Open Blogging

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76 Responses

  1. erunner says:

    GW, things are great in Buen0 Park. That’s why I’m first and you’re not!! :mrgreen:

  2. gomergirl says:

    Ha ha ha…. erunner… that is where I grew up. Its no bueno!

  3. erunner says:

    gg!!!! You have gained new found respect from me! Good thing I can’t read spanish! 🙂

  4. Nonnie says:

    Hey all, have a look at the 4 minute video we made of the JOY Place ministry for special needs folks.
    We have posted it on our website.

  5. gomergirl says:

    Nonnie…. that is so cool. I love the joy on all their faces. How sweet. An that song takes me back….

  6. Bart says:

    At a project in Talent and wanted to make sure I said Hi Michael.
    I drive through Phoenix 4-5 times a year on business trips and always wave my hand and say Hi as I drive past the Phoenix exit.

  7. erunner says:

    I remember when Open Blogging was one of the most active posts here. Now it seems people take the weekend off and wait for Monday’s “Things I Think.” It’s in the 80’s here today! Have a great rest of the day.

  8. Michael says:


    Hi back at you!

  9. I am doing taxes today – mine, and my 2 son’s.

  10. RiBo says:

    “I remember when Open Blogging was one of the most active posts here.”

    Careful what you wish for E, I could start deconstructing the major denominations of the “church” and the major doctrinal positions and the contradictions in the bible etc and get things lively LOL.

  11. RiBo says:

    …or we could start a Calvary Chapel fight LOL.

  12. erunner says:

    RiBo…. I could go to town and post song after song. I’ve got thousands to choose from!! Here’s a classic from my heydey. A simple jam session by real musicians!! Put in on and just soak it in.

  13. Josh Hamrick says:

    Good one e. When I see the Allman’s I think of Marshall Tucker Band. Took my daughter to see them a couple of years ago. The old fellas can still jam.

  14. erunner says:

    Josh, That’s a band I never listened to when I was younger. Great song!!

  15. Ryan Ashton says:

    Please keep praying for my friends and me. I need to be molded into a God-driven man, who out of the security of being loved by Him is able to love others. Pray for the people I’m trying to invest in: vulnerability and openness is easy for me ( for done reason) but not for others.

    Also, Michael. I’d love to still talk to you about forgiveness and everything really. If you have an opportunity, could you email me at and schedule a time please??

    Thank you all. Please pray for Redlands, and that God would reveal the nature of the situation to my friends. I love them and want to make sure they’re safe. One is here with me at BJU named David. PLEASE pray for him, and my relationship with him, and that I’m transformed into EXACTLY who God wants me to be for him, his family, and others.

  16. Filbertz says:

    ex-CC pastor/philanderer Carlos P invited everyone through social media to hear a special teaching on the anti-Christ tomorrow at his new church locally. I can’t help but wonder if he’ll be sharing his testimony. ;

  17. Josh Hamrick says:

    e – they are from a little town just south of here, so they are legends around here.

    Ryan, which BJU are you at?

  18. RiBo says:

    If we’re gonna post music then it’s on like Donkey Kong!!!! 🙂

  19. Josh Hamrick says:

    Ahh yeah, RiBo. That’s strong.

  20. uriahisaliveandwell says:

    You Rock, Ribo Let’s see if this gets posted.

  21. Josh Hamrick says:

    Posted Uriah. Your conspiracy theory has major holes.

  22. I uploaded a video to the internet archive this morning.
    This is a video of a typical worship/healing service at Shekinah Fellowship. Benny Hinn came along years later in much the exact same style and format of Brant Baker.
    Here it is many years later. One thing that stands out is the timelessness of the worship which Benny Hinn to this day incorporates in his own services.Brant was one of the first programs on TBN when it started so Benny had access to the old tapes. Some times i wonder if he studied them…LOL JK.

    Brant Baker passed away and Shekinah Fellowship of Long Beach no longer exist.

  23. RB,
    Well we know why RB is offended by the video he posted. How many times has he said you can’t know right from wrong – you can’t know good from evil – that everything is subjective / relative.

    So the kids wanting to cheat in class, in an RB world could actually be the righteous ones and the kid who wanted to stand up for what he thought was right is the villain.

    Ah, to live in an RB world..

  24. Ryan Ashton says:

    Josh: Haha. Bob Jones University. Yeah. Don’t worry, it’s okay. 🙂

    I would love to stay and chat but 1) all the links I would share you all — I’m sure — have seen them already, and 2) I need to finish an English essay. AHHHHhhhhh….

