The Gospel and the Catholic Church by A.M. Ramsey: An Appreciation and Discussion
This is Part 1 of a discussion we posted a while back… we’ll repost all three parts to further recent discussions…
The Gospel and the Catholic Church by A.M. Ramsey:
An Appreciation and Discussion
Michael Newnham and Duane W.H. Arnold
+Michael Ramsey, the 100th Archbishop of Canterbury, remains a towering figure in Anglicanism, even though a great deal of his theological vision has been set aside by adherents of that tradition in recent years. Much of that theological vision was articulated in his first book, âThe Gospel and the Catholic Churchâ. Published in 1936, when Ramsey was sub-warden of Lincoln Theological College, the book centers the Church, liturgy, worship, tradition, and ecumenical relationships in the Incarnation of Christ. He also addresses evangelical and catholic expressions of the faith and likewise finds them reconciled in the Incarnation.
It is a book that calls for careful reading and reflection. Even so, it is a book that I unfailingly recommend to those interested in, or new to, Anglicanism. I find various peopleâs reactions to the book are telling. For instance, I suggested the book to a very new Anglican (out of an evangelical holiness tradition) who had been ordained in a new Anglican body with very little education, preparation or training. When I later asked him what he thought about it, he replied, âOh yeah, itâs all about being a via mediaâŠâ I immediately realized that in all probability he never actually bothered to read the book. On the other hand, I gave it to my friend Michael Newnham and received a much different reaction. Now, as some of you may know, Michael began his journey as an evangelical and made his way to the Reformed tradition, eventually encountering J.I. Packer as an Anglican representative of that theological school. A few weeks after recommending the book to him, I asked Michael what he thought of it. After a moment of silence, he said, âIâm not sure, but it has turned my world upside downâŠâ
Over the next few weeks, weâre going to have a conversation in order to explore that theological world that has been turned âupside downâ.
Duane: Michael, letâs start off with the obvious. What do you mean when you say that Ramseyâs book turned your theological world upside down?
Michael: A little background first⊠I was deeply steeped in two thingsâŠthe Reformed tradition and (what I perceived to be) an inordinate amount of personal suffering. Everything was read through those rather powerful filters. Ramsey presented a theology that was neither Reformed nor Arminian, but truly biblical and especially sacramental and Incarnational. I did not know how to read what I was reading, nor how to properly parse it with my available filters. Ramsey parsed it for me with this; âHere then is a complete setting forth of the meaning of the Church; the eternal love of Father and Son is uttered in the Christâs self-negation unto death, to the end that men may make it their own and be made one. The unity, in a word, means death. The death to the self qua self, first in Christ and then in the disciples, is the ground and essence of the Church.â
 If you begin there, the journey of faith looks radically different than it does within a systematic theology. My journey would begin to look radically different after internalizing this one truth.
That, though, was just the beginning.
Duane: For me, the genius of Ramsey was that he recognized that everything in Church life and doctrine is, in some manner, an extension of the Incarnation. More than that, the whole of the Incarnation, from the Annunciation to the Resurrection and beyond is a singular manifestation of Godâs glory. When I was an evangelical in my theology, I tended to view âChrist among usâ as a series of events – Birth, Miracles, Sermon on the Mount, Death, Resurrection, Ascension – all different singular events. In this scheme of things, it was the Cross that was preeminent. What was important was to have a proper theological understanding of what took place when Christ died on the Cross. Along with much of Western theology, the Resurrection, Ascension and all the rest were almost afterthoughts. As I read Ramsey, I began to realize that it was all of a whole. From Christ âthe lamb slain before the foundations of the worldâ to Bethlehem, to Golgotha, to the empty tomb, to the Ascension, to the Church, to the Sacraments, to the Parousia⊠they are all aspects and extensions of the Incarnation. All are expressions of the singular glory of God manifested in Christ. This view owes much to Eastern Christianity, but Ramsey skillfully integrates the best of East and West in this book.
Now, I remember you relating to me that one afternoon you were reading Ramsey at the skateboard park. You told me that there came a moment when you set down the book and you said to yourself, âI donât know anything. I have to start over again.â With all of your learning and study, what compelled you to have this reaction?
