Do Not Comply?

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58 Responses

  1. richard says:

    although i agree with your article, i sincerely hope that the government does not mandate vaccines for all. I received the 2 initial shots plus 1 booster, and at this time I’m calling that enough. I’m dealing with a health issue right now that i feel may have been caused by the vaccine….doctors are still undecided, as am I.
    I feel that the covid vaccine development was rushed and not tested for as long as it should have been.

  2. Michael says:

    Richard,

    I doubt that any mandates will happen even if a quarter of the population drops dead.
    The government destroyed any trust and it would be political suicide to impose anything on the people at this point.

    I have lots of doubts about the vaccines and share your concerns about their safety…I won’t be taking any boosters.

  3. Linn says:

    Michael,

    I’m to the point where I can politely smile at people and say:
    I can dye my hair purple if I want to.
    I can wear a mask where I want to.

    It’s not such a big deal where I live as it’s Silicon Valley, but at church…that could be another story. But, we’ve had a few cases at school, and if we have many more, on goes the mask! (I’ll leave the purple hair).

  4. richard says:

    california came close to mandating the jab for all school kids..

    i could care less if one is masked or not, but i still get a chuckle when i see someone alone in their own car, windows up, masked.

  5. Michael says:

    Linn,

    I feel the same way…I don’t have purple hair, but I do wear purple shoes…my teams colors…and I could care less what people think…

  6. Linn says:

    P.S. I don’t have any issues about the vaccines. I actually consider them one of the marvels of our time. I know a small percentage of people get sick (I personally know one who is still recovering), but they are a very small minority. I also know people who are allergic to the materials in hip implants (I’m on my second one)-again, a small minority. Everything I’ve read and watched regarding the process of vaccine development seems like they got it right (for most people).

  7. The New Victor says:

    The Cali governor curiously went silent on mandating vaccinations for all kids in the K-12 public school system. This was a huge story that the media missed. Why? I’ll take my kids’ school district as an example: there was barely a 30% compliance rate. The district is 97% BIPOC, hardly MAGA types at all. A mandate would have destroyed the public school system in California.

    I had to get vaxxed to keep my job. We got the kids vaxxed. None of us got boosters. We also all got the virus last July.

  8. Michael says:

    TNV,

    I think the mandates are gone for good…even if a day comes when we need them…

  9. JimB says:

    How about if the government mandates persons take a PCR test…. I will never take another PCR test. A biolab was discovered in Reedley Ca, (Fresno Co) in which the workers were making pregnancy tests and PCR tests in the same building where a thousand mice were found along with 20 pathogens…. https://www.rsbnetwork.com/news/kiley-joins-mccarthy-in-a-call-for-an-investigation-into-illegal-chinese-run-biolab-uncovered-in-fresno-county-ca/

    We’re the early 🇺🇸 Americans wrong to throw off British rule as that was the Government at the time. Hitler was appointed to office, were his laws and dictates to be followed without question.

  10. Michael says:

    JimB,

    This is really not that complicated.
    The American Revolution couldn’t be justified biblically.
    Paul lived under insane Roman emperors and still told his churches to respect the state…you obey the state unless the state demands disobedience to God….not your political beliefs.

  11. AA says:

    The people on Maui obeyed the government, listened to the officials, the children went home waited for emergency instructions.

  12. Kevin H says:

    While admitting that my knowledge on the situation is limited, it would seem the Maui government seemingly failed in at least some significant ways in response to the wildfires. Seemingly a good many more lives could have been saved with a more competent response.

    If officials tell you to go home until further instructions and you can see the fires dangerously approaching your home, you are under no obligation to “obey” the government’s instructions as the governments instructions at that point are clearly mistaken and any government official if put in the same situation would tell you not to “obey” the previous order as that point it becomes clear it was a mistaken order and it would be better not to follow it and in no way would anyone think at that point that this is an act of “disobedience”.

    It is no different than a situation where a parent may tell a child to stay put where they are not realizing that there is a charging animal coming to attack the child. When the child sees the animal and chooses to flee, they are not disobeying their parent nor would any parent ever see such an act as disobedience.

    However, if the government gives a command and one chooses not to obey it simply because they don’t “trust” the government or think they know better because of something they read on the internet, then they are guilty of disobedience. Disobedience not just to the government, but also disobedience to what God commands.

