Things I Think
1. In an somewhat unexpected development, the book I’ve been trying to compose for a couple of years came gushing forth from my soul last week. I hope to have the initial chapters and the book proposal in my long suffering agents hands by the end of the week. Writing the book has created both a release of a great deal of pain and the need to relive it as it’s released.
It’s a bit like throwing up after you’ve drank too much…not that anyone here would identify with such an analogy. I forgot what a long, dark road I’ve been on for a very long time.
2. It is an undeniable fact that the faith of the realm is free market religion. The question is whether free market religion is the faith once delivered to the saints.
3. I have an even clearer understanding now of why people are leaving evangelicalism for more ancient expressions of Christianity such as Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and even Lutheranism.There is a stability and surety in traveling ancient paths not lit with neon…
4. Remember when churches taught the doctrine of “separation”?
5. I had to laugh because I’m bad that way…I got an email blast from C. Peter Wagner and his wife detailing all the physical woes they are afflicted by and how it took a long time for the doctors to diagnose the cause of one of Peters ailments. These are the folks who do healing services and train prophets…
6. I believe the New Year starts on opening day of baseball season…
7. Whilst pondering the doctrine of separation last night, I caught the new “Daredevil” series on Netflix…it’s intense. Maybe a little too intense for me, but really well done.
8. My boy turned 13 last week…and I grow more and more concerned about how I’ve stewarded what God has given me. My hope comes from the fact that he still says “I love you” at least once a day…
9. No matter how badly I get beat up during the week, I get refreshed and restored by the love of our local church. I wish everyone could testify to the same experience…
10. Writing the book and reliving all the stuff that has happened over the last dozen years or so has also made me somewhat nostalgic about all those who have travelled with me here on the blog. When did you start reading? How did you discover this place?
First.
My 16 year old son still says “I love you” to me, and his mother. All one can do is raise them the best we can.
“It’s a bit like throwing up after you’ve drank too much…not that anyone here would identify with such an analogy.”
There may be a few on here who can understand what this is all about – maybe not in recent times, but surely at some point in life!
Hahahahah Your analogy in #1 made me totally laugh out loud….even though I’ve never ‘done that”…… I concur that thinking deeply about ‘what happened’ in my own story actually causes a PTSD type reaction. We have spoken of this.
#5…not sure I would laugh, but I would rejoice in the faithfulness of God to interject reality into the lives of those who live in a fantasy distortion, abusing the Word.
#8. Sweet…..
#9. My church experience the last few years has been the opposite. No matter how great my Mon-Sat was, Sunday would beat the crap out of me and I’d wonder if I was still saved. Not going to that church anymore.
Lastly, #10…. been here since Fall of 2006 or 7, I think…. Did a Google search looking for another former CC pastor’s wife that I’d lost contact with… Her ex was a ‘featured subject’ here, and miraculously, my friend just happened to be reading that story… I’ve made some amazing new friends here. I guess the PhxP IS my church….. Thank YOU!
I started reading PP in Spring of 2006. I had just finished back to back bad experiences at CC churches and was trying to convince a friend to stay away from attending a CC when another friend asked me if I had ever read the PP blog.
PS…. In time, I guess you will likely feel better after ralphing that complicated mess out. Congratulations on The Book…. at last!
No. 8 Your boy is 13! When I read that, I remembered the time you posted about him starting Kindergarten! So I guess I’ve been around at least that long.
My kids, grand kids, and I end every phone conversation with “I love you” (they are in their 30’s now)
hi family, hi big brother (((hugs))))
My husband made me read it ‘cuz we were having trouble with our own CC. (the one we attend -no memberships there) been here off and on ever since. come to enjoy and love the company of many here and have had the honor of meeting many in person.
