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31 Responses

  1. I agree with Chaplain Mike’s comment – and I think it is why I don’t bother much with the shenanigans of MD or others.

    Chaplain Mike said “Some of my fundamental opinions haven’t changed. I still think the ecclesiologies and systems in which pastors like Mark Driscoll function are deeply flawed and I can’t see myself ever recommending a church like Mars Hill. I also continue to have a number of disagreements with Driscoll’s teaching and theology. I wonder if we will see any changes there.”

    I think the root of the problem with all of these churches that are always in turmoil and under the spotlight is their ecclesiologies, and error prone teachings and theologies.

    So, it will move from this MD problem to the next MD problem. It will also move from MD to the next guy.

  2. CrucifiED says:

    I’m starting to realize that getting over the stereotypes so many have of people who smoke MJ will be a much more difficult battle than getting the government to legalize it.

    And the worst of it will come from Christian sources who wonder why someone who uses MJ, or drinks, or fill in the blank… even needs this stuff when they have Jesus.

    Then comes the fear mongering as they compare you to your irresponsible young adult ways and warn how you’ll be checking out of life instead of living for Jesus.

    Basically, as every other response to legalistic debates the church has lost over the years they say, “Even if it is allowed, how could you or why would you if you have Jesus and are living for Him?”

    No matter how far we move away from the legalism many of us grew up with, the evangelistic manipulation just never seems to end.

  3. Paige says:

    Didn’t read the Links in order….read about Elisabeth Elliot first. I so admire her and am saddened about this illness she is dealing with, yet continues to surrender herself. What a gem her dear husband is.

    Mark Driscol. I simply couldn’t care less. He’s a popular sinner and an easy target. We’ve all made mistakes, public and private and we’re all growing and shuddering at choices made earlier in life. I guess I should only speak for myself….

    Two of my 3 sons smoke ‘herb’ daily. They are not believers in Jesus at this time, as far as I can tell. I am relieved that the legal ramifications of MJ are removed. One less ‘worry’… As the article pointed out, many legal substances are still just plain hard on the biological body, thus mind, Christian or not.
    My particular addiction is sugar and it is legal and may well kill me.

    OT atonement; I’ve heard all those explanations before. My current reading through the Bible, alternating books, OT then NT, has made me have a lot of ‘how could You” and “why do You” conversations with the OT God….and lots of “hallelujahs, but are You the same God” conversations with the NT God.

    Re the Sinner’s Prayer. I have read over and over in the Gospel of John this week that “Do you believe in the One God has sent?” is all that is needed to receive eternal life.

    I’m sick of church culture. I’m sick of add ons, ‘upgrades’, opinions and ‘theological’ disputes that result in one-upping, posturing and tearing down. IMO, we have no clue how things look from God’s perspective. The last shall be first. Huh?

    My heart breaks for the on going burden for Christine Scheller or any parent or loved one who lost a beloved to suicide. Those whom I personally know who have walked this path are permanently broken inside.

  4. The link “Support for Driscoll” is mislabeled. Why is it that if you see the guy making an attempt at apologizing – even repenting on his own level, that that is somehow support for the guy.

    Why can’t it just be I don’t want to throw bombs at the guy and will take a wait and see approach – vs judging each and every syllable of his statements as they are still coming out of his mouth?.

  5. filbertz says:

    saying you’re free to do something, but you shouldn’t, is not freedom. It is law. Law is all about should and shouldn’t. Freedom is about ‘can.’ When someone takes it upon themselves to determine what others should or shouldn’t do in matters of freedom, that person is 1. setting themselves up as an authoritative voice, 2. putting others in a role of compliance or obedience, 3. distorting the biblical message, and 4. placing others who choose differently into a different ‘class’ of christian…like “progressive.”

  6. Nonnie says:

    My heart aches for Christine Scheller and those who have lost loved ones to suicide.

  7. Josh Hamrick says:

    If you read the Wenatchee link, read his previous post as well. Both very good.

    I hope people stay away from the weed. I’ve got lifelong friends who have now been smoking the stuff for more than twenty years. Some of these guys used to be brilliant. Like, really brilliant. Now they are just sad. No guilt or bible verses or anything. I just think it kills your brain over time.

