I was being interviewed for a podcast about Christians who are in the creative fields, ministry or otherwise, and we got to talking about younger people want to be pastors and worship leaders, not because they want to shepherd or serve with their gifts, but because they want to be in the spotlight and it works with their faith. This then let into referencing a stat posted here from barns about people not attending church since isolation. It led us to ask, if people want to be in ministry because they want to entertain in the name of the Lord, and If people not going to church makes no difference in their lives because the entertainment has no substance, then what is the point of any of it, and how do we fix it?
A possible answer that came to me overnight was this; we don’t fix it, we start over. People seem set to get back to the way things were in the before time. This is a time of reflection for churches, ministers, and congregants. At least, I think it should be. We stop thinking of the church as a business to build and run and we get back to what Jesus commanded; hands-on disciple making (figuratively for now, literally when we are able). Just some musings.
Michael, (semi-sarcastic tone) who are we kidding? Of course it will go back to normal? How many times has someone here said, “Surely this will change things for the better,” only to have nothing at all change?
I recently listened to a message on-line that I not only agreed with the doctrine, but I liked this guy”s approach to systematic theological construction. That being said, the sermon was also a bit flat for me. He didn’t say anything that I didn’t already know, which is not a bad thing. But it was just conveying information. His message didn’t seem to have any life, any Spirit to it. Perhaps it got lost in the stream somehow, but I thought I would have have a deeper experience with God by spending time alone in prayer.
In the last week I listened to another guy preach, whose delivery style was on the opposite end of the spectrum of the first preacher. This second guy was really high energy, but he didn’t really say anything other than the same ole’, shallow, platitudinal hype that hasn’t reached me in many years. And he titled his sermon series something like “sermons you need to hear.” But this guy’s church is growing, people are buying the morsels of bread he is selling.
I agree we need to start over. I’m not sure how that would work, but I feel to do so while staying true to our convictions and conscious might require that we leave the masses who are drawn to “church light” behind.
Your experience with the two sermons is why I don’t participate in a regular church. If I can predict the next sentence out of the guy’s mouth, what’s the point?
I’m the prophet of doom in every area right now…but as to the church in particular…we’re leaking numbers like a sieve at the moment anyway, to begin with.
I believe at this point that the pandemic is bringing (and will bring more) devastation politically, economically, and psychologically in degrees unseen in our lifetimes.
The economic infrastructure is breaking and the political system is broken.
Most institutions that aren’t broken are breaking.
We may have 300,000 Covid19 deaths by this time next year.
Through it all, the church has been largely irrelevant except as a vector for political views.
There will be a massive backlash against the church in general and evangelicalism in particular and only a remnant will remain.
Went out of town (in state to avoid a mandatory 14 day quarantine) and went to another church the cashier at a local store invited me to. I’m so often amazed at the diversity of the Body of Christ in my travels (as I was last summer too).
Although “ right color wrong culture“ claims that only 2.5% of churches are multi ethnic (defined as less than 80% of the same ethnicity) by Bryan Loritts.
We’re having so much fun ripping the hide off each other that we haven’t noticed things like a 32% reduction in the GDP…or the suicide rate that may overtake Covid19 deaths in some places.
We’re in deep trouble…
Yeah the suicide rate was already bad in 2019 and before. I keep hearing anecdotes that are tragic from friends and acquaintances.
I’ll add one more to your statements, Michael:
You said Trump would close our borders from getting out. I don’t think he did it, but they are closed now.
And in other news, by buddy in Portland sent me an article about 150 shots fired in a neighborhood near Mt. Tabor, one wounded, no one killed. It was not far from where they live. The city also chose to defund their anti- gun violence task force. Good job.
Michael, if you’re feeling like a prophet of doom on all fronts I can relate. I’ve felt that way for about six or seven years, maybe more like ten or fifteen on a couple of topics.
You’d think that aging, maturity and wisdom should go hand in hand.
That’s now how it apparently works in the Louie Gohmert family. Just the opposite He’s tested positive for caronavirus after bragging that there’s no need to wear masks.
Now his daughter has tweeted this:
“Wearing a mask is a nonpartisan issue. The advice of medical experts shuuldn’t be politicized. My father ignored medical advice and now has COVID 19.
