Paul Crouch

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90 Responses

  1. Ricky Bobby says:


    If the Christians* can’t call this guy a con man and thief, then the so-called “church” has zero credibility…and much of it has zero.

    I can’t believe Jay Sekulow and the ACLJ gave a happy/positive send off for this wolf. Very telling of how corrupt mainstream Christianity* really is. Can’t call a spade a spade for money’s sake.

  2. monax says:

    “This was a man who morally, ethically, and doctrinally was the antithesis of of a godly leader.” Same can be said of a couple Calvary Chapel pastors I can think of!

    I wonder if Crouch is presently with the Lord, or if Sheol beneath was stirred up to meet him.

  3. RB,
    Well at least he is in heaven with the Lord! … right?

  4. Paul Crouch died owing me money.

  5. Michael says:


    Did you not receive your 100 fold increase? 🙂

  6. More like a 500 fold decrease 🙂

  7. fyi says:

    If Paul Crouch is in hell at this moment, we who are believers need to be very careful not to enjoy the fact that he is. Is.28 says that judgment is a strange work for God; His heart was broken over Crouch’s ministry and, if not wasved, it breaks again over his eternal doom. Maybe our comments can reflect that heart as it is His heart.

  8. Michael says:

    Don’t feel bad…I bought Swaggart some ugly hookers back in the day…

  9. fyi says:

    if he was not saved… oops

  10. Michael says:


    I don’t quarrel at all with what you are saying…and I’m not judging the mans eternal state.
    I do however, have to judge his fruit and it’s awful.

  11. Michael, I did music for TBN for a week back in 97ish. Contracts signed, everything. He stiffed me 🙂

  12. Michael says:


    You’ve never shared this with us before!

  13. I may have…or maybe not. In retrospect it was a small some of money, but for a tiny ministry like mine, it was crippling.

  14. Nonnie says:

    Josh, you just didn’t have enough faith. Didn’t you put your hand on the TV?

  15. fyi says:

    Michael, I apologize for not being more clear. I wasn’t speaking of you in my comment. Your comments were well–considered. It is just too easy for Christians to get carnal and forget God grieves over every lost soul. You know, I don’t believe Crouch started out to be a wolf. That’s what is saddest of all. I think he was a man with a vision and that vision became corrupted. No doubt he destroyed the faith of many; I have no problem with the truth being stated. But we need to measure our responses in light of God’s heart. That’s all I was saying. Again, no issue with what you have written at all. At least on this issue… 🙂

  16. Nonnie says:

    Sorry Josh, I posted number 14 before I read your number 11. I didn’t realise you had a very real negative encounter with Crouch.

  17. Ricky Bobby says:

    MLD said, “RB,
    Well at least he is in heaven with the Lord! … right?”

    Well if God is truly “good” and if God truly “loves his enemies” which is the “new law” one of the Jesus’s in the bible laid out…and if Jesus truly “paid the penalty for all sin”….then if there is heaven, then Paul Crouch’s consciousness or soul or whatever will probably be there.

    If God is the Quid Pro Quo Fundamentalist God who smites his enemies and exacts vengeance on his enemies and tortures them in hell forever and that Jesus’s sacrifice was only for the Elect or whatever or only for those who find the magic “correct formula” to be officially saved and hear and respond to the “correct” version of the Gospel….the Paul Crouch probably has a pitch fork up his arse this moment.

  18. Bob Sweat says:


    File a claim against the estate. 😉

    Tim Lahaye also spoke praise of the ministry of Crouch.

  19. Michael says:


    Agreed…and 🙂

  20. Ricky Bobby says:

    FYI said, “But we need to measure our responses in light of God’s heart. ”

    Err, not really. As usual the bible presents two competing Narratives:

    Deuteronomy 28:63 Just as it pleased the LORD to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess.

    Psalm 135:6-11 The LORD does whatever pleases him, in the heavens and on the earth, in the seas and all their depths. He makes clouds rise from the ends of the earth; he sends lightning with the rain and brings out the wind from his storehouses. He struck down the firstborn of Egypt, the firstborn of men and animals. He sent his signs and wonders into your midst, O Egypt, against Pharaoh and all his servants. He struck down many nations and killed mighty kings Sihon king of the Amorites, Og king of Bashan and all the kings of Canaan.

    Proverbs 1:24-26 But since you rejected me when I called and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand, since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my rebuke, I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you.

    Ezekiel 5:30 Then my anger will cease and my wrath against them will subside, and I will be avenged. And when I have spent my wrath upon them, they will know that I the LORD have spoken in my zeal.

    Revelation 18:20 Rejoice over her, O heaven! Rejoice, saints and apostles and prophets! God has judged her for the way she treated you. (Rejoice over the death of the wicked and enemy).

  21. Ricky Bobby says:

    Do you pastors actually read the whole bible or just the parts that fit your box?

  22. Ricky Bobby says:

    Basically, the bible says many times that God and heaven and earth rejoices in God’s vengeance and destruction of the wicked etc. Again, mixed messages. Two different Narratives, two different Gods. One that smites his enemies and rejoices, one that loves his enemies and takes no pleasure etc.

