Greg Laurie Has Coronavirus

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108 Responses

  1. bob1 says:

    Sad. His pain and suffering could have been prevented/avoided.

  2. filbertz says:

    trusting the God of all mercy to do what He does best.

  3. Mz says:

    Skips church said not positive, read Franklin tested negative.

  4. Em says:

    Joining in the prayers for Laurie

  5. Xenia says:

    May the Lord have mercy on all the afflicted.

  6. Jean says:

    “I will be leaving the great Walter Reed Medical Center today at 6:30 P.M. Feeling really good! Don’t be afraid of Covid. Don’t let it dominate your life. We have developed, under the Trump Administration, some really great drugs & knowledge. I feel better than I did 20 years ago!”

    There, that settles it. He runs the country and analyzes diseases based on his own experience. Why not? His experience is the only thing that counts.

    So, I don’t think we need to pray for his diseased followers, since, it will make them feel the best they’ve felt in 20 years. And please, Trump followers, don’t be afraid of the virus; don’t let it dominate your life.

    Even though Remdesivir and dexamethasone were developed before he became president, if he says his administration developed them, then it must be so. Because Trump doesn’t lie.

    Now that he feels better, the young gals in the WH better take note.

  7. Anon says:

    2000+ signers already.

  8. bob1 says:

    Anyone wanna bet on how long it will take for one of Trump’s evangelical court to proclaim that “He has risen”? 🙂

  9. Jean says:


    The person I feel the worst for in this who event is Dr Sean Conley. If you watched his press briefing on Saturday morning, you could tell that he is not a trained liar. It came off painful and totally unbelievable. He trashed his reputation by lying out his ass for what? I feel bad for him.

  10. bob1 says:



    I also feel sorry for all the folks in close proximity to Trump — in the hospital, in the SUV, the helicopters and at the WH. I don’t care if many of these folks are sworn to whatever. They’re
    human beings before anything else.

    What a reckless excuse of a president.

  11. Em says:

    Quit pickin on Trump…..
    Did the doctor lie? I doubt it….
    The drugs mentioned saved my daughter’s BILs life back in February. . He came very close to dying – intubated, delirious etc., But there are other treatments being researched by some xlnt scientists now and i’m guessing some were being pumped into Trump there at Walter Reed…
    Keep praying as God directs us to do, cuz Trump isnt in the clear yet and, if Biden got elected, id move to Greenland… err somewhere
    God keeo

  12. Jean says:


    When you move to Greenland, may I ask you to take the Proud Boys, Trump’s “spiritual advisors” and Trump’s kids with you? Much appreciated.


  13. Em says:

    Sorry, Jean….. Seriously doubt if your rejects would follow me… 😁
    You really think Biden is Presidential? ? ?

  14. Xenia says:

    Greenland sounds dreamy…

  15. bob1 says:

    Be sure to bring your long johns! 🙂

  16. filbertz says:

    Jean, you’ve evidently checked your compassion at the door. Your tone and words on this thread are base, graceless, and tacky. You’ve expressed controversial ideas many times before with care and precision. When the seeds sown bear bad fruit is not the time to crow “I told you so!” despite the temporary satisfaction it provides–it’s really sowing your own seed that will perhaps come back to haunt you later. I comment thus as I’ve been the loudmouthed finger pointer many times here over the past decade plus. It never really served me well. Of late, I’ve come to the conclusion that change must begin within & manifest itself person by person to those I come in contact with. I’m embarrassed by many of the things I’ve said in this forum and offline too. I have been consistently one of Greg Laurie’s haters here & the sarcasm and bile I’ve stated was merely evidence that I had baggage to offload myself. It’s pointless to piss and moan about how messed up our country is if I’m not willing to model the change I wish to see.

  17. Eric says:

    In my state there are no new Covid cases most days, but we still are not allowed to have a large gathering with people sitting close together like that.

  18. Jean says:

    “Your tone and words on this thread are base, graceless, and tacky.”

