Linkathon 10/3
Let’s hear directly from a Christian stay-at-home dad.
Denny Burk comments on Christianity Today‘s list of 50 women to watch.
Sovereign Grace Ministries has had the first public service of its newest church in its new headquarters of Louisville, Kentucky. And the SGM Survivors and Refuge blogs are all over it.
Wartburg Watch: “this post by Sarah Flashing is the opening salvo in the “Rachel Held Evans is a heretic” campaign. They have chosen a woman to lead the attack.”
Wartburg Watch: “this post by Sarah Flashing is the opening salvo in the “Rachel Held Evans is a heretic” campaign. They have chosen a woman to lead the attack.”
Huh?
I think these ladies have some very good things to say. But in between and around those good things is a lot of mind-reading – or should I say heart-reading – and the motives that are somehow discerned are always bad. Feeds the scandal hungry (a description I can’t help but apply to myself as well), but doesn’t, to me, speak of trustworthiness.
Sad, because the good stuff over there is good.
TO THE MODERATOR: Is it worth posting my previous comment? Probably not. Unless you personally think it is really worthwhile, just delete it if you would. Thanks.
http://rachelheldevans.com/ask-a-stay-at-home-dad-response
That’s the actual link for the stay at home dad interview.
who stays at home to do the domestic chores (including child care)? – my aging logic says that it isn’t a black or white decision anymore … and it isn’t a question of who makes the most money, either, i.e., could be that mom’s job brings in a bigger paycheck and then the question shifts to, does dad make enough to support his family? my fall back position is: dad makes the living and mom makes it worth living … but the social structure of the times we are living in now are close to being “survival times” and call for individuals, particularly Christians, to weigh their own circumstances … pastor who want to preach on God’s design need to think more like Christ, not rationalizing away absolutes, but showing compassion for what is beyond their people’s control … IMHO
glad to have something distracting to think about this am … lol
The apocalyptic scenarios link is broken… =)
Nomans, it worked when first posted and I read it last night.
Hopefully, it will stay broken. Guys who think like Fred Clark are more dangerous to the future of this country than any Obama policy.
The SAHD article was pretty good. My wife is a SAHM and I would have no issue changing roles if she could get a job that would pay. But my transition to being a SAHD would be as hard as this guy’s. He has many good points to ponder, the least of which would be “what do people in the church think”?
(I write this while working from home while my wife goes to a job interview.) 😉
I can’t read the article about the stay at home dad, it looks like the link goes 404 – but, and perhaps it is explained… Is there a difference between a Christian stay at home vs a Jewish or atheist?
The new developments of Sovereign Grace is another sad commentary of the body of Christ in America, that loves their superstars. They have checked their brain at the door and they have an imbalanced view of grace and holiness. No wonder the world isn’t interested in Jesus, because the church isn’t.
From the “right wing story;
“But not everyone understands that it’s just a game. And not everyone understands that these over-the-top predictions and lies are just role-playing aspects of that game.”
This should be on the book cover of every Joel Rosenberg book.
Re: the stay at home dad and gender roles….35 years ago, when we first became Christians, my husband and I thought we were doing everything wrong. I was the one who balanced the check book, paid the bills, etc. All of the sudden, we thought that in order to be a ” good Christian couple” Hubby had to do all these tasks…..well they never got done. I think maybe we picked up on this from folks who had attended the Gotthard seminars, but couldn’t swear to that. But we picked it up somewhere and it was a heavy yoke upon us. My husband would have rather gone to the dentist than have to sit at the kitchen table in the evening and balance the check book and pay bills. Yet, it was something I was happy to do and it was no burden to me at all. Over a period of a few tough, and guilt-ridden years, we finally came to understand that God probably didn’t give a hoot who paid the bills and balanced the check book. What He cared about was that we loved one another and we worked together, as a team to use the gifts and abilities the Lord had given us. We didn’t have be just like our Christian neighbours….we could be us…a unique couple who loves one another and loves Jesus. Wow!! What a burden was lifted from our shoulders. I have shared that with lots of other couples over the years and you would be surprised at the looks of relief we have seen. 🙂
political games? – NPR was addressing debate tactics this a.m. when i was half awake, but one point registered with me – the public really doesn’t know what’s going on as they watch political debates … deflecting and dancing around things that are uncomfortable or complicated to confront?
