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79 Responses

  1. Josh the Baptist says:

    Should have been patient and used this for my “What Josh is thinking at this very moment” thread 🙂

  2. Michael says:

    The hits just keep coming…
    There is a new member of the Presidents “Faith Leaders Initiative Group”.
    Skip Heitzig.
    I’m going back to bed.

  3. Josh the Baptist says:

    That seems about right to be honest.

  4. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I am sure that it is strictly a pay to play group.

  5. Xenia says:

    Can’t these evangelical pastors discern good from evil?

  6. Dan from Georgia says:


    No. They. Can’t.

  7. I try to concern myself with politicians as much as Jesus did.

  8. Josh the Baptist says:

    I can’ say I wouldn’t go if invited. I’d probably feel like Joseph in Pharaoh’s court, or Daniel in Babylon. That said, this group seems like such an obvious sham.

    I did hear that they were part of getting Trump to tweet about trans people in the military, and regardless of my belief on that, I hope they aren’t spending their time on that.

  9. Scooter Jones says:

    But at least Obamacare is still entact and last time I checked not even 1 foot of the border wall Mexico was going to pay for had been erected 😉

  10. Scooter Jones says:

    On that theme, my wife and I have been signed up on Obamacare through the exchange in Oregon for the last 4 years. We are currently on our 4th provider, Atrio.

    Next year it will be our 5th provider in 5 years as Atrio informed us they are no longer going to participate in the exchange.

    The others in the exchange have either gone bankrupt or were on the verge of it.

    Something is messed up somewhere for sure. I’m not even sure our county will even have one provider in 2018.

  11. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    It’s funny that all these guys and gals use that silly little end times interpretive tool and not a one of them realizes that they have not only attached themselves to, but have been swallowed up by the Beast in those mid Revelation chapters. (This is not a commentary on Trump as it would relate to any government system foreign and domestic)

    They don’t see it at all

  12. Jean says:

    For music lovers…

    In Commemoration of Johann Sebastian Bach (died July 28, 1750)

    “I would certainly like to praise music with all my heart as the excellent gift of God which it is and to commend it to everyone…. Next to the Word of God, music deserves the highest praise. She is a mistress and governess of those human emotions…which as masters govern men or more often overwhelm them.

    No greater commendation than this can be found – at least not by us. For whether you wish to comfort the sad, to terrify the happy, to encourage the despairing, to humble the proud, to calm the passionate, or to appease those full of hate – and who could number all these masters of the human heart, namely, the emotions, inclinations, and affections that impel men to evil or good? – what more effective means than music could you find?

    The Holy Ghost himself honors her as an instrument for his proper work when in his Holy Scriptures he asserts that through her his gifts were instilled in the prophets, namely, the inclination to all virtues, as can be seen in Elisha [II Kings 3:15].

    On the other hand, she serves to cast out Satan, the instigator of all sins, as is shown in Saul, the king of Israel [cit. omit.].

    Thus it was not without reason that the fathers and prophets wanted nothing else to be associated as closely with the Word of God as music. Therefore, we have so many hymns and Psalms where message and music join to move the listener’s soul…. After all, the gift of language combined with the gift of song was only given to man to let him know that he should praise God with both word and music, namely, by proclaiming [the Word of God] through music and by providing sweet melodies with words.”

    – Martin Luther

  13. Josh the Baptist says:

    Nice try MLD. Not biting.

  14. Josh the Baptist says:

    Never been a more brilliant musical mind than Bach.

  15. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “Nice try MLD. Not biting.”

    There you go thinking everything is about you. 😉

  16. Josh the Baptist says:

    I didn’t say it was about me. You were just throwing out fresh bait hoping for a bite. Steve Wright and I are the only people here that might employ that silly little end times interpretative tool.

    But you can have that one. Not interested.

    Reading about William Carey. Good guy. Can’t find anything good and controversial though 🙂

  17. Michael says:

    So one of my Facebook friends just posted an update…declaring that John McCain deserves brain cancer for his vote last night.

    I need to get off FB and maybe this planet…

  18. Josh the Baptist says:

    Defintely block those FB friends. All my friends are applauding him today. I’ve always liked Mccain.

  19. Michael says:

    She blocked me because I gently rebuked her.

  20. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Not that it matters but I have never been a McCain fan and now I live in his state. I sat out the 2008 election cycle refusing to vote for him or Obama.
    Last year during the primaries I was rooting for Dr. Kelli Ward to beat him – but she did not.

    But he doesn’t deserve brain cancer for a vote – scorn perhaps, but not brain cancer.

  21. Josh the Baptist says:

    “She blocked me because I gently rebuked her.

