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92 Responses

  1. Jean says:

    Good Tuesday Morning,

    I would like to add one additional use of the creeds to the list provided by Trueman:
    10. Creeds and confessions, allow the congregation to participate the vocal act of worship and proclamation.

  2. Jean says:

    Link #4,

    “The answer to the decline of religious freedom and the change in the moral climate is not found in waging incessant cultural wars, filled with rage at our changing culture. Simply put, you can’t hate a people and reach a people at the same time.”

    Wow! Who would have thought?

  3. Jim says:

    Coulter uses the Howard Stern method of getting attention. I seriously doubt that she believes what she says. Either way, she’s usually wrong.

  4. Jim says:

    The Mother Jones/Hobby Lobby hit piece is garbage. We all understand what a mutual fund is, right?

  5. PP Vet says:

    When has Ann ever been wrong? Seriously. She is a delightful person. I hope you can back up the public charge you are making, that she is usually wrong. I doubt you will.

  6. Jim says:

    PP Vet…I don’t know your perspective, so I can’t tell if you’re joking.

    Never doubt that I’ll back up my big mouth with more of same 🙂

  7. From a non evangelical point of view, the articles on
    Mystery Shopping
    33 under 33
    Celebrity pastors\
    Is all about method and zero about message – this is the 21st century Finneyism

    In the Mystery Shopping article, i like the way they commission the unchurched to be the judge of sermon content.

  8. Steve Wright says:

    I saw the Hobby Lobby investments article yesterday (Mother Jones??!!)

    So let’s see. This is a 401(k) meaning it is not the owners’ investments but the employee retirement fund. As just about any corp in America they are offering their employees a variety of mutual funds that the employees can then choose to invest based on fund objectives and personal goals, based on years left before needing the retirement money.

    The complaint is that a couple companies in the hundreds represented by the mutual funds are ones like Pfizer and others involved in the contraception industry.

    Apparently, to not be hypocrites, they are supposed to only offer their employees subpar gimmicky investment vehicles with high fees and poor performance records, that the employees would then be forced to invest what is the employees money for what is the employees retirement – which is a big deal to any employee (and certainly a private matter)

    That would necessitate not offering ANY index funds too, even though index funds are consistently advised as the best vehicles (due to low internal expenses) for people with little investment knowledge and no desire to actively manage their portfolios

    Actually Hobby Lobby is being as consistent as it gets. What an employee does with their earned money is their business. (And the matching portion of the 401(k) is certainly their money too). And, like with the healthcare plan, apparently the left would rather them just eliminate any retirement plan for their employees – which knowing the left and their desire to make people dependent on government, would not be a surprise.

    We sometimes ask what a leftist is. That Mother Jones article is a textbook example. It is a hack job counting on the very low business IQ of its readers in such matters, which is probably a good bet in most cases.

  9. PP Vet says:

    I am not joking. You are a total loser.

    Ann has written ten books and several hundred columns.

    Here, I will get you started. She once confused Evan Roberts’ grandfather with his father. Yes, she was wrong that time.

    You have a lot of work to do to prove that she is “usually” wrong.

    So why not just be a man, retract your stupid statement, and I will humbly admit you are not a total loser.

  10. Michael says:

    So…I tried to find some balanced articles on the Hobby Lobby issue so we could think through this reasonably.
    There aren’t any.
    There’s right wing hack jobs and left wing hack jobs and you have to read all the hack jobs to even start to get a full picture.

  11. Michael says:

    PP Vet,

    I think she’s usually wrong and her rhetoric is a blight on the culture.
    i despise her.
    If that makes me a loser, so be it.

  12. Well, if we are going back to Hobby Lobby and Obama Care – let’s listen to the GOPs brightest mind as he says that Obamacare is worse than 911. Really???

  13. Jim says:

    PP Vet,

    Based on your response, I’ll decline debate, as I’ll lose. That’s what losers do….

    Have a nice day, and keep on “winning”.

  14. Steve Wright says:

    Michael, I think there is a difference between posting left or right leaning opinion about the court decision, and partisan charges of hypocrisy that indict millions of brothers and sisters in Christ and anyone else who buys a mutual fund, including yours truly.