Nonnie, if we step back and look at the workings of a household objectively, yours and your hubby’s solution is the logical one IMO
This is the kind of political slander- lies- science fiction- hysteria- paranoia- that certain of my relatives obsess over. It’s almost convinced me that the Republicans are so CRAZY that I had better vote for Obama. (Almost convinced me but I won’t.) And as it’s starting to look like Obama might win the intensity of the craziness is accelerating.
Maybe if Romney were to say at the debate tonight: “By the way, all those crazy lies my followers have been sending you about concentration camps and military dictatorships? None of it is true, please disregard all such propaganda, it’s all lies generated by some of my over-zealous supporters” If he were to say that, my respect for him would go up several notches. He needs to say it publicly and LOUDLY. But I doubt if he does because he’s behind in the polls and he needs every vote he can get, especially the votes of the little old ladies who think Obama plans to poison them.
I was able to fix the SAHD link, but let me know if there are any more problems.
The Fred Clark link issue seems to be on their end. I saw the error message, then the correct article when clicking on the link a third time.
To the first commenter: every first-time commenter automatically goes into moderation. Once approved, you shouldn’t have any problems posting to the site. Except when the spam filter decides to act up 🙂
I have told you all before about my elderly friend whose mental health has deteriorated because of right-wing talk radio. A few years ago she was poor but happy, thankful to God for every little mercy that came her way. She had a wonderful attitude about her situation and about her health, one that I hoped to emulate. Then she started listening to talk radio, and unfortunately, she believes everything she hears. Now, she has little hope for the future because Obama wants people like her dead and out of the way. Is she a little dizzy today? Ultimately, it’s Obama’s fault. Is her house a little messy today? It’s Obama’s fault that the hours of her caretaker have been cut. Half her conversation is about how Obama wants to turn the US into a Nanny state and the other half is about how Obama has cut her public assistance. She does not see the irony there. And all the while Rush Limbaugh is bloviating away in the background, making her discontent and resentful about her life, stealing her joy.
I see a direct cause and effect.
Who pays the bills? When we first got married, we had no bills. We wrote a check for rent (utilities included in the rent) and we wrote a check to the phone company.
We had no credit cards, not even gas cards. Not much to balance in the check book – life was simpler. 🙂
Xenia, I read plenty of conservative political blogs. I read the many, many comments. NOBODY says that nonsense. Romney has no obligation to address lunatics, nor does Obama (and there are some on the left too)
I will tell you who does say it. The same ones who have been saying the same things for decades. Certain so-called Christian newsletter writers that make a living off subscriptions to those who feed on this.
If you look, you will find these are the same people ten years ago suggesting Bush knew about 9/11 – that the Patriot Act was already written before the attack in order to remove freedom from gullible Americans.
When I first became a Christian, I read a few of these guys. I remember how they ripped on Clinton’s first two years. Then I thought after the 1994 Republican landslide they would be all happy. NOPE. The first issue was all about ‘the real Newt Gingrich’ and how he is no different than Clinton. All that matters is to bash whoever is in power using paranoid ideas about the USA becoming Nazi Germany.
Remember the Y2K hysteria and how the government was behind all that too?
It does not matter WHO is in charge. The guys talking concentration camps aren’t “Romney supporters” they are huge anti-government nutcases that have a Christian veneer that gives them a small audience, but one large enough to pay their bills while fleecing them.
NOBODY says that nonsense.<<<
Yeah, you're right, I made it all up.
I think the difference, AV, is that the internet has given all those crazy ideas a platform. They are terribly widespread now, as opposed to past years.
Xenia – I’ll trade you anecdotes. My Oklahoma grandmother, a lifelong Democrat who only listened to left wing talk radio, blamed Rush Limbaugh for the Oklahoma City bombing at our Thanksgiving table one year.
If his show was not on the air – the bombing would never have happened.
Of course, I personally was blamed for the death of Matthew Shepard by many people because I dared to say that homosexuality is not normal and not behavior God condones. THAT made me EQUALLY as liable in the eyes of certain people for that young man’s murder. (I guess if you had been with me you would have been blamed too – since I know that is your belief as well)
The blaming of peaceful free speech for the behavior of others sure seems to go against a lot of Scripture.