    In emergency situations, there are times that the government is wrong about things. Certainly there were things that ended up being wrong as to how they handled COVID. However, if everyone took the mindset that they “know better” than the government and choose to ignore government instructions in emergency situations, there is going to be far more chaos, death, and destruction in 99 out of 100 cases than if they just obeyed in the first place.

  13. Michael says:

    Kevin answered well.

    We have the opposite issue here….people refusing to evacuate when they should and making things difficult for fire fighters and law enforcement.

  14. richard says:

    as the article below says, the jury is still out on the effectiveness of mask wearing. personally, i would wear a mask in an environment that i feel may be highly contagious. i also shy away from handrails on stairs, doorknobs, and touching my face whenever possible, and i wash my hands much more frequently than pre-pandemic.
    BUT……I don’t trust our government very much. During the pandemic, instead of saying “we’re not sure”, or “we don’t know” they told us flat out that if you got the vaccine you wouldn’t catch covid. we now know that is not the case, and they quickly changed their tune to “it’s less severe if you get the jab”. Whether they flat out lied or just didn’t know, it was deceptive. they could have been more truthful.
    Obedience to government authority can be very selective…..if you try to only go the speed limit on a freeway you are very likely to get honked at and maybe worse. Not too many people obey the government when it comes to freeway speed limits.
    I try to interact with our government, wether it be city, county, state, or federal, as little as possible….i’ll vote and accept the results. But for the most part it’s not that well run, and many in charge don’t have a clue as to what they’re doing.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2023/02/covid-mask-guidelines-fight-cochrane-review/673039/

  15. Michael says:

    Richard,

    Sounds like we interact with outside environments in much the same way…and there is no doubt that the government botched this whole scenario badly.

  16. Kevin H says:

    The reason why my family left our Calvary Chapel was it’s decision to disobey government mandates to wear masks in their school, where our daughters attended. I long had a good many difficulties as to how the church did things, but stayed for family considerations, but when the church chose to defiantly disobey government and in turn, God, even my wife who loved all things Calvary Chapel could not live with that.

    In private conversations with the church pastors and in public communication from them, they stated that God had made parents ultimately responsible for all things pertaining to their children, and since some parents thought masks were harmful, the church/school could not violate the parents’ consciences or rights. Never mind the fact that the church/school imposed their own rules upon the students that were required to be adhered to, even if the parents disagreed or thought it wasn’t what was best for their children (I’m not even meaning things that are clearly moral commands of God, but things of arbitrary judgment such as a pretty strict dress code, no romantic physical contact allowed between students, not even hand-holding, no dancing, etc.). Never mind the fact that the church/school has always adhered to all other government requirements of vaccines and health standards for children, even while knowing that there are parents who disagree with them. Never mind that the church would never advocate for a parent who chose to use their own conscience/judgment/right to not take their sickly child to the doctor, trusting only in God to heal them, even if it ended in death.

    Meanwhile, one of the church pastors argued with me that mask mandates were unconstitutional and that the Supreme Court had actually overturned some of them (verifiably untrue) and the church expected this one would be too. The same pastor argued with me that there were all kinds of proof of great harm being done to children by masks, but when asked what the proof was he only kept citing an already debunked study from Europe (that wasn’t really a study at all but much more of an opinion survey) and that his nephew had supposedly gotten a rash from a mask. Another pastor meanwhile played games with the city and strung it out as long as he could, delaying meetings and promising the city that the school just needed time to start complying, all the while making plans not to comply. Only when the city imposed an injunction against the school that threatened to close the whole school down did they start complying. Then the senior pastor got in the pulpit and told all kinds of lies about how they handled the mask situation, such as how they supposedly complied with the city as soon as the city said something to them, and how the CDC had reported 600 juvenile deaths from the previous flu season and how COVID hadn’t even taken nearly that many so it wasn’t even as bad as the flu (a quick google search confirmed from the CDC themselves that they had reported exactly 1 juvenile death from the previous flu season and had never reported more than 199 juvenile deaths from any given flu season). He also said the church’s/school’s problem only came about because one parent had reported them to the Health Board (the city clearly communicated to the church/school that there had been multiple complaints received from parents) and this wasn’t even true as their troubles in fact started when a city inspector was in to do a standard inspection of the cafeteria and noted that students and staff were not wearing masks in the school and reported back to city leadership at which point the city first and immediately contacted the school about their non-compliance, citing the inspector’s report.

