a one will move off of that mark.

  17. Michael says:

    I will be at work all day and mostly unable to follow this thread.
    I can be reached as always at

  18. Michael says:

    You have a point.
    In defense of some, there was a transition in place that’s being short circuited.
    On the other hand, this is a situation that seems to me to be in great need of a Luther…who took his concerns public and debated them publicly.

    Off to work…

  19. papiaslogia says:

    Thanks for this article and bringing the issues to the forefront.

    CC Pastors have the same choice as CC attendees – Either change the org from the inside, or get out and start another work. Neither choice is without pain and heartache.

    “This follows on the heels of an email blast sent out to all the senior pastors informing them that if they criticize the movement on blogs they can basically get out and stay out.” I would like to see this email blast published. Doing so may open some eyes to the way the org tries to control “groupthink”.

  20. covered says:

    Thank you Michael, this post is spot on. I am friends with a few 20+ year guys and they seem to be unwilling to admit that “papa Chuck” isn’t who they thought he was. I love the idea of leaving the tribe and starting something new because if God is in it, it will be fine.

    MLD’s #16 has much insight.

    After getting hosed by Chuck and the “movement”, we started a new work and immediately a weight was lifted and we never regretted it. God has blessed it and my CC Pastor friends have been there watching the whole way. One of my CC pastor friends is an off site Board Member/Consultant and another one comes as a guest speaker when I am away and I know that they feel betrayed by Chuck and others but as you say, they won’t admit it.

  21. Reuben says:

    I had a short interaction with a disciple of Gino Geraci not to long ago. I relayed an article about corruption in the movement. The response was that the article was a hatchet job. The disciple is a life long police officer. One that I worked with when I was in the gaming industry. This is a person who is paid to seek truth and justice. But when even seekers of truth would deny evidence surrounding CC, we see that a transition has taken place in the hearts of the church.

    I have said it before, I will say it again. Christ is no longer the head of the church, front-men are. The idolatry is so thick, it is a shame to even be subjected to viewing it.

    Here is the catch. ODMs speak of a great deception. Scripture does as well. What I have found is that those who worship at the feet of the front-man do not even realize they are doing it. They have regard for mere men that is so wrong, but they are incapable of seeing the deception.

    Look at Calvary Chapel Aurora. Thousands of people. Ed cannot do wrong. If you speak truth about wrongs to idolaters of the great Ed, you are shunned.

    If this does not reveal idolatry, I have no idea what would.

    Nothing will change. It will get worse. The new gods are in town, and Biblical illiterate pigeons fill the pews. They coo, they tithe, they swoon, they die in willful ignorance.

    If there is to be a reformation of the Church today, it has to be the total ctrl-alt-del of our understanding of the Body of Christ, and reformatted with a basic code that dictates that Christ is the head of the Church, and Christ grows the Church.

  22. Scott says:

    Blood runs thicker than water. There’s nothing new under the sun. I don’t bother myself with these things anymore. They are cyclical and will continue to transpire until the end of the age when the Lord himself will divide the sheep from the goats.

  23. Matthew 15:13-14 – perhaps is applicable?

  24. Nonnie says:

    Matthew 16:18 I will take Jesus at His word. I have seen far more love, reconciliation, peace, joy,mercy, forgiveness, and healing in the church than all the junk that is being talked about. I know there is a lot of cr*%p going on, but “the church” has not been overcome by the powers of hell. Jesus is on the throne and He is doing marvellous things through His people.

  25. Nonnie says:

    I am referring to the “church” universal….not any particular denomination or non-denomination.

  26. ( |o )====::: says:

    Having had my coffee, a healthy lunch and the joy of freedom from being one of ChuckSr’s “sheep”, I’m telling anyone who will listen, simply cling to Jesus, love others be they believers or non, and be about creating things of value, spiritual or not.

    George Harrison said it so well, so profoundly…

    Sunrise doesn’t last all morning
    A cloudburst doesn’t last all day
    Seems my love is up and has left you with no warning
    Its not always going to be this grey

    All things must pass
    All things must pass away

    Sunset doesn’t last all evening
    A mind can blow those clouds away
    After all this, my love is up and must be leaving
    Its not always going to be this grey

    All things must pass
    All things must pass away
    All things must pass
    None of lifes strings can last
    So, I must be on my way
    And face another day

    Now the darkness only stays the night-time
    In the morning it will fade away
    Daylight is good at arriving at the right time
    Its not always going to be this grey

    All things must pass
    All things must pass away
    All things must pass
    All things must pass away


  27. John says:

    Many cc have already left

  28. Fly on a Wall says:

    As a ex CCCM sheep (baaa) all I can say is it’s not that easy to uproot and go somewhere else. As a career Christian, you most likely knew someone, served for free in some capacity, made a lot of connections, then with another Head Pastor’s blessing, you took some of the other sheep and started your own ministry/church. So, already, 50% or more of your congregation is steeped in CC mentality. You don’t get far at CC criticizing the mother ship.

