Gayle Erwin and the Apostate American Church

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47 Responses

  1. Papias says:

    Wow. Strong statements brother.

    And necessary.

  2. Michael says:

    Papias,

    I’m getting old and cranky and so very frustrated.

    The Bible tells us that Christ died for our sins and through confession and repentance we will find restoration.

    That applies to all of us.

    That’s the model.

    We don’t have have to protect anything because all we have is in Christ…and because of that we can care for each other as we should.

  3. Em says:

    BRAVO !
    This Post should be nailed to every church door by tomorrow morning… but it won’t be…

    “Nowhere in scripture are we commended to adopt a corporate model of governance where the value is found in the top of the hierarchy and the rest of the members are disposable and replaceable parts.”
    having spent my adult life in the era that romanticized this corporate structure – it WAS what built the world we’re living in today – this cuts right to the core of the evil in what looked like a good idea
    perhaps it was, a distorted spin-off of the military war machine that dominated the world of the 1940s… dunno

  4. Michael says:

    Em,

    Thank you…you’re right it won’t be.
    What works well in the kingdoms of men is not always fitting for the kingdom of God.

  5. Nonnie says:

    “However, when over a hundred members of the GFA Diaspora asked for help, he did not even speak with them.”

    When this story first broke it was the heartbreaking testimonies that stirred me. I was disgusted that so many had hissy fits over the robes and ring kissing but said nothing about wounded brothers and sisters.

  6. Michael says:

    Nonnie,

    I haven’t done one of these stories yet where anyone cared about the wounded brothers and sisters.

    Not one…

  7. Em says:

    #6- wrong, Michael – YOU care and you’ve goaded folks who come here to care and to pray, also

  8. Nonnie says:

    Well, I care!
    And even more, JESUS cares!

  9. Michael says:

    I should rephrase that…the leadership involved did not care.

  10. Linnea says:

    Amen, Michael.

    I don’t know why, but I keep thinking of Acts 16:16-19 when I think of the apostate church. They say the right words, but do it for wrong reasons. Keeping the stock price high is paramount in this model.

  11. Josh the Baptist says:

    The ring kissing and robes, while it raised some eyebrows, is not what brought him either. The chance of financial liability is the only thing that sent the rats running.

  12. Michael says:

    ” Keeping the stock price high is paramount in this model.”

    Exactly!

    As well as the brand….

  13. GFA LIES says:

    “Apostasy has become the norm and is no longer recognized for what it is.”

    This is a damning indictment of the spiritual condition of most in the church today…

    AKA, we willingly drink the Kool-Aid

  14. covered says:

    Great observation Josh and parallels with what Michael has been saying. They speak out of both sides of their mouth. Basically they aren’t moved by the pain and corruption that is being created by their organization but as soon as there may be a shake down, they grow a conscience, take the high road, draw a line and jump ship. I would be curious as to how many of these guys, (Skip, Damien & Gayle) have met with their attorney’s.

  15. Backdoor says:

    Looks like those in Teen Mania were ready to literally drink the Kool-Aid…

    Scarry stuff here folks!!!

  16. Kevin H says:

    Strong but needed words.

    I am glad Gayle said anything at all (as that was more than expected) and drew even more light to the wrongdoing of GFA.

    With that said, the first thing Gayle should have done is to repent and apologize to the GFA Diaspora for the way he did them through his supposed “investigation”. Next he should be repenting and apologizing to GFA as a whole and all their donors for failure to fulfill his fiduciary responsibilities while on board with GFA. I get that K.P. and other top GFA leadership may have been sneaking things past the board without the board knowing or understanding what was going on. But the problem is that Gayle and the rest of the board members would have then been choosing to sit on a board where the culture allowed for them to not provide proper oversight. He and the the others should have long ago worked to be able to provide proper oversight. And if they couldn’t make that happen, then they should have resigned at that time. Not wait until the boat is sinking and try to jump off before they receive too much blame for the existing holes.

    Unfortunately, we know that far too often in cases like this, that doing the right thing doesn’t happen.

  17. filbertz says:

    Gayle perhaps should’ve, could’ve done more, but his statement and resignation should be commended.

    by the way, the linked videos above are worth the view–thanks for posting them. Several youth pastors locally take a large group of kids to Acquire the Fire in Portland annually–I’ll request they view this expose’ prior to the next one.

