If you as an American or for that matter, a citizen of any nation believe the Jewish people should have their own country (however the boundaries are marked) in the old land of Israel, renamed Palestine – in effect if you agree with the United Nations and its decree over 60 years ago, then you are a Zionist. The word predates the modern nation
If you are a Christian and believe such things, you are a Christian Zionist, whatever your doctrinal beliefs.
If you want to take a word and confuse it, give a negatively charged meaning to it for your own purposes – much like someone today uses the word racist when racism is not an issue at all, then discussion is impossible.
Why this is such a commitment of MLD’s despite our years of explaining that dispensationalists should not be lumped with every fringe group (of which the speaker names several at the end of his talk) is beyond me.
Do you think, in purely political discussion, that Israel should have a nation? Yes or no. Your beef may be with the UN, but it is not with your other brothers in Christ.
That is not the slightest comment on Israel being always right politically. And of course we affirm constantly that they are in the land, lost, in unbelief. The difference is we think God has a plan and a prophetic role in their being there – as the speaker said, just as He has a plan for all nations. If your view of God has Israel’s present existence being meaningless, then so be it.
But it is frankly getting to the point of an evil to continue to insinuate that Christians somehow care more for Christ hating Jews than they do brothers in Christ – no different than saying we care more for the Iranian mullahs than we do the Christians in Iran being slaughtered, because we view a prophetic role for Iran in the last days.
Lunacy, false witness…evil. Especially looking around this world at the true enemies of fellow Christians – and they aren’t dispensationalists/ evangelicals – some of the most missionary minded people on this globe in sharing the gospel to the lost.
Or maybe in MLD’s case, despite HIS repeated strivings on this blog, it is just a case of not being able to take the Luther out of the Lutheran if you know what I mean….why should we believe him anymore when he refuses to believe us?
“Why this is such a commitment of MLD’s despite our years of explaining that dispensationalists should not be lumped with every fringe group (of which the speaker names several at the end of his talk) is beyond me.”
Is Mike Huckabee “fringe”?
I’ve read this sophistry before. Which Christian Zionists are supporting, lobbying and/or raising money for the rights of Palestinian Christians? Which ones are doing likewise for a two state solution in the land?
somehow i don’t think that God is going to hold Christians accountable for politically supporting the nation of Israel… what i think – dunno – that we may be held accountable for is our laissez faire political attitude with regard to our martyred brothers and sisters… do we march on Washington against the politics? does old Mike H make more noise supporting Israel than he does about our martyrs? i don’t know… i don’t listen to the man much
i do know that if you lived through WW2, heard the stories that our soldiers brought home of the horrors they saw with their own eyes when they came upon the Nazi concentration camps and then you followed the saga of the establishment of a nation – the Jews’ battle cry of “never again!” – you’d have a difficult time not being swept up in the drama that followed… the Iron Curtain kept the horrors of Stalin’s regime out of sight – how we would have reacted to that i don’t know… probably just as we react to the ISL horrors now – dunno
one thing is certain, Israel knows which Americans to court and they do so
I have no problem supporting the existence of the nation Israel politically. If we as a nation have deemed a strong Israeli presence in Middle East is a good strategic plan in the best interest of America – I am all for it, except… but at what cost to other Christians?
I like when the guy says that he is called anti Semitic, yet he points out that he IS a Semite – and how he is told to go to Jordan and he points out that Jordan too contains the holy land
I know I must live with the fact that Luther murdered all the Jews, but we must remember that my point of view here is held by the majority (I am sure at least 75%) of world Christianity – whereas the opposing view of ‘Israel or get out’ is held by the most prominent, the most read, the most viewed and heard voice of both dispensationalism and DTS in the latter half of the 20th century – who claims that if you disagree you are by default and anti semite.
If you recall Bob Mumford and Chuck used to “officiate” at the Corona Del Mar pirates cove baptisms during the early days of Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa.
Until Bob went to Fort Lauderdale Florida to participate in the erroneous “Shepherding doctrine.”
Jack Hayford tried to talk sense to Bob, but to no avail.
He now admits he was deeply wrong about the Shepherding movement.
“Mumford decided that he needed to publicly ‘repent’ of his responsibility in setting up a system where so many people were hurt by misuses of authority. ‘Some families were split up and lives turned upside down,’ says Mumford. ‘Some of these families are still not back together.'”
“Other movements influenced by the Shepherding doctrine were the Shiloh houses scattered across the USA”
Yep. Shiloh stressed conformity which produced simpletons or tyrants. Those who didn’t go along with the program were considered rebels in need of being rebuked. The rebels were those who actually had the capacity to think, others could handle the oppressive environment. Others still hold their Shiloh days with great reverence and awe, they are exceptionally loyal to their authority and do not think critically. But as more than one of them use to tell me, ” my brain needed washing”.
It’s all yours today…
Picked up a Thanksgiving turkey today. 10.5 lbs.
I was watching this – it’s funny how the Palestinian Christians get it and the dispensationalist are blind to it.
Thank you MLD … so wonderful to hear
It’s funny how those who watch the sky get it and those that don’t are blind to it…
http://shekinahfellowship.blogspot.com/2015/11/new-film-about-chemtrails-from-italy.html
If you as an American or for that matter, a citizen of any nation believe the Jewish people should have their own country (however the boundaries are marked) in the old land of Israel, renamed Palestine – in effect if you agree with the United Nations and its decree over 60 years ago, then you are a Zionist. The word predates the modern nation
If you are a Christian and believe such things, you are a Christian Zionist, whatever your doctrinal beliefs.