I guess some speech is ‘freer” than others, to take a twist from Animal Farm.
I think the debates are a waste of time. For the most part, their answers to questions will just be campaign slogans – so it is no more than just free campaign air time.
Second, are we voting for the best debater?
Third – technically, they are not really debates.
Xenia – You’re #19 is sad. I didn’t say you made it up. I wrote a lengthy discussion agreeing that such nonsense was out there.
I said nobody on mainstream political conservative boards speaks that nonsense. NOT that you made it up.
I give up. President Obama has given campaign speeches where he flat out says that if Republicans are elected it will lead to dirty air and water. They run commercials showing Paul Ryan pushing a wheelchair bound grandmother off a cliff.
And nobody bats a frickin’ eye.
As if a couple weeks of watching all this Islamic violence being blamed (falsely) on a youtube video wasn’t enough to wake people up to the way free speech is under attack. We have a link to a professing Christian taking a tragedy involving a very troubled individual who also has some tenuous connection to worry about a 2nd term Obama and THAT is justification to blame his crime on talk radio.
I have some free speech to prepare for tonight. Enjoy the day.
The gender conflicts are a lot more about maintaining control than issues of “heresy.” Besides, those “in control” get to label others heretics…it’s always been that way. I have steadily moved to an egalitarian position over the past few years, and from this vantage point I am dismayed at the boorish behavior demonstrated by many in the complimentarian camp. We may not have to share tents, but we’re all in the same campground.
AV is correct in stating that the folk who see disasters looming have been going non-stop for decades – no matter which political party is predominating they see government conspiring against good (particularly Christian) people – they may be right 😎
The blaming of peaceful free speech for the behavior of others sure seems to go against a lot of Scripture<<<
Got a verse?
I think any political discourse that leaves people angry and unthankful, like Xenia’s example, should be avoided and repented of, like the plague. I don’t care what your political stripe is. God’s Word is more than clear that we should be thankful in every situation and always. At that point, it’s becomes a spiritual issue between the individual and God.
Lutheran, yep.
All across America, thousands upon thousands of Americans have listened to lies about Obama and believe them. I imagine this is also happening in the liberal world but I never get paranoid letters and phone calls from liberals people so I can’t comment.
I don’t care how long this has been going on.
I don’t care that both sides do it.
I don’t care that some of you have never personally seen it.
I don’t care if find this to be acceptable Christian behavior.
It’s wrong.
Agree with your #28, Xenia. I remember when I was growing up in the 60s., There was kind of an unwritten rule that in polite company, you didn’t discuss religion, politics or sex. And my parents were very average middle classers, not rich or anything.
In opening these floodgates, I believe we’ve devolved and things are much worse now than then. Imagine someone committing suicide because someone picked on them via the Internet. This has happened and sad to say it most likely will happen again, I think we’re a lonelier society.
There’s an old saying — when all is said and done, there’s a lot more said than done. Or, talk is cheap. It can also degrade when there’s a lack of mutual respect and demeanor.
I am a complimentarian for sure. I couldn’t imagine letting my wife got to work while I stay home. God created us men with physical strength and I think that would be a waste to not utilize it. Most women I know ain’t havin their Husband stay at home while they work.
We were planning a trip to visit relatives in a state in the South this fall but because of the bizarre things a large number of my relatives believe and activity push, of the “You can’t possibly love Jesus if you don’t vote for Romney” stripe and the Art Bell-like conspiracy theories they all embrace as Gospel truth, we decided to cancel our trip because frankly, it would have been a nightmare. Even if we kept of lips zipped tightly shut the entire time it would have been a continual verbal assault. (And my husband and I *are* conservatives, not liberals.)
We did visit some relatives in a northern state this summer and I was shocked and dismayed at what they believed and loudly proclaimed. To keep the visit pleasant I had to practically glue my lips shut.
I had to unfriend a cousin from FB because she left off attacking my politics (actually, my lack of politics) and began attacking me personally for being such an immoral person for not voting for Romney.
I used to love my weekly visits with my elderly friend, now I dread them. Before I can even step foot in the door the anti-Obama rant begins.
