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40 Responses

  1. Xenia says:

    I was also going to post a link on *The Wrong Kind of Christian* and I am glad Michael linked to it. The author would not be considered by most of us to be “our kind” of Christian. She is an ordained Episcopal priest who probably holds many ideas that many of us here would consider too liberal. Yet this mild form of Christianity was still too Christian for those who wish to see Christianity exterminated. She thought her form of Christianity was a reasonable faith that would offend no one but her university thought otherwise. This should be a wake up call for those who think only zealots are harassed. Just believing in the literal Resurrection of Christ is too much for some.

    In a way, Christians are being hoisted on their own petards. We (rightly) advocate love and tolerance but in the hands of unbelievers, this charitable Christian doctrine can be used for great evil.

  2. London says:

    I think the ice bucket challenge is brilliant!

  3. Xenia – Michael,
    That was a good article, but I don’t see the issue. The Inter Varsity group wants acceptance and to be able to blend in culturally – along with the benefits as a registered group.

    But hey, what about the cultural differences – why smooth them over. If nothing else, we should be surprised that we have not been kicked off every campus.

    Who would put up with people declaring their doctrinal statement “I believe that a man who was once dead is now alive and rules the universe.”

    Try that the next time someone asks you what you believe – I have been using that line for a couple of years, makes for some great facial expressions and sometimes even a conversation.

  4. Steve Wright says:

    Liked the Vanderbilt article too – and posted it on my facebook.

  5. Steve Wright says:

    Ehrman and Crossley will reject explanations of the miracle stories that involve them having actually happened. Gathercole and Wright will reject explanations that involve them not having actually happened.
    Great point from the inerrancy article. Which is why it is important to have at least a general idea of the person’s “starting point” that we choose to study.

  6. papiaslogia says:

    “But what we were being told was that you are beyond the pale, not just that you’re wrong, but that respect for you is wrong. And so that was heard loud and clear in the conservative Protestant world. Loud and clear. It was enormously discouraging. It was sort of a sense of it’s not just that you’re going to disagree with us, but basically you are saying we really don’t even have a right to be in the public square.”

    I so appreciate Tim Keller’s statements on this subject. Very true.

  7. Babylon's Dread says:

    How can anyone think the 10s of millions of dollar ice bucket challenge was a bad thing… I just said no that’s all. NO.

    Um NO! Said Dread

  8. Babylon's Dread says:

    Is this No Driscoll Day? I clicked on “Grace and Salvation” … one can hope…

  9. Babylon's Dread says:

    Should we refer to Mr Driscoll as “Marked” from now on?

    Cain Dread

  10. Michael says:

    First, thanks to EricL for helping out with some links this week.

    I have come across some new info that disturbs me greatly on the Driscoll matter and I need to take counsel with my own soul and my counselors before I say much more, if I speak at all.

  11. JoelG says:

    ISIS: Is it possible to love your enemy and hope they get wiped off the face of the earth?

  12. “ISIS: Is it possible to love your enemy and hope they get wiped off the face of the earth?”

    I think it is. I chalk it up to save them from themselves.

    Pray the Imprecatory psalms – they are music to my ears.

  13. Jim says:

    The unveiled build up for war from our leaders and the press disgusts me. We will never, ever learn from our mistakes until we are unable to defend our own nation.

  14. EricL says:

    I found the series of articles on systemic injustice to be sobering. They reveal the Ferguson killing/ riots from the perspective of some African-American Christians. It is easy for me to miss what these events can mean and symbolize to others and how it can pick at half-healed scars from past injustices.

  15. Xenia says:

    MLD wrote that “The Inter Varsity group wants acceptance and to be able to blend in culturally – along with the benefits as a registered group.”

    Yeah, you’re right, Christians should not expect the world’s institutions to cater to our needs. But for a long time here in America, they did and now they don’t. I think the interesting point of the Vanderbilt article is the author had believed that her moderate Episcopal / InterVarsity Fellowship brand of Christianity was so reasonable and tolerant that no reasonable and tolerant person would object to it. But she believes in the Resurrection of Christ and that was crazy talk to the leaders of her university. Increasingly, belief in the supernatural is considered crazy talk.

    And Vanderbilt University in located in the Bible Belt.

  16. Xenia says:

    The article by Tim Keller rings so true. A quote:

    “It used to be that the devout and the mushy middle — nominal Christians, people that would identify as Christians, people who would come to church sporadically, people who certainly respect the Bible and Christianity — the devout and the mushy middle together was a super majority of people who just created a kind of “Christian-y” sort of culture.

    The mushy middle used to be more identified with the devout. Now it’s more identified with the secular. That’s all.”

  17. Xenia says:

    So this cushion formed by the “mushy middle” that Tim Keller wrote about is disappearing. This means that as the culture more and more rejects Christianity and us- that is, no longer even pretends to be respectful and tells us that not only do they not agree with us but they are not even going to do us the courtesy of respecting our opinions- it is going to be more uncomfortable to be a Christian. We can’t assume that many of the little perks and pleasantries that we used to receive from the culture at large will continue. We should be prepared for just the opposite. I think this will be good for our souls in the long run.

  18. Jean says:

    “ISIS: Is it possible to love your enemy and hope they get wiped off the face of the earth?”

    “We must stop being evil, and we must stop evil from destroying, but how can we stop evil without becoming evil in the process? That may well be the [most difficult] human question.”

    – Klyne R. Snodgrass, Stories with Intent: A Comprehensive Guide to the Parables of Jesus [from his discussion of the Parable of the Wheat and the Weeds]

  19. Xenia,
    “But she believes in the Resurrection of Christ and that was crazy talk to the leaders of her university. Increasingly, belief in the supernatural is considered crazy talk. ”

    I find it funny that you never see Jewish groups being banned from anything like this. Why? because the don’t believe anything. Although many Christian groups like to think that Jews read / believe their bibles and with just an extra ounce of knowledge they would jump at following jesus – this just is not true.

    Most Jews deny what the religion teaches – hence, no grief from the universities.

  20. I will say one thing for Vandy’s policy – it applies to everyone. If I were back in my younger days and still cared – I would have all the Christians join the feminist campus groups – gain majorities, get in leadership positions and then change the policies, especially make the feminist group become a vocal pro life entity.

    Then see how Vandy handles those types of ‘inclusion’

  21. Xenia says:

    I wonder if Vanderbilt had a vegan or vegetarian club and some scoffers (big meat eaters who laugh at vegetarianism) joined the club in numbers that out-weighed the veg-heads and got elected to the leadership and started serving pork chops at all the club meetings.

  22. Xenia says:

    But you know, the enemies of Christ are not interested in disrupting vegetarian clubs, they want to eradicate Christianity. But God will use things like this to separate out the sheep from the goats.

  23. EricL says:

    The ironic part of the Vanderbilt U story is that they have a divinity school that “seeks to fulfill the following objectives: to engage in theological inquiry; to help persons prepare for the practice of Christian ministry and public leadership; to encourage personal and spiritual formation; to prepare agents of social justice; and to educate future scholars and teachers, locally and globally.”

    They are a private institution that can set their own parameters, but I wish they would leave out the claim to “Christian ministry”.

  24. Steve Wright says:

    But you know, the enemies of Christ are not interested in disrupting vegetarian clubs, they want to eradicate Christianity
    Amen, and along those lines the ones serious about following Christ are not wasting time joining groups they do not really align with just to be troublemakers.

    But it sure would be tempting.

  25. Jean says:

    “The Wrong Kind of Christian…”

    It’s regrettable that among the University faculty who are Christian and the Divinity School, where one would assume the vast majority of the faculty are Christians, that large numbers (if any numbers) of faculty didn’t organize against the administration rule. It appears from the article that most were more interested in protecting their reputation or position than standing up for their faith.

  26. Between sweetness and nausea…
    Good article by Timothy George

  27. I don’t know what the big deal is about the ice bucket challenge.
    Lutherans have been pouring water on people even before it was cool … and we include everyone. 😉

  28. Babylon's Dread says:

    I agree with MLD … they got the ICE thing down too

  29. Steve Wright says:

    I thought Ice was on our pre-tribber team, not the Lutherans 🙂

  30. brian says:

    “Fake Piper @FakePiper · Aug 25
    I find the term “victims of spiritual abuse” needlessly inflammatory. I prefer the term “collateral damage of sound theology”.

    This made me chuckle fake piper and fake driscoll are very right on in some areas.

  31. Erik says:

    The only problem here is that—unknowingly for most—this very “ice bucket” challenge is contributing to the ongoing destruction of human life—intentionally.

    The ALS association is actively funding embryonic stem-cell research and admitting that they likely will continue to do so in the future. The funding of embryonic stem-cell research means that little babies are created and at their earliest stages of life they are destroyed so that the stem cells (from usually the base of the brain) can be harvested to perform tests.

  32. Thereason says:
  33. Back to the Ice Bucket challenge – picked this up from some Lutheran FB friends

    the ‪#‎icebucketchallenge‬ in a way looks like some kind of post-modern baptism without g–d:
    1. it’s done publicly
    2. it’s a commitment for the good
    3. it’s done in connection with a deadly disease, so it is in a way about salvation from death
    4. one can not simply do it by oneselve but one must be nominated by someone, or chosen
    5. one becomes part of a global community
    6. it includes a commitment to a changed life
    7. It is missionary and calls others also to perform on this „baptism“
    8. it has a contingent of people who say that it doesn’t really do anything
    9. it can be viewed as an outward symbol of something that was already decided on (donating to als)

    To which someone added;
    8) it has a contingent of people who say that it doesn’t really do anything
    9) it can be viewed as an outward symbol of something that was already decided on (donating to ALS)

    Added again –
    If that’s the case, then: 10) many people will complain that a majority of ice bucket challenges are not valid because they didn’t do it right.

    and one more
    “One cannot simply dump ice water on ones head to be saved, one must do x) and y) and z) also in order to be accepted into the fold.”

    We are a playful bunch 😉

  34. Anonymos says:

    A video with facts. Haha. good one.

    Don’t confuse most of the peple on here with facts. their minds already made up. their opinios are their god.

  35. Nonnie says:

    ALS is a horrible disease and with the ice bucket challenge going around, why not do it and give some money to any charity of your choice that serves the ALS community, rather than be viewed (once again) as judgmental, stick in the mud Christians. We have chosen to give money to a family that is walking through the valley of ALS. Come on, people! Love God and love your neighbours….to me this is a win win. No one is making us give to an organisation that is using aborted babies for research. Step out of the box and get creative, people.

  36. Michael says:


    Your #35 is gold…that’s what I wanted to say in the first place.
    Thank you.

  37. Steve B says:

    Let’s see, the ice bucket challenge, where to begin:

    1) I have no interest in 2-minutes of fame.
    2) Dousing oneself with water does not increase one’s awareness of an illness, try a medical journal.
    3) Wasting water in a severe drought is selfish.
    4) Dumping water on one’s person so you can “get out of” paying a larger sum of money to a charity you feel is a worthy cause seems counter intuitive.
    5) I’m not sure ‘letting my light shine before men’ includes water saturation & reduced charity payments.

  38. Steve Wright says:

    My understanding of the bucket challenge was that by putting ice water (heavy on the ice) and then not just running to the Jacuzzi or grabbing a towel, but sitting there one would experience, albeit briefly, the sensation of having one’s muscles “freeze” and the motor skills diminished and thus a small peak at what daily life for the ALS sufferer is about.

    Thus, the connection to the donations. If one did not donate, one had to feel for a moment what it is like to suffer this disease. Don’t want to experience that feeling? Then donate towards a cure.

    I’ve only read this detailed explanation in one source, but it does explain both items #2 and #4 in the above list.

  39. Michael says:

    Bottom line…it’s done a tremendous job of raising public awareness and funds…and bringing hope to people who need it.
    That’s worth celebrating.

  40. London says:

    Oh for @%#* sake people!!
    The ice bucket is a bit of summer cool down fun mixed with a brilliant fundraiser campaign!
    Lighten the hell up

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