  8. Andy says:

    The KJV is the most read version? I’m not surprised by that at all. I’ve long been a KJV guy, starting back when I was teaching the Bible to a group, and the group all showed up with their 85 different “versions”, and none of them matched up, and they were all missing the blood of Jesus here, and the Trinity there, and the free gift of salvation there, and so on. And I read out of the KJV, and the discussion kept happening, why doesn’t my Bible say that?

    And that kind of research is everywhere on the internet, and I have watched people over the years that were very anti-KJV, do the research and become KJV people.

    Graham crackers used to promote homosexual couples? Haha. Did you know the true history of the graham cracker? They were invented by a “reverend” who said that eating them all bland in flavor and all, would cure teenagers from engaging in, ummm, “self abuse”. Very funny stuff.

  9. Josh Hamrick says:

    “85 different “versions”, and none of them matched up,”

    Why would you expect different versions to match up? There would be no reason to do a new version if you just translate everything the exact same way.

  10. Andy says:

    Josh wrote: “Why would you expect different versions to match up? There would be no reason to do a new version if you just translate everything the exact same way.”

    I don’t mean match up in word choice. I mean match up in content. Things like, the blood of Jesus missing from the verse. That to me is not matching up.

    If it says “went” or “goeth”, that’s the same thing. But when an entire phrase is missing, that’s another story.

  11. Andy,
    Have you ever considered that “the blood of Jesus” was added or interpolated into the KJV in error and that the modern translations through better and more complete transcripts along with better translational and language skills have corrected the error?

  12. Andy says:

    MLD, that’s all conjecture and speculation. You can’t prove anything you said, at all. None of that is provable. And neither can I prove what I said. I can only say, that when I started walking with Jesus Christ years ago, He led me to go get a Bible, and the KJV is what He led me to get. So I will trust Him, and not your words based on the words of man.

  13. You may want to look how the KJV handled 1 John 5:6-8 vs the modern translations.

    By golly them that new fangled version just ripped the trinity from the God’s Bible. 🙂

  14. Andy says:

    MLD, I know all about 1 John 5, and the arguments on both sides there. Which is why, as I said, the Lord led me to the KJV right off the bat, before I knew about any of this. After the arguments were put out there (and why anyone would want to argue about it, I have no idea, must be some agenda behind that), I went to the promise in James 1:5 and knew the Lord would confirm or deny the initial leading I had about these things, and the Lord confirmed that using the KJV is where I was supposed to be.

  15. Josh Hamrick says:

    Andy, I wouldn’t try to dissuade you from using the KJV. It is a fine translation. The archaic language can sometimes be tough to overcome, but if that doesn’t bother you, then KJV is perfect for you.

  16. Andy, I only brought it up because you made the comment about the newer versions as if there were a conspiracy to rip truth from the Bible.

    I use the KJV some myself -(1) when I am teaching a class of adults over 400 yrs old and (2) when the majority of my class speaks Elizabethan English. 🙂

  17. Andy says:

    “The archaic language can sometimes be tough to overcome”

    Actually I found the KJV easier to read than the NKJV or the NIV, just because the sentences are generally shorter, whereas the NIV goes off long in a lot of places. Everyone knows that “thy” is “your” and so on, so that’s not really hard to read. Everybody knows what they mean. It’s actually a great study aid, since the KJV differentiates between a singular “you” and a plural “you”, which only the classical English does (and Greek and Hebrew do), whereas modern English is just “you” for both, so that you can’t, with the new version alone apart from investigation, tell whether the speaker is speaking of a singular “you” or a plural “you”.

  18. Andy says:

    “Andy, I only brought it up because you made the comment about the newer versions as if there were a conspiracy to rip truth from the Bible”

    Well as you know, many do believe it is a conspiracy, and I don’t dismiss the possibility of it being a conspiracy, knowing that the enemy of our souls had as a first attack, “Hath God really said?”

    Some people have conspiracyphobia, but the Bible says that some conspiracies are true (Psalm 2:1-2).

  19. Josh Hamrick says:

    Well, Andy, I’m glad that’s worked out for you. I do find it cumbersome at times, and find myself focusing more on individual words, because of the unfamiliarity, rather than the flow of the passage. My 10 year old daughter, who is highly intelligent, finds the KJV impossible to read. She loves to read the NIrV. I love that she loves the bible.