    The other big “hypocrisy” argument I saw (maybe you missed) is that Hobby Lobby actually sells products made in China. That I guess you can’t have Christian convictions on the abortion issue, employ thousand of Americans and give them good benefits and pay structure and actually import anything from China.

    The next charge will probably be that the owners drive cars, despite the fact so much oil comes from the Middle East.

  15. Kevin H says:

    I’ll join Jim & Michael on the losers team and call that Coulter article absolute trash. The sad thing is that I probably have a good bit of agreement with Coulter on political issues that are actually real. But stuff like this is just plain embarrassing when written by somebody who is a popular conservative commentator.

  16. Steve Wright says:

    I agree with Jim about Coulter – she is a publicity shock jock, except she writes instead of sitting in a radio station. She is to be ignored.

  17. Going back to Ben Carson, I was just thinking that more people were killed in 911 than were killed at Pearl Harbor – hence Ben Carson would be saying that ObamaCare was worse than Pearl Harbor also.

    I think if GOPer see anything Obama, their minds scramble.

  18. Michael says:


    The rhetoric on the right is just as bad.
    On this particular issue I see more nonsense and obfuscation from the left…but not by much.

  19. Steve Wright says:

    Here’s an excellent article that seeks to cut through the rhetoric, from someone who leans left but also is not writing as a hyper-partisan

    (most of the articles from the right I am seeing are pointing out reactions from the left)

  20. Dude says:

    KJV only scholars?The men who promote this stuff are nothing more than cracked pots.The church in America has never had to suffer like the brethren in China….India and the middle east…..the I F B has entirely to much time on its hands.

  21. All I have read from left leaning articles on the Hobby Lobby case only show me that either A) they are not smart enough to realize what the case was really about or B) they want to alarm you so they lie about what it was about. Pick one…I lean towards B.
    Jim says exactly what I thought…we do know what a mutual fund is don’t we?

  22. I liked the article by Mike Andersen – A Recovering True Believer – –
    Finally someone who comes forward and owns his own problems and issues.

  23. Nonnie says:

    Sorry, I don’t know what a mutual fund is. I guess I can google it and look it up.

  24. PP Vet says:

    I think it is irresponsible to use this site to slander people by name. I have spent enough time with Ann to know what kind of person she is. She is Christian with a ministry.

    So many who come here are poster children for the statement “despising what they do not understand”.

    So yes, you are both losers in this area, because your vision is not wide enough. And when something comes along that you do not understand, you come on the Internet and attack people by name. And yes, that is despicable.

    You both fancy yourselves to be crusaders for truth and justice in the church. But you are so blind, you justify your own ignorant slander.

  25. Michael says:

    Ann Coulter has made a career of demonizing people and attacking them by name.
    I understand her quite well…and I understand that she’s a (bleeped) who specializes in attacking the “least of these’.
    If I believed she represented Christianity in any way I would abandon the faith before lunch.

    If I said what I truly think we’d have to close down the blog for purification for a week.

  26. I like my women feisty like those on TV news..

    I watched someone last night I hadn’t seen before – Rachel Maddox – she could give you a run for your money.

  27. Steve Wright says:

    Nonnie, I tried to explain in detail in my post #8

    To add a couple basics. A stock mutual fund invests in dozens (and sometimes over 100) companies based on the goal of the fund. There is a fund manager who decides which companies to invest in. Do you want small aggressive growth companies that offer greater return (but also could have greater loss). Large stable stocks like Coke, McDonalds etc. High dividend paying stocks? A blend of sorts. There are lots of funds out there, and a mutual fund family will offer a variety of funds with different objectives.

    So Hobby Lobby says “Here is X dollars to invest for your retirement. Here is an option of choices the mutual fund family provides for you to choose from to invest in based on your personal goals. It is all your choice from here”

    Employee puts money in Fund XYZ at his own choosing.

    Fund XYZ’s manager buys Pfizer (or one of the other companies cited) along with 100 other companies. Keeping in mind that the one or two objectionable products are just a sliver of a fraction compared to all that Pfizer sells.

