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22 Responses

  1. Terry G DeGraff says:

    I’m helping a friend get their adult son help with recovering from addiction. The son has mentioned U-Turn For Christ as an option. When I look at their web site they actually boast about not using any AA resources or psychology. Plus the Yelp reviews are either 0 stars or 5 stars and no in between, either you submit to a process and love it or you don’t. I’m very inclined to push for any other option available. Anyone have experience with this, either direct or via friend or family? Or a recommendation for a better option in North San Diego or South Riverside counties?

  2. bob1 says:

    I think anytime a “ministry” says they’re antipsychology should be a huge red flag. When I was in CalChap, I can remember several instances where individuals who were suffering greatly saw their suffering worsened because they refused to consider anything other than “read the Bible and pray.” So. I’d use caution. I”d also steer clear of any “all or nothing,” dichotomous approach. Just my 2 cents worth. Also, AA was started by Xns. Good grief!

  3. Alan says:

    I’ve seen both work and both fail colossally. Human psychology is as ideologically captured as is fundamentalism. We need the living Christ and his chosen vessels. He doesn’t check with us.

  4. Officerhoppy says:

    I’ve had limited exposure to Uturn. But what little I’ve had is not positive.

    One man who attended my church applied to attend. In addition to alcohol and substance abuse, he struggled with depression and took meds. They wouldn’t admit him unless he agreed to not take the depression meds.

    I wrestle with depression and have taken meds for about 25 years. I sat under a ministry that believed a Christian, I didn’t have the luxury of being depressed. All that was needed was to fast and pray.

    But after describing how I had been feeling my Christian doctor diagnosed me with depression and explained it wasn’t purely a moral or spiritual issue but a failure of the body to produce enough serotonin to create a sense of well being. And like any other adverse physical conditions, it can be relieved with the help of aspirin, advil. Taking those meds for a headache is not a sin.

    So the man sought other help. Can’t remember what he chose but it wasn’t Uturn. They could have dealt with the depression issues later.

    Granted, Uturn may have changed their policy but that’s my experience.

  5. Michael says:


    I don’t recommend U-Turn…it does occasionally work because certain people respond to the imposition of tight structure in a positive way.

    I probably have as many complaints about abusive behavior in these recovery places as I do the churches that sponsor them

    They can be dangerous…but as Alan said, I’ve seen the same colossal success and failures from both kinds of therapy.

  6. Dan from Georgia says:

    Just my 2 cents…I’ve had depression most/all of my life. It wasn’t until my 30s when I caved into taking meds for my depression. They basically changed my life immensely in the positive direction to the point where I was able to get married and get a decent job and be a provider…a path I definitely wouldn’t have been able to take if I hadn’t pursued MEDICAL intervention.

    This is my path and not saying anyone or everyone else had to copy me or even accept the path I took.

    This is my mileage.

  7. Alan says:

    By all means accept medical intervention as a gift from heaven — and remain sovereign over medically informed choices.

    Psychiatry has been my friend as both pastor and patient.

  8. Michael says:


    Thank God you did…you are a good man, my friend.

  9. Michael says:

    ‘By all means accept medical intervention as a gift from heaven — and remain sovereign over medically informed choices.”

    Well said…

  10. Terry says:

    Thanks for all the confirmations of my suspicions. My pastor is very balanced, not at all fundamentalist, and has taken the young man in for psychiatric evaluation and meds to get through until we can find the best place for him. Our friend’s son is a sensitive man who in the past has been simply thrown in jail and mistreated by law enforcement. He would not do well in a place where you are made to dig your own grave at night or slaughter pigs as therapy. Keep this situation in prayer, as his mother is exhausted.

  11. Michael says:


    These are difficult situations…we’ll keep these folks in our prayers.

  12. Officerhoppy says:

    I think your pastor made a wise decision

    At first, i thought like you that I “caved in” because I didn’t have enough spiritual fortitude to work thru my depression. But after 2 weeks of being on meds, the dark emotional cloud that hovered over my head was gone. I remember saying to my wife, “if I only felt like this for a day, it was worth it”.

    I have no reservations about taking depression meds no of advising others to consider taking them. But before I can do that, I have to spend a significant amount of time talking to folks and releasing them from the spiritual bondage they’ve been placed under due to some poor teaching from the pulpit

    I had a counseling session with a lady last Friday. Spent an hour explaining to her her problem could be physical and not a lack of faith on her part.

    I am hopeful she sees a doctor who will agree that she is depressed and prescribes meds.

  13. Max says:

    I would look into Green Oaks Ranch in Vista, Ca. They have an excellent program for drug and alcohol addiction rehabilitation and recovery.

  14. Eric says:

    Last night at church we had one man suffering from schizophrenia & bipolar, quite disruptive. It was only his 3rd/4th Sunday with us but he’d been asked to play music with me, which didn’t work out so well as his mind was all over the place.

    Another man also with schizophrenia & bipolar – only his 2nd Sunday with us – was doing his best to minister God’s love to the former, whose aggression was enough that some people went outside periodically.

    He (the musician) rang me this morning to apologise. I heard from someone else that too much coffee was partly to blame. It’s a messy church that I’m part of. I’m glad those guys have the medication to keep them out of trouble much of the time.

  15. Captain Kevin says:

    Max, I haven’t heard anything about Green Oak Ranch in years, but when I lived close by, they had a very positive reputation. Our church occasionally referred people to them, and we used their facilities for our yearly men’s retreats.

  16. Dan from Georgia says:

    THank you Michael and Alan and Michael I’ll second what Alan said!

  17. Terry says:

    Thanks Max and Captain Kevin for the Green Oaks referral. I will look into.

  18. Captain Kevin says:

    “Today, the church in America has become so identified with its secular culture that it is difficult to tell them apart. Wanting to retain our last vestiges of power, popularity, and privilege, our churches and Christian movements often seek to grab the headlines. We try to build a kingdom through press releases, crowded stadiums, programs, and “relevant” communication. Like news celebrities, we pander to particular constituencies in order to gain a larger share of the market, instead of simply keeping to our script, proclaiming Christ and him crucified.” Michael Horton

  19. Officerhoppy says:

    Just heard the best description of the current administration: “it’s the administration of the homeless, migrants and squatters”

    You may not like it (especially the migrant part) but I liked it. But I’ll be the first to admit I’m a little cynical!

  20. Michael says:



    The reality for those of us who are actually informed on border issues is that Biden has been a massive disappointment in that he has simply carried on the previous administrations policies and is now trying to make it even harder for people fleeing poverty and violence to be granted asylum.

    I’m also curious as to what policies the previous administration had on homelessness, as I don’t recall any.

    Homelessness and “squatters are state and local issues…the fed could help with money, but not set policies for individual municipalities.

    I’m sure that statement resounded for people who want to hear such…without regard to anything resembling facts.

  21. Alan says:

    Truth is there has never been an administration any more devoted to the elite, the neocon and the bureaucratic class.

  22. Michael says:


    Such is outside my expertise or interest…but I will speak to border issues.

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