Links
Musical duo “The Civil Wars” live up to their name.
Reactions to the Zimmerman verdict…
The difference between being a critic and being a “hater”…
UK soon to legalize gay marriage…
An organized collection of irrational nonsense…
Another insipid book meant to convince you that Jesus was just a political hack…
Twentieth anniversary of “Evangelicals and Catholics Together”…my tribe still hasn’t forgiven J.I. Packer for being thoughtful…
John Lennon wrote Oral Roberts…
Horrific allegations against an SGM pastor still in the pulpit…
Lee Grady’s five biggest mistakes made in prophetic ministry...next weeks article will be about mistakes made when hunting Bigfoot with unicorn horns.
The daughter of Matt Slick,founder of C.A.R.M… is an atheist.
McDonalds kindly shows you how to live on minimum wage…as long as you don’t eat.
Kim Riddlebarger on Orange County as a “burned over district” and Calvary Chapels influence there.
I am really sorry to hear about Rachel Slick. I knew her parents slightly (I doubt if they remember me at all). Matt has a difficult personality but his wife is a lovely person. I hope she doesn’t make a cottage industry out of embarrassing her parents.
Xenia,
Because of the number of people who have experienced Matt’s difficult personality, there will be a lot of pressure on her to do so.
My wife and I love The Civil Wars. We are eagerly awaiting the new album.
Awesome link on Lennon, I had no idea.
Saw Paul sing “Here Today” to honor John last Friday. It was quite moving.
Allegations that SGM was beating 5 year old girls naked bottoms and sticking objects in their vaginas. Oh, I’m sure it’s all lies and we shouldn’t judge and we should leave it to God and forgive and move on etc and we just can’t know who is telling the truth. We know women lie all the time, we know pastors and principals never do anything wrong.
On a non-sarcastic note, what a terrible story. I hope it isn’t true, but it probably is. I think we’re called to unilaterally forgive anyways as God will forgive all of us.
I spent some years at CARM which eventually led me here. Matt is hardly the first person in ministry to have a child reject the faith but I imagine this provides fuel for many people.
Something that caught my eye was this….. “It was around this time my dad began receiving death threats — though I didn’t find this out until later. Someone was sending him graphic pictures, descriptive threats of rape against his family, and Google images of locations near our house.”
This is a reason I am against people’s personal information online because you never know if someone will decide to do something everyone would regret. Even if that information can be obtained otherwise if posted in an arena where the person is disliked you run the risk of putting people’s lives at risk. That is not okay.
…now, if God doesn’t unilaterally forgive all of us…then I think we should be like God and damn the SGM guy to hell and not forgive him and exact wrath, punishment, vengeance and justice.
oops… should read
“This is a reason I am against POSTING people’s personal information online because you never know if someone will decide to do something everyone would regret.
Ya, I’ve received veiled and not-so-veiled threats online from supporters of Camp Calvary Chapel. Goes with the territory. My advice to them was not to miss…b/c I won’t.
RB,
Maybe we should deal with it biblically with a full investigation, prosecution and punishment by the civil authorities if necessary, and leave the eternal judgment to God.
Erunner,
I think the atmosphere is even worse today than when Slick was at his most visible. I do think lives can be at stake.
Michael, that doesn’t seem to be the consensus biblical opinion, at least not in much of evangelicalism.
Excellent hater/critic article. Shortly into my 4 1/2 years of running refuge, I became sort of immune to the blind hatred directed towards me. The accusations were humorous in context, as I would have been perceived as a nice guy (in comparison) if I would have published the voicemails/emails I received. DO NOT touch someone’s idols. After I published Brent’s documents, I received a few, “I use to hate you, but I want to thank you” calls. Funny how that works…
Thanks for posting Brent’s sgm article. The truth is far worse than what has been revealed.
Fascinating Lennon article.
Call me jaded, but I think the Civil Wars soap opera marketing strategy is a perfect fit for our “reality” TV culture. Quite brilliant.
Michael, Some ‘christians’ find it okay to kill abortion doctors and I’m afraid that same type of mentality could evolve to include dealing with false/dangerous people within the church. And it scares me.