Michael: It was the realization that all those years of study had left me without a robust theology of the Incarnation, which is like trying to balance a house on the ground without a foundation. I couldnât just add a theology of the Incarnation to what I already knewâŠthe structure had to be rebuilt from the ground up. That is the process Iâm in right nowâŠand the construction is ongoingâŠ
Duane: And, I might add, that rebuilding not only provides a different way of approaching theology, it also causes us to see the very nature of the Church and the Sacraments, especially the Eucharist, in a different light. Itâs not just getting the facts or history right, itâs understanding what they signify. As Ramsey wrote, âHistory and fact have their significance in what lies beyond them. Like the Incarnation itself, the Eucharist is the breaking into history of something eternal, beyond history, inapprehensible in terms of history aloneâ.
I Will repost the following two parts later today…
I am looking forward to the discussion, especially because I love Stott, Packer, and CS https://cslewismovie.com/ I just watched this. Quite good!
This is great..thanks so much for sharing this.
Eric
The next two parts fill it out a bit…
Duane
Can’t tell you how “excited” I am about this… just ordered the book.
Eric,
Bishop Michael was a mentor and a friend, so I am prejudiced… but this book is one of his best.
Michael and Duane,
This is good stuff.
The only thing I ever heard during my time in fundagelicalism, was a lot of anti-Catholic bigotry.
All couched of course, in ‘what the Bible teaches’.
Muff,
I’m glad you’re enjoying it…this was a very important book in my development.
I am reading this discussion with much interest and contemplation. It is easy to read and move on to the next thing. The new keywords to effective communication are short and engaging. The question is has anything really happened after interacting with that which is deemed short and engaging? All this to say that I donât like the social preconditioning against most anything that might take more than a few minutes, more often seconds, of your time. In the end I think it produces an overall culture of reactionaries. There are no real demands placed upon the attention to analyze or contemplate. I mean most of the time it requires no meaningful interaction to speak of.
This series of conversations is not like at all. It is actually refreshing to have to pause and ask oneself if you understand the gravity of what you are reading. Now I have not been feeling well as my liver has been acting up which makes it hard to focus. Today was a much better day. So I am going to shoot some thoughts from the hip, so to speak. So please be gracious with any unclassified, or unqualified, thought, for that matter.
It is interesting that you, Duane, mention the Incarnation as a series of events especially in the Evangelical mind. While I want to say I disagree unfortunately even my own understanding of the life of Christ is fragmented. I don’t I intended it to be this or did I make a conscious decision to do so rather it is the by product of being overwhelmed by everything once converted. The least of these is not the not so uncommon practice of Evangelical anti-intellectualism. What I mean is that it often has a thin, almost non-existent, veneer to it. Upon conversion there is an immediate emphasis placed on immersion into a variety of activities particular to that church’s culture. There is an endless buffet of events to partake in or serve at. For me it was the later.
While these Evangelical institutions would categorically deny a works or attendance based salvation they are two critical rubrics for measuring the seriousness of your commitment. Preference always seems to be given to those who serve at least in the affirmation of their commitment, but that is another spin around the proverbial merry go round. The point is you most people are too busy attending or serving while being feed a steady diet of sugar induced sermonic cereals. Most of of it is a learned behavior from those in leadership who are too busy attending or doing that they themselves have a fragmented understanding. After all if nothing is happening we might grieve the Holy Spirit with even a momentary stagnation.
I always used to joke that I was going to make a t-shirt that said under construction with an arrow pointing up. I have always that the journey of faith is a progressive one in which it seems to be like driving on I-70 into Indianapolis- always delayed by construction. However, I have come to realize that construction delays are actually the real opportunities for growth in the spiritual life. This does not mean that it is not frustrating at first or when the detour is several years in process. It is in the detours that you experience unknown parts of the city, take in different sceneries, and some times meet new people who help you see the world, even of faith, through a unique or nuanced perspective.
This site has been that to me during this particularly aggressive phase of construction in which it seems that all but a couple pieces of architectural salvage will be saved as much of what once stood is being razed to the ground. Maybe I should say that the foundation will be saved as it was discovered it can support a much larger and expressive edifice than the original one that was erected in haste.