  18. Steve Wright says:

    Michael, you’ll love this irony. The co-founder and newly rehired CEO of Twitter (in hopes of turning the company around) TODAY literally made a public apology in a large meeting that was shown and reported on in the business news media

    Quote: “Somewhere along the line our relationship with developers got a little confusing, a little complicated, a little unpredictable,” he said at the company’s Flight conference for software programmers in San Francisco. “We want to come to you today and — first and foremost — apologize for the confusion and reset the relationship. We are learning, we are listening, and we are rebooting.”

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-21/twitter-s-dorsey-apologizes-to-developers-for-past-conflicts

    You may have to come up with a different example than the “corporate model” – even some of them seem to do things better than some mega ministries. 🙂

  19. Michael says:

    I don’t think Gayle should be commended for covering his ass without covering anyone else’s.

    I think Gayle, Skip, and Damian owe everyone an explanation for their actions and inactions.

    There are still CC pastors who believe this whole scandal is nothing more than bloggers being jerks…as usual.

  20. Michael says:

    Steve,

    A phrase similar to the one quoted should be easier to make in the church than anywhere else.
    I simply don’t get why it’s not.

  21. brian says:

    “The end justifies the means” Always and twice on Sunday, this is the paramount truth and not just in economics or revenue, which I agree are the absolute most important even, no especially over people. All the doctrinal whoo ha aside, this is a paramount and eternal truth.

  22. Surfer51 says:

    The minute I heard Skip was involved I knew something was up…

  23. Andrew says:

    Unfortunately CC and GFA follow a top down corporate hierarchy. The benefit of the doubt in any dispute will always go to the top dogs until such time the ship is sinking and than they jump ship. This is why the GFA Diaspora never had a chance with Gayle. Sad he wrote a book on the “Body Style” yet leaves the Diaspora in the cold.

  24. Judy says:

    Well, now you’ve drug out that “apostate” word, and I’m sure the hate email is about to pile up in your mailbox.

    I won’t even get started on this issue because it is something I have been praying about for the American church for over 7 years. I get so worked up about this corporate model and the “fruit” that it produces that I can’t talk about it without getting really intense. So, I won’t.

    Kudos on saying the word. May you say it more and more in the days ahead.

  25. chainsbroken2x says:

    Gayle presented a preliminary investigation to the top 3 at GFA. According to one of those top 3, Gayle was rebuffed for what was in it. 80% of it was considered garbage by the top 3 and they rationalized that Gayle probably wasn’t “walking in the Spirit” anymore. Amazingly, Gayle had a change of heart at some point since his final statement given to the Diaspora (KP forwarded it to all current staff at the time including present board members) totally dismissed all their concerns. He was able to determine that without interviewing even one of the Diaspora. Even current staff at the time were told by KP that they may be interviewed by Gayle as he spent time at the compound doing part of his so called investigation. The current staff at the time were placing many hopes for change on Gayle speaking with them confidentially. Sadly that never happened. When I asked one of the top 3 why current staff were not interviewed I was told because “that would be nothing but a witch hunt”. Gayle owes an apology to all former staff, donors and many volunteers who are also hurting through this. I wonder now if Gayles preliminary report was more on target than his final findings. Please Mr. Erwin, release to the public your preliminary findings.

    On a side note: One of the current leaders at GFA has refused to teach through Gayle’s book “Jesus Style” because he says GFA no longer lives it. That book is taught as part of the School of Discipleship curriculum.

  26. Uriahisaliveandwell says:

    Does anyone know if the “School of Discipleship” originates or is the same as the CC School of Discipleship? Also, are any of their missionaries, short or long term out of the CC School (s) of Discipleship?

  27. Uriahisaliveandwell says:

    Does or did any CC Pastors, or other leader within CC teach in the GFA School of Discipleship here in the USA or abroad? If so, who were they?

  28. The Dude says:

    You can see this kind of rot throughout much of American parachurch ministries these days.All the screaming about God’s coming judgements on America …of course we know where it’s going to begin.

  29. Erunner says:

    I viewed the videos linked to in #15 and I went to Teen Mania’s website to see that one of their endorsements is from KP Yohannon. That alone should have raised a ton of red flags.

    It’s scary that many who would scream for justice for these terribly abused kids won’t listen to the truth of GFA.

    All of these people and ministries who are exposed as a cancer to the church somehow for the most part come through unscathed when all is said and done.

    Those videos are four years old. I’m astonished these folks are still in business. If I recall correctly the cost for these kids to go to these camps was 7 or 8 thousand dollars.