I was originally pointed here by my Pastor (and now I am the pastor of the church he started), 2005ish. He thought it would be good for me to see some of the flaws of Calvary. I have always found the voice of disagreement to be one of the more helpful in evaluating my own views. I was not really welcomed initially in fact my first comment was simply a Bible verse I liked and I made to be a villain (mainly because I was a Calvary guy) – but eventually Michael stepped in and defended me. I am sure I have hurt a few peoples feelings along the way, something I regret and have tried to apologize for when it was brought to my attention. Ultimately I will always be an outsider as long as I am still a Calvary Pastor, and I can live that. I read more now then I comment, it is better for my stress level, but I am still here.
Be blessed all.
Hi, Dusty!
It’s been a blessing that we have had so many stay so long and form relationships on and offline.
One of the highlights of PP was the annual Efest that many attended. I was at 3, one at a restaurant and the other 2 hosted by Oden Fong. Those were great times! It allowed me and others to put names to faces. MLD, is really a pretty nice guy in person! Maybe Erunner cna be inspired to put together another one.
Still praying for you almost daily Big Brother. Sister Christian does too.
Great thinking Michael. I look at PP because the pastor of the CC I was attending pointed out that there’s a blog is much like the anti-christ. He shared that the guy that runs the blog hates CC and therefore, I need to stay away from this place! I couldn’t wait to see what the hoopla was about and have been a lurker and occasional poster.
Interesting how the truth is that this blog isn’t anti Calvary, it’s anti abuse with a desire to learn and teach. Alex’s blog is also anti abuse yet it’s more hated by CC’ers than PP.
I once asked a couple of pastor’s (one from Texas and one from OK), where they get their information on what’s going on with CC and their mothership and without hesitating they both said “PP & Calvary Abuse”. Interesting how this works out. Reminds me of a dog returning to it’s own vomit 🙂
Bob, I have often wondered how that would work now getting the regulars from this blog together. I wonder if MLD is really a midget with a cheap toupe? I’m sorry… that was uncalled for 🙂
Dusty, thank you…I’m convinced and have been for years that this is what sustains me…
Covered…..You just made me laugh out loud. I’m still laughing. I can hardly type.
1 – the book… can i suggest that everyone who comes here and believes in Michael and his dedication to a website that has blessed us all, pray? at the risk of sounding like a fundy, this is serious spiritual warfare that Michael is waging and he needs prayer both for his protection and the project… i was late in learning that when a pastor – a good one – crashed and burned and i hadn’t prayed hard for the man, part of the condemnation was mine and those like me, who’d watched, maybe given advice, but hadn’t taken prayer cover seriously.
pray for Michael, his family and the book
Em,
Thank you!
I will say that since it come flooding out there have certainly been some issues…
I started reading the blog during the Fall of 2013. A friend from within the CC community forwarded me a link to this blog.
As much as I was sometimes saddened by reading some the problems covered on the blog, I have been more encouraged by many of the articles especially the ones regarding pastoral accountability at the local church level. In my neck of the woods we have had a long history of moral failures and church splits within the Spanish speaking community due to abuse of authority and or adultery by rogue lead shepherds.
It was actually Michael and our brother Steve Wright who encouraged me put to accountability measures in place for me and the elders of our local Spanish speaking fellowship. I was also encouraged by the written accountability plan that Steve implemented at the local fellowship he pastors and that is also available for all to see on his church’s website. I thought the document was well written and so it translated it into Spanish, modified it slightly and put it in place at our fellowship as well. I also shared the need for accountability with other Spanish speaking pastor friends in this community. Although some of them aren’t interested because they are already part of a denomination(covering) with formal hierarchies and procedures , a few others who lead independent fellowships are now praying about putting written accountability plans in place in their local fellowships. Some of these men have also experienced the pain and sorrow brought to the body of Christ from divisions or by moral failures (scandals) that could have been prevented or at least dealt with in an orderly Christ exalting way. Although we may not like what happens at other churches we can always first take a look at ourselves and our ministries and do something about ourselves.
Lastly although I hold to dispensational theology , I’ve been blessed by learning from other men of other traditions whether reformed or Arminian on this blog. Before I came to this blog I would have shunned those who didn’t share in my views, but now I’m blessed that I can engage and learn from them, and if we ever disagree on certain things, we can do it charitably.