Jim,
To this day, I’m not used to the hate.
It was a hell of a lot easier when I only got it from one side though…
I hope Brent has documentation of everything he’s saying…that machine will destroy him if he slips.
He keeps saying it’s worse than we know…
I am sure that I am far from knowing the whole story with Matt Slick, but from the way his daughter describes her upbringing is sounds like she was raised in a cult, even if it was just within her own home.
erunner,
If only you could see the stuff I got back in the wilder days…
dswoager,
I always found Slick to be on the edge…and I usually agreed with his doctrine.
His methods and style were harsh.
The SGM story is so upsetting. To imagine that this sadistic abuse went on in a Christian school (or anywhere!) is heartbreaking.
” I usually agreed with his doctrine.
His methods and style were harsh.”
Seems whether we agree with them or not, why is it that so many people with this kind of “ministry” are so harsh? With such a strong stand on scripture, where is the grace and attitude of seeking the best for one another?
Nonnie,
I have a theory…
That theory is that many of these people aren’t defending the faith as much as they are defending their own identities.
Thus, when you disagree with them, they take it as a judgment upon their own person.
They built such a strong box around themselves that it scares them when it’s penetrated with a new idea…
Michael,
Since I was a one trick pony, it was easier for me to compartmentalize, I guess. Once it started, I just expected it to escalate. I have a pretty rough background, so threats of violence don’t have a huge effect on me. I asked one guy from Orlando who was trying to come off as very dangerous if he wanted to meet for coffee, and he backed down. I found out later that he’s a cop!
I’m not talking to Brent these days, and we aren’t talking to the same people, but we are both saying the same thing. The truth is far worse than what has been made public.
Jim,
Why hasn’t it all come out?
I couldn’t even get very far through the SGM article. I picture my daughters and my heart begins to rage. And I’m usually a pretty even-keeled person. If these things are true, I pray that justice somehow prevails. (And I know this article is probably representative of only a small portion of the SGM allegations).
Re: the McDonald’s article. A family of 3 can live quite comfortably on $2000 a month…provided they don’t need to pay for health insurance or for health services out of pocket. I don’t understand where McDonald’s got their $20 a month health insurance number. Surely it must be much more than that.
Michael,
Some people don’t want to come forward. Others are completely unaware that they are not alone, as they haven’t seen the blogs or the news.
A man called me from the other side of the country yesterday. He just found survivors, and a friend gave him my phone number, thinking that I ran survivors. His children were victims.
I tried to google an article I have mentioned before about Lennon and the 2nd choice was actually my comment several months ago here on this website. So I’ll just copy/paste that. 🙂
——————————————————————-
Years ago I read an article in Readers Digest that I was able to find again online and I post it here. Written by a missionary who had a chance encounter with Lennon. It is very positive and fits a similar picture I read about Lennon when he visited the Monday Night Football booth one time and was very inquisitive about finding out how the game was played, very humble, willing to learn.
Some of you may enjoy the missionary article.
http://www.guideposts.org/personal-growth/encounter-john-lennon-helps-one-woman-grow?page=0,0
I can’t come close to understanding how a victim or their parents feel. I’ve spoken to some of the parents, and have been honored to meet one family, but I’ve just never been there.
I know that I carry guilt and remorse from my sgm days. Imagine how a parent of a victim feels.
Jim,
Why is this so prevalent in SGM circles?
Steve,
That’s a very cool story…
Michael,
That’s above my pay grade. Immersing the children in an Ezzo-style, instant submission to authority culture might help explain how the perps got away with it. Adults who also always submit might help explain how pastors were able to convince some not to go to the police. Pastors who perhaps were not intentionally part of a cover up are easier to understand, as their arrogance knows no bounds. They don’t need police and therapists.
I don’t get the perp culture at all, other than a sin focus always leads to more sin.
RE: Jim @ # 24,
Do you think it’s a kind of fear-factor that some folks won’t come forward?
Fear of not following the Bible as they’ve been taught?
