Both Sides Now: KevinH

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16 Responses

  1. Alan says:

    When you begin to rail against the Democrat candidate himself and his moral bankruptcy like you do the populist I will give more than a one hand clap to this foray into consistency.

  2. Kevin H says:

    Alan,

    My primary concern with consistency is with the consistency of the Church with the commands, principles, and exhortations of God, not with political candidates. Greater so than that, my concern is primarily with those in the family of God with whom I most a part of – that being politically and theologically conservative evangelicals.

    We’ve been over this ground plenty of times before. When I see the Church as whole, and especially my segment of the Church inordinately and immorally supporting a corrupt Democratic politician or party, then I will have much to say about that situation and candidate and party. But that is not our reality right now and I choose to speak to reality while guided by God’s instructions to be more concerned with our own than with outsiders.

    For me, it’s never been, and hopefully never will be about trying to keep things “balanced” between who I speak to or who I speak about.

  3. Terrie R. Beede says:

    Matt 7:3-4

    Parents expect much more from, and are much more critical of, their own children than their neighbor’s children. Jesus did not spend time rebuking the political system outside of God’s people. That in fact, is why His own people abandoned Him, and said “We have no king but Caesar”, and “Give us Barabbas”. Jesus spent His time addressing the issues within the structure of God’s people. Scripture, from cover to cover, spends far more time rebuking those who profess to be of the kingdom, than it spends on those who are without. That does not mean the standard is different. It means the relationship is different. We cannot warn and discipline those who are without, with any measure of consistency or success. We can only warn and discipline our own. Therefore it is both logically and Scripturally reasonable to expect that we will spend the majority of our time reproving, rebuking, and exhorting our own. It is only as we do so that the “nations” may have opportunity to look upon us and say “Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people” – Deut 4:6 (And I am speaking of the nation of God’s people, as was the Lord through Moses, not the nation wherein we dwell on this earth as strangers).

  4. Kevin H says:

    Thank you, Terrie.

  5. Dan from Georgia says:

    I always saw those voter guides as very unhelpful because most of the ones I used, only the conservatives actually answered the questions/did the surveys. The brunt of the questions were NOT answered by the other candidates.

  6. R'as al Ghul says:

    The bottom line is that no politician should speak from a pulpit. Period. It is for the proclamation of God’s word. This also means they have to be Christians. Which means no Jews, Muslims, etc. What Biden did is just as bad as John Hagee having Bibi Netanyahu speak on Sunday at his church.

  7. Jerod Hatch says:

    You have to assume that God’s Word is being spoken there to be so upset, My guess is that it isn;t. Hence Joe Biden gives the sermon.

  8. R'as al Ghul says:

    Jerod,

    The same goes with John Hagee, Robert Jeffress, the various Calvary Chapels, and others who have politicians in their pulpit.

  9. Muff Potter says:

    R’as al Ghul @ 11:34 pm,
    They don’t want a democracy, they want a dictatorship.

  10. Jerod Hatch says:

    Its interesting to see so many leaders who I would’ve been caught listening to pre-covid begin seeking to join or aquire the administrative state. It’s one reason I cannot abide with PostMil – Preterist Replacement/Kingdom Now beliefs. Those folks are most likely saved, these leaders in question as well, I think. But every time they get on a rant about the direction of the church I keep hearing this little voice say, “But Jesus said… but the bible says…”

  11. Jerod Hatch says:

    Not that all these leaders are PostMil-Preterist etc. But their actions certainly are starting to dovetail. Maybe there’s a spirit of Pragmatism going around.

  12. TMD says:

    Wow, Kevin you are showing some balance in your preaching. Thank you.

    Now the debate or discussion should be this; how do you define the purpose of the church gathering?

    Is it to teach the bible, the serving of the sacraments, a community center, or something else?

    I feel it is clearly not a “tabernacle,” in the sense of the one God instructed Israel to build in the desert. It is not where God has made His home amongst His people. Why?

    In NT theology the Tabernacle or Temple was replaced by God living in His people. They are the dwelling place of God, and if this is so what then in the purpose of the gathering together? There is an instruction to “not forsake” this gathering, so it would be good to have a sense of what it should look like.

    Defining what one believes is this purpose will help decide if it is okay (or not) for politicians, lay persons or anybody else to speak from the pulpit.

    Now I’ll throw out what I believe too often is the truth about those who hold the pulpit or start churches, it’s really all about them. Not much different than being a rock star, but instead of songs and music the product is religion.

  13. Jerod Hatch says:

    What is the purpose of the Church and does it ever dovetail with the State? I have been wondering what the purpose of the church is myself lately.

    I just looked up “What is the purpose of the Church?” on Got Questions and came away with the following:

    The purpose of the Church is described throughout the NT in the letters the Apostles wrote. One purpose would be Acts 2:42 “They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles‚Äô teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.”

    Then there is the great Commision given to the Apostles which they taught their followers, i.e…

    We observe the Lord’s Supper in remembrance of him 1 Corinthians 11

    We love one another – 1 John 3

    1 Peter 3:15″… but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, but with gentleness and respect,”

    and James tells us, ‚ÄúReligion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and [lastly, in this context especially poignant] to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.” He is reiterating Isaiah. There are many more verses just on that webpage and more in Scripture.

    Of course they are all reiterating the OT in describing the purpose of the Church because that was essentially the mission of Israel, to be a light to the Gentiles – Isaiah 49:6 – “He says, ‘It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant To raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the protected ones of Israel; I will also make You a light of the nations So that My salvation may reach to the end of the earth.’ “.
    This is fulfilled in our Lord’s work Who is no light-under-a-bushel.

    The mission/purpose of the Church as the body of Christ (1 Cor 12:12) driven by His Spirit, is to be doing what he would be doing.

    Would He, or any of the Apostles or early church Fathers invite Joe Biden to speak from the Pulpit for the sanctification, exhortation and edification of the Saints?

    Do the Biden’s strike us as someone who are Spiritual leaders/teachers? Are they folks in need of the Gospel? Is that church a little more polluted or a little more sanctified having had him speak? Are things clearer for the layfolk or more muddied? If having politicians address a congregation comes down to a cost/benefit analysis, I wonder if they/we hold to a gospel that is more pragmatic than powerful.

    Perhaps this church does much for the poor and widow and the fatherless, I don’t know. But if they preach orthodox biblical doctrine from the pulpit, then they have to ask themselves why they just let that man speak, imo.

  14. Muff Potter says:

    Muff Potter @ 7:49 am,
    It would be as brutal a regime (christian theocracy) as any the world has seen.

  15. Nonnie says:

    Sunday AM worship service is no place for dirty politics by dirty politicians. The service is to proclaim Christ and the Good News of the Kingdom. Leave politics out of the church service.

  16. R'as al Ghul says:

    Nonnie, @ your 9:53 PM.

    That was my point earlier. This yet another reason why people are walking away from the church and Christianity in droves. Seems like the “godless” pagan nones and others have a better grasp on the purpose of church services than most Christians and pastors. But then, I would surmise that most of these nones have a better idea what a Christian is supposed to be than most “Christians”.

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