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104 Responses

  1. Michael says:

    There is a huge brawl taking place on social media over the World Vision story.
    The question before the house is should Christians stop supporting their work because of the new stand on gay marriage?
    The heat, as usual, outshines the light.
    If I were sponsoring a child through WV I would continue to do so.
    Kids trump doctrine…

  2. Kevin H says:

    I happened to just finish commenting on somebody’s Facebook page about the World Vision subject. I will copy my comments here:

    Lots of thoughts and opinions read on this all over Facebook and the internet over the past day or so. Some to the extreme on either side of the argument and others more moderated. Have taken the time to read some of them, but not nearly everything. Here are some of my thoughts.

    If you are currently directly sponsoring a child (or children) through World Vision, do not stop! If you pull your support, the person you are most directly affecting is that child. If you are more of a general sponsor to World Vision (not directly supporting a child) or when the time comes when your child has grown and is no longer in the program, then consideration could be given towards giving to another Christian relief agency instead. One that is not willing to compromise on biblical standards. There are plenty out there such as Compassion International, Gospel for Asia, and Samaritan’s Purse just to name a few big ones. I’m sure there are plenty of other ones, too, who may not be as big, but are still faithfully doing God’s work. I’m certainly not saying any of these organizations are perfect, as I’m sure you could find some dirt if you dig into any of them. If we’re looking for perfect, then we’re never going to give in the first place. But at the very least, I would think we should be more wary of an organization that will publicly state their willingness to compromise on what many believe to be a biblical standard.

    Now if you are one who doesn’t believe that a homosexual lifestyle is sinful, then you can just ignore everything I just wrote. 🙂

  3. Michael says:

    KevinH,

    I agree with you.
    I accidentally closed the comment form, so everyone try again. 🙂

  4. Xenia says:

    I think supporting the homosexual agenda is the modern equivalent of offering the pinch of incense to Caesar. It will separate the sheep from the goats.

  5. Steve Wright says:

    I am writing a lengthy response to the weak arguments expressed by World Vision to justify their decision…for I expect they will be repeated by others in the years to come.

    As to current supporters (which I am not). I would write a letter with my next donation, subtracting 15% for what they use on administration and fundraising. Tell them why, and tell them I will go to every media outlet in the nation if they can’t make up the difference in their federal money and half a million CEO salary.

    I would think a responsible Christian organization would not yank support for a child just because that support stopped (it must happen from time to time now anyway), but this is no longer a responsible Christian organization – by giving them the 85% they should still sponsor my child.

    Now…they get 1000 letters from Christians like that one…you watch the difference it would make.

  6. PP Vet says:

    If supporting WV, why not just move your support to Compassion? A simply wonderful organization.

  7. Michael says:

    Here’s where the liberal in me comes out…
    World Vision does amazing work feeding children and a host of other humanitarian efforts.
    If hungry kids are getting fed, I’m not sure I care about this a great deal.

  8. PP Vet says:

    Great point about incense.

    Polycarp was burned at the stake – and stabbed! – for refusing to burn incense.

    Who will be the first Christian martyred for refusing to repent of believing that certain behaviors are wrong?

    Is that worth dying for?

    Why support a corrupt organization when you have other options?

  9. Mike DeLong says:

    Regarding compensation: I do not understand why “the board made this decision” should be the final comment on the matter. This was one of the difficulties with Franklin Graham’s compensation a few years ago, and it was interesting to discover then how many of his family members were on the boards who were making these decisions.

  10. Andrew says:

    I am saddened by World Visions’ decision. They are hypocritical to say the least. On one side of the month they enforce abstinence among non married and single. Then they claim they are not endorsing same sex marriage and are for traditional marriage yet they will recognize the homosexual marriage and allow homosexuals to freely practice their sin calling it a real marriage. This is double speak. I agree we shouldn’t stop supporting a child if you have one but this is certainly a good and compelling reason to go with another agency that is Christian and stands for Christian principals and call for the resignation of Richard Stearns. If you want to just support humanitarian purposes just give to USAID or the Red cross who isn’t hypocritical.

  11. Shaun Sells says:

    So, just out of curiosity:
    – How much should a pastor make?
    – How does one determine if it is too little or too much?
    – How much does location matter?
    – How much does church size matter?

  12. Rob Murphy says:

    Para-church, para-site . . . all the blessings of God, invoking His name to goad the godly, but wanting nothing to do with the actual heart of God.