And it’s not just my relatives but I am not even going to bore you with the crazy emails I get from other people, all Christians. Really hateful stuff that no Christian should ever say about anyone.
All these people are scared to death. They really think the US will collapse if Romney doesn’t win the election. They are obsessed, resentful, scared and discontented. Hating Obama has taken up so much of their thought-life that it has almost become a mental illness in a few cases. This is all fueled by the media, entertainers who spread this poison to feed their listeners’ rage and paranoia addictions.
I notice at my church no one talks about politics during the after-service potluck at all. I am very thankful for this.
Have faith in God.
There’s a certain quite conservative Lutheran synod. Most of the people I’ve met are conservative in most or all ways. A friend of one of my sons who grew up in it made the observation, “You can tell people in this group because they’re usually angry.”
It makes me sad to think that someone’s eternal destiny might be in the balance because someone’w witness to Christ conflated ANY type of politics with the Eternal Gospel.
The Wartburg Watch link
“We desire not to compromise a core belief, that the leadership roles of Senior Pastor and Elder are an office of the church to which only men may serve. Therefore we must be aware that anything written about women will have, as its underlying premise, a restriction of women’s roles in the church.”
The above quote is supported by scripture so I don’t know why anyone takes issue with it
I think the “God will never give you more than you can handle” myth is based upon a perversion of I Cor 10:13 which promises a potential escape from any temptation…
I hate such nonsense… wait let me go read the article … he probably says as much
I talk politics mostly in my own head. A couple of guys at church talk politics, but nothing in an animated fashion. We stopped a couple of groups (one pro life and another, voter guides) from passing out leaflets on cars.
At work, no one really talks politics – although one gal was putting little American flags at each desk. I asked her if I missed a holiday and she replied “no, we’re Republicans here so I am giving out flags.
But then in my business, we’re pretty fickled – you know, when bad news comes out, rates drop and we do more loans. 🙂
***I am a complimentarian for sure. I couldn’t imagine letting my wife got to work while I stay home. God created us men with physical strength and I think that would be a waste to not utilize it.***
Because physical strength is somehow necessary to work? I guess that explains the body-builder physiques of all the top money-makers in the country.
J2,
Don’t you have some housework to do? 😉
Mld, thanks for laugh, I needed that today.
“You can’t possibly love Jesus if you don’t vote for Romney”
What cracks me up is during the Republican nomination process they said the same thing about:
Rick Santorum
Newt Gingrich
Ron Paul
Rick Perry
Herman Cain
After they all got picked off one by one, only then did the Evangelical support for Romney start.
Though I think the ground work was laid a few years back with the embracing of Glen Beck.
can’t pass up a chance to comment on MLD and j2 above … housework takes muscle and grit and … i think that’s part of an old song? … it’s not who has the most
also, somehow the point got lost way up there, i think … Obama may be taking the hits right now – for lots of reasons – but these guys who think that hollering about it will stop the sky from falling have been doing so for a long time now, so … maybe it’s working? 😆
I got dinner already made. I’m just waiting for Rob to get home so I can do the final heating up. Housework: Accomplished! 😛
#40 amended: it’s not about who has the most *muscle* (& yes, i know MLD was joking)
J2,
Well don’t forget to be waiting for him with a beer in hand.
My wife is tougher than me – and she has been my work boss for the past 15 yrs.
Im not saying it takes physical strength to be a paper pusher but how can a Man look at himself in the mirror when he stays at home while his wife works. Maybe it’s a cultural thing, I know most hispanic women would not put up with their men staying at home. Doesn’t the bible also say if you don’t work you don’t eat, by the sweat of our brow.
or if a man doesn’t provide for those of his own household he is worse than an unbeleiver
Hate to break it to you, Solomon — but not everyone see it like you do. In such black and white terms. Sometimes and often in today’s America, both have to work to put food on the table for the kids. That’s just one for instance. I’m sure there are many others.
I think the “spirit” of how roles are meted out are at least as important if not more so than
rigidly prescribing who does what.