  25. Josh Hamrick says:

    Wow Ryan. So you are just an hour south of me then. That’s cool, man. Praying for you.

  26. I have not heard of Bill Gothard, but I don’t homeschool. I will take it you didn’t like him.

  27. WenatcheeTheHatchet says:

    Just keeping up with a few things in the local church scene’s kept me busy enough that I haven’t thought about contributing to Open Blogging in a long time. Saw the Wind Rises again this weekend, though. Amazing, dark film.

  28. “I will take it you didn’t like him.”

    what’s not to like?

  29. g,
    Reading about what he taught, I can’t imagine more than a dozen toothless hillbillies ever attending.Have you sat under this man’s teachings?

  30. Josh Hamrick says:

    MLD, he was apparently pretty influential at one time, with a pretty large following. I never heard of him either until all this.

  31. “Have you sat under this man’s teachings?”

    I avoided him because of his teachings, but have had friends and associates who warmly embraced his philosophy.

    “I can’t imagine more than a dozen toothless hillbillies ever attending”

    That’s a wildly unfair image of homeschoolers and the churches which promoted Gothard.
    The folks who believe in and practice homeschooling have many reasons for choosing it, and its their libertarian right, so I think it better to dismiss such a negative image.

    Two common threads were
    (1) fear, of government, of culture, of s*x, and
    (2) control, the individuals and families who practiced and enforced Gothard’s philosophy were control freaks.

  32. Filbertz says:

    bill gothard was a pharisee dressed in gospel clothing & appealed to a fairly wide spectrum of church folk in the late 70’s and 80’s. I was ‘sent’ to his Institutes of Basic Youth Conflicts in 1983 by some folks during my first youth ministry stint…evidently hoping I’d embrace his approach or philosophy. I thought he was laughable, but underestimated the appeal he had among some more conservative types. His BYC conferences waned in popularity and he became more niche-like in his appeal after that. I didn’t know he was still viable until I read of the emerging charges against him; now he sounds like a real creeper.

  33. Josh,
    His influence was huge. Back in the day whenever Bill Gothard’s “Basic Youth Conflicts” hit a region it was as big a buzz in windup and pitches from pulpits as Billy Graham.

  34. Filbertz, exactly

  35. Filbertz says:

    I think you fairly represent his core teaching, but would add ‘submission’ as a keystone–women to men, children to parents–especially to dad, Christians to their pastors/leaders, etc. Sadly, he was/became exactly who he warned his ‘followers’ about.

  36. Filbertz says:

    …without the white panel van…

  37. Nonnie says:

    When we first became Christians in 1977, we kept hear about Bill G., but all the people that raved about him gave us the creeps. We are thanking God that He kept us from falling into that pit.

  38. PP Vet says:

    Gothard’s stuff was a cousin of the Self-Confrontation course.

    That is: Here’s what the scriptural Christian life looks like in behavioral specifics. If you do not live like this, you need to change.

  39. Fil,
    “…without the white panel van…”

    The submission thing has always been a favorite in the fear crowd. Instead mutual respect and love the formula of submission and headship has been the carrot dangled to motivate the followers toward an unobtainable utopia

    Yep, that was the same timeframe for me as well. Glad you avoided the mindgame

  40. PP Vet,
    Quite the “works based” trap.

  41. Nonnie says:

    Sadly, too many in the church today are still falling into the works based trap.

  42. CrucifiED says:

    Nobody sings pretty folk songs about the Antichrist quite like Larry Norman.

  43. RiBo says:

    Gothard is pretty similar to many of the Calvary Chapel Moses Model type pastors. He’s specially anointed, hear’s special from God, high control, claims to be pious and holy in front of the scenes, is very harsh on his “sheep”…yet behind the scenes is a depraved lunatic.

  44. RiBo says:

    MLD, you have no clue why I posted that video. Your trolling is beginning to dominate you.

  45. Filbertz says:

    to the best of my understanding, Gothard never made any in-roads with CC. That said, few ‘outsiders’ with their own agendas ever made in-roads with CC…one had to be an insider with an agenda. 😉

  46. Had some IFB folks visit the house yesterday from a local church. Had the distinct feeling they were uncomfortable around me. It seemed to me to be the beard and not well trimmed hair from how they were looking at me. My wife, who has a former IFB background, said I was probably right.

  47. Filbertz says:

    why were they there, recruiting?