    That’s good. You don’t need the grief. Social media can be a total nightmare if don’t manage it.

  22. Michael says:

    I have never disliked a politician as much as i dislike this President since George Wallace ran for office.

    I do not wish any ill upon him except a change in vocation…

  23. Scooter Jones says:

    He already had brain cancer. So does that mean if he had voted for repeal, his brain cancer would of gone away?

    The hysteria on both sides of these issues is so beyond the pale these days. Not to mention how the politicians play us all for a bunch of fools.

  24. Josh the Baptist says:

    I thought George W. was the bottom of the barrel. I would have never dreamed…

  25. Duane Arnold says:

    #24 Josh

    You mean this is not a dream, as in a nightmare?!? Now I’m really worried…

  26. bob1 says:

    In my book, John McCain is a hero. What he did last night is nothing short of heroic.

    Politicians like him who put the welfare of all Americans ahead of party. and partisanship…well, they may be leading the way back out of the current insanity…

  27. bob1 says:

    In my book, John McCain is a hero. What he did last night is nothing short of heroic.

    Politicians like him who put the welfare of all Americans ahead of party. and petty, narcissitic partisanship…well, they may be leading the way back out of the current insanity…

  28. ( |o )====::: says:

    I’m praying that his examining his brain condition will motivate him to examine his heart condition.

  29. Michael says:


    I hear you…may it help lead him home safely if he isn’t healed.

  30. Josh the Baptist says:

    Who has a heart condition, Mccain? WHy is that?

  31. John 20:29 says:

    it struck me during this Obamacare light thing that we haven’t a clue – politics are evil and are not the practice of discretion that God advises… the vote overnight went exactly as planned, is my best guess… McCain is not my cup of tea, but in this event he behaved like a statesman or as close as a politician can come to that status – just MHO … again
    best definition on my computer dictionary: politics – “activities within an organization that are aimed at improving someone’s status or position and are typically considered to be devious or divisive” – hence the questionable Christians on the Faith Leaders group… ?
    but IMHO – keep praying, keep praying anyway… cuz these timesare on the brink of being tough and extreme enough world-wide to qualify for “end times” …

  32. John 20:29 says:

    #24 – George Washington, the father of our country? 😯 lol

  33. Josh the Baptist says:

    Different W. 🙂

  34. ( |o )====::: says:

    The “heart condition” I speak of is the hardness of heart toward the poor, the marginalized, the less fortunate. His track record on these things near to Jesus’ heart hasn’t been great, so the fact that he might be having a “WTF do I have to lose?” time of reflection in light of his terminal illness could would help him embrace the greater majority of needy members of our commonwealth that the ACA has helped.

  35. Michael says:


    I don’t know his heart.
    I know that some very large hearted folks don’t believe government can or should be involved in such things.
    I disagree, but I can’t judge their motives.

    The ACA saved and is saving my life.
    It is also depriving people I know and love of care they need.

    It’s broken…and it has to be fixed.
    Wiser men than myself will have to figure out how.

  36. Josh the Baptist says:

    G – Thanks for the explanation.

    Michael – I agree with #35.

  37. John 20:29 says:

    i hate to be the resident church lady here this morning, but….
    we don’t really have the insight to judge hearts… some people act in ways that don’t seem right to us, but do so from hearts that want to do right… sometimes it is our thinking that gets skewed… IMHO

    for instance: 🙂 we had an annoying dog who couldn’t be housebroken… now if you put your foot on this dog’s toe, she howled like you had stepped on it full force… dunno why…
    i was married to a very smart man – smarter than any of us who post here academically – he got the bright idea that if he put his foot on the dog’s toe, she’d yelp, he’d open the door and she’d learn that, if she made a noise, she’d be let outside and repetition works with animals… ?
    in retrospect that was bat crazy, but in his mind at the time it seemed logical (hope he’ll forgive me for telling on him)… BTW. he did not put any weight on the dog’s toes, did not damage her foot, she was just quirky – likely someone had stepped on her toe and she wasn’t taking any chances… but my late husband was not a dog psychologist – obviously

  38. bob1 says:

    The ACA saved and is saving my life.
    It is also depriving people I know and love of care they need.


    Both things you’ve asserted are true. I’m biased in favor of it, because like you, it’s saved my life and that of other of my family members.

    But I believe if ALL of us work together, it certainly can be improved. The same country that put a man on the moon, cured polio, built the interstate system and won WWII (just a few examples) can surely improve on the ACA and make affordable healthcare available for even more folks.

  39. Erunner says:

    Michael, Skip Heitzig was involved in a lot of stuff that you covered closely. Pete Nelson, radio stations, coming to and then leaving California. It seems so much harm was done to many.