This has been a heartbreaking battle because I love my dad. and I don’t want to see him die. Please, please listen to medical experts. It’s not worth following a President who has no remorse for leading his followers to an early grave.”
Unfortunately, Gohmert already drank the Kool-Aid for the Orange Dear Leader, and may very well end up like Herman Cain. I am sorry for his family, but not for him. If he dies due to COVID, he will be another Darwin Award nominee, just like current nominee Herman Cain.
EM – recovering from facial surgery – nose repair
Em – I found out that running around in the California sun in my tomboy youth is going to cost me half my nose… They’re confident that they can construct a nice replacement using part of my forehead and cartilage from my ear….. hoookay….
It is your show, God, but i kind of thought I’d die before i started falling apart.. 🙏
Linnea – healing from knee replacement. has developed an infection.
Michael – I’m going in this morning for a stress test and cardiac ultrasound…praying I’m stable enough to put off surgery a while longer…
Em- I have a granddaughter taking the MCAT next weekend – a 7 1/2 hour test and we’d really appreciate prayer, if amy get the chance (she’ll make a crackerjack MD)… Thanks
Em – Prayer for my daughter on city council would br appreciated, she has, as of this morning (Thursday) received 24 threatening Emails demanding that they disband their police department
Kelly -I have a real need to continue to see my counselor. In addition to the other reasons I see him for I have been having day long panic attacks, on top of the depression and PTSD-C symptoms.
Alissa-My sweet husband has Autism and was let go from his job yesterday.
Patrik -Pray for me, an ER nurse in Indianapolis.
Dan form Georgia- I work in aviation/transportation. We are getting hit HARD as many of you know. I am not even confident when I go into work everyday that it will be my last day (layoff or termination). Also struggling a lot with anxiety.
Chris -My wife started her second career as a nurse this week on the hospital floor that they treat the Covid patients.
Linneia – joint and muscle aches
Nancy – prayer for her discernment of an unexpected opportunity to become a more public advocate for the homeless,
Em – daughter is healing from fracture spine
Michael – I would appreciate prayer as well…life is pretty overwhelming right now.
Captain Kevin – Appreciate prayer. I’ve been in a Fibro/fatigue/depressed funk all week.
Also, I’m teaching piano and voice at a local studio, and need many more students to make things work.
Linnea – Would you pray for Greg? He was treated for an aggressive brain cancer and thought he was clear, but it has roared back. Please pray for healing and that he and his wife come to know the Lord. Thank you!
Xenia-+Pray for the churches of Sri Lanka
Paige – Asking for prayer for a family issue… God knows…. and the silencing of a lying gossip who is spreading slander about me to family members and others. It’s an on going issue that is quite perplexing, and apparently demonic. Twisted, delusional and strange.
cash – depression , PTSD
David H – I could use a prayer. I was diagnosed with Bell’s Palsy . Right side of my face is paralyzed. Prednisone and an antiviral.
Michael – heart aneurysm and a bad valve, bad back and neck issues.
JD – Marshal whose mother told him that she doesn’t love him
Linnea – Jon and Sarah. Please pray that they would know God’s love and would follow Him out of horrible lifestyles to freedom.
Michael, Rick, Joel, Dan, capt. Kevin, Owen – wand to hear from God in their prayer life
JTK- ongoing back issue.
David H – Aunt Ramona has Adenocarcinoma primary lung cancer.
please, if you are in need of prayer, let us pray with you and for you. If you have a praise let us praise with you. If you have an update on your request above please give us an update.
We care deeply for our online family here and want to be here for you in prayer.
((((((hugs)))))
It’s all yours today…
I was being interviewed for a podcast about Christians who are in the creative fields, ministry or otherwise, and we got to talking about younger people want to be pastors and worship leaders, not because they want to shepherd or serve with their gifts, but because they want to be in the spotlight and it works with their faith. This then let into referencing a stat posted here from barns about people not attending church since isolation. It led us to ask, if people want to be in ministry because they want to entertain in the name of the Lord, and If people not going to church makes no difference in their lives because the entertainment has no substance, then what is the point of any of it, and how do we fix it?
A possible answer that came to me overnight was this; we don’t fix it, we start over. People seem set to get back to the way things were in the before time. This is a time of reflection for churches, ministers, and congregants. At least, I think it should be. We stop thinking of the church as a business to build and run and we get back to what Jesus commanded; hands-on disciple making (figuratively for now, literally when we are able). Just some musings.