    Perhaps those are my character flaws. When I have observed conscientious men and women, both at a national and local level, as well as neighbors, try and do their best to keep themselves and their neighbors safe – to protect life, liberty and livelihoods – only to be mocked and scoffed at by the President and the MAGA universe (Did you know they are now a universe?), am I tempted to feel some sense of glee and “told you so” when the President’s recklessness comes back on him and his supporters – who with access to science and expert advice, deny it by their actions?

    At different points during the pandemic, Trump blamed “blue” states for the pandemic death rates, while lobbying his supporters in blue states to pressure their governors to open up quicker. When he apologizes to those governors and the citizens of those states for misleading them on the seriousness of the pandemic, then I will feel more penitent myself about my reaction to him. Again, its my character flaw.

  19. filbertz says:

    Jean, i’m not trying to evaluate your character or personality–just saying I’ve heard you be much more diplomatic with the content/opinions you share. To a large extent, I share your frustration/outrage over the mixed messages and contrariness of Mr. T in the face of the pandemic. My hope is we of faith will seek a broader picture grounded in the principles of scripture that transform us first and provide a beacon to others secondly. Peace.

  20. Jean says:

    Thanks Filbertz. As a general principle, I agree with Michelle Obama’s advice of “When they go low, we go high.” Unfortunately, studies show that negative campaigning appears to be effective, and Mr. T is probably the best negative campaignor we’ve ever seen.

    Thus, I don’t know if he can be voted out using “go high” or diplomatic messaging or approaches. However, I try to be truthful in my undiplomatic messaging by fact checking my claims. That’s something that Mr. T fails miserably at.

    Politics is a temporal or left hand or worldly activity. Christians in America have a civic responsibility to participate in the process. Love of neighbor is the controlling ethic. My closest neighbors, my wife, my children, my community, need competent leadership during this pandemic and they need affordable health care options. The current president is on the record and at this very moment engaged in litigation against the ACA, by which 20+ million Americans receive health care insurance, and countless other millions have private or employer based plans which comply with the ACA mandates regarding pre-exisisting conditions, no life time maximums and provide access to dependent children to age 26. I can’t imagine voting for a man who would turn our country back from joining the first world nations of the world who consider medical care a basic human right.

  21. Michael says:

    “Christians in America have a civic responsibility to participate in the process. ”

    Where is that in scripture or tradition?

  22. Steve says:

    Jean, Filberts assessment is worthy of pause. I too have seen much more diplomatic posts from you. Consider if you may, that Trump is the most pro-life president we have ever had. It may not be on your radar and maybe trump is faking his concern for the unborn, but this issue more than any other is one that I would hope all Christians could agree on. It saddens me and confuses me that that is not the case.

  23. Michael says:

    “Consider if you may, that Trump is the most pro-life president we have ever had.”

    Unless you are a migrant or one of the working poor, or someone in need of health insurance.
    Forced sterilizations are evil..

  24. Mike E. says:

    Doesn’t Regeneron (the company which made the experimental drugs given to Trump, use embryonic stem cells in its research?

  25. Muff Potter says:

    While I wish the best for Laurie and that Providence grant him a speedy recovery, it is also my fervent hope that he and other fundagelicals will no longer be so eager to chuck “the wisdom of this world” out the window.

  26. Michael says:

    To steal a phrase I recently heard, the GOP is “pro fetus”.
    While this is admirable, being “pro life” is much more complicated…

  27. bob1 says:


    I have similar thoughts.

    I am not hopeful that these types will change.

  28. Jean says:

    Michael, your 10:05 am is brilliant. I hadn’t heard that before, but it fits perfectly.


    “Where is that in scripture or tradition?”

    “And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

  29. Steve says:

    I personally like the term anti-abortion. It gets right to the point without mincing words. And when Jean talks about loving your neighbor, I would encourage him to expand his definition of neighbor to include the unborn. Once you see the unborn as a person, perspective changes dramatically.

  30. Michael says:


    I consider the unborn as persons…and the born as persons too.
    Why don’t we care for all “persons”?

  31. Michael says:

    “And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

    All that says is that I can have as many cats as I want… 🙂

  32. Xenia says:

    I am sure Jean DOES see the unborn as persons. Good grief.