If you want to take a word and confuse it, give a negatively charged meaning to it for your own purposes – much like someone today uses the word racist when racism is not an issue at all, then discussion is impossible.
Why this is such a commitment of MLD’s despite our years of explaining that dispensationalists should not be lumped with every fringe group (of which the speaker names several at the end of his talk) is beyond me.
Do you think, in purely political discussion, that Israel should have a nation? Yes or no. Your beef may be with the UN, but it is not with your other brothers in Christ.
That is not the slightest comment on Israel being always right politically. And of course we affirm constantly that they are in the land, lost, in unbelief. The difference is we think God has a plan and a prophetic role in their being there – as the speaker said, just as He has a plan for all nations. If your view of God has Israel’s present existence being meaningless, then so be it.
But it is frankly getting to the point of an evil to continue to insinuate that Christians somehow care more for Christ hating Jews than they do brothers in Christ – no different than saying we care more for the Iranian mullahs than we do the Christians in Iran being slaughtered, because we view a prophetic role for Iran in the last days.
Lunacy, false witness…evil. Especially looking around this world at the true enemies of fellow Christians – and they aren’t dispensationalists/ evangelicals – some of the most missionary minded people on this globe in sharing the gospel to the lost.
Or maybe in MLD’s case, despite HIS repeated strivings on this blog, it is just a case of not being able to take the Luther out of the Lutheran if you know what I mean….why should we believe him anymore when he refuses to believe us?
“Why this is such a commitment of MLD’s despite our years of explaining that dispensationalists should not be lumped with every fringe group (of which the speaker names several at the end of his talk) is beyond me.”
Is Mike Huckabee “fringe”?
I’ve read this sophistry before. Which Christian Zionists are supporting, lobbying and/or raising money for the rights of Palestinian Christians? Which ones are doing likewise for a two state solution in the land?
somehow i don’t think that God is going to hold Christians accountable for politically supporting the nation of Israel… what i think – dunno – that we may be held accountable for is our laissez faire political attitude with regard to our martyred brothers and sisters… do we march on Washington against the politics? does old Mike H make more noise supporting Israel than he does about our martyrs? i don’t know… i don’t listen to the man much
i do know that if you lived through WW2, heard the stories that our soldiers brought home of the horrors they saw with their own eyes when they came upon the Nazi concentration camps and then you followed the saga of the establishment of a nation – the Jews’ battle cry of “never again!” – you’d have a difficult time not being swept up in the drama that followed… the Iron Curtain kept the horrors of Stalin’s regime out of sight – how we would have reacted to that i don’t know… probably just as we react to the ISL horrors now – dunno
one thing is certain, Israel knows which Americans to court and they do so
I have said many times that my favorite Chuck Smith saying is “stay under the spout where the glory comes out!”
But what is my 2nd favorite CS saying? “If you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one who yelps is the one you hit.”
The man was a prophet. 😉
I have no problem supporting the existence of the nation Israel politically. If we as a nation have deemed a strong Israeli presence in Middle East is a good strategic plan in the best interest of America – I am all for it, except… but at what cost to other Christians?
I like when the guy says that he is called anti Semitic, yet he points out that he IS a Semite – and how he is told to go to Jordan and he points out that Jordan too contains the holy land
I know I must live with the fact that Luther murdered all the Jews, but we must remember that my point of view here is held by the majority (I am sure at least 75%) of world Christianity – whereas the opposing view of ‘Israel or get out’ is held by the most prominent, the most read, the most viewed and heard voice of both dispensationalism and DTS in the latter half of the 20th century – who claims that if you disagree you are by default and anti semite.
Actually MLD the rock saying comes from Bob Muford’s book “12 steps out.”
Well Chuck used it all the time … and so do I 😉
Just an FYI…
If you recall Bob Mumford and Chuck used to “officiate” at the Corona Del Mar pirates cove baptisms during the early days of Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa.
Until Bob went to Fort Lauderdale Florida to participate in the erroneous “Shepherding doctrine.”
Jack Hayford tried to talk sense to Bob, but to no avail.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepherding_Movement
Bob did have some deep insights into the Word.
He now admits he was deeply wrong about the Shepherding movement.
“Mumford decided that he needed to publicly ‘repent’ of his responsibility in setting up a system where so many people were hurt by misuses of authority. ‘Some families were split up and lives turned upside down,’ says Mumford. ‘Some of these families are still not back together.'”
from surfer’s link.
“Other movements influenced by the Shepherding doctrine were the Shiloh houses scattered across the USA”
Yep. Shiloh stressed conformity which produced simpletons or tyrants. Those who didn’t go along with the program were considered rebels in need of being rebuked. The rebels were those who actually had the capacity to think, others could handle the oppressive environment. Others still hold their Shiloh days with great reverence and awe, they are exceptionally loyal to their authority and do not think critically. But as more than one of them use to tell me, ” my brain needed washing”.
On veracity of charitable organizations:
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2015/08/04/how-do-you-know-your-favorite-charity-isnt-scam/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl8%7Csec3_lnk3%26pLid%3D-1118966433