    Christians always have this gun to our head – how can you claim God when you won’t just do “our kind of good according to our way”? How can you complain about paying ____ when ‘so many other good things are being done’?

    It’s amazing how politicizing only goes one way.

    I’d continue paying the ransom for your hostage . . . er, I mean your supported child. You committed to the kid, not the org, but it’s a shame it’s become a hostage situation.

  13. Mike DeLong says:

    Shaun —

    The EFCA issues guidelines, along with guidelines for how a pastor and board should negotiate. I think they are based on guidelines for determining corporate executive compensation, so they focus on comparable circumstances.

  14. Bob Sweat says:

    Shaun,

    The rule when I was a pastor was I should be paid the average salary of the congregation. Another method was pastors should be paid the same as school teachers.

    When I left the ministry 23 years ago my salary package was $38,000 per year. My salary and benefits were known by my congregation. The latter is something that I rarely see in the churches where I have attended.

    My question is, shouldn’t the people who pay the pastor have a right to know what he is being paid?

  15. Andrew says:

    World vision would fire you if you’re a guy who was faithfully living with his girl friend and raising children if you didn’t have the marriage paper work completed. But if you are in a state sanctioned same sex situation you are recruited to work for them. Unbelievable.

  16. London says:

    Maybe WV took the action in order to legally continue their work.
    If it came down to choosing between feeding starving children, or fighting a legal battle over gay marriage rights sanctioned by the state in which I operate, I’d choose to continue to feed people.
    Not every battle needs to be fought by every body. There’s plenty of battles that WV is choosing to remain fighting.
    I say more power to them!

  17. London says:

    Unless some holier than thou Christians want to step up and feed, clothe etc. ALL the people that WV does.
    If anyone is willing and able to do it…then do it.

  18. Andrew says:

    London,
    I read the article and WV didn’t do this for legal reason but for Christian unity where there will never be unity. Just think of how many kids could be fed if Richard Stearns salary went to them instead. Its actually pretty mind boggling.

  19. Michael says:

    There is no doubt in my mind that WV has capitulated to cultural pressure on a moral issue.
    However, when I was pondering this I also started counting off the top of my head how many adulteries, abuses of power and people, financial scandals, etc, that I know about in conservative anti-gay marriage circles.
    Al Mohler was almost as quick to comment on this issue as he was to cover C.J. Mahaney.
    My moral outrage tap is running a little dry…

  20. Michael says:

    Bob,Shaun,

    “The rule when I was a pastor was I should be paid the average salary of the congregation.”
    I think that’s fair.
    They should be paid as much as school teachers if they have the equivalent education and the congregation can support it…

  21. RiBo says:

    I posted this on the other blog. Very encouraging. I am pretty sure Steve and Shaun have similar in place and that is very good and is the real goal of all the blogging about CC.

    I am in receipt of Rob McCoy’s Calvary Chapel Thousand Oaks By-Laws, their Child Protection Policies and their finances.

    Some of the best accountability policies I’ve seen.

    This should be the model for the Calvary Chapel System of churches.

    McCoy has learned a lot from the past and from reading here and elsewhere. His Calvary Chapel franchise currently has some of the best protections and policies in place in the Calvary Chapel system.

    It is right to acknowledge victims of abuse and their pain and not minimize it. It is right to look back a decade or so ago in reflection and say “I could have done better”…it’s also right to acknowledge and applaud and support a pastor and church who has made huge strides in this area and has upped their game and is leading on the issues of protecting Children and being financially transparent.

    I am really happy to see the real things in the packet I received. This is very encouraging. It is b/c of a few things…one is victims speaking up, another is leadership listening and making good changes.

  22. RiBo says:

    As an aside to the CC pastors and to the Association…the thing that will keep the lawyers at bay more than anything is having these policies in place and then following them and upholding them.

    It is in Calvary Chapel Association’s best interest to make these policies a requirement to get the rights to use the licensed name and logo etc to be an official CC franchise.

    CC pastors, please ask the Association to make this something that is required and mandated through the affiliation agreement and application process.

    Once it’s done in an official capacity in writing and verifiable, I wills shut down CC Abuse.

  23. Michael says:

    RiBo,

    You should get permission to post them so that others have a model to copy.
    We used to have a few here, but lost them when the database got hacked.

  24. Andrew says:

    Scandals and Adultery are unfortunate and terrible but not un-expected from sinners. However when you sanction the adultery and approve it, it looses its scandal-ness.