I know both have to work sometimes, I just don’t think a physically capable man should stay at home
***Im not saying it takes physical strength to be a paper pusher but how can a Man look at himself in the mirror when he stays at home while his wife works***
Are you saying that staying home and taking care of your children is not worthwhile enough for a man to do? Because that’s what it sounds like.
***Maybe it’s a cultural thing, I know most hispanic women would not put up with their men staying at home.***
Then in those families that would probably not be a good working arrangement. But what about in families where the women are happy to work, and where the men are happy to stay home? If it his mutually rewarding what’s wrong with it?
***Doesn’t the bible also say if you don’t work you don’t eat, by the sweat of our brow.***
So women shouldn’t be allowed to eat in your view because staying home and taking care of the children is not considered work?
Sol Rod, don’t mess with J2 – she’s a mama bear now and will eat you alive. 🙂
Good to see you jlo. I hope that things are going well for you these days.
Hah hah, MLD. You know I would have had this same argument whether or not I was a mom. When have I ever not argued over statements I thought were sexist? 😉
covered, hanging on by the skin of my teeth. but hanging on none the less.
old school bent by new rules here … IMHO – if a man could find work that supports his family (who is that, BTW? a wife? children? a mother? an aged father? sisters? younger brothers? nieces? young nephews? maids and so on … that quote from 1 Timothy is not referring to supporting your wife and children …) and, for whatever rationale, decided not to? well, that’s wrong … BUT what if the wife or other family members can find employment and he can’t? happens a lot in the economy of our modern world … we aren’t tribal anymore …
I know this isn’t the prayer thread, but this is seriously urgent. Please, everyone, pray for Pastor John Duncan and his wife Debbie. They are in dire need of physical and financial help. If you remember Dead Man Walking from the early days of this blog, you know how blessed we were to have him impart his words of wisdom to us. Now he’s at the end of his rope in so many ways. Please pray, and if you are so inclined, I believe that fasting would be more than appropriate right now.
I will pray for them Kevin give them my email address, seekingsomepeacenow@yahoo.com so I can send them some support. I dont have much but what I can offer I will.
The sovereign grace ministry article was interesting I found myself attracted to Pastor Mahaney’s sermon. Back in the day I sought out sermons that reminded me what a God hating piece of human filth that I am and always will be. I was an affront to a holy God, even before my great great great great ^100 grand parents were born I was a personal affront to God, a stench in His holy nostrils. Now maybe I was saved, that was a big maybe, but God would not kill me forever and that was good news. But I still was a worthless wretched soulless creatine looking to manipulate God with each breath. In a strange sort of way I found great comfort / torment in that. It kept me in check and my world view secure. It was also a complete lie and lacked any semblance of reality whatsoever. I can remember begging God to kill me, loud and passionately just to show me He existed. I am very glad He showed the grace to help me move past my anger at Him and myself and those I think wronged me.
I don’t buy the argument that a Man cannot find work. There are plenty of occupations to be had that are not the traditional officed type. Cab driver, Process server etc. It’s all about hustle. I guess I have a different mentality, My grandfather grew up in Texas and was handicap from the age of 18 on as he got a rare bacterial diease and they had to remove part of his hip. He still took care of his brothers and sisters and worked his whole life full time up until a few years ago. Too many of the pansy men of this generation would’ve cried and complained and refused to go out an wrok. But see in my grandpa’s generation Women actually gave birth to Men not little feminine boys that are to be in touch with their feelings. My grandpa taught me to work hard and not complain and that any man that does not work for what he gets is not worth salt. My grandfather has no sympathy for any man that does not work as he has overcome so many obstacles in his life from my Great Grandfather killing the Sheriif in thier town leading to them getting blackballed and having to raise his brothers and sisters on his own. He also worked his whole life with a handicap that left one leg shorter thatn the other. He refused to take government handouts and worked his butt off his whole life even when he was well past retirement age.
“Hah hah, MLD. You know I would have had this same argument whether or not I was a mom. When have I ever not argued over statements I thought were sexist? ”
So it’s sexist to day that Men on average are stronger than women? Seems like we are hyper sensitive or trying real hard to find sexism/racism where it doesn’t exist
I have no problem with women working and it is probably needed in these times that both spouses work in a lot of families however even if a woman makes more than her man the man should still work , simply get a babysitter. A man does not have the motherly instincts to be a home care taker the way a woman does.
