Like Father In Law, Like Son In Law…

You may also like...

35 Responses

  1. Paige says:

    Yes. Great observation…. and apparently, so true…. Thanks

  2. Michael says:

    I wish I could claim this insight was mine…but I thanked the person who gave it to me profusely. 🙂

  3. Paige says:

    Nothing new under the sun…..

  4. Col46 says:

    I wonder how history will look back on this 50 years from now

  5. stephen says:

    I was wondering when someone would notice this FACT!

  6. Michael says:


    I’m slow these days… 🙂

  7. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I am not taking sides but we need to be careful that we do not accept too easily Chuck’s evaluation of “stodgy ways and their desire to control and manage every part of another mans ministry.”

    They may have been doing it correctly and perhaps Chuck was a big enough butt head that he had what Zig Ziglar called ‘stinkin thinkin.’

  8. Kevin H says:


    I don’t think Michael’s article or any of the commenters are arguing for the rightness (or wrongness) of Smith/Brodersen’s approach.

    It only seems as if the ironies are being pointed out.

  9. Michael says:

    I’m simply using the CC interpretation of the event…the reality may have been different.

  10. Steve Wright says:

    FWIW – Pastor Chuck left his denomination. Alone. That takes character, to leave a job and paycheck because you have convictions you believe the Lord wants you to follow.

    That is far different from men throughout history (including the present day) who just change the name, affiliation, or denomination on their existing church ministry and keep going the next Sunday without missing a beat.

  11. Duane Arnold says:


    Ironic, yes… but more importantly, it is truth telling. I think it is important to remember that there was a Chuck Smith before CCCM and what he experienced (whether in the CC version or in the more complex version) shaped his attitude towards ministry, theology and leadership style. I think this “formative” part of the story is often forgotten. His son-in-law may be a bit more “clued in” to this other part of Chuck and it may be part of what has informed him in the decisions he is making.

    All individuals and institutions carry baggage – seen and unseen. Once in a while, it’s worth unpacking a bit of that baggage and seeing if it is still relevant to life and ministry. I truly believe that this is part of what is going on at present…

  12. Michael says:


    Thank you…I think it’s in the unpacking of the baggage that we are able to move forward in real freedom and bleed by the Spirit.

    I don’t know if that will happen here, but I know that it has proven true in my own life.

  13. Duane Arnold says:

    Yes, and when we don’t unpack and examine the baggage it can limit our perception of what is happening here and now.

    I remember an older friend/pastor who had come out of the Assemblies of God tradition. His youth pastor had brought in Larry Norman (early days) to do a concert. The older man didn’t really understand what Larry was doing but sensed his charisma on stage. He turned to me and said, “If he cut his hair and straightened up, just think what he could do raising money for missions…” I gestured to the 800 kids in the auditorium and said, “Pastor, I think this is a mission”. He looked at me with a stunned expression, nodded and said, “Sorry, sometimes what we carry from the past prevents us from seeing what God is doing in the present”.

    I’ve carried that with me…

  14. UnCCed says:

    And he (Chuck) repeated (it’s truly sad the ignorance many have that he started) the Caesar-model of church governance.
    Thus began a loooong period, hopefully soon to come to close, or at least wane drastically of “leaders” who couldn’t lead in humility, having “visions” to “start” (most just rip-off others from other ministries), then reap their fruit when another “leader” does it to them.
    I’ve personally witnessed or heard first-hand this occurring several times-in fighting later claimed by them as their “vision.” If you doubt me just attend a CC for a while, especially in SoCal. In just a few years you’ll find loads of “leaders,” “being called” to the next surf spot-ooops, I meant where they have a “burden.”
    Well, THIS debacle can’t be hid, spun, or whatever version, however Christianeezed it may be.
    Both sides are claiming “God’s will,” willfully forgetting all the other times in history where two sides used the same pattern they now follow, which the rest of us bearing the shame.
    The other irony which hurts to see, seriously, because it hurts Jesus, is to see these guys invent persecution where none truly exists, hurt each other, then by proxy the body, whom none of these guys died for. Truly sad.
    When I imagine them on their $400 smart phones calling each other to strategize on their next volley, when widows and children just down the freekin’ street don’t have food, I hang my head.
    On a positive note, it’s nice to finally see “the movement” not blame “the homos” or Dems. HEY! We might be making progress!
    : )

  15. Babylon's Dread says:

    Do you guys think Chuck Smith had any clue at all that his departure from Four Square would lead to what CC became?

    I don’t. I think he was leaving a group that embarrassed and offended him in hope of finding peace of mind.

    That he fathered a movement at 39 was beyond his and our comprehension.

    What is to come from the current split will not parallel beyond what has been said IMO. Still, I wish him every blessing.

  16. covered says:

    As an extension of UnCCed’s comment, I wonder what caliber of message the self appointed leaders of CCA can provide with all of the strategizing, manipulating and behind the doors meetings that must be involved in planning a take over?

    Has anyone considered the victims? The unsuspecting congregations who just want to hear God’s Word.

    I was thinking today how absurd it would be if I informed the congregation that effective immediately, I will be spending countless hours pursuing the take over of a dead man’s work. Included in the pursuit, is the slandering of anyone who doesn’t agree or wants to do it my way… This is absolutely insane!

  17. Steve Wright says:

    Spot on @15, Dread.

    The guy was hoping to have enough just to feed his growing family back in the day…he was a nobody, with no following, period.