    The only way out of this is if you have a big following that you started yourself. Then CC wants to team up with you (Raul Ries comes to mind). But that’s rare.

    If you do uproot, you have to make sure your core group agree with you and that’s a much harder proposition. As I’ve mentioned numerous times, the little dove is powerful, I think only people who attended CC for years understand how powerful it is. You have to give it to Chuck, he did create one hell of a brand (no pun intended). I’ve seen other groups splinter then fizzle off. CC has thousands of people coming and leaving, but here’s the catch, they’re constantly coming. It’s like Mcdonalds, lets say you’re stuck in Boonieville, Nowhere, where’s the first place you go? McDonalds and Starbucks. People like the familiar. And to CC’s credit, I think they are the most doctrinally sound of all the churches I’ve attended.

    I agree with Michael, it’s now in the hands of the congregation to become better informed and to ask for changes. But honestly, I don’t see it happening. CC does not equal Burger King, you can’t have it your way. So the only other option is to get rid of it, start anew. I already see this happening.

    So why do we post? I don’t know why Michael posts. I post because God puts it in my heart. Actually it’s more like he takes a sledgehammer to my temples and it doesn’t stop till I post. Do I think any good will come out of it? Yes. Because at the heart of Jesus, it’s not a business. He cares about the people being abused. He has compassion. And I think people find compassion when they read these blogs and realize they are not alone.

  29. ( |o )====::: says:

    Been there, Exedrin Migrane works wonders for that sledgehammer thing. Then there’s always Peter Gabriel…

    I post to get things out of my mind and into dialog within the community, oftentimes it’s quite comforting to know just how much we’re all not alone in our discoveries and churnings.

    The mind control and groupthink within CC is nefarious. Dare to question and “you’re in the flesh, brother (sister)”, and that familial epithet is a controlling threat when uttered in that context.

    It’s only when one steps away, let’s the sound of whichever CCSrPastor dissipate and rediscovers the suppressed sound of ones own thoughts and questions, and independently formed answers that real engagement with God can begin anew.

  30. Fly on a Wall says:

    G: haha.

    Actually, God (or brain chemicals, whatever you want to believe) brings to the memory abuses that happened within my CC. And I feel my RAGE button being pushed over and over again. I’m not joking.

    Michael, what were you doing around 7pm PST? Were you writing this article? I was passively watching the Thunder blow out the Grizzlies, without a care in the world. Then I start thinking about things that happened over a decade ago! Why am I thinking this? God, what are you trying to tell me?

    I knew I had to check Michael’s blog before I went to bed. Voila! Look at the article I find.

    God works through broken people.

  31. j2theperson says:

    Now we know how Chuck defines “Ending well”.

  32. Scott says:

    Only 31 responses by 16 different people today on an article like this?

    That should tell you something about how fatigued folks are regarding this subject.

  33. Scott says:

    In fact, I’m wrong…

    That’s 31 responses by 16 different people since last night.

  34. fiddlestix says:

    In fact you are wrong Scott…

  35. No dog in this fight, but I agree with MLD’s #16.
    Chuck Smith is not the pope and CC isn’t the catholic church. Even if it was, Martin Luther did not let that stop him with a much harder situation than than here in America. Take Martin Luther’s example and take reform in your own hands CC.

  36. j2theperson says:

    ***That should tell you something about how fatigued folks are regarding this subject.***

    For myself, I wouldn’t call it fatigue but rather complete and utter contempt. I find the entire CC beast to be utterly contemptible and ridiculous from Chuck to the abusive pastors to the “good guys” to all of the blind uncaring ignorant people in the pews. They’re so bad or evil or petty or ridiculous and I have so many more interesting and rewarding things going on that I don’t feel like doing more than a couple posts expressing my disdain for their utter hypocrisy and general worthlessness as so called ambassadors for Christ. How many ways and times can you point out their stupidity and evil before you get bored?

    Not fatigue. Contempt and boredom.