    Has he ever publicly owned up to or asked forgiveness from anyone since then? I know we can’t see into his heart but he has a track record and is still huge with many.

    It’s difficult to engage some I know when they show their excitement for Skip and our President.

    We’ve all placed out hopes in the wrong people along the way. At times it seems better to zip my lips rather than engage in what seems would be fruitless dialogue.

    Hope you’re feeling better.

  40. Michael says:


    Thee has been no change in Skip…

    Don’t you have problems with kidney stones?
    Why didn’t you warn me about the pain? 🙂

  41. Michael says:


    Well said…I concur.

  42. Erunner says:

    Thanks Michael.

    I recently had surgery to remove some and it went perfectly. I think even when I experienced the worst of my pain through the years in passing them it never seemed as bad as what others have gone through so in that sense I’m fortunate.

    Get better!!! 🙂

  43. Michael says:

    Thanks, E!

  44. ( |o )====::: says:

    We judge hearts by actions.
    How does one see greed?
    How does one see pride?
    How does one see arrogance?
    …all by actions.

    As to the role of government, a good friend reminded me recently of a word we used, “commonwealth”. Our government, of the people, by the people and for the people is a commonwealth, enriched by each of us, as we contribute to the common good and wellbeing of all citizens. When we have public servants who are mindful of their role, and we likewise have citizens who do their part, we have progress, growth.

    The brilliant documentary “Where to Invade Next” is a courageous look at how others are doing what we should be doing.

    We need to abandon the racist “Make America Great Again” and adopt, “We Will Do Better”

  45. John 20:29 says:

    G, you are tender hearted and i love your compassionate comments, but i must take issue with your #44… we just cannot judge hearts

    however, we can observe actions and we know there are some very pithy Proverbs dealing with actions… we do have a right, maybe a duty, to call an action wrong… trouble is we aren’t always seeing the whole picture… greed is pretty easy and pride is usually identifiable and an embarrassment, but i’m not sure that we are good at spotting arrogance
    pride may be fear – arrogance might be timidity – greed, usually is stealing but even it could be taking from one’s largess to give to another’s need – wrong action, but maybe good heart?

    and commonwealth? that isn’t as simple as it sounds either… i suspect that time evolves and erodes the best of governments because of that thing called power… i wish our democratic republic with state’s rights had been sustainable, but there’s too many bad actors on the planet in every area where there’s an opportunity to advance one’s corrupted self … but i’ll join you in praying that, by God’s mercies we here in the U.S. will do better

    as a post script (not aimed at G), i will add that what began as a good concept – the corporation – operating as it does has become one of the worst things to happen to our way of life in this nation – they run our politics and they border on unaccountable dictatorships… if you don’t think so, you’ve never been employed by a modern day version

  46. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Actually I find G’s point of view just as hardline and bigoted as Trumps. The way to cure the problems and needs of America is G’s way or the highway and you will be labeled heartless, racist, and a fascist.
    There is more than one way to fix the problems – in fact there are many ways.

  47. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    And why do ‘corporations’ take such heat?
    Hey, anyone go out to lunch today at Taco Bell? There’s a corporation – did they provide a service to you, your co workers, your family?
    What’s the big deal there?

  48. Jean says:

    The corporate veil is there for a reason.

  49. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I was a corporation at one time.

  50. ( |o )====::: says:

    Dear MLD,
    You are heartless, racist, and a fascist.
    …and a boor.


    Other than that you’re a lovable guy.

    You moved?

    Have a great weekend.

  51. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Lake Havasu City – my conscience wouldn’t allow me to live with the fat cats fascists in So OC 😉

  52. John 20:29 says:

    An yes, the corporate veil so-called is there for a reason – ? the problem is that it is amoral, while it offers a shield, it is also easy to hide behind it…
    Taco Bell reminded me of something… 60 plus years ago when I first went to work at a minimum wage job, in today’s dollars would be $15 an hour…
    As Taco Bell represents successful free enterprise growing into a big business I have no problem…
    But this is not the place for examining the evil side of incorporation… and as far as I can see nobody really cares just so long as the goods keep coming.

  53. Owen says:


    Thanks for posting Luther’s words on music. It has always been a medium that I relate very well to, and that God has used mightily with me over the years.

    “. After all, the gift of language combined with the gift of song was only given to man to let him know that he should praise God….”

    I would add a little something to these words – that it was also given (as C.S. Lewis wrote in “The Screwtape Letters”,) for man to simply enjoy without God minding in the slightest.