Peace
Francisco…good stuff!
#1- YAY!
#10- I found PP mid-late 2006 (I think). I had left a church that I was a part of for ten years, and went through a period of church shopping. I would guess that I googled CC (where I spent 7 yrs) and found PP.
thirteen…may the fun commence! Adolescence is a period of unending zaniness.
CPW’s extended diagnosis…interesting how one’s beliefs aren’t always borne out by life experience. On the one hand, that underscores and promotes faith. On the other, perhaps reflection and reconsideration is in order.
I’m not sure, but I think 2006 is when I began lurking then spoke up after a couple weeks. A friend who was disgusted with the local CC suggested the site, but I don’t think he ever posted here. I eventually attended that CC and briefly served on staff part-time before getting swept out in a purge. The controversy over “The Shack” initiated my early comments here.
Wow. I started lurking here in 2005 while still on staff at the mothership after googling CC critics/reviews, trying to make sense of the madness I was witnessing. It was a relief to know I wasn’t just crazy and that others were troubled by the same things I was becoming aware of. I started posting as “Grieved”. Amazing how time has flown. My grandsons were 4 & 6 and are now solidly in their teens too. I have had the privilege of meeting several PP peeps in person – at an efest in SoCal, during my explorations into Orthlandia and while living in PDX.
Looking forward to your book, Michael. Though it may be causing you many labor pains, I know that because it is ultimately a labor of love, it will be worthwhile!
#9. I agree
#5
So someone has to be healthy to pray for others to get healed?
Someone has to “know fully” to prophesy?
Do we have to grasp an issue we preach on fully (ie everything on “grace”) before we preach on the subject?
Do we have to be completely or substantially free of a particular sin before we preach on it?
Do we have to have our personal finances in order to teach budgeting to our people?
If I have a gift of teaching, can’t I just walk into an atheist convention and convert everyone?
#1 Glad you got that out, good for you and interesting read I’m sure.
#8 I’m sure as a caring parent you care for him the very best of your abilities, and pray for the rest every day.
# Referred from a coworker. Some around 2008, steady lurker since 2011.
10 – i found the Phoenix Preacher when i was looking for something in Arizona – can’t remember what now… i found something misleading and i sent Michael an Email telling him so… he replied via Email with a blistering attack on my ignorant judgmentalism as i recall – i was, of course, correct – IMV – but that did pique my curiosity and i stayed around to see what was going on… i don’t know the year… i could find it as i save Emails 😎 (not all of them)
i have enjoyed visits to Xenia’s garden and Sarah’s Small Rain for respite, but only Michael Newnham and his war have managed to worm their way into my life… God keep all the good people that are drawn here and bring repentance before judgement comes on the “bad” folk who come by 🙂
Em,
I’m glad you ignored my rebuke and stayed… 🙂
JTK,
I believe these new “apostles” “prophets” and “healers” are nothing more than spouts of unholy horse bleep.
God still speaks.
God still heals.
He does so in every local body and in many other ways.
I don’t believe it’s being done by these clowns.
AA,
Thanks for chiming in… it’s amazing to me how long some folks have tolerated me. 🙂
Michael,
I figured as much.
I found my way here when a certain surfer/preacher came to town, handed out a lengthy question-and-answer pamphlet on CCABQ letterhead that said he was in no way associated with CCABQ and wasn’t coming back. He came back to CABQ 4 days later and has been here ever since.
I think I am one of Michael’s first blog members. I was with him on his Yahoo list (I think it was) and came over when he converted to the blog.
At the time, I was looking for people who I could join to criticize Calvary Chapel.
I think Papias has been here just as long.
Oh- I forgot to say, I want to thank Michael for letting me talk pretty much endlessly on his dime. 🙂
10- I stumbled on PhP only a couple of years ago, so I’m a relative newbie. I don’t remember the reason, but it was probably something to do with the Calvary Chapel movement. (I spent about 15 years in two different CCs here in SoCal.) I’ve stayed around PhP for the great topics and comments.