    The world is so complex and so full of evils that we cannot concentrate on every evil at once; our brains and hearts are not capable of this. Some have picked one evil to emphasize, some have chosen others. No need to cast aspersions on people who have chosen a different evil from you to concentrate on.

  33. Jean says:

    I speak for the protection of unborn life and teach my children the same. I don’t need a law to counsel my children to value unborn life. My wife and children do need laws to protect their access to medical care.

  34. Jean says:

    Thank you Xenia.

    Michael, I would vote for a cat for President over the encumbent. 🙂

  35. Xenia says:

    On this blog we continually lament the lack of civility among Christians yet we can’t seem to bring ourselves to think the best of others right here on the PhxP.

    We use demeaning terms as “apt” for Christian groups we disagree with.
    We tell people if they care about one issue, they must not care about others.
    We exaggerate about the other side’s positions, and exaggeration is a form of lying
    We ascribe bad motives to our brothers and sisters in Christ

    If we are serious about civility, we have to do better here, no matter who we are, or else drop the pretense that we care about civil discourse.

  36. Michael says:

    “No need to cast aspersions on people who have chosen a different evil from you to concentrate on.”
    My contention would be that if we majored in biblical ethics and the kingdom of God, all these evils would be odious.
    Our concentrations often have more to do with political preferences than holiness….

  37. Steve says:

    Jean,. I’m glad you speak on the protection of unborn life. I was honestly confused at your post at 8:18 about love of neighbor is your controlling ethic in the context of our civil duty to basically vote Mr. Trump out of office. So your wife and children need laws to give them healthcare, but does a fetus that survived a botched abortion, need any less?

  38. Xenia says:

    Our concentrations often have more to do with political preferences than holiness…<<<

    There ya go, casting aspersions on the motives of millions of Christians you don't even know.

  39. Michael says:

    “There ya go, casting aspersions on the motives of millions of Christians you don’t even know.”

    It’s an easily verifiable fact that many of the same folks who are anti abortion are also fine with kids in cages and the other terrors on the border.

    I’ve mentioned forced sterilizations here a number of times…not a peep of protest from anyone.
    If I said Planned Parenthood had done it, the rage would be palpable…

  40. Em says:

    Who is forcing sterilization on the folks at the border and why?
    Have to run, but will check back this afternoon.

    P.S. It always seemed rational to me to sterilixe th o se who opt for an abortion… dunno, though, do i……

  41. Em says:

    Yes. I know how to spell sterilize. . Teeny keyboard

  42. Xenia says:

    “If you don’t care as intensely about what I care about intensely, I can dismiss what you say.”

    Only so much room in the ol’ brain, Michael. I can only worry intensely about so many things at a time without losing my marbles. Of COURSE I object to forced sterilizations.

  43. Michael says:


    You accused me of casting aspersions on millions.
    I denied that because of easily documented facts…not a cursory dismissal of your accusation.
    You dismissed my rebuttal…which is basically what these discussions usually boil down to.

  44. Jean says:

    Here’s one thing I’ve noticed about these issues:

    One can vote against abortion; the vote doesn’t cost them a penny out of pocket; and it’s someone else who will have the law enforced against them.

    But when you cast a vote for universal heath care, Medicare, ACA, or Medicaid, you are saying that you are willing to fund he program even if it means you will have a higher tax, because you believe health care is a universal right.

    If you vote for children, who were brought here as infants, to have a path to citizenship, you are saying that you are willing to fund the program that gives them a hand up. Same with asylum seekers.

    I think if you can’t be pro life across the board, but only care about someone else’s unborn, it may betray the greedy route to claiming the moral high road.

  45. Xenia says:

    I don’t think we realize, and I include myself in this, that if we say OUR issue is the most important one and are dismissive of those who concentrate on a different issue, this is polarizing in and of itself.

    Why not say: God has given some people a heart (good old CC speak 🙂 ) to pray/work for the people on the border and God has given some people a heart for the unborn, or a concern for eroding morality. Why not say “God bless you” to everyone who is praying/working on a godly issues? Why can’t we all do this? Me included?