    All this to say, we can often come up with all kinds of rationale as to why we don’t need to follow clear teachings or commands in Scripture, but often those rationales plunge us deeper and deeper into disobedience and sin. And all the more in today’s environment, we allow partisan politics to influence if not even drive those rationales, all the while denying it’s about politics and somehow convincing ourselves that it’s about following God, when it is anything but.

  17. Michael says:

    Well said, Kevin.

    I’m already seeing pastors encouraging division with all the accusations and recriminations that accompany politics, but have no place in the church.

    This puts people in the pews…and undoes any discipleship they may have acquired before.

    We’re in for difficult times with Covid and the coming elections…

  18. Jim says:

    There’s 56,000+ PCR tests that were recalled due to being linked with a biolab in Reedley Ca that had 20 pathogens in the lab. Also in April of 2021 the Canadian Health Service did a recall of 30.1 million masks as masks from a particular Chinese company had imported masks into Canada which were tainted with a toxic particle which was making numerous people have illness with respiratory symptoms.
    https://recalls-rappels.canada.ca/en/alert-recall/masks-kn95-masks-biomass-graphene-2021-04-08
    Also 1300 Chinese ‘companies’ provide the same fictitious https://recalls-rappels.canada.ca/en/alert-recall/masks-kn95-masks-biomass-graphene-2021-04-08
    address to the FDA // address was found to be an apartment complex

    In the summer of 2018, one of China’s largest domestic vaccine makers sold at least 250,000 substandard doses of vaccine for diphtheria, tetanus, and whooping cough. It was the latest in a slew of scandals caused by poor quality drug products made in China over the last decade. In 2008, the contamination of a raw ingredient imported from China and used to make heparin, a blood-thinning drug, was associated with at least eighty-one deaths the United States.

    In 2008, the contamination of a raw ingredient imported from China and used to make heparin, a blood-thinning drug, was associated with at least eighty-one deaths the United States. According to an investigative journalist fraud and manipulation of quality data is still endemic in Chinese pharmaceutical firms.

  19. Michael says:

    Jim,

    Is there a point you’re trying to make in all this?
    Just make your point…

  20. Captain Kevin says:

    Now that seems like something worth funding. But alas, political division strikes again.

  21. Jim says:

    Michael my point is simple the Chinese Communist Party is using asymmetrical warfare and is deliberately infusing pathogens into food ,drink and medical products and U.S. government is mandating the use of the PCR tests and masks.

  22. Jim says:

    The Lord himself is trying to wake people up. In North Carolina a tornado ripped apart Pfizer’s largest plant and destroyed 50,000 pallets of ‘product’.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/tornado-struck-pfizer-plant-ripped-warehouse-drugs-stored-rcna95384
    Pfizer has numerous massive factories in China which are under the control the most powerful despotic regimes this world has ever seen the CCP
    To think the CCP wouldn’t use subterfuge against the trusting western nations they want to dominate is naive.

  23. Josh says:

    I guess that’s a fun diversion?

  24. Jim says:

    I love the Chinese people I personally believe there are more Christians in China than there are people in the US.
    Beautiful video of Chinese Christians receiving Bibles which were illegally smuggled in to their country ( they disobeyed the government)

  25. Jim says:

    So Mike if you were involved in CCM in the late 70’s early 80’s. CCM was involved in this effort to smuggle 1 million Bibles in to communist China in defiance of the CCP government…… was this wrong also
    https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/551457/when-missionaries-smuggled-one-million-bibles-into-communist-china

  26. Officerhoppy says:

    “ The Lord himself is trying to wake people up.”

    Really?

  27. Kevin H says:

    Yup, and this church must have been doing some terrible things when God chose to wake it up by destroying it with a tornado earlier this year:

    https://www.thv11.com/article/news/local/jacksonville-tornado-damage-jubilee-church/91-394c28bd-2bcd-4928-b358-7a3e3cc927b0

  28. Kevin H says:

    This orphanage in the DRC must have been doing some terrible stuff too as God chose to wake it up by burning down one of its buildings:

    https://www.persecution.org/2023/05/31/orphanage-fire-drc/

  29. Kevin H says:

    And no doubt Maui needed to be woken up. That’s why God must have sent those fires there, too.