1- I’m so glad your finally getting to the Church Abuse book. It is hard to write about unpleasant stuff, but someone has to. CS Lewis had a real struggle writing Screwtape Letters, but it has ministered to many over the decades since. Your book can do likewise.
#26 – didn’t ignore it, Michael – but i’m a fair to middling judge of honesty – coming here was like walking into a field hospital
#27 – speaking of horse bleep… i’ve spending a lot of time around it (the real stuff) the last couple years and it really isn’t that obnoxious… i’ll take it over dog bleep any day 😆
I came over during the Heitzig/OH debacle. I lady at work asked if I knew who he was and why he left Albuquerque, so I googled it and found this blog. I’ve also pretty much been a long term lurker (usually all the fun stuff happens when I’m at work and by the time I have something to add, someone else has already said it).
I miss the Efest’s also, I got to go to two of them.
Go Ducks (I’d normally add, ‘Go Penguins’, but I’m not sure they deserve to be in the playoffs this year, so I’ll stick with the Ducks… Sorry Michael)!!!
I guess I have hung around since 2006
The doctrine of separation is pretty much old covenant
Free market religion may or may not be the true faith
As likely not
Write
Found the blog about 8 years ago…I know because I remember Trey was starting school.
After much abuse at a CC it made me feel less crazy, and there were many ears here to listen.
I was grateful for that…Don’t have the free time I used to so I check in periodically to see what’s going on.
Was glad there was a place to come to at the time to share my pain.
I remember feeling very isolated.
(I used to used to use another name)
?,
A lot of us did. I reinvented myself here as well, it was necessary for many reasons.
I used to be “Severe Mercy” here but I decided to use my real name for accountability, which I eventually shorted to just plain Xenia.
-Xenia Moos
Hello. I discovered PhP almost exactly one year ago, when I googled “Bob Coy.” Got enough info here to stay sane for about a week after the scandal broke. Then Pastor Chet Lowe told the truth from the pulpit, saying God will not be mocked. Michael posted that sermon and remarked that his site traffic abated drastically after someone from CCFTL finally came clean about what Bob had done. Michael was right and I’ve followed the blog ever since. I’ve posted a few times. I even have the T-shirt that reads, “I’ve been blistered by Michael at PhP and lived to tell about it.” :).
Xenia
Had no idea that was your name.
I remember the Bunny. (I think)
Ixtlan 🙂
Hi Michael! 🙂
I found your blog around 2008 after leaving CC Ft Lauderdale. I mostly lurk and have enjoyed your articles over the years – I’ve learned much here…thank you. It was this blog that help me heal and move on in my spiritual walk.
Happy Birthday to Trey. Tell me he’s not 13 – that can’t be! Makes me feel extra old. 😉
September 2006, after reading the LA Times article “Father, Son and Holy Rift”
I used to get up in the morning and read what the “night crew” had been up to, talk about culture shock. LOL.
Michael, great to hear about the book! I really think you’re the one who is supposed to write it and I think you found the right direction…and that is evidenced by it coming out of you like a rushing waterfall. When it comes out of a writer in that manner…it means you’ve found the right direction. I think you are uniquely gifted as well as uniquely positioned to deliver that message. I look forward to it.
I discovered the blog when I was referred to you by Tim, I think. I think he found you and then you read about my story on the topix forum and then we emailed each other and I ended on here and you told our story. Then I dominated the place and you and everyone else wanted me to start my own blog partly so I wouldn’t dominate yours 🙂
I will give credit where credit is due…you and the blog have taught me a lot and helped me find my voice and you have given me hope where there was none to be had and I am still barely in the Christian Tent and not an Atheist in large part because of your positive influence (as well as the blogs).
Lots of great folks here, even when we disagree.
Covered re: MLD…ROTFLOL!!!!! Hilarious.