  46. Michael says:

    I’m getting irritated now, so I’ll boil this down.
    The problem here is trying to justify our choices politically by inferring that ours is a holier choice.
    Both political parties promote wickedness and neither are fit for anything but cursory Christian support.
    Voting for either is not a vote for a godly choice, it’s simply a reflection of which side causes the worst projectile vomiting in our homes.
    The church should speak to issues without regard to candidates or parties and only speak to those issues where Scripture and tradition speak.

  47. Xenia says:

    I think, in fairness to Michael, I’ll be posting my ideas for preparation for the Coming Chaos on my own blog; ideas for spiritual disciplines, stocking up, getting in shape, etc. It’s not right that I clutter up the blog, on Michael’s dime, with my own stuff. I’m not departing PhxP, I’m just easing up on certain topics and moving ’em to my own space, which is the advice Michael always gives to disruptive posters and I do not want to be a disruptive poster. I will talk about other things here. No worries.

  48. Xenia says:

    by inferring that ours is a holier choice.<<<

    Isn't that exactly what I've been saying?

  49. Michael says:


    I haven’t said or inferred that your postings are disrupting.
    The current political climate has disrupted everything…to the the point where this is no longer a “online community of faith” but just another place where division has destroyed community.
    I grieve this, but it was inevitable.

  50. Michael, I was heading towards disruption, I think. 🙂

    Anyway, it’s only right that I take my prepper stuff to my own blog. I’ll stay here and talk about other things, as usual.

    All’s well.

  51. Duane Arnold says:

    I recently read a piece that essentially said that the only two Christian approaches to our current situation are “fight” or “flight”. That is, we either choose a political side and fight our corner, or we take flight from the culture and prepare for the worst. I think that there is a third option and that is “life”, meaning that we live out a meaningful Christian life in the world, making our own ethical choices in line with being “in the world, but not of the world”. I know that it is an ethical and spiritual tightrope, but maybe that is what we are supposed to learn from the lives of people like Bonhoeffer and Romero. It calls for nuance, not bumperstickers…

  52. Michael says:


    Well said…I resist both urges until I’m so tired it doesn’t matter…

  53. Duane Arnold says:


    Bumpersticker slogans are easy… nuance will get you weary…

  54. Xenia says:

    One can use one’s retreat as a base to reach out to others.

  55. Duane Arnold says:


    I am a traditionalist. Since the time of Antony of the Desert, I believe that some are called to withdraw from society. Some of my dearest friends have felt called to that sort of separation. I do not feel that calling and, I might add, I believe that calling is an individual vocation and not in response to society or difficult circumstances. As Rumer Godden said, ‘In This House of Brede’, it is not running away from something, it is running to something. That being said, I think the majority of Christians are called to live out their lives of faith within the society of their day, being in the world, but not of the world. Christians have done this for centuries under all sorts of circumstances and political regimes. I think that I would go so far as to consider the life of faith lived in society as normative.

  56. Xenia says:

    Do as God draws you to do.

  57. Em says:

    My kingdom is not of this world or my followers would fight…. Something we all know our Lord said (loosely quoted)
    What we are called to do is stand, so? What does it mean – to stand? Are we road blocks? Flaggers? ? ? 🙆

  58. Xenia says:

    I am not suggesting Christians should hide in their houses. I am saying that there could be chaos in our near future and it would be a good idea to be prepared. Stock some supplies, get rid of indulgences and addictions, and pray up. There might be riots, services might be disrupted, etc. If you don’t think this is a possibility, I am not here to argue with you; do what you think God is telling you to do. I think my suggestions are good even if there’s no troubles on the horizon.

  59. Em says:

    Xenia, i have a smart daughter who is saying the same thing.
    If Portland is s harbinger……

  60. Xenia says:

    I live in a town that has the potential to go berserk if the election is slow in being counted or if the

    results are not to their liking. I am also leery of relying too much on Amazon.

    Folks might feel secure because they live in nice towns but let us not forget the existence of outside agitators. In our town, we have a BLM councilman who tried to get people to shut down the freeway a while back and he did manage to get the business district shut down for a while. He has a large following. I don’t trust him.

  61. Xenia says:

    Em, yep.

