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21 Responses

  1. Jean says:

    “But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.”

  2. Dan from Georgia says:

    Just in case anyone got the idea that living in the Bible Belt it’s easy to be a Christian and all churches have it all together:

    – Wife and I met a couple today at a local pet hospital. Turns out they were Christians like us. Long story short, they are really poor and their attire shows it. Recently they went to two local churches to fellowship and worship and were escorted out/asked to leave both of them because they didn’t “look right”.

    Made wife and I angry.

  3. descended says:

    You have to admire Wayne Taylor and his efforts to bridge the gap in Calvary Chapels.

    There is a lot of bitterness.

    One troubling phrase both camps keep repeating: “God and Pastor Chuck…”

  4. descended says:

    Right out of James 2, Dan

  5. descended says:

    Jean, imo nothing supports the civic religion or notion that God Is Dead more than making a museum out of scripture and dead men.

  6. Dan from Georgia says:


    I knew their experiences sounded familiar!

  7. Jean says:

    Dan at #2,

    That is heartbreaking. What is happening to us, if what you heard is not a shock?

  8. John 20:29 says:

    Dan from GA… did they tell you the names of the churches? … maybe, it’s old age, but right now i want to pay a visit to the pastors of those churches …
    could be the pastors are not aware, but i suspect they are part of the “keep your congregation homogenous crowd” – an evil, evil theory that supposed a happy church is made of all similar people that was taught a few years back… don’t know if it still is…

  9. John 20:29 says:

    on a different tack… Judge Moore… he may be innocent dunno… NOT my interest at the moment… but what i am wondering is this,

    IF the man said, “yes, i did those things when i was younger. It was wrong. I have since become a Christian and I repent and have asked God’s forgiveness. I should have asked the forgiveness of these women and will do so now.”
    would it then make him an acceptable candidate for the Senate? or are the sins of our past disqualifying us from such secular pursuits?

  10. Dan from Georgia says:

    Em, the churches are in downtown Carrollton, GA (west-central GA, just about an hour from ATL). One is a Methodist Church. I didn’t catch the church names or the other church’s affiliation. The gentleman we spoke with talked about how everyone was so neatly dressed in the churches they attempted to visit. Of course with their income, they weren’t dressed as sharp as the other parishioners.

    But hey, that’s the punchline, right? It shouldn’t come down to some unspoken dress code. These fine folk were considered “unsavory” because they looked like they were looking for trouble or money or whatnot. I believe the gentleman even said that they were escorted from one of the church’s by the police. What was peculiar was that there was no real sense of animosity in the man’s voice. Just a voice of disappointment.

    BTW, for those that don’t live in the Bible Belt (usually considered from around TX/OK east to the Carolinas and northern FL), many people in traditional mainline churches, as well as pentacostal/black baptist/Full Gospel churches DO indeed don their “Sunday best”. Not saying that these “dresser-uppers’ are the primary offenders in discriminating by economics. Perhaps it is the “old guard”, as you alluded to Em.

    Jean, yes it is heartbreaking to see a brother in Christ and his kin rejected like that from those who should know better.

  11. dusty says:

    Dan, how sad

  12. John 20:29 says:

    Dan, I was serious about paying those pastors a visit

    not saying that you should do so, not saying that at all… speaking from experience, you can be in a world of hurt when certain “Christians” turn against you … they go behind your back – very nice and civilized

    glad those folks have you and your wife as a good memory … it does matter

  13. Dan from Georgia says:

    Em, honestly my first reaction was that I would pay them a visit, and it wouldn’t be pretty, but then again I’m not a violent man.

    God blessed our meeting with this gentleman and his dad and wife and neighbors dog. The meeting was undeniably a God thing!

  14. Owen says:


    That story makes me really angry. I’d better not visit those churches, I would cause a scene. I would show up in my Sunday best, and bring a couple friends dressed in older, worn clothing. Then I would raise a fuss if they tried to throw my friends out…..

    We have many in our congregation who do put on their Sunday best, and many who don’t. Most of those who do are the elderly, who I assume were raised that way. But thankfully there doesn’t seem to be any judgment of those who don’t by those who do. I know for a fact our pastor wouldn’t stand for that, either.

  15. Eric says:

    On Tuesday they announced that Australia had voted to allow same-sex marriage. A 62% yes vote, which was about what was expected.

    Interestingly though the highest no votes were in safe Labor party (who are like the US Dems) districts. Which shows that our major parties here, as less divided on culture war issues than the US D v R; or simply that people “vote their class and not their culture”. Any extra dimensions to confuse & dilute polarisation is a good thing I think.

  16. John 20:29 says:

    I once asked my grandmother why everyone dressed up to go to church on Sunday morning… She answered that it was to show respect for God as they gathered to worship Him… I guarantee you that no one would have been thrown out or asked to leave simply for coming to church not “dressed up.”

  17. Michael says:


    That was an interesting update.
    Hopefully, you folks can avoid our culture wars…

  18. Eric says:

    Still plenty of culture war, but not quite as much as the US. Mostly because we don’t have a President Trump. In our system leaders like him end up with their own small party, never leading a big one.

    Because the SSM vote (technically a postal survey, and the govt will enact the legislation later this year) was carried out over 2 months, there was a 2-month long campaign, even though most people voted in the first month. Everyone is glad it’s over. A lot of couples will get married in January. It will be a just little bit harder to be a Christian or to share Christian views about some things.

  19. The New Victor says:

    Dan, what??? *sigh*

    We have a developmentally disabled adult in our congregation. He sometimes wears a bicycle helmet. A few weeks ago, he was having an episode. He ended up sitting behind me and my 7 year old son (a high functioning autistic). He was making odd noises and worrying about a paper bag he was carrying. I’ve talked to him before. I let him go through whatever was worrying him that day. He moved around the congregation a few times. I saw one usher keeping an eye on him (as I was). No one kicked him out, and I was pleased.

    It’s people like him that I hope to see one day in heaven, healed, or even as they are, who really knows how that goes? I take it on faith that it will be as it is, and that the rest of us are to practice mercy and kindness (love).

  20. descended says:

    New Victor,

    Micah 4:6-7

    A promise to you and your son, and the gentleman seated in back of you that morning

    Physical manifestation of spiritual reality

  21. David H says:

    I will credit where credit is due. We attend a church that is trying to make a name for itself. Enough said on that.

    There is a family with a Downs Syndrome son who is well taken care of by the elders of the church. By which I mean they guard him and take care of him very well. He is actually quite a treasure, and the leaders show how we should care for others by taking care of him.

    Also, over three years, I have seen folks welcome everyone, and I mean everyone through the doors. They have never turned anyone away for any reason. It hasn’t mattered how they dress, how they look, etc. They are welcomed with open arms.

    This church has just gone through what would generally be a catastrophic scandal. But for the leadership and the openness to God we would have been destroyed. After a couple of weeks of wandering, life is back.

    The bottom line, it’s the people. These are God’s people, and I think deep down they know it.

    Sure is a lot different than my old CC days.

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