    Jesus said it this way, when the salt loses its flavor, how can it be made salty again?

  25. Michael says:

    Andrew,

    I’m talking about things that have been covered by people in the ministry today.
    It’s sanctioning sin anyway you look at it.

  26. Steve Wright says:

    There is no doubt in my mind that WV has capitulated to cultural pressure on a moral issue.
    ————————————————————-
    And that is the rub. To stay silent is to affirm the decision. To express disagreement while continuing the same, full, support is meaningless.

    How often have we read criticism here about Christians continuing to attend and financially support churches with pastors as known scoundrels. Why is there not consideration for the missionaries, the poverty programs, and all the other good works that may be taking place in such a church?

    I have supported CCF in the past and I am sure World Vision works in a similar fashion. They work in villages and communities for the economies of scale needed when it comes to food, education, clean water, vaccinations. They aren’t randomly picking and choosing individual kids around the world.

    People’s support comes and goes for multiple reasons, and I sincerely doubt WV skips over Johnny because his monthly check no longer is being sent by the elderly lady who passed away and whose heirs do not continue. They will pass his support to another.

    Of course, the ability to grow is hindered – and if they were the only organization feeding poor kids that might be a concern. But there are other alternatives. Besides, the GOAL is not the destruction of World Vision, but to make a loud and clear stand as a Christian supporter in hopes they will reverse their decision.

    Thus, my suggestion about reducing 15% – To say I want to support my kid but I am not going to pay your television advertising bill while you tell the world you are a Christian organization, and get the dollars that Christians could otherwise give to other worthy organizations.

    Maybe to that a letter giving a one-year warning, so they could plan accordingly if they remain fixed in this path, but also have time to reconsider the decision – that there are other children in need through other groups that you will support.

    Our church supports an orphanage in India and unlike World Vision, 100% of that support will go to those kids if someone wants to give. I know we are hardly alone too.

  27. Michael says:

    Steve,

    I’m not arguing against you.
    I’m simply not willing to risk the incredible good works that WV does over a moral issue when we have so many of our own.
    People should do as their conscience dictates.
    I’m simply bone tired of the outrage over one moral issue while we institutionalize our own.

  28. Steve Wright says:

    The pastor salary article was not what I expected to read…but I do see that it speaks to one of our regular discussions here about the issues concerning work product.

    I will say though, I don’t think there is any formula or “right way” to determine pastoral compensation as there are far too many factors to take into consideration.

    The comparison to a school teacher really makes no sense to me. I notice nobody suggesting a comparison to a school superintendent’s salary. 🙂

  29. Steve Wright says:

    Michael, would you though, at minimum, urge all supporters to write a strong letter of disapproval – even with no reduction or threat of reduction of support.

    And likewise, would you urge any NEW support to go to one of the many other fine child-relief organizations…

  30. Bob Sweat says:

    Steve

    School superintendents up here make over $100,000 plus benefits. All have masters degrees, and some doctors.

  31. Bob Sweat says:

    In addition, the taxpayers in the district know how much they are paid.

  32. Michael says:

    Steve,

    I have no issue with people voicing disapproval.
    I’m a blogger. 🙂
    For me, the question is who is doing the best job of providing relief to people in need.
    If they’re doing a great job feeding starving children, I don’t care if they worship a rock.
    I care that kids get fed.

  33. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    “I think supporting the homosexual agenda is the modern equivalent of offering the pinch of incense to Caesar. It will separate the sheep from the goats.”

    ^^^^This

  34. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    and the apostasy continues for the visible Church in America. Sorry but not sorry, I couldn’t and wouldn’t support them.

  35. Steve Wright says:

    If they’re doing a great job feeding starving children, I don’t care if they worship a rock.
    I care that kids get fed.
    —————————————————-
    I understand that and I am sure all agree with that. However….there is something about a huge organization with a very well paid CEO (and no doubt other staff) specifically targeting a Christian audience, knowing that Christians are more likely to give than others AND Christians are more likely to funnel their giving into other like-minded organizations.

    If WV did worship a rock they would not have grown to a one billion dollar a year organization, and their CEO sure wouldn’t be making close to half a million dollars annually.