  62. Jean says:


    Another black man was murdered last weekend for being black. No matter what Trump and his supporters are telling the American people, the ACTUAL intimidation, violence and murder is by and large being perpetrated against black people (who matter), rather than by them. I can’t support the false narrative that the left is the existential danger to America. I believe the FBI has singled out white supremacy.

    Biden was 100% correct when he committed in the last debate to bring the police and minority communities together to work on solutions to the biases that are not serving but enslaving and murdering minorities. Imagine that – leadership! Black mothers have a right to see their sons grow up without fear of death every time they leave the house.

  63. Xenia says:

    Jean, I wrote something out that was in partial agreement, partial disagreement, with what you wrote. I deleted it. There was no point. I am not participating in political discussions anymore here.

    (And all God’s children said “Yay!”)

  64. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    LOL – It’s Biden’s 1994 crime bill that is still the ruling foundation of police work and attitudes.
    Perhaps if he gets in office he can over rule himself 🙂

  65. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Xenia, I am all stocked up for 6 months. I was preparing for the return of the virus shutdown.

    Don’t just stock potatoes and beans. Be sure you have plenty of ammo.

  66. MM says:


    Since you seem to be unable to actually see what’s going on politically and can’t let it go, I’ll spell it out for you.

    Both side are majoring on the minor (with one doing so more than the other) and thus hiding or misdirecting from the actual agendas and policies of the two parties. The choices coming up in November are not really about racism and its eradication (BTW an impossible task, something history has proven over and over again and yet Christians should always be the first to say NO to it) nor COVID (it will be gone sometime in the near future). It’s about which direction you feel is best for the USA over the next decade or more.

    Biden, Harris, Pelosi, Sanders, AOC and all the Democratic leaders have a rough ideal of what the USA should look like in ten years. Yes the COVID Crisis has made them more obvious. For consideration the Gov. of California has made an Executive mandate to eliminate all fuel powdered cars in the next 15 years. Good or bad? Depends on one’s understanding of the cleanliness and sustainability of EVs into the future.

    So let’s get off the Trump/Biden mania and base decisions on how we would like for the USA to look and act 10 years from now. What sort of social programs, “green” initiatives, Federal and State Taxation, Schools and Education, Police and social peace keeping and yes even religious tolerance do we expect and want to live with?

    This is what is at stake in this election, who will get to decide these things, Democrats or Republicans or some bi-partisan model.

    Now on the November election;
    Personally I doubt Biden will make it for four more years and Trump; well he’s not far behind. Also I believe in the system of government our Forefathers designed. It may be messy but for the majority of people, it works.

    Vote and live with the outcome, it’s how we do things.

  67. Duane Arnold says:

    Apocalyptic nonsense…

  68. bob1 says:

    Dr. Duane,

    At best.

    Whatever happened to nuance and shades of gray?

  69. MM says:


    You must have a great imagination and maybe looking for something not there.


    We vote for our future as a nation.

    How simple do you need it explained to you!

    Write another lyric or two about it. That always helps.

  70. bob1 says:

    A part of me feels really, really sorry for WH Staff. But they must’ve known what kind of madman the boss was.

    Steven Miller? I’m not shedding a tear for him. He’s been behind some of the cruelest and most evil policies of this administration.

  71. bob1 says:


    Grow up. Quit making personal attacks and your usual condescension.

  72. bob1 says:

    Trump is anti-abortion. He’s not prolife. Big, big differences.

    “Donald Trump Is Not Pro-Life. His Response to COVID-19 Proves It.”

    Written by David French, a conservative Christian guy.

  73. Steve says:

    Pro-life has always been about anti-abortion and perhaps anti-euthenasia. Only recently that I recall has it taken on these expanded definitions to include everything under the sun from healthcare to climate change to immigration policy and almost everything in between. No wonder it’s so hard to have healthy discourse when terminology gets deliberately changed. This isn’t nuance it’s obfuscation.

  74. Duane Arnold says:


    “Write another lyric or two about it. That always helps…”

    Sometimes it does…

  75. Jean says:


    What’s being obfuscated? Biden is pro-choice. No one has obfuscated that.