  48. On a good note, we have flowers blooming in the yard and the trees are budding out.
    Spring has sprung here.

  49. Fil,
    Making sure I knew about hell. Gave me a tract and everything. I could tell they were put off though.
    I refuse to clean up by IFB standards though. 21years in the military was enough for me.

  50. Found the tract online. Crossway sells it.

    Important to know, I am not saying they aren’t saved or trying to mock them.
    Also, not trying to say all IFB’s are made the same. This just seems to be how they are where I live.
    I think they have added legalistic rules that are unnecessary and my wife never wants to attend one from past experience she has had.
    I myself would find it foolish to place myself under some of the extra-biblical rules they think are necessary.
    Their mission tactics could definitely use some honing.
    It always seems they are seeking people that fit their mold already and part of that mold is some physical and dress standards that are just nowhere to be found in scripture.
    Now, it is true that we are all to strive through God’s help to be conformed through Christ to degrees throughout our lives, but for people that have a view of Jesus as a long haired bearded man they sure don’t like that type in the South.
    I just think they are weaker brothers in many ways.

  51. I never understood the draw to para church organizations – why do people look outside their own church? It was like the people who told me I had to raise my kids with the Dobson books – and then they would give me a couple.

    I used the books to swat my kids, but I never read them. A side note, I didn’t find that a Dobson book was any more effective in swatting my kids than a math book – so I don’t know what these folks were talking about.

  52. G,
    You objected to me saying – “I can’t imagine more than a dozen toothless hillbillies ever attending”

    LOL – I looked up some of his materials on line – I don’t know how YOU can defend people who used his materials and philosophy to school their kids – mental child abuse.

    But you did make me see the light – I owe an apology … to toothless hillbillies wherever they are

  53. “I don’t know how YOU can defend people who used his materials and philosophy to school their kids – mental child abuse.

    I defend the individuals with whom I had fellowship during a past season of my life, and they were wonderful, well meaning but fearful persons. I kept my envelope pushing outrageous self in check because of love.

    Most of their children have grown up into more balanced adults who love their fearful folks. Yay for the presence and power of The Risen Jesus in the lives of these kids who chose Jesus over fear.

  54. Hey, if the Gothard materials are good, then they are good.

    Well, as I said,I don’t know Gothard and I am not a home schooler – so I will go with your opinion.

    Who was the home schooling guru brian was speaking of a couple of weeks ago? Wasn’t he nuts also? Is home schooling psyche run by those in lala land.? Are home schooling parents sucked in by these guys? Perhaps the state does need to intervene. I only said perhaps.

  55. “Hey, if the Gothard materials are good, then they are good.”

    That is absolutely not my opinion. Nowhere did I ever say that “Gothard materials are good” in the way your comment at #58 is stated. All materials are subject to common sense and review, and Bill Gothard’s materials will not get any kind of endorsement from me.

  56. Steve Wright says:

    What made Jason’s article last week so pathetic is illustrated by this link.

    Ben Carson has an opinion on this country as am American success story, and views on Obamacare as a medical professional.

    However, it is the left that can’t stomach a black person who expresses anything that does not toe the Democrat party line. We’ve seen it before with others. Senator Tim Scott is another new victim of their intolerance. And of course, Condi Rice is an old victim but under a fresh assault as the intolerant liberals of Rutgers actually protest a former Secretary of State as a commencement speaker – using Iraq as an excuse while conveniently forgetting that both of the Sec of States under Obama voted their full support for the Iraq War. But consistency was never a priority for liberal race-baiters.

    And whereas most racists are likely apolitical and non-voting, (thus neither liberal or political) the people who do focus on race in the nastiest of terms that ARE politically active are consistently found on one side of the spectrum..and it isn’t the right.

    Look at that hate towards Dr. Carson. Evil and disgusting.

  57. Glen says:

    I heard Gothard speak in 1970 or 1971 at a Chapel service at BIOLA. He spoke on Joshua 1:8 and seemed like prosperity gospel to me. I knew people that loved The Lord, meditated on the Word and yet they weren’t prosperous or successful. Too formulaic.
    In the 90’s I went with a friend and his family to an advanced seminar. My friends were not gothardites and got a few stares from the frozen chosen. They were there in shorts and t-shirts (it was a sports arena that was being used) and my friend had facial hair and the mother had short hair. The content of the seminar seemed like psycho-babble to me and the way many were behaving was cult like.
    I’ve known of a church that folded because the pastor started preaching “Bill Gothard says” and many families that had good homeschooled kids who totally rebelled when they were on their own. I also know of a family that used a little of the Character stories and their kids turned out ok probably because they didn’t deify Bill.
    The whole devotion that people have to leaders seems creepy to me.