  36. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    “The rule when I was a pastor was I should be paid the average salary of the congregation.”
    I think that’s fair.
    They should be paid as much as school teachers if they have the equivalent education and the congregation can support it…”

    rather how about the Pastor gets paid what the median income is of whatever community they are pastoring? that would probably be easier to figure out

  37. Steve Wright says:

    Bob,

    I know how much superintendents are paid…thus my joke. 🙂

    I have great respect for school teachers. I just don’t see the comparison. However, like I said, each pastoral situation is unique. In some churches the pastor is much like a school teacher – with a fairly well-defined, specific job description. In other churches, the pastor is far more like a superintendent in terms of responsibilities and oversight.

    Not to mention all the other variables.

  38. Michael says:

    I must confess that I’m utterly jaded about this issue.
    We’re working on a story about Philippine orphanages where I am convinced great evil has been done to the applause of thousands of American Christians.
    I dumped a bunch of money into a church in Juarez that had been abandoned by it’s “planter” from across the border.
    No one gives a rats ass about that kind of sin, but this one gets the blood boiling.
    I’m familiar with some of what WV does and has done…and I’m just not going to get too worked up about this move.

  39. Xenia says:

    I agree with Kevin’s #2: Keep supporting the WV child you have promised to support until you are released from that obligation. Then find a godly organization to support. It’s pretty simple, I think. I for one am tired of the line that says “We can’t object to one group’s sins until all the other sins are taken care of.” That guarantees that nothing will change for the better but will change for the worse.

  40. Steve Wright says:

    I’m jaded too, Michael. I note in the article that WV allows up to 35% of their total contributions to be from the government, but their percentage has been dropping and presently is far below that allowance as they ran a multi-million dollar deficit

    This is a preemptive move, motivated by money, and possibly the hopes of reward for additional grants the next go-around as a reward for their new progressive stance.

    And that’s fine. Big-time charity work is cutthroat. Only so many dollars to go around (especially federal tax dollars) But Stearns won’t cop to that but rather uses the Lord’s Name and Bride for justification.

    Like I said…I’m jaded too.

  41. Xenia says:

    I must confess that I’m utterly jaded about this issue.<<<

    I care more about WV than I care about the shenanigans of Mark Driscoll, a topic that never seems to grow old around here.

  42. Michael says:

    I find this to be difficult territory to navigate for another reason.
    I affirm the churches’ traditional teaching that homosexual behavior is sinful.
    I just posted Dr. Packers short video on the matter that I completely affirm.
    However…I’m amazed as I work through the Gospel of Mark at how often Jesus broke the law to bring mercy…

  43. Michael says:

    Xenia,

    “I for one am tired of the line that says “We can’t object to one group’s sins until all the other sins are taken care of.”

    i haven’t said that…I am saying that it’s utterly hypocritical to focus on one and not the others.
    It is deadly to both testimony and witness.

  44. Andrew says:

    I care that kids get fed real food as well as spiritual food. Here is a quote from Richard Stearns book that caused me to pause and ponder what kind of representative WV is for God.

    “When we committed ourselves to following Christ, we also
    committed to living our lives in such a way that a watching
    world would catch a glimpse of God’s character. …God chose
    us to be His representatives. Living out our faith privately was
    never meant to be an option. (Hole in Our Gospel, 2009)”

    I don’t see much difference between WV and USAID in providing relief.

  45. Xenia says:

    I agree that some (note I said “some”) churches have been lax in denouncing adultery, fornication and divorce. But a line has been drawn in the sand: “This far and no further.” The line should have been drawn long ago but this is where we are now and this is a time when people have to make some decisions. They will have to make them sooner or later.

  46. “I don’t see much difference between WV and USAID in providing relief.”

    What would you expect to see different in handing out food and clothing between the 2 organizations? Would you put a bible verse in the fortune cookie?

  47. Andrew says:

    What would you expect to see different in handing out food and clothing between the 2 organizations? Would you put a bible verse in the fortune cookie?
    _____________________________________________________________________

    1,296,038 Bibles and New Testaments made accessible since 2010 is the WV claim.

  48. fyi says:

    Michael @43; Jesus never broke the law. He fulfilled it perfectly. He did, in fact, contradict the Pharisees wrong interpretation of the law. Mercy is the end of the law and it is important to remember that Jesus kept both the letter and the spirit of the law.

  49. Xenia says:

    Isn’t WV a missionary organization? Will they be sending out homosexual “married” couples to the mission field? Will little kids see this and believe it is the Christian way to do things?