    I am pro-life, but you cannot understand how someone pro-life could vote for someone pro-choice? Here’s my answer: Biden’s pro-life stance does not impact me or my family. My family is my first and greatest priority. I hope to be a grandparent soon. Biden’s pro-family positions do affect my family. To live without being impoverished by health care, my family needs to be able to access medical care that is good quality and affordable. The GOP has talked for a decade about how they would bring that to the country, but have never shown us, much less voted on a bill.

    That is the most important issue that affects my family. But right behind health care, are the issues of Social Security and Medicare; If feel very strongly about these public programs that I my wife have paid into for our entire working lives, and I want them there for my children and grandchildren. I also care about education (without which you cannot earn a decent living), the environment, social cohesion, and the national debt.

    I will mention something else: The environment. Trump is stuck in the past. His promise is to bring back coal, but he lies when he calls it “clean.” He is turning the country back on the incomplete progress it has made to clean our waterways and air and remove harmful chemicals from our food. Moreover, he and his supporters have grabbed onto the talking point “green new deal,” as if such a concept is straight from hell.

    Biden has not signed onto plan called the greed new deal, but has his own green plan. The basis for that plan is not only climate and the environment, but it is the acknowledgement that the world is turning to new technology. Telsa is a leading example. No matter what America does, the world is turning to wind, solar, battery and other green technologies. Why not support policies that would support American innovation and leadership in these emerging technologies? They are both good for the environment and they are good for the economy and jobs.

    There’s a feeling that the GOP only cares about businesses and not workers. Yesterday Trump changed his mind and allowed new FDA guidelines for approving a Covid vaccine. The day before he overrode the FDA because he had received some industry pushback. The question is, who does he serve, the pharma companies or the people?

    Do you trust his EPA? His BLM? His USDA? His INS? If he says, Eat this – it’s safe; take this – it works; would you believe him?

    It’s always the same way with the GOP. Whether its drilling, emissions, food labeling, pesticides, GMO, regulations, or what have you. Corporations come first and the people second or third. People don’t want that. They want leaders who put the needs of the people and families first.

    I love the liability “reform” sponsored by McConnell which would shield businesses and employers from liability if someone gets covid: “Plaintiffs would have to show by “clear and convincing evidence” that a business committed a “conscious, voluntary act or omission in reckless disregard” of their legal duties.” Who could prove that? But where is the liability on the business or employer for not following CDC guidelines? It’s ridiculous. There’s a reason why McConnell is called Corporate Mitch.

    Michael can speak to the issue of immigration, but Trump’s form of populism, which creates people groups as scapegoats is downright demonic and dangerous. The Chinese did not give Trump Covid; his own reckless behavior did. Asylum seekers and Dreamers aren’t the source of unemployment, crime or drug addiction in this country. The press is not the enemy of the people. And the list goes on.

    Have you noticed that Trump has not published an economic, health care, education, Tax or other blueprint for a second term. He’s running a pure negative campaign. I’ve never heard of such a thing before. Have you?

  76. Steve says:

    Jean,. Relax. Chill a bit. I’m not even sure who I’m voting for yet. I can certainly understand folks who vote either direction. But I’m not sure you can. Regarding negative campaigning, Clinton perfected that in 2016 along with Trump. Nothing new there.

  77. Michael says:


    I must say I admire your thought processes and the specific issues you address.
    There is no point in me speaking on the gross abuse of humanity at the border…many Christians approve heartily of it and this has warped my soul.
    When I heard that Miller had contracted Covid19 my heart sang and the cats got extra treats…he should get the same care that those in cages for seeking asylum are getting.
    I’ll go to confession tomorrow…

  78. Jean says:

    I will be in the confessional right beside you. Please don’t listen in; my list is long these days.

  79. Michael says:


    Seriously, maintaining an authentic faith and witness has become so very difficult in this climate.
    It is especially hard when trying to be a good example to a young person and here online.
    I really will be in confession tomorrow…my biggest fear is becoming what I contend with in others.

  80. MM says:


    Just go and vote, there’s nothing more any of us can do at this point.