  37. Scott says:

    Okay, I amend my #32 to include those who have contempt and disdain which leads to boredom at the thought of all things CS & CC.

  38. Alex says:

    I think J2P said some good stuff.

    I also think part of the dynamic of muted response on here is the Group Dynamics has shifted in the last couple of years and the ‘rules’ have changed. Many have watched how i’ve been treated for responding vigorously and thoroughly on CC threads (or even non-CC threads) and it has sent a bit of a chill in the air regarding how excited to get about this topic.

    I think it’s part fatigue, part what J2P said and a lot of shift in ‘rules’ and a fear of being treated like I’ve been at times. Most of the CC folks who’ve been hurt in the last two years congregate on my blog and avoid the discussions over here for that reason. If they felt the subject was safe, there’d probably be 200 comments.

  39. Scott says:

    Okay then, I amend my #37 to now include how the Group Dynamics has shifted in the last couple of years and how the ‘rules’ have changed here.

  40. n o m a n s says:

    Scoot is very adaptable tonight! 🙂

  41. Scott says:

    Okay, I now amend my #39 to include I’m very adaptable tonight!

  42. erunner says:

    Alex, Painting yourself as some sort of victim here doesn’t cut it. I’ll leave it at that.

    I’ve been active on this blog for a long time and the blog is nothing like it used to be. It has gone in a different direction and as a result the CC emphasis is long gone. I’m at the point I’m willing to see what the future holds for the movement and those involved. Fatigue may best describe where I’m at.

  43. Fly on a Wall says:

    Alex, if you posted this on your blog, I agree, at least 200 comments.

    But you’d have to get a copy of the email to do that.

    So, what to do? Do we ignore the CC situation because it’s not causing any change? Do we look on at the impending train wreck? Do we keep blogging?

    I have no idea. Maybe someone can give me one.

  44. Lol Scott!
    You know, Michael is right unless the pew sitters get fed up and demand change nothing will happen in CC. 200 comments on a blog would not be effective unless backed by action from masses.
    Scott include “masses yearning to be free” or something of that nature.

  45. 200 posts?
    Time to hit up Reddit for some cat pic links to repost.

  46. victorious says:

    Although the transfer of assets is a corrupt practice; it may be a blessing in that those who wish to follow and trust the Lord will not be tempted or encumbered by them, while the others fight over them . If Jesus wants to re- distribute them, He can unravel any corporate collusions.

  47. n o m a n s says:

    Sometimes when we see something that acts like a machine, we expect it to blow up like a machine when it is spent. Sometimes when something is spent it just becomes irrelevant and fades into oblivion. I believe there are some who don’t only wish for the demise of Calvary Chapel, but wouldn’t be satisfied unless it died a excruciating, explosive, painful death.

  48. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    I left Calvary in 2010 and I never felt more blessed and fed spiritually my whole life simce I left that organization. When a certain Calvary pastor could sign for a 5.5 million dollar loan to improve an already more than suitable building and then put the burden om the sheep to give more $ you know the guy has his Pimpology down pat.

  49. Asked about how he felt about Calvary Chapel, he declined to make a statement because Honeybadger don’t care…

  50. Misty,
    Thanks. I’m like a broken clock, right twice a day, if I’m lucky.

    These days, I’m learning a lot from Honeybadger.
    …better than Honey Boo Boo

  51. Anne says:

    I lurked here probably close to a year while I was still at CCCM. Back when the CSN debacle was in full swing. It may have saved my life. Definitely helped me understand – eventually- that I wasn’t crazy, just in a crazy making situation.

    “Another technique he has mastered over the years, is to let all sides of a conflict believe they have his imprimatur and watch them fight it out as he does what he pleases.” Sharing my office area with most of the assistant pastors, saw this being played on them and by them. Being at CCCM during the CSN, Flores, Sabolick, the auditions of 3 mega pastors hoping to be heir apparents, the father/son holy rift and much more that just was SOP, was a crazy time.

    I often hope folks who are experiencing the cognitive and emotional dissonance resulting in seeing the man (men) behind the curtain live very differently off the the pulpit find as much healing and hope somewhere as I did here.

    Contempt, fatigue and boredom was something I witnessed among assistant pastors who dreaded having prayer duty up front after services and rotation for counseling. “Don’t folks get it. If they just did what we told them during sermons and studies – read, pray & trust more- they wouldn’t have to be bugging us”.

    After 6+ years, like Fly, I still have my share of sleepless nights and heavy heart than I would like. Wish like hell I was less affected, stronger, more spiritual, whatever. It is what it is.