    If it’s done in the name of the US gov’t, that’s one thing. If done in the name of Christ?

    Better a millstone…..

  50. Andrew says:

    Yep, Xenia I agree that is why I suggest people giving their money to USAID if their main concern is about relief.

  51. Michael says:

    fyi,

    Technically you are correct.
    However…I find it interesting that Jesus touched lepers, the woman with the issue of blood,and the dead…all of which would have made Him “unclean” according to the law.
    It would have been more theologically correct of me to say in regard to these (and the Sabbath) that God turned the rules around when mercy was at stake.

  52. Michael says:

    “1,296,038 Bibles and New Testaments made accessible since 2010 is the WV claim.”
    I have no reason to doubt that claim, although I do know that they use a translation of the NT that would cause some issues with some.

  53. Steve Wright says:

    Michael, that link “The Great Lie of Christian Friendship” is really stellar.

    I urge the readers not to dismiss it based on the title. I don’t know that the suggestions and conclusions at the end are those I would fully embrace BUT the observations in the bulk of the article, as well as the personal testimony of the struggling pastor, are excellent.

  54. Michael says:

    Steve,

    I saw that last week and was very impressed.
    I think it applies even beyond pastoral ministry.
    Glad you liked it.

  55. Andrew says:

    Michael, if its the Queen James Version I would find issue. http://queenjamesbible.com. I used to think this was a joke but now I am not so sure.

  56. Steve Wright says:

    I think it applies even beyond pastoral ministry.
    ———————————————–
    Absolutely! How many times do we read of people’s frustrations at “losing all their friends” when they move to a different church. It’s not really like these people are now your enemies (usually) but a misunderstanding of the role of that prior friendship.

    I think all can benefit from that article.

  57. This is why I like my denomination having it’s own relief and human services departments. Control over the mission and the message.

  58. fyi says:

    Michael @52; I agree. The law, like the sabbath, was made for man, not man for the law or the sabbath.

  59. Steve Wright says:

    This is why I like my denomination having it’s own relief and human services departments. Control over the mission and the message.
    ———————————————————————-
    This is also why I prefer to be part of a larger group, though retaining the independence of the local church which I am committed to. If a disaster hits a place like Haiti, and people at our church would like to help, there is likely a CC that already has a presence, has connections, in Haiti and we can financially support the work whereas we could not effectively do something brand new at such a time in our own limitations…and at the same time we aren’t just encouraging people to give to something like the Red Cross with all the possible shenanigans we have seen take place there,

    Most of the time I ever hear from the new CC Assoc. it is after a disaster to inform us of a CC that is connected there and provide the contact information if our church wants to lend a hand of support. That’s a good thing in my opinion.

  60. Andrew says:

    This is why I like my denomination having it’s own relief and human services departments. Control over the mission and the message.
    _____________________________________________________________________

    I used to give to Samaritans purse. I am reluctant to now since the Red cross can probably do a better job and I am not worried about being targeted as a Christian for my giving. I still, however like the Operation Christmas Child but it does cause me to pause and think about the message. Franklin Graham has come right out and said that Mormons are basically Christians too so I am not really sure about the message any longer.

  61. Paul says:

    Conflicted about what to do? If you are already sponsoring a child, why not just send money directly to the child or the child’s family and bypass the middleman (WV) altogether?

    (Of course, you will give up your tax deduction doing so – but that is another issue.)

  62. Michael says:

    Andrew,

    It’s called “The Voice”…and frankly, I’m not a fan.

  63. Andrew says:

    Do you mean the TV show The Voice? http://www.nbc.com/the-voice

  64. Steve,
    Did you say anything different than I said?

    I will take one exception – LCMS Relief and Human Services is not just for disasters but everyday service around the world.

  65. Michael says:

    No, that’s what they call their translation.

  66. Andrew says:

    oh, ok. Is it similar to “The Message”

  67. Michael says:

    No, I actually like “The Message”.
    I did just check and they replaced ‘homosexuality” with “sexual deviancy” in 1 Cor 6…

  68. The World Vision thing is baffling to me.
    Apparently World Vision has decided that it is better to employ homosexuals with a nice salary and ensure that they would lose support and money for the real mission they are supposed to be doing, poor kids.

    They knew this would happen if they did this.

    So to me this says that World Vision values middle class homosexuals over poor third world children no matter what they say.
    I see people excorciating people that say they would quit giving money to WV and saying they are uncaring.
    I ask how uncaring must your organization be to place the needs of middle class homosexuals over third world children?