    Here’s what I do know;
    Most of us will wake on November 4th and the world will not have changed at all. Eventually only 2020 hind sight will tell our conscious if we wisely spent our vote.

    Go on filling God’s instructions to those in your circle. It’s really all we can do.


    Considering your history for political rants and contributions to the mania, I’d say you too need to follow your own advice, just saying…


    There’s enough sin going around to fill a bag or two.

    Yep, we all need a bit of regular repentance.

    The answers are not in either Political Party and never have been. Why then do so many think they are and spend so much time and energy destroying ourselves and others over them?

  81. Michael says:


    As much as I hate it, some things are answered politically.
    How we respond to a pandemic.
    How we treat those fleeing violence and poverty.
    How we steward the bounty of natural resources the Lord has given.
    These are life and death issues and those of us who claim Christ are to be bearers of light and life.

  82. Mike E. says:

    This is what bothers me. Michael posts two links about the EVIL (Michael properly labeled it…) going on at the border, and there’s little to no response. I’ve had it with this selective outrage at “evil.” ALL evil is against God. Why does the evil against the unborn move so many Christians, yet the evil against immigrant women and children provoke yawns?

  83. Duane Arnold says:

    Mike E.

    I think we need to come up with a term like, “selective compassion”…

  84. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I think it is laughable that some here think voting makes a difference and changes things. I read much on political history and biography especially in my lifetime. I have probably 100 books covering political figures since Truman.

    But I won’t ask anyone else to read, but have an easier alternative. My wife and I have been watching Boston Legal – which took place during GW’s administration. Each episode has a back story of some socio/ political issue going on – the exact same issues as today. Since then we have had 3 administrations, Congress has shifted 2 or 3 times and nothing changes.

    Not good enough? Go watch The West Wing which goes back to the Clinton administration – same issues.

  85. MM says:


    “ As much as I hate it, some things are answered politically.”

    Yes, but…

    In spite of what MD writes about our vote, unless people are willing to take up arms, bring destruction to lives, the only political tools we have is to first vote, and then work in our local community and circles to effect what change we think is worthy to sway others towards (it’s easy to forget others may not share our enthusiasm for change).

    Not to be cynical, but shortly after we die no one really cares or will actually remember our presence in the world and many may even say, “good he/she is gone!”

    I personally don’t want to remember this election as all about hating a particular candidate. I think it makes God weep when we do such things.

    While there always has been something wrong with our Presidents, I can’t think of one in my lifetime who didn’t have some enduring qualities.

  86. Mike E. says:

    Duane..yes…selective compassion = selective righteousness. 😢

  87. Jean says:

    If one cares about life, our economy, justice, your family, consider the following facts:

    According to the CIA, as of 2017, the US ranked #43 in life expectancy.

    According to John’s Hophkins, in 2016, America spent the highest amount in the world on healthcare. Per capita, $9,892. Switzerland was second at $7,919. Canada was $4,753.

    We pay the most, but have if not the worst, close to the worst outcomes of any industrialized country. It’s a disgrace.

    You can’t run a competitive economy if businesses, workers and government are burdened with outrageous healthcare costs. And you can’t have a good life if your sick or dying at rates significantly above the average of first world countries.

    People talk about freedom and liberty, but it is access to medical care, prevention and safe food, air and water, which facilitate freedom and liberty.

  88. bob sweat says:


    I knew you would be a Denny Crane fan!

  89. Michael says:

    “Not to be cynical, but shortly after we die no one really cares or will actually remember our presence in the world and many may even say, “good he/she is gone!”

    Many of my dead live in me and with me…but as my mentor wrote, some of the dead are still breathing…

  90. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “You can’t run a competitive economy if businesses, workers and government are burdened with outrageous healthcare costs. ”

    I hope this is your call for big pharma and the medical industry to roll back their costs / pricing. Healthcare does not become more affordable by having others pay for it.
    However, if the medical industry would admit to ripping of the American citizen and rollback their prices 50%, then perhaps we could make a go of it.

  91. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Bob Sweat – love Denny and the whole group – with their bravado and their insecurities – they are America 🙂

  92. Jean says:


    I asked you NOT to respond to me or my comments on this blog Period.