Francisco…you are a really good dude…I appreciate your patient and kind input over the last couple of years and look forward to meeting you in person.
Shaun, that was honest and realistic. I wish you’d ditch the “Affiliation” but besides that, you are a solid dude IMO. Heck, even though I don’t really care for Steve W., I have to admit he does some very solid things at his CC franchise as Francisco accurately notes and he certainly isn’t getting rich from his franchise and has done some remarkable things in that regard that are not normal in a good way.
Despite what my adversary says, when someone really breaks down the tough walls I have in place (largely out of survival mechanism)…I am as loyal as they come. I may be a major pain in the arse…but Michael won the battle with me and I’ll love him ’til he croaks and won’t ever be a problem for him again and will defend him to the death. He’s a good dude and a great pastor.
BTW, Rolph won that battle as well. He did something remarkable when the chips were down that I will forever respect him for. Show me don’t tell me…and in that regard both Rolph and Michael and some others have shown me “the good” in God and it is much appreciated and was very needed.
I found the PP in March of 2006 as I was just diminishing a 2 month transition from Ocean Hills to the Lutheran Church – I was doing Sundays with the Lutherans and teaching my classes at OH during the week.
Skip had said that, Pete Nelson had resigned – but he had not heard the resignation because he was preaching the 1st service at OH.
I went home, goggled around and found the PP. But I wasn’t upset with anything with Skip and CC and OH – but that was probably one of the reasons I was transitioning out, as that was probably just too typical of evangelical churches, especially of the independent types.
Me and erunner were the dissenting voices and I was kicked off after about 4 days, 🙂 but Michael eventually showed grace when I deserved no grace.
Lots of really good folks on here, I don’t mean to leave out many other great people who have made this a very unique and good blog over the years.
With that typical Alex flurry of posts…I will step aside and give up the mic 🙂
Love many of you, I really do.
correction – “I was just diminishing a 2 month transition ” – should read “I was just finishing a 2 month transition…”
I came to the PP one day BEFORE Bob Sweat! 🙂 Actually I was a participant on the discussion boards at CARM. At some point they created a category for CC and I was blown away that people were speaking against CC. In my eyes CC was the church of Philadelphia and everyone else fell somewhere below us.
One day someone linked here and that was the end of my time at CARM and the beginning of an important part of my life. For many months I was pretty much out of control going after Michael and the moderators every chance I got.
I alienated myself from everyone here for the most part and went so far as to ask Michael to ban me which he wouldn’t do. On a day of prayer here I decided to change my ways and slowly found my place.
I remember having huge issues with the night shift and now am friendly with those who remain and some who have gone.
What has the PP done for me? It has given me a thirst for the coming together of those in different denominations who name Christ as savior. I loathe the pettiness that has become so prevalent with the advent of the internet where I’ve seen everyone exposed for one thing or another.
I’ve met many who post and have posted here and those times have always been a joy.
One woman who used to moderate here I used to hammer pretty hard. Turns out a number of years ago when I was attending Oden’s church she showed up with Dusty and Sister Christian. When Dusty told me who she was I wanted to crawl under a chair! But she showed me nothing but love and a forgiving spirit.
If I can make the time maybe I’ll look to put together another E-Fest. They were always such a joy. And I count Michael as a close friend even though we have never met. He’s been a big influence in my life.
I came around in 2006 around the time of Skip-gate. Had recently had a pretty traumatic/eye-opening experience as a staff member at a Master’s Seminary influenced church. Not sure how I stumbled over here. Was a pretty faithful Michael Spencer/Boarshead Tavern enthusiast at the time. And a Pyromaniacs dissenter.
Like Erunner, I really appreciated the conversations that took place between people of differing backgrounds.