    I am like Michael in # 1 though, if I was sponsoring a child I wouldn’t want that to stop, but I would try to find a way to get my sponsored child into another program and abandon World Vision when it was completed.

  69. I think Steve may be right.
    This seems like a ploy to get more of the government money.
    Sad.

    I agree with X’s pinch of incense statement at #4.

  70. Steve Wright says:

    Did you say anything different than I said?
    ————————————–
    No, I was pretty much joining in agreement with you on that one. 🙂

    it is a good example of the value of affiliation for otherwise independent churches.

  71. Steve Wright says:

    Derek – I like your take at post #69. That’s another good angle on this. (I may borrow it) 🙂

  72. Borrow away. 🙂

  73. Attention? This calls for a celebration that the guy did the honorable thing and killed himself.

  74. Rob Murphy says:

    Well said, Derek. I called it a hostage situation . . . and the reality is that WV makes a choice that has only a down-side. Even if it’s only an ‘editorial’ choice, it’s an editorial choice that alienates and disenfranchises at minimum 1/2 of your donors, makes them less likely to extend commitments and ask others to involve in the mission of caring for kids. Advancing Homosexuality by Holding Hungry Children Hostage. Again, I’ve never seen a more powerful less than 10% of the entire population.

  75. London says:

    They are not holding anyone hostage.
    You are free to give your money to whomever you feel best represents the way you want that money to be spent.
    They will be able to apply for federal grants more easily and might in fact be even more wealthy and able to help even more people with this move.

  76. I don’t think they are holding anyone hostage.
    They have just said that middle class homosexuals are more important to them than starving third world children.
    They do this, because they knew the direction this would take and weighed the choice.
    They chose to alienate the main component that helps them by this choice.

    WV has their own guilt in this matter.
    Let’s face it.
    If they lose money over this, it is not adequate to just blame the people who choose not to donate and say that WV’s decision had no consequence.

    I am not telling people not to continue to support any children that you are already supporting through WV.
    That would be irresponsible and a dishonor on you for not taking the support you give a living breathing child seriously enough.
    But why did WV not consider this? Or did they?
    Why must the blame be always on the individual and not the irresponsible organization?

    I am saying write a letter and express your displeasure and find some way to support your child that does not involve WV.

  77. Steve Wright says:

    Michael, remember how you have said that corporate America has been the driving force behind the gay activist movement in America on the search for the almighty dollar.

    Wondering out loud if WV’s CEO, who certainly has been Mr. Corporate America, is more actively leading a charge rather than simply caving to the current trends….

  78. Michael says:

    Steve,

    Maybe both…

  79. Michael says:

    The online reaction I’m seeing is almost frightening…this is blowing up far bigger than I thought it would.

  80. Frightening how?

  81. Steve Wright says:

    That’s because anyone who reads this guy’s argument knows he is lying through his teeth and using the church and the Lord as his shield….which tends to tick people off.

  82. Michael says:

    The reaction of theologically conservative Christians is being met with a sustained rage I’ve never seen before to this extent, much of it from the progressive Christian community.
    This may be one those watersheds we didn’t see until it was past…

  83. Michael says:

    A person inside WV says that 2000 kids dropped today alone…

  84. Xenia says:

    I’m not surprised. Almost every Christian I know has a picture card of an adorable African child that they are sponsoring magneted to their refrigerators. People trusted WV and know they can’t. Maybe THIS will wake up the slumbering Christians of America. The Duck Dynasty thing was just about a dumb TV show but this hits Christians in their heart of hearts.

  85. WV saw this coming.
    They are just as much to blame.
    They have now tied themselves to the homosexual lobby.

    Progressive Christians don’t want to see that the selfishness of the homosexual lobby in America is just as much to blame for this situation.
    They must push their way in even if kids in third world nations suffer.
    Their cause is greater than the children in their own eyes.

    But hey, let’s blame every pastor in the land, but be blind to the fact that if WV had just continued on as usual right now 2000 kids would still be covered.

    Selfishness….that is the name of this game.

  86. Xenia says:

    I suspect most sponsors are staying with the program for the sake of their sponsored child. If it wasn’t for that, there would be many more dropping out, I think. But people do care about the kids so they are biding their time.

  87. Xenia says:

    This is how the Enemy works to trap and confuse decent people. He sets up a false dilemma: accept evil or starve little children.

  88. I agree with Xenia 100%. I just taught Daniel 3 this past Sunday. Go back and read it for yourself. When given another chance to bow to the statue (a minor act) to save themselves, the 3 didn’t bat an eye – “Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego answered and said to the king, “O Nebuchadnezzar, we have no need to answer you in this matter.”

    Is your God so weak that he will starve the children just because you stand for righteousness?

  89. They also want to lie to you and make it seem like this is the only way these children can be helped.
    Don’t fall for that.
    You know their name and where they live in most cases.
    Find a way to help them without WV.
    Take personal responsibility and teach WV that being a Christian still means something.

    Don’t be like all these whiny baby progressives who fall for the lie that only this organization can do such good in the world.
    You don’t believe it when a pastor like Driscoll says it. well, don;t believe it here either.
    Plenty of organizations out there and plenty of missions in the field to take up the banner with your money and go hands on with these kids.

  90. Steve Wright says:

    Great comments, all of you…

  91. Michael, I must have a more sane social media than you, which really is just Facebook and my email. I just went through all my FB for the day and had one comment about World Vision (which until I read the story hadn’t even thought they were still in business.)

    I did have 5 comments on the Hobby Lobby thing and one cool posting on the 5 good things about having a “friend with benefits” 😉

  92. Michael says:

    MLD,

    The real action in social media is on Twitter…where I follow about 1500 people of every stripe imaginable.
    I’ll be posting one conversation I saw yesterday that was representative of what I was seeing all day.
    I can’t say for certain, but this may be one of those cultural tipping points that changes a lot of things.

  93. You listen to 1,500 people chatting back and forth and some of my comments make you explode???? LOL

  94. Xenia says:

    I hardly pay any attention to my Twitter account but I took a look to see if WV was a topic. Not one mention! Of course, I most of the people I follow are Orthodox people posting quotes from the Fathers, Tolkien fans posting quotes from Gandalf, Chicken farmers on mite eradication, vegans posting links to recipes and local news.

  95. I have never Twittered … I only PP 🙂

  96. Shaun Sells says:

    Xenia, are you a chicken farmer? My family just bought our first dozen chickens and are starting the process of learning. I thought it would be a good family project and learning experience for our family.

  97. Xenia says:

    Shaun, I have five hens: Rita, Goldie, Daisy, Rhoda and Louise. Hens are pretty easy to take care of and the eggs are delish! What kind of chickens did you get? We have 4 Rhode Island Reds and one Ameraucana who lays blue eggs.

  98. London says:

    I haven’t seen one FB comment about WV. But mostly my FB page is full of Ukrainians being killed, kidnapped and their lands occupied.
    That’s a far greater outrage to me than this WV story.
    But, I’m not as concerned with who sleeps with whom as some other people are I guess.
    Saw one tweet by someone I follow.
    I think the level of “drama” depends on how you identify yourself and hence who you friend or follow.

  99. brian says:

    I know this issue is not very important in the big picture or for defending the apologetic. A few years ago some preachers started telling people their kids were possessed and had demons and if they would kick in to the preachers kitty he will exercise the demon. First it is a good business, though I struggle with that on a moral and ethical level, which is somewhat irrelevant I admit. I mostly struggled with it because relatives and family members were banging nails through the top of some kids head, burning them, beating them to death, drowning them, abandoning them, hacking off limbs, throwing acid in their faces, shoving their hands in “garbage disposals” (this one I do not know if it came from a reputable source) or just killing them. I wrote to many evangelical leaders, Dr. Mohler, etc. did not see any real fire on the witch children of Africa, actually there was not a single post.

    I understand, well actually I dont, that this is not a critical issue, much like the utter whole sail slaughter going on down south of, mostly, poor people. Of course what consenting adults do is far more important. I never quite got that, it is not a watershed issue, it just is not, its not even a slight drip in the Damn.

  100. Andrew says:

    This piece from 2 years ago looks eerily similar to WV’s (Richard Stearns) new policy. Its kind of creepy. Just replace atheist with homosexual and its pretty much identical.

    http://www.reformation21.org/blog/2014/03/a-precedent-for-lala-land-from.php

  101. PP Vet says:

    “Why one blog decided to cut off comments…what do you think?”

    I enjoy the banter of comments – because I find it often informative.

    Some, if not most, commenters are troubled souls with axes to grind. But even they can bring insights.

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