    And that somehow is Hobby Lobby’s owners being hypocrites. I have a facebook friend who read the same Mother Jones story and concluded the owners were personally profiting from the profits made by selling abortifacients. And she is not a stupid person, but that is the conclusion she ran to from that article.

    I assure you that though Walmart is public enemy #1 to the unions that their mutual funds in their retirement plans own plenty of Walmart stock – but nobody with any sense would call them hypocrites

  28. PP Vet says:

    I actually enjoy watching Rachel Maddox from time to time. Feisty and smart indeed.

  29. Mars Hills layoffs – I have to hand it to Mars Hills, they at least have communications
    “Mars Hill wrote about the action yesterday in their weekly communication to members:”

    That was one thing you never saw at CC – when someone was gone, they were in the vapor and no one said a word and if you asked, everyone became Sgt Schultz

  30. “and concluded the owners were personally profiting from the profits made by selling abortifacients.”

    Which they are if they are members of the plan.

  31. Jean says:

    Steve, #27,

    You demonstrate a proclivity towards slanting even seemingly explanatory information towards your agenda.

    “Here is an option of choices the mutual fund family provides for you to choose from to invest in based on your personal goals.”

    The fact is the plan sponsor (i.e., the employer) chooses the mutual fund families (the vast majority of plans select funds from more than one fund family), and the plan sponsor further selects the individual mutual funds which will be offered to the employees.

    In addition, there are “socially responsible” mutual funds, which offer investors options to avoid companies which engage in a type of business that the investor feels is socially irresponsible, such as tobacco companies. Maybe this is the type of fund that your #8 describes as “subpar gimmicky investment vehicles with high fees and poor performance records.” My research indicates that there are good ones and bad ones, just like the others.

  32. Nonnie says:

    Steve, I was confused by your earlier explanation as it sounded like you were saying that each employee actually chooses every company to invest in for his/her mutual fund/retirement and Hobby Lobby has absolutely nothing to do with it.
    When I read the article, I was under the impression that the company actually has other investment companies or advisors that put together packages and the company offers those packages to the employees to invest in. If that is so, then Hobby Lobby is, indeed investing in the companies that make/distribute devices or meds that they don’t want to pay for their employees to use. That was the impression I had from the article. I’m just trying to understand it. It seems to me that a company that would take a case to the Supreme Court would also be very selective in not investing in companies that make, distribute, sell, abortion meds / devices.
    Like I said, I don’t understand this area much. Sorry, if I have just misunderstood this whole thing. Honestly, I’m not trying to flame up an argument.

  33. Ryan Ashton says:

    The “True Believer” article was STUNNING. Wow wow wow!!!

  34. Jean says:

    This is related to links #4, #7 and some of the discourse we’ve been having these past several days.

    This is not directed to anyone individually, but I would ask everyone who values this community to consider it carefully.

    Rueben P. Job, wrote a short (77 page) devotional book titled, Three Simple Rules: A Wesleyan Way of Living. The 3 simple rules are: (1) Do no harm; (2) Do good; and (3) Stay in love with God. In the chapter on “do no harm”, Job asks the following questions before answering them:

    “Is it possible to live in this complex and violent world without doing harm? Are we supposed to turn the other cheek to those who distort the truth by selective use of the facts of any given situation? Is it wise to do no harm to those who seek to harm us, our future, or our reputation? Are we able to limit our response to a way that is not destructive to those who use false and violent words that seek to harm and destroy us? Is it possible to speak the truth in love and gentleness when others seem to speak partial truth in anger and hatred?”
    “There are many reasons why we find it difficult to embrace the first of these three simple rules. But the good news is that we don’t have to make this journey alone. There is always One who stands there with us. And not only stands there but invades us with Spirit Presence and Power to practice our faith with integrity and in fidelity to the One we seek to follow.”

    If you think these concepts might be helpful, check the book out on Amazon.

    For the record, MLD, I apologize for calling you a jerk last week.

  35. Maddow

  36. Jean,
    I am sure I pushed you to that comment.
    All is well 🙂

  37. Jean says:

    MLD, Thanks. And, if you’re familiar with either of the books I mentioned on the Open Blogging thread this morning, I would value your opinion.

  38. Michael says:


    I’m not familiar with either…but free is good. 🙂
    I’m reading “Luthers Last Battles” between job applications and child rearing…

  39. It’d funny, I read very little Luther. I read more those who followed him and had to apply his teaching, while fighting off those who were stripping down the faith.

  40. passin through says:

    Ann Coulter=NITWIT

    Once again, PP Vet shows that he has the brain power and discernment of bathroom tissue.

  41. Jean says:

    Michael, I love freebies. My youngest is dating a girl who is Lutheran Missouri Synod. I’m thinking I better bone up on my Luther 🙂

  42. PP Vet says:

    I smell Lutheran

  43. You know what.
    I haven’t looked at what companies my mutual funds have in them I am sure that there are some things I would object to.
    Guess that makes me guilty.
    Is there some foolproof way to avoid completely interacting with the world that someone on here is keeping secret?
    Besides going Amish, ’cause that ain’t happening here.
    So, have you looked at your 401K investments lately.
    BTW, I have never worked for a company that chooses which mututal funds your 401K is invested in. I could always choose among funds offered by the company running the mutual fund which was not the company I worked for.

    So, explain to me how exactly these personal 401K accounts for Hobby Lobby employees are investments for Hobby Lobby? The title up there suggests that Hobby Lobby, the corporation, is making money off of it
    Morningstar is the one doing the investing of the employees money.

  44. Also, Nonnie, I am sorry if you thought my statement was offensive. I was not trying to be.

  45. PP Vet,
    I have noticed that people tend to react like this blog post I read lately.

    Not to the extreme of threatening to kill people all the time, but in attacking people instead of ideas.
    Instead of engaging anything the person has to say, they merely dismiss and call the person bad things.
    Here is an excerpt:

    Perhaps this is the root of our massive communication failure. I’ve noticed that many liberals don’t understand how it’s feasible to detest an action without detesting the actor, or how one can possibly hate an idea without hating (and wanting to punish or censor or kill) the person who articulated it. They laugh hysterically when a Christian suggests that it’s possible to condemn the homosexual act without hating the homosexual person. I’ve attempted to make this clarification so many times, and, on every occasion, I’m told that such a distinction is impossible. Hate what a person does, hate the person. It’s that simple.

  46. He uses the Naked Pastor comic as an example, because that is one person who has drawn a comic of violence against him.
    I have never liked that comic. It is mean and violent IMO.

  47. Nonnie says:

    Derek, no offense taken.

  48. PP Vet says:

    Ain’t it the truth, DT.

  49. Nonnie says:

    Oh, Derek,re your number 46: I don’ t have a 401K. (Only SS)

  50. Nonnie,
    I sort of figured you might not after considering you were in missions.

    A lot of people on here do though.

  51. Steve Wright says:

    I don’t know where Jean draws his experiences to share here – mine are drawn from 20 years in this world. I guess it is possible that a massively huge corporation might offer multiple mutual fund FAMILIES, but that would be the exception, not the rule. I worked with someone who worked for one of the largest defense contractors in America (and a publicly traded company on the NYSE) and they offered their employees ONE fund family from whom to choose products for their 401(k). Someone as relatively small, and a closely held family corp like Hobby Lobby would actually be self-defeating to offer mutual fund families, because the paperwork would be a nightmare and I question whether multiple families would all agree to work with such a corp without exclusivity.

    As far as the socially conscious funds, yes, those are the ones I called gimmicky. There is no debate they are far more expensive in fees than the average funds. And what does socially conscious mean one has to avoid anyway? Apple? McDonalds? Exxon?

    I could write more but Forbes finally got someone to write a takedown on the foolish idea promoted by Mother Jones and copied by one of Forbes own liberal (his own admission) opinion writers (which Nonnie linked to earlier in the other thread)

    It explains well for those with no background in such matters.

  52. See, I forgot about the extra separation separation between the person, the mutual fund and the stock purchase by the fund.
    Thank you for reminding me, Steve.
    That was a good article. Sharing it on FB.

  53. Papias says:

    Derek – thanks for that link to Matt Walsh’s blog.

    I have no clue what my Mutual Funds are doing besides making money. Or not. I wish that I would have gone all in with my money and bought Phillip Morris stock when I had the chance.

  54. Michael says:

    Coulter doesn’t engage in ideas…she engages in vitriol against specific people and groups and what she says is pure hate by any definition.
    The only people who support her are those who hate the same people she does.

    Coulter on the right and that fraud Al Sharpton on the left are two sides of the same coin.

  55. Nonnie says:

    Thanks for the article, Steve. Did you read the comments? Very interesting as well.

  56. Guess what, I don;t agree with Coulter all the time either.
    But, a lot of the time I do.
    Which is why her articles are only put on here when they are “deemed” outrageous.
    Put some up where people might agree with her and see what the reaction might be.

    BTW, I don’t care for soccer either. 😉

  57. PP Vet says:

    She does not hate anybody. She uses hyperbole. It is a shtick.

    You might as well accuse Don Rickles of hating people.

  58. Steve Wright says:

    (which Nonnie linked to earlier in the other thread)
    Nonnie, that was just a statement, not an indictment. There is no reason you should be knowledgeable about such things, just as I would be ignorant on many things of which you know much about (and have shared here to my benefit)

    So forgive me if by chance my comment here seemed like an attack. It was not meant as such. My criticism is on the authors at Forbes and Mother Jones responsible for such an article.

  59. Michael says:


    I consider her a dangerous and loathsome human being.
    If you want to smear her excrement on the web, you have a blog.
    The only reason I put this one up is that it’s so wrong in so many ways that it’s funny.

  60. Nonnie says:

    Steve, no offense taken at all.

  61. Steve Wright says:

    Nonnie, I read the comments. What a mixed bag. I weep at people who can get so passionate about any issue and be so absolutely clueless. One guy on there actually thinks that buying a mutual fund with a portion of its assets in a stock like Pfizer is investing into Pfizer itself (and of course in order for them to research new abortion products)

    I trust all know that when you buy a stock (or buy shares in an ETF or mutual fund that holds stocks) the company is not going to get your money.

    You buy shares from someone selling shares of the same company and the NYSE or NASDAQ serve as the regulated markets to make the exchange happen between buyer and seller (so you can’t sell stock on EBAY for example)

    More buyers than sellers, stock prices go up etc.

    On the flip side, one of the best comments was the reminder that it actually is a violation of the fiduciary liability to offer only limited funds, based on the bias of the employer….the reason of course is what we have said all is THEIR money to invest for THEIR retirement and the government (rightly) is not going to allow a 401(k) plan where the boss says you people can only invest in my particular choices for you.

  62. Michael says:

    The more I read about this, the more troubled I get.
    The left is doing on this issue what I’ve seen the right do on other issues…which is lie like a dog and completely distort the issue.
    This company never stopped offering contraception, so contraception wasn’t and isn’t the issue.
    No woman could be denied contraception not covered by the company, so that’s not an issue.
    If those are clearly and provably not issues, then what is the real issue?
    I can see the “slippery slope” argument…but they stopped arguing that after five minutes.
    A society can only survive this sort of discourse for so long…

  63. PP Vet says:

    It’s a shtick! You have a shtick (angry, threatening, harsh). I have the “PP Vet” shtick.

    Truth is, all three of us are gentle souls that would genuinely love each other if we spent 15 minutes together.

    Behind her shtick, and your shtick, and my shtick, is an agenda that each of us honestly believes is at some level redemptive. And maybe even fun.

  64. PP Vet says:

    What is sad is, I suspect, is that some of us have a Christian shtick that gets us thru life but is not really us. How sad indeed.

  65. I just read the article that said the majority of people say that religion can solve today’s problems. It just goes to show you how wrong a majority can be.

    Christianity’s God of the Bible alone can solve today’s problems … but all other religions are false religions, worshiping false gods who cannot do anything to help anyone with their problems..

  66. The issue is control and who wields it.
    That is what it is always about.

    I am actually thinking about voting for the democrat in the Mississippi Senate election.
    He is pro-life, pro-gun and actually voted against Obamacare when he was a representative for the district I am in.
    I think I can live with that.
    I couldn’t vote for him if he was pro abortion, but he actually got an endorsement from National Right to Life.
    After all, they will all spend our money badly, just some at a quicker pace than others.
    I think this will be my protest vote against the GOP powers that be.