  30. Kevin H says:

    Meanwhile, Vladimir Putin must be honoring the Lord with his war in Ukraine as the Lord has not done anything to “wake up” Putin and has allowed him to continue to kill and ravage the people of Ukraine and anybody who dare try a mutiny against him.

  31. Michael says:

    Jim,

    Attributing natural disasters to God in order to support your politics preferences is a violation of the commandments at best and blasphemy at worse.

    Having been in one of the largest natural disasters in my states history, that suggestion is particularly odious to me.

    These are not the quality of conversations I choose to have on this site…therefore, I have blocked you again and finally.

    There are lots of places that will welcome your histrionics.
    Mine will not.

  32. RM says:

    “Paul lived under insane Roman emperors and still told his churches to respect the state…you obey the state unless the state demands disobedience to God….not your political beliefs.”

    When the Nuremburg court has a higher moral authority and an higher moral standard than a pastor. The government that Paul said to submit to killed him for not submitting sufficiently. And the same govt killed Peter who also said to submit to gov’t. Either Peter and Paul were liars or you’ve misread the situation.

    The thing is, all the worst things govt have done did not begin with their atrocities that are plainly evil, rather they began with seemingly the most innocuous. It’s starts with limiting travel, moves to fencing off an area, renaming the area a ghetto, telling people there’s a health risk there. It’s a long process to make a group for the trains to transport. There’s many logistics in place. You have to build the fences, barracks, and showers long before you can house the undesirables. All the while the physical buildings are being built, the list of residents is being built.
    Lt. Callie didn’t start with burning the village, he surrounded the village and interrogated until people started to panic, a couple underlings started raping, then they burned the evidence. For Callie and for the court at Nuremburg, the secular courts all decided that the atrocities began long before any lives were lost.

  33. Michael says:

    RM,

    I haven’t misread anything.

    The entirety of the prophetic witness of scripture and particularly the books of Daniel and the Revelation…tell us that obedience to God will result in martyrdom for many.

    The clear teaching of these prophetic books is that we will have to persevere…endure faithfully while living in a world consumed by the spirit of anti-Christ…that will often respond to the people of God with oppression and violence.

    Obeying God also resulted in the death of God incarnated …at the hand of the state.

    Before you come on here again with another personal cheap shot, I suggest you exercise your oft spoken faithfulness to scripture and read through these books again…maybe you need to prepare your flock for what’s really coming, pastor.

  34. Michael says:

    “When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of all who had been martyred for the word of God and for being faithful in their testimony. They shouted to the Lord and said, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you judge the people who belong to this world and avenge our blood for what they have done to us?” Then a white robe was given to each of them. And they were told to rest a little longer until the full number of their brothers and sisters—their fellow servants of Jesus who were to be martyred—had joined them.”
    (Revelation 6:9–11 NLT-SE)

    “Then one of the twenty-four elders asked me, “Who are these who are clothed in white? Where did they come from?”

    And I said to him, “Sir, you are the one who knows.” Then he said to me, “These are the ones who died in the great tribulation. They have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and made them white.”
    (Revelation 7:13–14 NLT-SE)

    ““It has come at last— salvation and power and the Kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters has been thrown down to earth— the one who accuses them before our God day and night.
    And they have defeated him by the blood of the Lamb and by their testimony. And they did not love their lives so much that they were afraid to die.”
    (Revelation 12:10–11 NLT-SE)

    We defeat evil the same way our Lord did…by the blood of the Lamb and our testimony …which is about Him even though it may cost us our life.

    This is the word of God…

  35. Michael says:

    Peter was told the manner in which he would die and knew the state would execute him for his testimony about Jesus.
    Jesus told him so in person.

    I would venture to say that Paul knew his fate as well when he dictated Romans 13…but he said what he said anyway.

    I will leave it to you to speak on their moral authority and standard.

    The decline and rot of every empire is foretold in the Scriptures and it includes the one we are living in now.
    I will not lie to my congregations about making empire great again…I will teach them that no matter the state of things politically we have to be ready to endure hardship and be faithful to Christ…no matter what it costs us.

    In that way we overcome…and only that way.

  36. RM says:

    This reminds me of Thomas More. Friends, family, fellow believers told him to surrender his conviction and simply do what the King requested. He said that the peace of another’s conscience offered no solace to his own.