  20. Jim says:

    While I think it should be legal, the problem with pot is that you can’t smoke it without getting high. I think the biblical prohibition against getting drunk applies.

    I don’t drink, but one beer is ok. Six?-you’re buzzed, dude….

    There’s no “one beer” equivalent with pot.

  21. Josh Hamrick says:

    Never tried it, but I’d assume you could take a little puff without being obliterated.

  22. J.U. says:

    Jim, Some might argue you never get “drunk” or “intoxicated” on marijuana. You just get “buzzed” or mildly intoxicated.

    I guess you could say you can drink one beer or one small glass of wine for the taste. You could drink a couple of beers or a large glass of wine for the “buzz.” And if you consume a six-pack or two of beer or a bottle of wine, then your are more than just “buzzed”, you are “plowed”.

    Could it be that the Bible admonition is against DRUNK or “plowed” and not against a slight buzz?

    Could it be that marijuana never gets you really intoxicated or “plowed” but only mildly high. Therefore you never get drunk on weed?

    On the other hand, no one smokes a joint for the taste, but only for the high.

    I don’t know. I gave all that up long ago, but my problems weren’t weed, but much stronger stuff that I don’t recommend even a tiny little bit.

    Not arguing for or against. Just wondering.

  23. Josh Hamrick says:

    J.U. , I’ve seen people rendered motionless due to some particularly strong weed.

  24. J.U. says:

    Jim, I think you are right. The only reason to smoke marijuana is to get high. However, I do think that if you keep smoking, you don’t get higher and higher. It isn’t like alcohol in that respect. Again, not sure how a Christian should consider this since many Christians (myself included) don’t think a single drink of alcohol is bad. Jesus drank wine. It is just the intoxication prohibition that I think applies to Christians.

    So I don’t know what to think about a Christian smoking legal marijuana. Or, as far as that goes, a Christian smoking cigarettes. (The body is a temple arguement.)

  25. J.U. says:

    Josh, You may be right. Sadly, when I was young, I went so fast from pot to much stronger stuff and ended up ruining about ten or more years of my life. BUT – I’m much better now. 🙂

  26. Josh Hamrick says:

    Disclaimer: I don’t drink, even a sip. Have never even so much as tried weed. Don’t smoke or anything…

    What is we are even free to be intoxicated?

  27. Xenia says:

    Question: Why does it bother you so much that there is a minister out there who preaches that women should be quiet? Does this affect you in any way? Does it bother you that there are women who agree with his message? Are you bothered that there are still a few (probably very few) women in the country who haven’t toed the feminist line? Aren’t women in this country just as free to be old-fashioned as they are free to be modernists? True freedom is the freedom to be just as old-fashioned or as modernist as a person wants to be, without mocking and intolerance and jeering from the politically correct. Everyone being shoved into one modernist mold- *that* is a true lack of freedom.

  28. Xenia says:

    whoops, I posted this in the wrong thread.

  29. Pilgrim says:

    James MacDonald coming to TBN, who would have thought?

  30. filbertz says:

    If the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, let Him speak to the person regarding what he/she may choose to introduce to it. Again, if scripture teaches freedom, then one ought to be cautious about gelding that teaching with a litany of should/shouldn’ts, can’t/mustn’ts, etc.

  31. CrucifiED says:

    Like I said, getting over the stereotypes of smokers will be more difficult than getting the government to legalize it. Here’s some good truth to help begin the process.

    My hope is that some who are suffering with their health will finally find some true mental and physical pain relief and maybe even some healing. But for many of us we have to get over the guilt that we have been taught to feel for using this plant.

    All those brain dead friends we have who smoke too much are not as brain dead as you would like to think. They may even be healthier in some ways than the rest of us. It’s ones personality and character that drives someone to work hard or be lazy, not the plant.

    Many, many people use the plant to help them work and there is no reason for those who are responsible to be made to feel guilty for what they have just because of those who give all their time to getting by with as little effort as possible.

    Molecular Biologist Explains How THC Completely Kills Cancer Cells

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