Sorry, I don’t agree with you Sol Rod. No babysitter can take care of my children the way my husband or I could. I would much rather a child be with one of his/her parents than a sitter. Both work…..one works OUTSIDE and home and one works INSIDE the home. Both parents WORK and both of those roles are needed and should be valued. I agree that the “norm” would probably be for Mama to stay home with the children and Daddy work outside of the home…… but if she makes more money and is happy to work outside the home and earn, and Daddy is happy to be the caregiver and keep the house….then God bless them!!
Christians have been granted tremendous liberty by God to live, work, and parent in the manner they see fit…why don’t Christians afford each other the same privilege? I imagine we want to second-guess the wisdom of God & correct that oversight on His part…that divine mistake called grace.
What Nonnie says makes good sense. It kind of shocks me, Solomon, that you would think it would be better for a child to be raised by a babysitter instead of by one of the parents if that parent were the father and not the mother. How does that make any sense? Surely it is healthier for a child to have his or her main care-giver be a parent instead of a hired person.
insofar as Sol Rod says that a man shouldn’t shirk or hide behind a woman, i agree with him and i also say ‘amen’ to Nonnie’s point that Papa will nurture a child better than any hired babysitting service (a few Nanny types excepted) – that said as long as a man can support his family, even if the wife would bring in bigger $$s (which probably means a challenging job that would not leave much of her for her family life); even if – live on what Papa makes and love him for being there
either way, love and respect each other – IMHO, nothing improves a child’s view of his home more than parents showing respect to each other … a complaining fault-finding parent sends a message to the child: “what’s going on and what is taught here isn’t to be trusted, let alone respected”
whew! apologies for the soap box
SolRod: “A man does not have the motherly instincts to be a home care taker the way a woman does.” If you knew my wife and I, you’d change your tune. We obliterate the common teachings about the differences between men and women. If I didn’t have to work, I would be at home with my girls, and I would take better care of them than any nanny or babysitter. I’m good at brushing hair, helping to pick out clothes, and kissing boo boos. And I make a mean potroast.
You can call me one of the “pansy men of this generation” if you want, but I’m still man enough to kick your a$$.
CK, you and my son, the ex-marine, both … he’s been more of a mother to the children than their mother, who is handicapped with some serious mental problems
kids notice and men like you fellas are heroes to your children – big time
just sayin – cuz i can 🙂
p.s. to my #66 – yikes … i was not implying that Mrs. CK is anything like my ex-DIL … my apologies, if it reads that way
Kevin could you get the right email address to deadman walking its brianinsj@gmail.com my other one blew up and I cant get access. sorry about that thanks.
Em, it came out just fine!
brian, I sent you an email with DMW’s info.
Sol Rod .
“A man does not have the motherly instincts to be a home care taker the way a woman does.”
You referred to men and women in general.
You failed to mention the God created relational roles of Father and Mother. Father and Mother working together. Not a mere man nor a mere natural woman. You see you forgot the key distinction in parenting.
Father’s are called to love. Love nurtures, love provides, love sacrifices, love seeks out help from others. A Father can remain at home and work together with his wife to see that their children are cared for, nurtured and provided for.
Be a well developed biblical person and realize love goes beyond mere psychological/social distinctions between men and women.
Sol Rod. A woman can stay at home and “work” in the raising of children and work hard in maintaining a household; running it in an efficient manner that benefits the family economically.
Furthermore, she could also utilize skills or desires in a home based business to supplement their income and stimulate her gifts.
That role can also be reversed and the man could fill that slot if needed to.
Such a man would be working, and would also see to it that his household is provided for.
He is allowing for and participating in an order of work and vocation that meets the needs of his own household.
Sol Rod. I am all for your example of doing whatever it takes in terms of work. I have worked quite a range of jobs outside of the skill sets I am strong at that give greater satisfaction and also supply much greater earnings.
I have found men in this economy, who after 20-30 years of finding an easy stream of abundant money will not step out for a few hours at night to work as a security guard or pizza deliverer or whatever because it will not guarantee them a steady stream of income at the level they believe they deserve.
They will not go meet with a vocational counselor for the same reasons. So they mope, complain and pray.