    You’ve settled that your convictions are cemented in one place while an entire segment of Christian believers say theirs are cemented in another.

    The Bible does not command me to not get shot, to not starve to death, to not get disease, to not be struck by disaster. It commands me “Do not be deceived”.

    When I continue to believe *any* person or group that has practiced deception and continue to abide by their deception, when I fail to question that their next words may be a new deception based on their proven track record of deceiving, I move from being deceived to participating in a lie. I move from ‘deceived’ to ‘deceiver’.

    That’s why the Bible says ‘take every thought captive to Christ’. Every response. Every prompting. Every urging. Every request. Every order, mandate, law, command. Do not participate in lies.

    Another way of saying this? Do not comply with deception.

    Do you reject the phrase “Do Not Comply With Deception”?

  37. Michael says:

    RM,

    You simply comply with another set of deceptions that are more to your liking.
    There is no truth in the mouths of politicians at the present, except by accident or in search of opportunity.

    I answered your accusations with Scripture…you come back with yet another round of accusations.

    The deceptions that the Bible speaks of are concerning matters of faith and in particular obedience to the commands of Christ.

    They are not about judging political machinations where it is now impossible to discern what is true and what is false.

    I have enough on my plate being obedient to that which I understand.

  38. Kevin H says:

    I will repeat my last paragraph from a comment I posted yesterday:

    “All this to say, we can often come up with all kinds of rationale as to why we don’t need to follow clear teachings or commands in Scripture, but often those rationales plunge us deeper and deeper into disobedience and sin. And all the more in today’s environment, we allow partisan politics to influence if not even drive those rationales, all the while denying it’s about politics and somehow convincing ourselves that it’s about following God, when it is anything but.”

    Every human being has deceived others at one time or another. If we were to follow your logic, we would have to never comply with anyone because they have previously shown themselves to be deceivers and this that must be what they’re doing again. Except in your case, you are only assuming deception upon those you have labeled as political enemies.

    If government limits travel or fences off an area, we have no right to assume they are doing so with bad and deceptive motives unless we had some pretty clear evidence showing such. Otherwise, if we are just assuming so or assigning such guilt as reason not to comply, then we have allowed our rationalization to fall into the sin of disobeying God’s clear commands.

    I have said it many times before, but will so again:
    Partisan politics is poison to our soul.

  39. Michael says:

    “You’ve settled that your convictions are cemented in one place while an entire segment of Christian believers say theirs are cemented in another.”

    The dividing line is that one is concerned with the fate of a nation to the degree that they will baptize a profane man known for his sins and greed while I am preparing to live (and preparing my people to live) in a kingdom not made with hands.

  40. Michael says:

    Kevin,

    You are not responding to who you thought you were, so I edited that reference out.

  41. RM says:

    “I answered your accusations with Scripture…you come back with yet another round of accusations.”

    You don’t recognize “take every thought captive to Christ” or “Do not be deceived” as Scripture?

    “The deceptions that the Bible speaks of are concerning matters of faith and in particular obedience to the commands of Christ.

    They are not about judging political machinations where it is now impossible to discern what is true and what is false.”

    “Take every thought captive to Christ” means EVERY thought about EVERY thing.
    It’s NOT impossible to discern what is true and false in any realm for the believer – here’s another scripture you may not recognize: “The Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth.”

    “You simply comply with another set of deceptions that are more to your liking.”

    I am simply complying with submission to God in the convictions he has placed in my heart. You are assigning to me motives and actions you know nothing about. What deception have I complied with? What deception am I living out?

    You’re violating the 9th commandment. You’re bearing false witness against me. I know you know that is scripture.

  42. Kevin H says:

    Hey Michael, I see you have removed my educated guess. 😉 Maybe because it was pretty close to the truth. 😉

  43. Kevin H says:

    Or maybe not now that I have updated the comments. 🙂

  44. Michael says:

    RM,

    You began this discussion with a violation of the ninth commandment.

    One cannot argue with a man who believes that they have the Spirit to such a degree that they can judge all intents of purposes of another…

    Your “side” of the political spectrum engages in as much deception as the other…and when we believe all that agrees with us, we are inevitably swallowing deception.

    The greatest deception is that we are somehow going to take back this country and make it righteous…the beast will not be tamed.