  52. London says:

    What happened to linkathon this week?

  53. Scott says:

    Ahhhh, got love the diversity. nomans thinks I’m adaptable, Misty thinks I’m an arrogant tool.

  54. n o m a n s says:

    Misty. Less vitriol?

  55. pstrmike says:

    something to think through…..

  56. Misty says:

    Well, one always knows what to expect here on pxp.

    And G, I gotta admit that I don’t know what a Honey Badger or Honey Boo Boo is. Care to clue me in?

  57. Scott, I think highly of you – I think you are a power tool 🙂

  58. “He has facilitated the transfer of the Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa Corporation (and it’s massive assets)… to his son Jeff, not to Brian Broderson…”

    So why is giving the money to Broderson a more moral choice than giving it to Jeff??

    This is the problem with Michael’s reporting on this topic – I will bet that if the money had been transferred to BB, it would read the same. I doubt we would see tha placement in an article “Pastor Chuck did the right thing today by placing control of CCCM Copr and it’s massive funds into the hands of BB and not his son Jeff.”

  59. Fly on a Wall says:

    Wow. Thanks Anne. Thanks to everyone who shares positive stuff. I was wondering today why I even need to post on here (the questions I was asking in #43 were more directed to God than PxP) but I’m glad there’s agreement in the body, therefore we are seeing things in the right direction.

  60. Misty,
    HoneyBadger, hmmm, how can I describe this meme in PG terms?

    Ok, ok, imagine Marlin Perkins Wild Kingdom, narrated by the most over the top guy with attitude, describing the honey badger, an animal with ultimate attitude, one of the few animals without the fear genes we all possess.

    And then there’s Honey Boo Boo, well, words escape me!

  61. Fly on a Wall says:

    MLD: Broderson has been with Calvary Chapel many many years (just as Laurie and Coy). He’s been with CCCM as long as I can remember. Does anyone know what he did before? It’s a bit of atrocity (but not really, I’ll get to that later) that it title and assets do not get passed down to someone who has devoted their lives to CCCM and is interwoven into most of the daily going-ons. The only time I heard of Jeff was in a lawsuit (is he a lawyer?) when CCCM was suing another CC for radio rights. He is not an active Pastor at CCCM. I don’t even think he’s a pastor.

    TBH: I’m bit surprised it didn’t go to Broderson, as he’s married to Cheryl Smith Broderson, Chuck’s wife. So he’s family. But not blood.

    The whole thing is sad because I’d say for at least the past 5 years, maybe more, the carrot has been dangling in front of a lot of pastors. It’s no secret there’s a lot of private wars going on at CC right now, everyone vying for the crown. But to give it to Jeff is just a big slap in so many big CC Pastor’s face. Jeff who???

    I kinda feel bad that they’ve been played. But I’m not because of their recent behavior. The fight for the crown (or should I say ring, the one to rule them all) has been nothing short of a circus (and yes, this includes Heizig).

  62. Fly on a Wall says:

    Cheryl Broderson is Chuck’s DAUGHTER. Not wife.

  63. Alex says:

    Reuben used the term “idolaters” above…I think THAT is a huge factor in the dysfunction which is CC and much of the Evangelical celebrity-driven cult-of-personality church.

  64. Well, I for one think Scott’s professional transformation over the years is to be commended. He is a man willing to do whatever to support his family.

    I think Scott’s profession is much more noble than being a weapons supplier to mass murderers..Don’t you?

    At least Scott is not continuously posting shirtless pictures of himself on Facebook and other venues.

  65. FLY,
    Yes, like Brodersen isn’t the ultimate insider. LOL – He can keep the pulpit, does he need the assets also?

    I don’t care who takes over, but it just sounds funny to hear you and Michael advocating that it’s not good enough to just be a called pastor to a congregation as an employee – but that the pastor must also be the owner operator.

  66. Alex says:

    …and, nice try MLD, I won’t be posting a shirtless pic on the Chuck Smith thread 😉

    This will also by my last comment on this thread for today, so have at it.

  67. Fly on a Wall says:

    MLD: you’re missing the point. By NOT giving it to a CC Pastor and an Elder Board, it means the church’s has been passed down to a biological heir. Who did what? That’s right. Nothing.

    Really doesn’t make much sense. At least passing it to Broderson gives the facade that church and it’s assets belong to the CC Community (since we are the ones that ultimately finance it).