    I feel like I need to regroup after watching those videos.

  30. Erunner says:

    Teen Mania has been noted as one of the most influential ministries of the 21st century in this glowing article in Christianity Today a few months ago

    http://www.teenmania.com/christianity-today-article-for-first-time-youths-acquire-the-fire-in-myanmar/

  31. Erunner says:

    Check out the endorsements for Acquire The Fire. Stunning….

    http://www.acquirethefire.com/endorsements/

  32. Erunner says:

    Michael, what am I missing??

  33. Michael says:

    Erunner,

    I don’t know what to tell you.
    I’ve been pounding this road for too long.

    The Teen Mania founder has a warrant out for his arrest….but that will get blamed on either Satan or bloggers.

  34. Erunner says:

    I’ve posted stuff about Hillsong running a ministry for girls battling anorexia and they told these poor girls they needed an exorcism. The harm they did was terrible yet Hillsong is as strong as ever.

    Seeing this garbage hits me square in the gut. Who else is kissing KP’s ring?? I couldn’t do what you do. It drains me emotionally.

  35. I always got a kick out of “Jesus Style” — as if we are to follow some example Jesus sets. This is the problem in American Evangelicalism in general and I found in CC in particular. Jesus is trotted out as our friend and / or our life coach … very little Jesus is our savior.

  36. open eyes says:

    I find the GFA and Teen Mania stories deeply disturbing. I am so heartbroken over reading these stories. What authority gives them the right to treat others like they did? Where is the Holy Spirit in their organizations? It all looks like a “christian” military training camp which is never found in scripture. I wasn’t aware of all this until coming to blogs like this and WT. Why aren’t more Christian calling this out and saying this is not how the Bible wants the body to behave? The church has so many secrets and I don’t like that.

    God bless those that are speaking up and trying to be that Watchman on the wall. Thank you for doing the right thing.

  37. once a cc guru says:

    # 36 Why aren’t more Christian calling this out and saying this is not how the Bible wants the body to behave?

    Repeat: “There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see”

  38. charles says:

    Why are Calvary’s still having speak at conferences and services?

    http://www.servant.org/schedule.php

  39. Em says:

    some people think that “when in Rome do as the Romans do” is from the Scriptures…
    as i read of these men, i suspect that they have distorted 1Cor 9 to mean the above – dunno, tho, do i?

  40. filbertz says:

    I’m convinced the corporate model is fashioned after an out-house.

  41. Mr Jesperson says:

    I have worked inside two Corporate International “Ministries.” I failed to be impressed by them. They are clearly worldliness dressed up in a religious robe. They are not biblical and the fruit produced looks nothing like the fruit of the Spirit. When I see people who are pastors or board members defending them, I cringe. I keep thinking of Jesus words about the blind leading the blind.
    Three cheers to you Michael for posting up such a strongly worded blog. If I had a blog I would do this as well. These leaders are so stinking Pharisaical devouring widows houses and committing evil in the name of God. I simply cannot stand it! And one of the reasons I do not like the Moses model is because the Pharisees claimed to be following it woo.

  42. Em says:

    #40 – no, don’t think so… it is fashioned after a modern, tile and porcelain facility with every attempt to disguise its contents 🙂 🙂 🙂 sorry, just couldn’t resist

  43. Pineapple Head says:

    Wow…looking at the endorsers of ATF blew my mind. Either they truly approve of the TM ministry, or they are painfully ignorant. Which, if due to ignorance, seems strange that you would endorse something you don’t know about.

    @ MLD, I agree with you that many people endear themselves to Jesus as a life coach character, but I do see scripture pointing to Him as our example or model. 1 Peter 2:21-24 for example. Just curious about your comment @ #35.

  44. Surfer51 says:

    Filbertz you cracked me up.

  45. Piney,
    You are right, however… I don’t think life coach Jesus is preached as “follow me and die.”

    No, life coach Jesus is preach in the terminology of What Would Jesus Do?

  46. Sinner and Saint says:

    MLD – “Life Coach Jesus” I’m stealing that for sure…hahahaha

  47. Ixtlan says:

    Interesting read.

    @25
    So, it sounds like Pastor Gayle uncovered some things that was rebuffed by the heads of state at GFA and he rewrote his tune. Quite the bus driver!

    I love the “your not walking in the Spirit anymore ” line. It has been the mainstay of accusation and control for many many years.

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