  93. Martin Luther's Disciple says:


  94. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    However, Jean’s position (I am not replying to him as requested 😉 ) but if we did not pick up a good portion of all these countries defense then perhaps we could compete better in the areas mentioned.
    My position all along is that we let these ‘modern’ countries defend themselves and that we cut our defense budget by a third. The war in Europe has been over 75 years and Korea 67 years – why do we still have troops there?

    So we trade our war machine for healthcare and education – I’m in!!!

  95. Jean says:

    Don’t use my name either. And don’t quote me. Simply put, don’t engage with me or my comments. There are plenty of others here that you can engage with.

  96. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Are you stalking me?

  97. Em says:

    MLD – the world is permeated with evil. We probably need our war machines, but why are they scattered all over this planet? My bills that have come from the hospital are almost indecipherable and huge, but medicare chops them down to pennies on the dollar. I pay nearly $5,000 a year for my supplemental insurance and their payout was pathetic on the last go round of med. care. I conclude that our system has deteriorated into a mess.
    We have an aged, toothless rescue cat that lost its home because its people had to sell their house to pay uninsured medical bills. I suspect that some sky high medical costs are the result of government bureaucracy knee-capping the caregivers both in reimbursement and paperwork.
    Not right at all…
    Jean, we need MLD’s input here. Don’t try to intimidate him because I seriously doubt that you can. 😇
    God keep us all as we search for God’s redemption and Truth

  98. Steve says:

    Jean @8:38. The low life expectancy in the US is not because of unsafe food or lack of health care. It’s actually because the average American eats way too much food and doesn’t exercise. In poorer countries with more moderate food availability and more necessity to rely on physical activity for daily activities has tremendous benefit for life expectancy. Big pharma typically only treats the symptoms caused by the big food industry in a symbiotic way. You don’t treat this problem by taxing us all more to pay for more food and more drugs that keep Americans more addicted to this unhealthy lifestyle.

  99. Jean says:


    #43 means we’re behind a lot more than just poor countries

    Who suggested the answer is “taxing us all more?” You don’t understand how insurance or risk pools work, or you wouldn’t say something that foolish.

  100. Em says:

    Steve, you have a point – I confess that i eat too much
    I found that out 😟 after this last month of surgeries left me with almost no appetite and only able to eat about 1/3 of my plate at mealtime

  101. bob1 says:

    Actually, the real reasons American life expectancy is down boils down to 3 things:

    — Suicide
    — Liver disease
    — Drug overdoses's%20report%2C%20the,chronic%20liver%20disease%2C%20and%20suicide.

  102. Em says:

    Point taken, bob1 – but…..
    I lost some weight and do feel better and hat counts for something.
    Suicides? How sad, how very sad… kind pf makes the case for a life of challenges and hard work…. and living clean

  103. bob1 says:

    Suicides? How sad, how very sad

    I believe the reality of income inequality — which has been increasing for several decades — also plays a significant role in this.

  104. Em says:

    Income inequality? Hmmm. Can we lay that at the feet of corporate America and do nothing unions?

    As a Believer looking back, i am amazed at God’s faithful provision – so much of what we think we need, we don’t really need….. (in the 50’s making ten thousand a year put you in tall cotton, but good ground beef was 19 cents a pound and, if memory serves, gold was $32 an ounce )….

    It is really hard today to actualize that our God really is in charge and things are laying out just as He knew they would with the devil in charge for a time

    Come soon, Lord Jesus – come soon! ! !

  105. Bride of Christ says:

    Em, Why do you think unions have caused income inequality? Most ecoonomic experts believe exactly the opposite. Fifty years ago, back when we had a healthy middle class,most Americans were in unions. My grandfather who came to America from Sweden by boat when he was just 18 years old, was a fisherman by trade and he refused to wear a shirt unless it had a union label sewed I to it. We didn’t have such shameful income inequality and corporate greed in those days.

  106. Em says:

    BoC, yes there was a day when the unions did do their job…. the last century – watching them today? I don’t think they do….
    Sweden? One set of my great grandparents came from there – he was a shoemaker …. solid citizens

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