    The outrage is it confirms what we knew all along. CCCM belongs to Chuck. Poppycocks to everyone else! He can do what he wants with it. If Jeff wants to get rid of the church and build an amusement park on the property, it is his legal right to do so. This is called nepotism. Nepotism is universally hated by Americans.

    Of course to the little man, who cares? We already knew this. We don’t have a share in the plunder. We are the ones being plundered.

    It’s more a big middle finger to Chuck’s faithful underlings who thought they’d get a lion’s share after Chuck died.

    But don’t feel too bad for them. They can go back to their respective mega churches and cry in their plush offices and have their staff listen to their babble. I’m sure their hefty severence/retirement pay will take the edge off.

  68. Mark says:

    More nonsense from someone who has no affiliation with CC and repeats unfounded gossip. as far as asset transfer since when is it anybody’s business who a man transfers his wealth to upon death. Which, by the way- why wouldn’t a man transfer his wealth to his blood son ahead of his son-in-law? If that is truly the case. But I guess Michael is now in the business of reporting on people’s private will and testaments. This is despicable that someone would devote blog space to this topic. Michael has been gleefully reporting the “impending” crackup of CC for at least 5 years now- with not a shred of evidence that it is happening. He always rants about the “expungement” of those not following the “distinctives”-why should someone want to be a CC of they do not believe the distinctives? Michael should be ashamed of himself for publishing this gossip and the rest of you for going along with him like mindless lemmings

  69. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    Everyone in this situation gets what they deserve, Chucky Smith gets exposed for false Idol that he is and his underlings get left out of the pot of Gold at the end of the rainbow. Those men have mistakenly worshipped the ground Chuck has walked on and now they get a reality check. Many of these Calvary clergy are lovers of money and lord their authority over the sheep . Hard to really shed tears for them.

  70. rick says:

    Let Me Get Home Before Dark
    A poem by Robertson McQuilkin

    It’s sundown, Lord. The shadows of my life stretch back into the dimness of the years long spent. I fear not death, for that grim foe betrays himself at last, thrusting me forever into life: life with You, unsoiled and free. But I do fear. I fear the dark specter may come too soon – or do I mean too late? I fear that before I finish I might stain Your honor, shame Your name, grieve Your loving heart. Few, they tell me, finish well. Lord, let me get home before dark.

    Will my life show the darkness of a spirit grown mean and small, fruit shriveled on the vine, bitter to the taste of my companions, a burden to be borne by those brave few who love me still? No. Lord, let the fruit grow lush and sweet, a joy to all who taste, a spirit-sign of God at work, stronger, fuller. Brighter at the end. Lord, let me get home before dark.

    Will it be the darkness of tattered gifts, rust locked, half-spent, or ill-spent, a life that once was used of God now set aside? Grief for glories gone or fretting for a task God never gave? Mourning in the hollow chambers of memory, gazing on the faded banners of victories long gone? Cannot I run well until the end? Lord, let me get home before dark.

    The outer me decays – I do not fret or ask reprieve. The ebbing strength but weans me from mother earth and grows me up for heaven. I do not cling to shadows cast by mortality. I do not patch the scaffold lent to build the real, eternal me. I do not clutch about me my cocoon, vainly struggling to hold hostage a free spirit pressing to be born.

    But will I reach the gate in lingering pain – body distorted, grotesque? Or will it be mild wandering untethered among light phantasies or grim terrors? Of Your grace, Father, I humbly ask… let me get home before dark.

  71. Fly,
    1st – I have been checking around some (something you may wish to do) and I see no transfer of any CCCM assets from their previous location to another. So, I think that is in the realm of speculation, rumor and gossip.

    2nd – transfer to Brodersen is not nepotism? – If you owned a business who are you passing it down to – strangers?

    3nd – ownership at CCCM should not be a surprise to anyone who has sat in the pews for any length of time.

    4th – I think 100% of the people who attend CC are quite satisfied – why do you want to kick them because of your discontent? You do realize that there is a reason Baskin Robbins sells 31 flavors… or do you.

    5th – the rat who passes information to Michael, if he is still an active CC person, is guilty of the exact thing he criticizes. He is afraid to give up his job for moral principles – in my world he is called a weenie.

  72. Michael says:


    The president of the corporation controls the assets.
    Upon the death of the president the vice president is in control.
    This process overrules any input from the board or the people who actually gave the money.
    Your 4th point is probably correct and I’m remembering again that this is more trouble than it’s worth.

  73. Anon says:

    Looks to me like Erunner went off the topic of this thread back in #42 and derailed things. The thread is about Chuck Smith.

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