On the flip side, I know sgm pastors who have always taught their small group leaders to immediately call the cops when hearing of any type of abuse.
On the other flip side (?), I’ve spoken with victims of spousal abuse, including sexual, that were told to grin and bear it.
Jim,
I think you nailed it…an intense focus on sin produces more sin.
Scary stuff…
Muff-I just don’t know. I know that victims of childhood sexual abuse carry shame. Twist a little mind in such an unspeakable way, and the outcome is an unknown. May God have mercy…
On that CC article. I’d give the author an A for effort, but a C for content. Some of the statements are SO ridiculous, but it is very clear a serious attempt was made to write a balanced perspective.
Michael, from the description in the article it sounded as if he was trying to program his daughter into Christianity. I suppose I am using the word cult in less of the real definition and more of the cultural perception. It did seem like a pretty sick way to grow up though. Playing the Holy Spirit for your family seems to lead to somewhat shaky converts. I truly hope that this girl has an encounter with the true God as I can imagine that He could move in her life in very powerful ways.
I may have told this story before but here it is again: A few years ago, a friend in Santa Cruz invited me to her house for a BBQ. Matt Slick was one of the guests. Everybody’s talking theology and they are all Calvinists except my husband and myself. Somehow it came out that not only was I not a Calvinist but that I was Orthodox. So the next few hours were devoted to trying to talk me out of Orthodoxy. (He tried to use logic. Logic doesn’t work with us Orthodox. We don’t care about logic.) The thing that surprised me was that here’s a man whose whole life’s work is devoted to the study of (what he considers to be) “false” religions, most especially the Roman Catholics. Yet he knew zilch about Eastern Orthodoxy. His first question to me? “Do the Orthodox believe in the Trinity?”
Well, it was a pleasant conversation because he couldn’t ban me when I didn’t agree with him. That’s his usual tactic in his chatroom. Here’s a typical conversation:
Matt: Are you a Christian?
Me: Yes
Matt: Do you believe in salvation by faith alone?
Me: That requires some explanation and-
Matt: Do you believe in salvation by FAITH ALONE?
Me: Give me a chance to explain-
Matt: DO YOU BELIEVE IN SALVATION BY FAITH ALONE?
Me: Let me…
Banned.
I still visit the CARM chatroom now and then because I have some friends there that I enjoy chatting with. Matt doesn’t come to the chatroom very much anymore.
Steve,
I thought it was much nicer than it could have been… 🙂
Kim is a pretty good guy…you should leave him a comment where you think he was off base.
The Civil Wars have a great sound.
Gotta appreciate this statement from Charlie Peacock:
“…my number one hope is forgiveness and reconciliation for the two of them. One of the most satisfying and uniquely human actions is the ability to forgive and receive forgiveness.”
At the risk of my political persuasions preceding me with this post, I do not think the link is at all an accurate portrayal of what McDonalds is “doing” there. They are not telling people how to survive on minimum wage, and not telling people to go get a second job etc.
If you go to the actual link (and not commentary on the link), they are giving a beginner’s course on budgeting. The numbers are there as examples and in no way are pointed to as what the person should expect.
Frankly, since our schools are so busy promoting the cultural revolution instead of preparing kids (especially the non-college kids) for a future, McDonalds should be commended.
I almost wrote yesterday in the Things I Think, that one area the church could provide a huge assistance is in basic economic principles like budgeting and saving. Dave Ramsey and similar courses are so expensive for a church to offer, but few people really “get it” and as a result, (including those middle aged, middle class folks) when the storm hits people get hammered.
I revise my post. Actually, what McDonalds has done is build a very educational and helpful website for a variety of “real world” financial issues – budgeting being just one segment of that website.
Student loans, leasing apartments, buying cars….lots in there of value.
X said (about Matt Slick): ” (He tried to use logic. Logic doesn’t work with us Orthodox. We don’t care about logic.) ”
Logic doesn’t work with Calvinists either…just sayin.
X, Calvinists will embrace logic only to a very limited point. Their Construct is largely illogical unless you accept the Presupposition in their definition of “Sovereignty” and then accept their definitions of a lot of other contradictory things in the bible.