  18. JD says:

    The Moses model is certainly the most efficient from the “pastor’s perspective” (pun intended). What is required for it to work is humility. Moses was quite possibly the most humble man ever to lead. Numbers 12:3.

  19. Corby says:

    I was thinking along the same lines. Brian is essentially doing what Chuck did. Also, sort of a reversal of what happened with Vineyard. Whereas Vineyard left CC, I think Brian is cutting off CCA to go be its own thing.

    CCCM doesn’t stand for Calvary Chapel Chuck’s Monument.

    Did anyone else catch that Costa Mesa tweaked their statement of faith, probably for the new CCGN? I don’t have the old one to compare, but if anything, it just reinforces as true what CCA et al are saying is false.

  20. Michael says:


    I haven’t looked…but I will.

  21. Michael says:

    There’s no statement on eschatology…all hell will break loose now… 🙂

  22. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Perhaps they have decided they aren’t going in no damn rapture. 😉

  23. pstrmike says:


    now THAT, was funny!

  24. Potatoehead says:

    Now let’s take a look at another side of the scenario.

    What if Brian were majorly into corporal punishment and beat his kids?

    And what if his wife has “Stockholm syndrome?”

    And what if he has off shore bank accounts in the Cayman Islands that are full of syphoned funds from non profits?

    And what if he shielded a friend he has known most of his life from rape charges of a 12 year old girl by taking him to England?

    What if within the inner circle these things and more were known?

    And what if the split came about because of this?

    Easy for outsiders to come up with what seems like logical conclusions isn’t it?

    None of us know the full story at all.

    But the major players do.

    Like assistant Romain loved to say, when you point at someone else, three fingers always point back at you.

    As Chuck would say from his pulpit,” The truth will out its self.”

    We need to sit back and never jump to easy conclusions.

    Let Michael continue to gather the facts from his reliable sources and let he and his team fact check before we start running in a direction as if all the facts are in and on the table.

    I believe that more information will bleed out to the grapevine soon enough.

    But until then let’s not jump to the easy road conclusions.


    Hear both sides of the issues, knowing that there is always a back story we don’t know about just yet.

  25. Steve Wright says:

    If those things were true then they would be cowards and not leaders. You don’t wait 3 years to distance yourselves over relative trivia (and say as much) if the real reason is moral failing, illegality, and sin enablement.

    Paul withstood Peter to the face, and told the Church that he did so, and why it was necessary to do so, giving the details.

    Paul was a leader. (And Peter was too)

  26. Steve Wright says:

    And as an aside…the pastors of the movement are being told by their CCA leadership to ACT…now.

    Not wait.

    Therein lies the rub…

  27. Corby says:

    Michael, here is the link I’m looking at.

    Unless I’m mistaken, aren’t these statements about eschatology?

    We believe the church will be delivered from the “hour of trial” which will come upon all who dwell on the earth, being “caught up” in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air (the Rapture). (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, 1 Corinthians 15:51-55, Revelation 3:10)

    We believe the saints will return with Christ to the earth, at His Second Coming, to rule and reign with Him. (Jude 1:14, Revelation 19:11-16, Revelation 20:4)

    We believe in the pre-millennial return of Christ, to sit upon the throne of David and rule over the house of Jacob (Israel), and the entire cosmos, forever. (Revelation 20:1-6, Luke 1:31-33, Isaiah 9:6-7)

  28. Michael says:

    I was looking at CCCM…

  29. Steve Wright says:

    For clarity before I go, I certainly agree with the wisdom of hearing all sides, not jumping to conclusions and so forth. I have been burned by being on the receiving end of that and know it can be avoided if people are willing to seek truth.

    I also recognize that much of the outward “reasons” are a smokescreen for the real underlying reasons that have been festering for 3+ years.

  30. Corby says:

    Ah. Well, according to a tweet from Brian that is the CCCM statement as well. Perhaps the web peoples have done their work yet.

  31. Potatoe head says:

    Thanks for adding clarity to what I was trying to point out Pastor Steve!

    We as Christians love one another, or at least we are admonished to do as such.

    Let’s try and be honest and fair and give both sides of the issue a fair shake before taking sides and running with what we decide is factual before all of the verified facts come to the table.

    Michael is a great journalist in that he will not post hearsay.

    He does his foot work before posting I am sure.

    “By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

    Love dictates that we act with noble character towards one another and not jump to judgemental conclusions.

  32. Papias says:

    I have heard Chuck speak on the reasons for parting ways with his former denom, and I seem to recall that Kay played in Chucks decision to physically stay in SoCal, when the denom would move them every few years. (They sat in their car looking at the kids at HB and Kay said she didn’t want to leave).

    And that Chuck had a couple years worth of sermons and was getting near the point of having to do something different. Then his reading of Halleys Bible Handbook caused him to start teaching from 1 John.

    Al this to say that there was more than one reason for Chuck to want to strike out on his own apart from the denom.

  33. Steve Wright says:

    Except they went to Corona. Which ain’t no HB believe me.

  34. Potatoe head says:

    Actually Corona of Chuck’s day was nothing like the Corona that we see today.

    I used to go horse back riding there way back when, so i know Corona.

    In other words Steve is spot on.

  35. TombstoneBlues says:

    As for the Moses Model one might note Moses was not allowed to see the Promised Land

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Discover more from Phoenix Preacher

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading