Loose Ends

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54 Responses

  1. “The foremost job of the shepherd is to guard the sheep from wolves who would fleece the flock spiritually and financially.”

    …yet ChuckSr & Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa welcomed Chuck Missler and his whackadoodle conspiracy theories and musings.

    Nothing has changed, it never will, which is why critical thinking, scholarship and constantly checking one’s assumptions is vital.

  2. Michael says:


    It is changing…we are in the midst of a change in eras.
    This is the process of deciding what the new one will look like.

  3. Kevin H says:

    I posted some thoughts on this same Throckmorton article on Facebook earlier today. I plagiarize my own thoughts here:

    This report done on Gospel for Asia (GFA) by a financial auditor on his own time looks really, really bad. Just look at the pie chart! He put together the report from all the financial information that is made publicly available by GFA (much of the information comes from publicly available tax forms that are legally required to be completed).

    Now there may be answers and explanations to what looks like serious financial discrepancies. Maybe there are pieces missing to the puzzle that GFA can fill in. Unfortunately, up to this point, GFA has chosen not to address any of this with answers or explanations or countering information of any significance. Their continued silence does not look good.

    As I have written before, I did speak personally with a GFA rep who is pretty high up in the organization. I expressed a few of my concerns. I did not press hard on his answers and explanations as my intent was not to try to get to the bottom of every single detail, but to simply let them know that as a donor, I was concerned. However, I have since come to learn that some of the answers given to me differed from answers given to some others. Yet another hit to GFA’s credibility.

    And this posting is just primarily about financial concerns. This does not even address many of the other concerns of the 80+ member GFA Diaspora group, made up of mainly former GFA staff members, ( http://www.gfadiaspora.com ) that GFA has more or less given dismissive responses to so far. GFA has tried to reach out to some of the people individually in the group to try to make amends. However, they have not addressed the overriding concerns that the group primarily wants them to address. Concerns of systemic abusive and over-controlling and cult-like behavior. Concerns of systemic deceptive behaviors towards their staff and donor base in order to protect their ministry.

    The longer this goes on, the worse this looks for GFA. GFA needs to give some honest and credible and illuminating answers to these public concerns. The longer they go without giving answers, the more I get concerned that they don’t because they can’t.

  4. Michael,
    Agreed, yet there remains a disturbing element to the traveling religious minstrel show being done in the name of Jesus. When I moved away from the Bay Area I had left our local dingbat, Mario Murillo and Resurrection City and his incessant pentecostal hype at every meeting, only to discover the local regional stuff here in Southern California. Calvary Chapel, under ChuckSr, grew it’s star entertainers and the only thing really going on is a new set of comics and storytellers showing up in CC pulpits and conferences.

    It’s like this across the board in every facet of humanity, so we really should accept it as nothing new or shocking.

  5. Kevin H says:

    P.S. Michael: It’s Yohannan, not Yohannon.

    Kind of like the Brodersen/Broderson thing.

  6. em says:

    Sarah’s Small Rain is worth a read… centering thoughts

  7. Michael says:


    Took me years to get ‘Brodersen” right… 🙂

  8. Papias says:

    Good thoughts from Michael, Matthew, and Sarah today!

    Be Blessed!

    G-Man – Missler was fine when he did Bible studies, but when he drew a bigger crowd for the “other stuff”. It was said that PC asked that Missler just teach the Bible….

  9. once a cc guru says:

    They’re all in cahoots together in the “jesus monry business” and well you know, the show must go on because.. ,

    “There’s no busine$$ like show busine$$”

    Just gimme more of that jesus money!

  10. Tim - Doulos says:

    I have to admit, this has me really concerned. I had known about KP’s move towards a more visible episcopacy a while back & it bothered me, but I still was glad that the gospel was being proclaimed by the GFA field missionaries we support. Now I wonder if our GFA missionaries are actually receiving the funds we have been sending them.

  11. Michael says:


    I’m glad you’re asking these questions and I hope your tribe increases.
    I can’t imagine why anyone would host K.P. until there are good answers.

  12. EricL says:

    This story keeps becoming more bizarre. Is it time for another Protest? For us to once again become Protestants? But this time, not against the Roman Catholic church. This time it will be a protest against the Established Elite of our own house, the Power Brokers who have mistreated the church as badly as they did in Luther’s days.

    Is it time to nail up our Theses electronically? I think the list may go longer than 95.

  13. Brandon says:

    Just curious – is the GFA Diaspora not working for anyone else? Can’t get it to load…

  14. Brandon says:

    Actually never mind. It’s links as .org above but its a .com. Should have tried that sooner. Sorry for the distraction 🙂

  15. em says:

    ” …..it will be a protest against the Established Elite of our own house, the Power Brokers who have mistreated the church as badly as they did in Luther’s days.”

    even after Luther, the Protestant world quickly moved into elitism and currying favor with the kings of the day… most of the early move away from orthodoxy-so-called was due to the establishment churches’ marginalizing the “common man,” the folk who could supply the clerics with no material gain of any kind… or at least that is what i’ve read – not quite old enough to say i was an eye witness

    my sense is that the corruption of power is endemic in the human race – that the Faith survives ought to prove its efficacy and source – or so it seems to me – dunno, tho, do u?

  16. Kevin H says:

    Brandon: My mistake on the GFA Diaspora link. You are right, it should be .com, not .org.

    Michael, If you see this and get the chance, can you correct that in my comment #3? Thanks.

  17. Michael says:

    Fixed it…

  18. Papias,
    “Missler was fine when he did Bible studies…”

    I was his music/worship leader for a number of years.
    Gotta say, he rarely stuck to the text because he presented, he strung together the most amazingly unrelated passages to arrive at his vision of what he thought was truth.
    In retrospect it was about a presentation of :: his :: conclusions & agendas instead of letting the text speak for itself.

  19. EricL says:

    em @15,
    You are right, the fact that faith survives the abusers as it does gives evidence of its efficacy and source. Well said.

    God works through us, even the deeply flawed. Nonetheless, just because some have been saved or helped through GFA, we can’t just ignore this troubling stuff. Thank you, Michael, for taking the time to shine a needed spotlight into this dark corner. Now watch the roaches scurry everywhere…

  20. brian says:


    This is truly cool, I lack the spiritual insight and integrity to do this as I would feel horrible and totally guilty, another reason Im not that spiritual. I admire this, I was really trying to find the park were the preachers start dancing through the money without all the negative nonsense about how this is against the bible and it is not what Jesus would do.

  21. DavidM says:

    Speaking of Missler and his “whackadoodle” (What an apt word!) theories, I wonder if anyone has ever vetted all of his bloated claims about his past. For years I would hear him talk about being on the Boards of Directors of 12 major corporations. I, for one, never believed it, as he always seemed to me to be trying to pull the wool over everyone’s eyes.

    It would be difficult to do, but I do wonder if he has ever been vetted, or if he has ever given the names of the corporations, his actual position, and the exact time frame.

  22. em says:

    weighing in a Missler… the man is very intelligent, but maybe a bit hyperactive? … that said, it is easy to get on the boards of companies that are looking to make their roster more impressive … doesn’t mean much
    i’ve caught him on the radio a couple times lately and i am convinced he really does love the Lord and does teach pretty accurate these days, Israel aside, if one wishes… he’s a brother
    so, while i agree that it is fine for G to say – in so many words – “I was there and he was whackadoodle” – it just may be time to find a place to file away all that old “the end is upon us now” whackadoodle frenzy

    … the end probably IS soon BTW – sure feels like the end up here… it is HOT – reminds me that i don’t want to go to hell 🙂

  23. Judy says:

    If this is the work of God and He is pressing GFA to come clean, they cannot run and they cannot hide. What God makes straight, no one can make crooked. If this is the work of God, and I believe it is a part of the judgment that has come on the church, then it is time for them to clean up their house. They can go down the long road that MH did or they can walk into the light.

  24. Eric says:

    There is enough online discussion now that a good number of the people who attend tonight will be aware of all this. Including the other speakers. If the matter is not mentioned it may well be a bit of an elephant in the room.

    I can imagine a speaker saying “there’s a man here tonight who has been dishonest in his business dealings… God sees it all and it will come to light one way or another… you need to die to yourself, admit your sins and bring everything above board”

  25. Xenia says:

    I took a look at the GFA pie chart and I have a few questions.

    1. I don’t know much about GFA. Is it one of those organizations where you adopt a child and send in monthly upkeep checks? You get a picture and maybe a letter?

    2. If so, I think a lot of donations would be for this purpose. I don’t see a category for this on the pie chart. I see a generic “child welfare” category, but not one for sponsorship.

    3. Is it possible that the vast yellow slice of the pie chart that is marked “unaccounted for” could be sponsorship donations?

  26. Surfer51 says:

    My wife and I were discussing the flag removal and such.

    We came to the same conclusion as Sarah.

    Removing the outward symbols will never change the inward heart.

    Jesus tells us the same thing in His frustration with the Pharisees.

    “Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.”

    Matthew 23:26

  27. Muff Potter says:

    So long as Calvary Chapel has docile and compliant sheeple who respond well when the Bible is used as a whip and a club (and the fourth person of the Trinity), the dollars will continue to roll in and the elite will continue to make handsome livings. Question is, how long can they last in this day and age of internet exposure?

  28. Kevin H says:


    Yes, GFA has a large child sponsorship program. It’s not the only thing they do, but it’s a large element. I would hope that a large portion of the “unaccounted” is for the children. But GFA needs to start giving some answers. Because their publicly available information does not look kosher.

  29. Surfer51 says:

    The gospel message is the only message that can change a life for all eternity.

    I can speak Christianese, I can look like a Christian and i can do like a Christian but if I am not Born again it means nothing at all.

    Nicodemus was a failure because he cleaned the outside only…Jesus got right to the root of the matter.

    Removing flags and such is only going to make the people who honor that flag more angry and hostile than they already are.

    They need to be born again through the gospel message( Born again-Jesus own words).


  30. Xenia says:

    That flag is very offensive to very many people. I believe they have a right to find it offensive.

    I would take it down. Sure, we could wait til everyone became a born-again Christian but until that happens, take it down.

    Symbols matter.

  31. A Friend says:

    Well done and amen.

  32. em says:

    well… the flag… Stars and Bars, is that what it’s called? … i tend to agree that it’s only official resting place should be in a museum… something that i just came across was how the Civil War wound down – it was very untidy
    General Lee surrendered in April of 1865, President Davis went on the lam and had to be captured 2 months later – there were all kinds of rag tag groups with their own wars going against the Federal Government and it wasn’t until August 1866 that President Johnson finally declared Peace to be established in the nation…
    i don’t think the South was wrong to fight for State’s Rights – but they lost and the good that came out of all that bloodshed was the abolishment of slavery
    IMV, far worse than slavery was the segregation that followed – Lord have mercy, or not as You see fit – is that the mindset that now wants to claim the flag of the Confederacy? i don’t think it is or ever was theirs to claim…

  33. Surfer51 says:

    Well…then lets go after the rainbow flag of the gay Reich next…LOL

    You can take away all the outward symbols you want…it anin’t gonna change anything at all.

  34. Xenia says:

    If symbols don’t matter, if the confederate flag is a symbol and doesn’t matter, why are people fighting so hard to keep something that doesn’t matter?

  35. Erik says:

    Because its the principal of taking “anything” away. You give an inch they will take a mile ( could be something very valuable) and history proves this narrative.

  36. passin throgh says:

    Symbols certainly do matter. Ask an African American what the Confederate flag means to them. How tough is that to imagine?

    Know what Dylan Storm Roof and John Wilkes Booth had/have in common?

    Both were out and out racists. Both thought the “South should do it again” — subjugate blacks.

    Symbols aren’t the whole thing — but good grief, they certainly count.

  37. passin throgh says:

    I used to think Bible was clear about everything —

    Until I heard about a book by a history profesor, Mark Noll. It’s about the Civil War and how Christians on either side of the divide were both firmly convinced that they were right,
    by God!

  38. Rick says:

    This may be a product of my natural cynicism–for some reason the titles that KP conferred on himself as head of the Believers Church troubles me as much as the 10’s of millions of dollars that are not accounted for.

    And yet, I am hesitant to stop our contribution to GFC on the off chance that it is actually getting to the mission field. Cynical, yet gullible–a good thing I can laugh at myself.

  39. Fool me once says:

    And yet, I am hesitant to stop our contribution to GFC on the off chance that it is actually getting to the mission field. Cynical, yet gullible–a good thing I can laugh at myself.


  40. Andrew says:

    I just checked out the Calvary Chapel Downey web site to see if they did any rescinding of GFA or K.P Yohannan. I didn’t see that but did see that they recently had a 3-day Vision 2015 conference with the usual cast of characters. Maybe during their Vision for 2015 God told them to have a Mission’s conference with K.P. Not!!!!!!

  41. Jim Vander Spek says:

    The confederate flag is offensive. Agreed. The cross is offensive. Don’t we agree? Freedom is a fragile thing.

  42. Papias says:

    G-Man – “In retrospect it was about a presentation of :: his :: conclusions & agendas instead of letting the text speak for itself.”

    Tell me a preacher/teacher who lets the text speak for itself and I’ll ……you get the idea. 🙂

  43. Papias,
    On this subject, some have more integrity than others.
    After years of hearing ChuckSr represent himself and his movement being all about being faithful to teaching the bible, the promotion & support of Missler is a huge disconnect from those enunciated core values.

  44. Andrew says:

    Actually I think the entire Mose Model principal in the movement that ChuckSr embraced was in reality a promotion of self with an inherent inclusion with accolades with those that have promoted themselves the best (i.e. large congregation or a following). With Missler it was his ability to self promote his wacky ideas with tape sales and speaking engagements. This concept works great for business franchises but is a huge disconnect in my opinion with Jesus’ core values. But I still find Missler interesting and a brother even though I reject most of his end times prophecy and political ideas.

  45. So, elephant in the room, SCOTUS’ ruling on Marriage Equality, I know what the overwhelming views will be here so I will not seek to offend anyone with my views.

    I’m trying to find the source of the notion or quote (and this is a loose recollection) “History proves that a civilization will self destruct within a generation of homosexuals being accepted as normal ”

    Who said that?

  46. em says:

    why are people in the south fighting so hard for the confederate flag? remember the joke about the rebellious little boy told to sit down? the tag “I’m sitting down on the outside, but I’m standing up on the inside.”
    there are plenty of folk down south who are only half joking when they declare still, “the South will rise again.”

    the flag really, really needs to be retired to museum status

    IMV the south did rise when Emmanuel AME church showed their colors – no lame pun intended

  47. em says:

    don’t know who said G’s quote, but for the Church, it’s time to stop looking for idiots and wizards and concentrate on Christ … IMHO

    the whole distorted view of marriage is a symptom, not THE cause and it’s been in progress for longer than one generation or one set of deviancy – unless old Jonah shows up with a message straight from God, we’ve now reached critical mass on a downhill slide… in my not so humble opinion, of course 🙂

  48. To anyone bemoaning Marriage Equality…
    We have such unlimited freedom in this country to live lives of love, mercy, kindness, forgiveness & compassion, I believe that if “God will hold us accountable” for anything it will be for the freedom we’ve been bestowed.

  49. Muff Potter says:

    G-man @ # 46 :

    Whoever said it relies on a casual connection rather than a solid and provable causal link. Casual connections have always been used by propagandists in order to sway and cow mobs. Probably the best (worst?) example was when Herr Doktor Goebbels used meticulous caliper measurements of human skulls to “prove” that Jews and Slavic peoples were non-Aryans.

  50. Muff,
    I recall Mario Murrillo from Resurrection City in Berkeley, also Bob Jones, Phyllis Schlafly & Anita Bryant, and Dr. James Dobson was another guy I heard it from when I used to listen to his show daily when I was on the road, but I’d like to find the initial source, not the people who quote it

  51. Bob says:

    I don’t know anything about Missler, but if the “Wiki” on him is true I’d say he has a real problem.

    “From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Missler

    In a 1984 interview, Western Digital’s then chairman, Roger Johnson described the company under Missler as having a good reputation for technology with a terrible reputation for execution, and seriously undercapitalized

    In 1983 Missler became the chairman and chief executive of Helionetics Inc., another technology company.[2] He left Heliotronics in 1984 “to pursue other opportunities in the high-technology field.”

    In August 1985 Helionetics sued former chairman Missler, alleging a conflict of interest. Missler and other Helionetics executives had decided not to purchase a small defense electronics maker, which company was subsequently purchased by an investment corporation in which Missler held a controlling interest.[5] The suit was settled when Missler’s firm agreed to pay Helionetics $1.6 million.[6]

    In 1989 he headed up the Phoenix Group International, a former Colorado real estate company that entered the high-tech industry to sell personal computers to Russian schools.[3] Phoenix filed for bankruptcy protection in 1990 when the deal did not develop as anticipated.

    A Los Angeles Times article reported that Missler and co-author Hal Lindsey had plagiarized a portion of Miami University Professor Edwin Yamauchi’s 1982 book Foes From the Northern Frontier in their own 1992 book The Magog Factor.[11] This mistake has been acknowledged,

    Missler has been accused of plagiarism of New Age writer Michael Talbot’s 1992 book The Holographic Universe in his 1999 book Cosmic Codes: Messages from the Edge of Eternity.[13] Missler has acknowledged this mistake and has since publicly apologized”

    This kind of stuff just continues to make Christianity look like a bunch of fools.

  52. Muff Potter says:

    Let us know what you come up with G-man. This is how these folks make such handsome bank with their wares. They rely on the fearful, the ignorant, and the cowed to not do their homework.

  53. Muff,
    If I find it I’ll post it

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