Corby,
We can hope.
I think the church in general and evangelicalism in particular will be stripped to the floor in the next five years…
Seems fitting with the protests and all.
https://youtu.be/0OBs6S1lW_Q
Michael, (semi-sarcastic tone) who are we kidding? Of course it will go back to normal? How many times has someone here said, “Surely this will change things for the better,” only to have nothing at all change?
But, like you said, we can hope.
Interesting musing there Corby.
I recently listened to a message on-line that I not only agreed with the doctrine, but I liked this guy”s approach to systematic theological construction. That being said, the sermon was also a bit flat for me. He didn’t say anything that I didn’t already know, which is not a bad thing. But it was just conveying information. His message didn’t seem to have any life, any Spirit to it. Perhaps it got lost in the stream somehow, but I thought I would have have a deeper experience with God by spending time alone in prayer.
In the last week I listened to another guy preach, whose delivery style was on the opposite end of the spectrum of the first preacher. This second guy was really high energy, but he didn’t really say anything other than the same ole’, shallow, platitudinal hype that hasn’t reached me in many years. And he titled his sermon series something like “sermons you need to hear.” But this guy’s church is growing, people are buying the morsels of bread he is selling.
I agree we need to start over. I’m not sure how that would work, but I feel to do so while staying true to our convictions and conscious might require that we leave the masses who are drawn to “church light” behind.
pstrmike,
Your experience with the two sermons is why I don’t participate in a regular church. If I can predict the next sentence out of the guy’s mouth, what’s the point?
MICHAEL?!?!
Why the next 5 years?
jtk.
I’m the prophet of doom in every area right now…but as to the church in particular…we’re leaking numbers like a sieve at the moment anyway, to begin with.
I believe at this point that the pandemic is bringing (and will bring more) devastation politically, economically, and psychologically in degrees unseen in our lifetimes.
The economic infrastructure is breaking and the political system is broken.
Most institutions that aren’t broken are breaking.
We may have 300,000 Covid19 deaths by this time next year.
Through it all, the church has been largely irrelevant except as a vector for political views.
There will be a massive backlash against the church in general and evangelicalism in particular and only a remnant will remain.
Write it down… 🙂
I’m with Michael. Massive change is coming. Domestically and internationaly.
Went out of town (in state to avoid a mandatory 14 day quarantine) and went to another church the cashier at a local store invited me to. I’m so often amazed at the diversity of the Body of Christ in my travels (as I was last summer too).
Although “ right color wrong culture“ claims that only 2.5% of churches are multi ethnic (defined as less than 80% of the same ethnicity) by Bryan Loritts.
We’re having so much fun ripping the hide off each other that we haven’t noticed things like a 32% reduction in the GDP…or the suicide rate that may overtake Covid19 deaths in some places.
We’re in deep trouble…
Voice of the Martyrs has some great stuff on how to survive through persecution and even communism (“Tortured for Christ”).
I was inspired reading about how they’d witness during communism in Romania.
I can’t imagine how Left Behind helps…unless it’s true and we all get raptured out of kinda tough stuff.
The Church has been through a lot more than this.
Rodney Stark talking about how Christians cared for the sick in early Rome is inspiring.
Yeah the suicide rate was already bad in 2019 and before. I keep hearing anecdotes that are tragic from friends and acquaintances.
I’ll add one more to your statements, Michael:
You said Trump would close our borders from getting out. I don’t think he did it, but they are closed now.
Who knows what the future holds?
And in other news, by buddy in Portland sent me an article about 150 shots fired in a neighborhood near Mt. Tabor, one wounded, no one killed. It was not far from where they live. The city also chose to defund their anti- gun violence task force. Good job.
Michael, if you’re feeling like a prophet of doom on all fronts I can relate. I’ve felt that way for about six or seven years, maybe more like ten or fifteen on a couple of topics.
You’d think that aging, maturity and wisdom should go hand in hand.
That’s now how it apparently works in the Louie Gohmert family. Just the opposite He’s tested positive for caronavirus after bragging that there’s no need to wear masks.
Now his daughter has tweeted this:
“Wearing a mask is a nonpartisan issue. The advice of medical experts shuuldn’t be politicized. My father ignored medical advice and now has COVID 19.