  45. Michael says:

    Actually, that is a lessor deception to the one that says if someone does not fly your political flag they are your enemy…but Jesus told us this would happen too…

  46. Kevin H says:

    RM,

    God doesn’t place convictions on our hearts that our counter to our words. Assuming bad intentions upon government officials who limit travel or fences off an area, and thus acting out in or calling for non-compliance is not using discernment and “taking every thought captive to Christ”, rather it is “being wise in one’s own eyes” and deceiving themself.

    Once more it is devotion to partisan politics which is driving the deception and causing one to wrongly denigrate others.

  47. Michael says:

    I’ll make the same comment here that I made about Patrick Kyle.

    RM is by my observation a great family man and he seems to love the people he’s called to pastor.

    We disagree vigorously on many matters, but I do not hold him to be evil or unworthy of his calling.

    He is not an enemy, though he may consider me one…such is the state of the church.

  48. Michael says:

    I’ll be in a meeting for the next hour or so…

  49. Kevin H says:

    Reviewing my last comment, I think auto correct got me somehow. The first sentence was supposed to say, “God doesn’t place convictions on our hearts that *are counter to His Word.*”

  50. RM says:

    “God doesn’t place convictions on our hearts that our counter to our words. Assuming bad intentions upon government officials who limit travel or fences off an area, and thus acting out in or calling for non-compliance is not using discernment and “taking every thought captive to Christ”, rather it is “being wise in one’s own eyes” and deceiving themself.”

    That’s an interesting take. “Assuming bad intentions…” when we KNOW beyond all doubt that we were lied to about the efficacy of masks, the efficacy of the vax, the efficacy of standing six feet apart, the efficacy of isolating children from education

    . . . you have embraced the impossible, illogical, indefensible idea of a “noble lie”. Because someone, somewhere, in all the vast reaches of the trickle down rule giving may have *meant well* to compel an action that was intended for good but robed completely in lies.
    This, somehow should INCREASE my trust in a person or agency??

    Furthermore, you might be shocked – SHOCKED I say – to know that all the way back to Bible times, governments have fenced off areas, forbidden travel, and confiscated both people and property with nefarious means. My Bible, the Holy Spirit have conspired to twist my conscience to be averse to NOT learning from my mistakes, other’s mistakes AND deceptions.
    Why, I’ve even read in the Bible of a ruler of the powers of the earth who comes exclusively to steal, kill, and destroy.
    I read we’re supposed to resist THAT guy.

    It’s not ‘being wise in my own eyes’ to cross the street from the dog who has bitten me twice. That’s simple wisdom. It’s not being ‘wise in my eyes’ to refuse the doctor’s prescription when he’s been proven in malpractice.
    It’s not ‘wise in my own eyes’ to take my business to a business who doesn’t rip me off.

    The Bible says it’s good to suffer for doing right. It offers no praise for the one who refuses to learn or refuses wisdom. You get no points for punching yourself in the face to save your enemy from bruised knuckles.

    Last line, which would serve you well, Kevin is to correct your grammar / perception. “being wise in one’s own eyes” and deceiving “one’s self”, not ‘themself’. Wisdom begins with introspection.

    You’re not my enemy. You’re the guy who sadly has to be instructed how to get out of the rain.

  51. Kevin H says:

    RM,

    If it’s God’s clear instructions to stand in the rain, I will steadfastly stand in the rain rather than rely on my own rationalization that I should get out of the rain (or the rationalization of someone who for some reason is compelled to correct a grammar error of mine which has no bearing whatsoever on what is being discussed).

    What you seemingly refuse to admit is that all the government instructions about masks, vaccines, etc. were a mix of truth, error, and deception. You choose to categorize it all as “lies” despite there being certain aspects of all that stuff that has proven to be true or likely to be true. Just like those who you presumably support politically are also a mix of truth, error, and deception. That’s called being human. If one steps back from their predisposed political persuasions and sets out to truly and honestly evaluate the political landscape in this country, they will end up admitting to this fact, seeing that both sides (or however many sides you want to define it as) of the political aisle have employed significant and comparable amounts of truth, error, and deception.

    Yet your devotion to partisan politics drives you to see those who you politically don’t like to be pretty much always of bad intentions, despite evidence showing of the contrary.