As I told Rolph in my early days on here many years ago now…Theo-logical…is not logical. It doesn’t add up no matter which Group tries. (and yes, it’s entendre and highlighting assumptions, I know the root words are Theo Logos, knew it then, know it now)
The Calvinists are probably the worst bunch in that they appeal to Logic within a very illogical set of presuppositions. It’s like a Scientologist appealing to Logic after choking down a whole bunch of presuppositions and definitions and conclusions that aren’t at all logical.
If you’re going to claim “Logic!” then by all means…apply it from the ground floor and build from there. Claiming “Logic!” on the 113th floor is a bit…no a lot disingenuous.
RB, well, we Orthodox never claim to be logical. Maybe we are the Church for you!
“RB, well, we Orthodox never claim to be logical. Maybe we are the Church for you!”
LOL, no, that would drive me crazy. I don’t think I belong in a church, but I do respect the one I’m a member of b/c while I disagree with some of their conclusions, they present the range of orthodox (little ‘o’) theories out there and they run a clean operation, open finances, vet youth workers, treat people well, elected elders/board, shared power and they just have a good attitude towards folks. They seem to be peacemakers and they do missions, help folks locally and abroad etc.
On “Reactions to the Zimmerman verdict”, I saw that article posted by Ed Stetzer yesterday. I usually like a lot of the things he posts, but “privilege” got right up my nose.
“Privilege” seems to be the new code word for “white people”.
Sorry, but I don’t understand this whole thing of thinking all white people are privileged.
I grew up in a county that is about evenly divided on race, and I know people from both races that are struggling and I know some from both that aren’t
I live in Idaho, no riots here. It’s a non-issue fortunately.
A mexican and a black guy get in a street fight after mutually profiling each other…the mexican thought the black guy was a thief or a vandal…the black guy and the black guy’s girlfriend thought the mexican or “creepy cracker” was a “gay rapist”.
They fought, the black guy brought skittles, the mexican guy brought a 9mm pistol.
Moral of story: Don’t street fight and if you do, don’t bring skittles to a gun fight.
Now the black racist race baiters are inciting folks to violence in many urban areas (which speech that incites violence is supposed to be illegal, but not in the 0bama Injustice Department…double standard).
God will probably forgive all involved and redeem the whole mess someday, in the meantime, if I get targeted for being white as revenge for Martin, then I’ll stop the threat or die trying.
Michael,
Thought of you when I read this article: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/07/16/leader-mexico-zetas-drug-cartel-captured-us-federal-officials-say/?test=latestnews
Hope it makes some difference down there.
http://ia601503.us.archive.org/2/items/MSlickLive/1571Matt07-02-13WithRyanTurner.mp3
Offered do bypass the joking part to about 15 minutes into the show to about 40 minutes. Interesting. Trigger warning for grief loss issues. This is Matt Slicks radio show. / pod cast
http://www.aomin.org/podcasts/20130716.mp3
Interesting and in someways moving. offered with one statement this did not work for me about the second week in the Rapaport. But it is very interesting it concerns Miss Slicks article by Dr. White of AOMIN 3 minute- 49 minute
Riddlebarger’s assessment of the impact of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa upon Orange County culture is both accurate and fair. While I do not know how deep the new movers and shakers of the southland have penetrated their culture, I do know that many who have moved away from Orange County still use their Southern California Calvary Chapel experience as the plumb bob by which they evaluate the degree of potency and doctrinal accuracy of the their current churches and ministers. In many ways, they have yet to descend from their mountain top and get past their attraction to the ecclesiastical coolness that was once Calvary.
http://netgrace.org/a-public-statement-concerning-sexual-abuse-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ/
Jim,
Thank you…just put up an article after going and signing the letter.
We all need to read it and sign it…saw a lot of the PhxP family already have.
Found two interesting articles:
http://thechristianpundit.org/2013/07/17/young-evangelicals-are-getting-high/
Not about drugs.
http://www.faithandleadership.com/node/3653