    They sure were selling lots of stuff……………

  58. Glen says:

    Agree with Steve’s number 60 – 100%!

  59. erunner says:

    I’ve watched conservative blacks get this treatment through the years and it is pretty pathetic. It’s become quite predictable. Sadly people believe this garbage. Jesus does have one thing in common with politics though. Your loyalty to a political party or Jesus is bound to bring grief to your life the more devout you are.

  60. PP Vet says:

    Conservatives are by comparison to liberals, polite, well-mannered, happy, tolerant, well-adjusted, and at peace with themselves.

    And probably less race-obsessed.

    Let’s not buy into the defamation that liberals put forth.

  61. PP Vet says:

    Steve Hill passed away today at age 60.

  62. Scott says:

    I was thinking yesterday about the “Occupy Wall Street” bunch. Where did they all go?

  63. RiBo says:

    My source in the Calvary Chapel Rob McCoy, who also happens to be candidate McCoy for California Assembly, has granted permission to be known and will go on the record. She is very credible and is currently an officer serving in our US Air Force. She says there is another girl who was allegedly raped/molested by a Calvary Chapel youth pastor who was hired by McCoy after the guy was fired from another church for supposedly and allegedly getting into some trouble there.

    My source says she was molested by a member of McCoy’s staff as well.

    This is very similar to other Calvary Chapel situations and illustrates yet again that there seems to be a major problem in CC and an unwillingness to address the problem and put in proper checks and balances and transparency etc to help ensure kids are safe at Calvary Chapel.

  64. RiBo says:

    If any of you Calvary Chapel guys still think there is no problem in CC and that there aren’t consistent patterns of abuse and then cover-up and also poor hiring practices and poor thinking that believes guys ‘repent’ and are washed clean and can be with kids, and if you think that Calvary Chapel dodged all the bullets so far and will get away with this garbage forever, you are wrong and you’re going to see some major stuff coming down in the coming years.

  65. Scott, I saw some occupy people up in the Santa Rosa area about a year ago. I was going to join them for an hour, but my wife said no.

  66. brian says:

    My deepest sympathies to the Hill family, Steve Hill came from a hard background he did what he could for Jesus with the power of the Spirit. I hope he finds peace.

    Not to sour this post but Gothard and his ilk or tools, nothing more, I dont get how people actually buy I mean literally their bs. The thing that got Gothard shown the door was the fact is “ministry” lost money. All that abuse nonsense had no meaning at all. If he was still raking in the cash God Himself could not have touched him and that is as sure as gravity and the sun rising.

  67. I love jumping in people’s protests – I don’t care which side, just to carry a sign and talk to the people.
    I marched in a pro abortion rally 3 or 4 yrs ago just to see what’s up and earlier I did a No on Prop 8 rally with the homosexuals.

    Good learning experiences.The Occupy guys would have been fun.

  68. brian says:

    “They sure were selling lots of stuff…”

    And that is the holy of holies and that is what covered his behavior for so long. But the second the return on investment went negative he was a goner, it seems that is how the spirit of the corporation works. I know the Holy Spirit does not work that way but I am a heretic and I need to repent. What a strange religion this is??

  69. brian says:

    “The Occupy guys would have been fun.”

    From personal experience yes they are, confused and a bit contradictory but they are a hoot. I never spent the night and I had to go to work so I was one of the hanger ons vs the truly committed.

  70. brian says:

    I have had racist feelings in my life, I am totally ashamed of me, it was two african american men the saved me when I was being mugged by some white guys with a shotgun and chain when I was a kid 17 years old. I got hit a few times with some brass knuckles and obtuse enough to bleed all over the police station. I have said the “n” word one time in public to a group of african americans in a car ahead of me and almost lost my bowls when they turned to challenge me. I was a complete coward and it taught me I needed to repent of my deep seated racism. It made me take classes and try to move on past my peddy pathetic view of the world.

    I tried to learn about issues that african american people have to struggle with, I discovered I could not because I am not them. But it did make me much less racist and condescending but I still keep a check on it.

  71. Ernesto says:

    I realized last night that I, and everyone who believes that God is both omnipotent and omniscient, is a practical Calvinist. Quite simply, He could have created a Universe in which everyone would come to faith and chose instead to create a Universe in which He infallibly knew everyone who would believe and everyone who would not. Either way, it was ultimately His choice that decided.

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