A PNW fest for PP peeps was talked about several times in the past. Something I looked forward to during my exile from behind the orange curtain 6+ years ago. Maybe it will take the form of a celebration when Michael’s book is finished! Maybe we could hold it at fil’s place 🙂
I’ve been reading you for a few years now. Not sure how I found you but it was surely a link at one of the many other blogs I read. I was intrigued that you call yourself the “Phoenix Preacher” since I live in Phoenix. I just had to find out where around the big city you live and where your church was so I could visit. To my disappointment, I found out that you are in a small city called Phoenix in Oregon. Maybe I’ll still get out your way for a visit. In the meantime, I get to enjoy following you through your blog.
#5
http://coursematerials.vision.edu/its/Lesson_23.pdf
Late to the party here as is it is now the next day. I discovered the PP in 2009 and first posted in 2010. I found it through a web search as I was concerned about the unhealthy overemphasis placed on the end times at my CC. I didn’t know much about Calvary Chapels besides my own, so I decided to do a search to learn more. Boy, did I learn more coming here. 🙂 But the learning has gone well beyond just Calvary Chapel and despite all the rough edges, I am very appreciative of this place.
I wasn’t sure how long ago it was that I first interacted with the PP – so I did a search of my email and found the first reference to be January, 2006.
I was embroiled in a story involving Chuck Smith’s son. In the emails about an article that appeared in the Dallas Morning News Dec. 10, 2005 about the CC founder & son. I sent information out about it and sent links to my husband, telling him:
“Your comments were put on that blog at:
http://phoenixpreacher.blogspot.com/”
So apparently at that time I already knew about “that blog” which I had been informed was made up of disgruntled Calvinists ousted from Calvary Chapel.
I too have rattled cages here. Sorry 🙁
If anyone plans a get-together, keep me in the loop. I’d love to meet some of you — especially Michael.
I found the blog back in 2005 around the time of the “Joe Sabolick scandal”.
What made me go out looking for information was when my CC pastor pulled me aside to share some juicy gossip about Joe, and I wanted to find out more information. So in a way, my old CC pastor opened the door for me to find out more about what was wrong in his church, which I left sometime in 2006.
What really made me see the systemic issues with CC was when I heard the same stories from people all over the place. At first, I just thought that perhaps I was being too over analytical or judgemental (what have you). But hearing others tell stories that were all too familiar to me was eye opening.
Then when Chuck Smith mentioned that Mike Kestler “has a problem with the ladies” – that was a gut punch. I had always expected Chuck to model what he preached, but to hear him acknowledge Kestler, but to stay in business with him – that was it.
Its like finding an apple tree that has bad roots. Most of the fruit will be bad – not all of it – but good fruit is the exception, and not the rule.
We will be visiting So. Cal. sometime this summer, and we’d love to attend an Efest, if at all possible. If anyone feesl “inspired” to plan one, please let us know. We will be booking tickets to So. Cal. soon and right now have fairly flexible dates.
Nonnie, that would be amazing.
Agreed that the Phoenix Preacher helped me to understand that lovers of Christ come from many parts of the Church. I’ve gotten a broader “big C church” understanding a love for brethren across many denominations. This became a place of refuge for me over the years, and I’ve made many friends that I cherish. I started interacting here around 2006 as well and continue to check in and enjoy Michael’s writings and the interactions.
E, if you or someone else in So. Cal. do organize an E-Fest, I am really going to try to come and meet many of you, hopefully including Nonnie and her husband 🙂
I honestly cannot remember if I was here before 2006 or just caught on when Albuquerque CC had their second coming. I forget… seems the latter.
Hard to believe we are 9 years into the return.
I do remember 1000 comment threads… intense days… it kept my attention
I showed up in 2008 when the Lakeland thing was tearing my church apart. This place was definitely a safe shelter for me in those days.
Fun to read through the comments today. I have been mostly without a computer for almost a month, and I am terrible at typing anything lengthy on my phone, so I have not participated in hardly any dialogues online!
I believe I came here back in 2006 and was more able to participate before our homeschool venture began three years ago. Thankful to still come by and read and catch up…always wish I had more time. Especially to hang out on the prayer thread!