    I don’t much trust government on either side of the political aisle, but that cannot stop me from following God’s commands to honor, respect, and obey them (unless of course in situations where they are doing something that clearly violate God’s other commands). Certainly the emperors of Jesus’, Peter’s, and Paul’s days had proven themselves to be far more filled with evil and bad intentions than our current government in America today. Yet, this is when God gave his commands to honor, respect, and obey.

    I will say it once more and will probably then leave the conversation if it continues to prove circular: Partisan politics is poison to the soul.

    God instructs us that partiality is wrong. Many American Christians in today’s age conveniently ignore this reality.

  52. RM says:

    my devotion to partisan politics…

    you seem to know my voting record, tell me, where have I sent my money? is there a sign in my yard? a bumper sticker on my car? where was my vote placed and for whom? when I did a write in candidate, whose name did i write in? how did i vote for my school board? how many candidates did i personally meet with? who was my vote for mayor – heck, ill give you all of th credit if you know what city i live in… ill give you the state and county – CA and Riverside County.
    did I get any angry letters for blasting Trump for mocking the pro life movement? was i accosted outside my church for refusing to circulate political petitions at the church i attend and teach at? was I unfriended and blocked for being “never Trunp” by former friends?

    I have said ‘do not comply with deception ‘ and you insist there is purity amid the deception.

    The echo chamber is so strong here it’s quite an accomplishment. keep on, then.

  53. Kevin H says:

    “I have said ‘do not comply with deception ‘ and you insist there is purity amid the deception.”

    Last thought and a question: Since you continue to want to categorize it all as “deception”, mocking the idea of there possibly being anything right or “pure” in it, what do you say of your brother-in-Christ, Francis Collins, Fauci’s then-boss. Certainly we can find some fault in some of the things he did and said throughout the pandemic, but can you truly stand there and say he was all deception with no good at all… that nothing he ever did was out of motivation to protect people, but rather only to deceive them? I would never want to stand on the ground of accusing a fellow believer (or any person for that matter) of being all deception, unless I had some rather strong evidence showing his actions and intentions to be so.

  54. Captain Kevin says:

    “heck, ill give you all of th credit if you know what city i live in… ill give you the state and county – CA and Riverside County.”

    Wildomar

  55. Captain Kevin says:

    Not sure if this thread died of natural causes or if I killed it.

  56. RM says:

    KevinH:
    “Last thought and a question: Since you continue to want to categorize it all as “deception”, mocking the idea of there possibly being anything right or “pure” in it, what do you say of your brother-in-Christ, Francis Collins, Fauci’s then-boss. Certainly we can find some fault in some of the things he did and said throughout the pandemic, but can you truly stand there and say he was all deception with no good at all… that nothing he ever did was out of motivation to protect people, but rather only to deceive them? I would never want to stand on the ground of accusing a fellow believer (or any person for that matter) of being all deception, unless I had some rather strong evidence showing his actions and intentions to be so.”

    Rob: I have found adequate grounds for my distrust of Collins. Here is a sample distilling several findings in one location:

    https://larryalextaunton.com/2022/02/preachers-gone-wild-francis-collins-and-the-big-eva-scandal/

    From the article, citing Meg Bashan (like Julie Roys, a writer who has found favor for research and investigation on this very site) I share the quote that best expresses my views:

    “Other than his proclamations that he is, himself, a believer, the NIH director espouses nearly no public positions that would mark him out as any different from any extreme Left-wing bureaucrat.

    He has not only defended experimentation on fetuses obtained by abortion, he has also directed record-level spending toward it. Among the priorities the NIH has funded under Collins — a University of Pittsburgh experiment that involved grafting infant scalps onto lab rats, as well as projects that relied on the harvested organs of aborted, full-term babies. Some doctors have even charged Collins with giving money to research that required extracting kidneys, ureters, and bladders from living infants.

    He further has endorsed unrestricted funding of embryonic stem cell research, personally attending President Obama’s signing of an Executive Order to reverse a previous ban on such expenditures. When Nature magazine asked him about the Trump administration’s decision to shut down fetal cell research, Collins made it clear he disagreed, saying, “I think it’s widely known that the NIH tried to protect the continued use of human fetal tissue. But ultimately, the White House decided otherwise. And we had no choice but to stand down.”

    And Captain Kevin has correctly cited my home town, I do not know if he has the inside skinny on my specific political biases…. but I’ve always liked his avatar guy.

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