This has been a heartbreaking battle because I love my dad. and I don’t want to see him die. Please, please listen to medical experts. It’s not worth following a President who has no remorse for leading his followers to an early grave.”
I agree with Michael. We ought to pray that each other remain unafraid in the next few months. Our courage and love will be our witness.
Unfortunately, Gohmert already drank the Kool-Aid for the Orange Dear Leader, and may very well end up like Herman Cain. I am sorry for his family, but not for him. If he dies due to COVID, he will be another Darwin Award nominee, just like current nominee Herman Cain.
CM,
not good, you should pray for your enemies, so he should be easier to pray for than that!
please remember in prayer
EM – recovering from facial surgery – nose repair
Em – I found out that running around in the California sun in my tomboy youth is going to cost me half my nose… They’re confident that they can construct a nice replacement using part of my forehead and cartilage from my ear….. hoookay….
It is your show, God, but i kind of thought I’d die before i started falling apart.. 🙏
Linnea – healing from knee replacement. has developed an infection.
Michael – I’m going in this morning for a stress test and cardiac ultrasound…praying I’m stable enough to put off surgery a while longer…
Em- I have a granddaughter taking the MCAT next weekend – a 7 1/2 hour test and we’d really appreciate prayer, if amy get the chance (she’ll make a crackerjack MD)… Thanks
Em – Prayer for my daughter on city council would br appreciated, she has, as of this morning (Thursday) received 24 threatening Emails demanding that they disband their police department
Michael – tachycardia
Our Phoenix Preacher family, health, healing, joy, peace
Kelly -I have a real need to continue to see my counselor. In addition to the other reasons I see him for I have been having day long panic attacks, on top of the depression and PTSD-C symptoms.
Alissa-My sweet husband has Autism and was let go from his job yesterday.
Patrik -Pray for me, an ER nurse in Indianapolis.
Dan form Georgia- I work in aviation/transportation. We are getting hit HARD as many of you know. I am not even confident when I go into work everyday that it will be my last day (layoff or termination). Also struggling a lot with anxiety.
Chris -My wife started her second career as a nurse this week on the hospital floor that they treat the Covid patients.
Linneia – joint and muscle aches
Nancy – prayer for her discernment of an unexpected opportunity to become a more public advocate for the homeless,
Em – daughter is healing from fracture spine
Michael – I would appreciate prayer as well…life is pretty overwhelming right now.
Captain Kevin – Appreciate prayer. I’ve been in a Fibro/fatigue/depressed funk all week.
Also, I’m teaching piano and voice at a local studio, and need many more students to make things work.
Linnea – Would you pray for Greg? He was treated for an aggressive brain cancer and thought he was clear, but it has roared back. Please pray for healing and that he and his wife come to know the Lord. Thank you!
Xenia-+Pray for the churches of Sri Lanka
Paige – Asking for prayer for a family issue… God knows…. and the silencing of a lying gossip who is spreading slander about me to family members and others. It’s an on going issue that is quite perplexing, and apparently demonic. Twisted, delusional and strange.
cash – depression , PTSD
David H – I could use a prayer. I was diagnosed with Bell’s Palsy . Right side of my face is paralyzed. Prednisone and an antiviral.
Michael – heart aneurysm and a bad valve, bad back and neck issues.
JD – Marshal whose mother told him that she doesn’t love him
Linnea – Jon and Sarah. Please pray that they would know God’s love and would follow Him out of horrible lifestyles to freedom.
Michael, Rick, Joel, Dan, capt. Kevin, Owen – wand to hear from God in their prayer life
JTK- ongoing back issue.
David H – Aunt Ramona has Adenocarcinoma primary lung cancer.
Victor- chronic back pain
Linnea- sister salvation
Paige- 4 boys to be pleasing to God
please, if you are in need of prayer, let us pray with you and for you. If you have a praise let us praise with you. If you have an update on your request above please give us an update.
We care deeply for our online family here and want to be here for you in prayer.
((((((hugs)))))
Dusty…wrong thread. I’ll move it when I get home. Hope you’re well, my friend!
Prescient piece by Michael Gerson (Republican and a Christian) in the Washington Post.
The White, European Jesus of Western imagination is fiction
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-white-european-jesus-of-western-imagination-is-fiction/2020/08/03/e495f5de-d5cb-11ea-aff6-220dd3a14741_story.html