    Thad Cochran is an institution in this state and a backroom power man. He will betray principle in a minute. The hijinks he was up to in this election were just flat out wrong.
    He won by 7000 votes and they have already found 1500 duplicate votes in Hinds County alone.
    Duplicate votes means people voted who were ineligible due to having already voted in the Democratic Primary.

  67. erunner says:

    “Christianity’s God of the Bible alone can solve today’s problems … but all other religions are false religions, worshiping false gods who cannot do anything to help anyone with their problems..”

    MLD hit it on the proverbial head!!

  68. Jean says:

    I don’t know; looks like MLD plagiarized someone. Oh, I know who: the apostle Paul! Good work!

  69. erunner says:

    Jean, A few of the prophets as well!

  70. Jean says:

    erunner, Amen!

  71. Steve Wright says:

    Derek…serious question. Can you write in McDaniel?

    I don’t blame you for not voting for Cochran after that nonsense last week. Frankly, I hope the whole stinkin’ Senate hinges on that race and the Dems win it to keep Harry Reid another 2 more years – stick McCain and the rest of the Cochran supporters in the minority a little longer and make the party power brokers wake up or go away into irrelevance

  72. brian says:

    I wont go into it but I do find Miss Coulter’s rhetoric offensive and it has deeply hurt many people. I found her comment that “Christians are on the fast track” when she was discussing religion with a commentator who was of the Jewish faith. She has said and written some very vile things about public educators, which I hear expressed from some conservative groups. I know its hyperbole and its a schtick and what makes that schtick holy and sacred is that she makes money. The same goes for the bill maher but he makes money to so I should not be offended about what he does either. But I am, deeply offended the way he treats religion and people of faith.

  73. PP Vet says:

    b, I just watched the Coulter “fast track” interview. She said she believes Jews should believe in Jesus (become perfected). What she said in that interview was simply orthodox Christian doctrine.

    I am sick of the politically correct “never say an unkind word” garbage. Which is why I enjoy this site.

    People come here and dump all sorts of vitriol on people and ministries that I respect.

    I do not whine about the vitriol, but at times I do come back with the facts.

    Jesus called Herod a fox, He seemed to address Peter as Satan, and He had some choice words for the Pharisees. He talked a lot like Ann Coulter, really.

    Life is tough, people are evil, and sometimes harsh words are called for. Always, of course, in love.

  74. I agree with PP Vet and that really was the meaning of my #69 and people just lumping us in with “religion” and “The religious” (and I do not mean the ‘Christianity isn’t a religion it’s a relationship’ crap)

    I mean that we need to separate ourselves as different from the others – so that when people say “oh you Christians think you are right and everyone else is wrong” that we say, “yep”

  75. Jean says:

    MLD #78, PP Vet #77,

    I agree with MLD’s statement:

    “I mean that we need to separate ourselves as different from the others – so that when people say “oh you Christians think you are right and everyone else is wrong” that we say, “yep”” as far as it goes, but it doesn’t go far enough.

    (1) In my opinion, it’s not enough to be a people who have “right” thoughts, who let everyone else know what we think or how their thoughts are wrong. Our separateness must also be manifest in the rightness of our living witness. Outsiders are not going to be drawn to the gospel through argumentation or ideas alone. I believe to persuade people that Christians really are different in a way that is good news, Christians must live out their faith towards each other and towards outsiders in ways that are redemptive.

    (2) Everything that Jesus and Paul say is cannon and must be taken seriously. However, we need to interpret their teaching and lives in context. If Jesus or Paul uses harsh words, who are they talking to or about? Is it an “insider” or its it an outsider? In the many sermons included within Acts to outsiders, I don’t see the apostles using vitriol against the people to whom they are evangelizing or the government.