Thanks for phase one.
Keep on brothers.
Please ignore my first post and the many editorial errors.
Part 1
I am reading this discussion with much interest and contemplation. It is easy to read and move on to the next thing. The new keywords to effective communication are short and engaging. The question is has anything really happened after interacting with that which is deemed short and engaging? All this to say that I donât like the social preconditioning against most anything that might take more than a few minutes, more often seconds, of your time. In the end I think it produces an overall culture of reactionaries. There are no real demands placed upon the attention to analyze or contemplate. I mean most of the time it requires no meaningful interaction to speak of.
This series of conversations is not like at all. It is actually refreshing to have to pause and ask oneself if you understand the gravity of what you are reading. Now I have not been feeling well as my liver has been acting up which makes it hard to focus. Today was a much better day. So I am going to shoot some thoughts from the hip, so to speak. So please be gracious with any unclassified, or unqualified, thought, for that matter.
It is interesting that you, Duane, mention the Incarnation as a series of events especially in the Evangelical mind. While I want to say I disagree unfortunately even my own understanding of the life of Christ is fragmented. I don’t I intended it to be this way or did I make a conscious decision to do. I think it was/is the by product of being overwhelmed by everything once converted. The least of these is not, the not so uncommon practice, of Evangelical anti-intellectualism. What I mean is that it often has a thin, almost non-existent, veneer to it. Upon conversion there is an immediate emphasis placed on immersion into a variety of activities particular to that church’s culture. There is an endless buffet of events to partake in or serve at. For me it was the later.
While these Evangelical churches would categorically deny a works or attendance based salvation they are two critical rubrics for measuring the seriousness of your commitment. Preference always seems to be given to those who serve, at least in the affirmation of their commitment, but that is another spin around the proverbial merry go round. The point is most people are too busy attending or serving while being fed a steady diet of sugar induced sermonic cereals. Most of it is a learned behavior from those in leadership who are too busy attending or doing that they themselves have a fragmented understanding. After all, if nothing is happening we might grieve the Holy Spirit with even a momentary stagnation.
I always used to joke that I was going to make a t-shirt that said under construction with an arrow pointing up. I have always believed that the journey of faith is a progressive one. I guess this has been intuitive from the inception. To me it seems to be like driving on I-70 into Indianapolis- always delayed by construction. However, I have come to realize that construction delays are actually the real opportunities for growth in the spiritual life. This does not mean that it is not frustrating at first or when the detour is several years in process. It is in the detours that you experience unknown parts of the city, take in different sceneries, and some times meet new people who help you see the world, even of faith, through a unique or nuanced perspective.
This site has been that to me during this particularly aggressive phase of construction in which it seems that all but a couple pieces of architectural salvage will be saved as much of what once stood is being razed to the ground. Maybe I should say that the foundation will be saved as it was discovered it can support a much larger and expressive edifice than the original one that was erected in haste.
Keep on brothers.
Shawn,
Thank you for taking the time to write well and clearly on this matter…it serves well as an addendum to what Duane and I posted.
I too had built a very workable faith edifice that truly served me well for years.
Indeed, it gave me a foundation and confidence to stretch out and truly listen to other ideas and theologies.
I have kept what was good and true…and add as I go with new understandings.
My only regret is that I won’t have enough years to complete the structure…but Jesus will…
“My only regret is that I wonât have enough years to complete the structureâŠbut Jesus will⊔
Amen! I will cling to Jesus completing the good work He started even when evidence might point elsewhere for a short time. At first it was really nerve racking rebuilding from near scratch. I have all but given up on teaching and preaching for a number of reasons including I have many regrets over my poorly developed theology and exposition of the Scriptures.
Also, I take the words of James 3:1 and 1 Corinthian 13 very seriously. It may be well the reason that my nearly complete life work on 1 Corinthians 13 will most likely remain unpublished, even self-published. On a positive note though I will say I often get excited about my reconstructive faith. In it there is a sense of wonderment and awe again.
Also thanks for the encouragement it is always nice to met fellow travelers down on the same road.