  54. Jean says:

    A Prayer In Commemoration Mary, Martha, and Lazarus of Bethany

    “Heavenly Father, Your beloved Son befriended frail humans like us to make us Your own. Teach us to be like Jesus’ dear friends from Bethany, that we might serve Him faithfully like Martha, learn from Him earnestly like Mary, and ultimately be raised by Him like Lazarus. Through their Lord and ours, Jesus Christ, who lives and reigns with You and the Holy Spirit, one God, now and forever.” Amen.

    (Treasury of Daily Prayer, CPH 2008, p. 571-72)

  55. Scooter Jones says:

    Very proud of my oldest daughter. She is giving a TED TALK today on mathematics, the subject she teaches at a higher learning school.

    She must of gotten her smarts from her mom 😉

  56. Jean says:

    Congratulations Scooter Jones. That sounds wonderful.

  57. John 20:29 says:

    Over my lifetime I’ve had two really good math instructors – it’s one thing to be good at math, but to be good at and good at teaching it is something special..
    Congratulations to the Jones family indeed !

  58. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I think this may be worthy of an Open Blogging conversation. A quote I got off Facebook by Chad Bird (I leave quoting Luther to Jean 😉 )

    “Not once in the whole Bible does anyone one ask Jesus into their heart to be their personal lord and savior. They simply believe and are baptized.”

    So how does that teaching get started, or better yet, how does it continue past it’s first generation?

  59. Michael says:

    I’ve read that it may well have started with Billy Graham…it certainly has no historical pedigree beyond the early 20th century.

    I used to get all wound up about it, but have decided that it’s really not that big of a deal.

    People want to affirm that a change has happened in their soul and this is a way to express that.

    My only objection would be that it is often tied to decisional regeneration, which I believe to be folly.

  60. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    If you ever want to see some Christians swallow their tongue – when they ask, “when did you ask Jesus into your heart?” answer “Never, why do you ask?” 🙂

  61. Josh the Baptist says:

    I meant to follow that up by saying, its been a conversation in the SBC for the past couple of years. Some of our younger leaders like Greear and Platt speak against it. I’m sort of with Michael. It’s just sort of a colloquial way of describing the salvation experience.

    I would bet it goes back to at least Billy Sunday, but I can’t be sure.

  62. Jean says:

    I thought Platt was a Calvinist.

  63. Michael says:

    Platt is a soteriological Calvinist.
    Very different from being Reformed.

  64. Jean says:

    And I would assume Baptist.

  65. Michael says:


    He’s SBC…

  66. Jean says:

    Although I’m not Baptist, I am sorry to see another tradition give up its historical theology to become all things to all people. I do not think SBC is there yet, but the trajectory is not encouraging. Look what happened to the UMC.

  67. Josh the Baptist says:

    Jean – SBC is neither Calvinist or non. Since the founding their have been both Calvinists and non-calvinists. Platt and Greear are Calvinists, as are Mohler, Russell Moore, and many others. Most of our presidents including the current one, Steve Gaines, have been non-calvinist.

  68. Scooter Jones says:

    Thanks, Jean. Our daughter did a beautiful job with her Ted Talk on mathematics.

    Especially this quote she referenced from Galileo:
    “Mathematics is the language in which God has written the universe.”

  69. Jean says:

    Awesome quote Scooter. The quote reads like a paraphrase of Psalm 19.

    “The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. Day to day pours out speech, and night to night reveals knowledge.”

  70. Dan from Georgia says:

    That’s great Scooter! There are plenty of math nuts out there (one of them tis I), and we appreciate the great math teachers out there!

  71. Scooter Jones says:

    I’ve always been good at basic math, but nothing like my daughter has achieved.

    I’m blessed she is using that acquired knowledge as a platform to shape and influence young skulls full of mush in a positive way.

    Making it fun for the kids and pointing to the ultimate mathematician himself, God.

  72. dusty says:

    Scooter Jones, how is your son doing?

  73. Scooter Jones says:

    Dusty, not well.

  74. dusty says:

    Scooter Jones, we are still praying for him, for your family.

  75. dusty says:

    Scooter, (((((hugs))))))

  76. Scooter Jones says:

    Thank you, Dusty.

  77. Stephen says:

    I am sorry if I’m interrupting and ongoing conversation, but I am unable to read the entirety of this thread right now. However I do have a pressing question that I’d like some opinions on if you don’t mind.

    If you were in Ministry and the person put above you as a leader does not seem to have leadership qualities (such as critical thinking, forward seeing/thinking), how would you handle it?

    Do you think that a leader, in this case of senior pastor, should have these qualities of being a leader? Why or why not?

  78. Michael says:

    That all depends on if you’re looking for a pastor or a CEO…

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