    (3) We should remember that Jesus was perfect, sinless. He had the ability to judge other people perfectly without any hypocrisy, ulterior motives, conflicts of interest, etc. I think we need to be careful about exclaiming righteous indignation to or about anyone, much less nonbelievers, because I question whether we are ever righteous. That doesn’t mean we don’t speak truth in love or take an anything goes attitude about moral issues. It simply means that (a) outsiders need a relationship with Jesus before the Spirit will convict them of their sin, and (b) insiders should be admonished in the manner taught in the NT.

  76. Some things I think from the Hobby Lobby decision.
    1. People are angry and looking for opportunities to manifest it
    2. Religious convictions are unwelcome in public expression
    3. Irrationality knows no bounds
    4. Our culture is producing people who are unable to think
    5. Fear drives people far more than facts

  77. Jean.
    My POV isn’t about me just walking up to people on the street and making my proclamations – this is something I would never do – hard to believe, but when it comes to my faith, I speak when spoken to.

    What I am talking about in #69 & #78 is when others try to lump us all together, as the same (those religious people) or those who try to say one faith is as good as any other – then I speak up and say, “I am not like them”

    Let me put it this way, there are 2 types of baseball fans
    1.) Dodgers fans
    2.) and those who like sub par baseball teams 🙂

  78. Jean says:

    That’s cool MLD, I was just adding my voice to the discussion, because one of the problems I see in some parts of American Christianity is that we’re really good at doctrine, division and judgment, but not so good at the other parts of the gospel. I wanted to include the other parts, because I didn’t think the statement I quoted was complete.

  79. The mountain of witnesses concerning Mars Hill is growing. Nevertheless I always wonder who is giving witness. Mike Anderson’s self-identification is helpful but every pastor has critics. Frankly many of our critics are people with problems who refused reconciliation or who unfortunately are mentally and emotionally ill. I have no knowledge of Anderson and appreciate his mea culpa in the midst of his indictment of MD. At least he owns a piece of it.

    Now, as for MD, apparently his hubris is boundless and apparently it is attractive to a wide audience. If it is of the sort that hides dark secrets then we will end up with another public spectacle. I think we should hope and pray not even while we call for reparations and justice.

    This story is increasingly disturbing.

  80. Michael says:


    The problem with your statement is that it assumes that dishonesty and the abuse of power is not as wicked as “dark secrets”…

  81. Papias says:

    “As I left the bar and walked down stairs I ran into Tim Keller—he’s a much taller man than you might think—and I stopped to introduce myself.
    “Hi, I’m Mike Anderson. I’m the director of the Resurgence.”
    He paused. Looked me in the eye. Took his gigantic hand and hit me hard in the chest with the tip of his finger.
    “Son,” he said “The Resurgence will not be directed.”
    He was right.”

    I think that MD thinks that he’s doing the Lord’s work the best way he knows how to.

    Whether that’s led of the Spirit or not is what’s open for discussion.

  82. Steve @ #75,
    He hasn’t announced a write in candidacy yet. He is still attempting to challenge the republican primary results.
    I was sick of the robo calls, but Cochran’s were the worst.
    All Cochran did was try to make the Tea Party and McDaniels look racist.
    When you call the Tea Party racists then you call my parents racist and homie don’t play that.
    Even my dad, who is a Tea Party man, is talking about voting for Travis Childers, the democrat also.
    I just want Cochran, a man of low character, gone at this point.

  83. Hey, it’s Boxing night on ESPN – anyone else watching?

  84. Nope.

  85. Michael,

    That was not intentional. Abuse of power IS the presenting dark secret. I still have trouble these days hearing one side of any story. Every pastor has loses in the people area that he wishes he could fix. Of course it doesn’t look like these qualify on the Hill

  86. brian says:

    This is truly tragic.

  87. filbertz says:

    well, I can attest that Coulter is wrong. My great-grandfather was born here, as of course my sons’ great-grandfathers were, and we all have been watching the World Cup games. In fact, I sat in a Buffalo Hot Wings franchise in Portland and had a grand time cheering on the USA in their loss to Belgium. Perhaps she could have a second career selling Avon.

  88. brian says:

    Ann Coulter generates revenue, this means anything she does is above approach in fact it should be extolled and repeated because it works. It is the Gospel of utilitarianism. The ends justifies the means, yes it does, always and twice on Sunday. I dont agree with that but I am an apostate and need to repent.

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