    Jeremiah 51:48
    Then heaven and earth and all that is in them will shout for joy over Babylon, for out of the north destroyers will attack her,” declares the LORD.

    Revelation 18:6
    Give back to her as she has given; pay her back double for what she has done. Pour her a double portion from her own cup.

    Revelation 19:2
    for true and just are his judgments. He has condemned the great prostitute who corrupted the earth by her adulteries. He has avenged on her the blood of his servants.”

  23. Ricky Bobby says:

    Don’t shoot the messenger, it is what it is. You guys say the bible is “perfect, infallible, error-free, etc etc” and that we are to look to it as the sole “authority” for truth etc.

    Then you make statements that are completely contradicted by the same bible.

    You pick the one verse you like that frames God as some sort of good guy and then you ignore the many other verses that speak to God rejoicing over his destruction of the enemy, the wicked etc.

  24. Ricky Bobby says:

    So, today, I’ll go with the God of the bible that “rejoices” in the death of the wicked. I rejoice that Paul Crouch has croaked.

  25. Don’t worry Nonnie, that was hilarious. 🙂

    I didn’t touch the TV, but I did get out my miracle prayer hankie.

  26. very well said and so true. You could have been much more harsh and wouldn’t have been off mark

  27. Hank HAanegraf didn’t have a problem putting Paul Crouch on blast.

  28. filbertz says:

    Tim LaHaye took a page from Crouch’s manual…

    and turned it into the Left Behind cash cow.

  29. Ricky Bobby says:

    FYI said, “If Paul Crouch is in hell at this moment, we who are believers need to be very careful not to enjoy the fact that he is.”

    Bible says to “rejoice” when God zaps the wicked and that it “pleases God to ruin and destroy” and that there is much “joy” in heaven and “shouts for joy” when God nukes the wicked and that God will “laugh” at their disaster and “mock” their calamity, etc etc.

    So, not sure what bible you’re reading from, but you seem to pick one or two verses and ignore many many others…that is if the bible is “perfect, and infallible and the sole authority on truth” as you and most of the other pastors on here seem to assert all the time.

  30. Bob Sweat says:


    You can blow your nose in that miracle prayer hankie and find nothing there when you finish. 😯

  31. Lets try!


    Nope, Didn’t work Bob?

  32. Bob says:

    Out of 28 posts it looks like RB is going to win again!


    What’s truly sad is the evidence against the Paul Crouches of the world are clear, present and yet no one will stand up and lead the way to say, “he has no clothes!”

    I was reading this AM about the trio of Furtick, and his amigos, Ed Young, Jr. and Perry Noble. Here again are three shining examples of men who get paid (fleece is more like it) than most top level executives (many of whom actually work for their funds) in the USA. If one could measure the dollar value of the services they provide my guess is owning an Apple product is a far better use (not investment) of one’s money. If I were to invest my God given funds for eternity I think Jesus taught a different story in Matthew 25 than these examples do when they proclaim, “we’re the store-house of Malachi!”

    I guess the real question is, “why do people put up with these shenanigans?” Each generation has them and no generation seems to be able to stop their sickness which develops men (and women) of similar seed.

    I’ll give one simple test; When anyone says, “I speak for God!” Turn and run the other way!

    Rants over.

    Giving it back to RB

  33. Ricky, do you think context matters at all when reading the bible? Just asking. I want to know what you believe about it.

  34. Ricky Bobby says:

    Josh, the context of all the verses I presented is the same as the context FYI asserted. All those verses have to do with “the heart of God” and “the enemy, the wicked” etc. No way to spin it to fit your box. It is what it is. Read the text, it’s plain and simple. It takes a lot of gymnastics and intellectual dishonesty to wriggle out of those facts.

  35. Ricky Bobby says:

    “I’ll give one simple test; When anyone says, “I speak for God!” Turn and run the other way!”

    Amen Bob.

    Have a good rest of the thread today. I’ve said what I needed to say.

  36. Ricky, don’t leave. I’m engaging you with an honest question. I didn’t ask about the context of those verses, or fyi’s verse, I just wanted to know your thoughts on how context matters when reading the bible. Not trying to wiggle on anything. I’m not even disagreeing with you on anything.

  37. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    Didn’t the Billy Graham organization also lament Crouch’s passing?

  38. Scott Barber says:

    Ricky Bobby,

    I think you look further into how those two competing narratives are reconciled in Christ, who made us children of mercy, and therefore bearers of that mercy to the world.

  39. Scott Barber says:

    * “I think you should”

  40. Ricky Bobby says:

    Josh, my apologies if you thought I was addressing you with that comment, it was directed to Fundamentalism/Evangelicalism in general, not directed directly to you….more to FYI’s comments and his CC mixed perspectives.

    I’m happy to engage those questions tomorrow. I don’t want to dominate a thread and I appreciate your wanting to discuss those things, it is appreciated.

  41. erunner says:

    fyi, Your comments resonated with me. I understand all of the bad associated with Crouch and TBN yet I find it difficult in considering his eternal state.

    His passing has also made me wonder how many souls are with God now and how many will be because of TBN. There was so much potential for TBN if things had been handled differently.

  42. Two things about TBN –
    1.) in the late 80s and early 90s there was a family that sang on TBN quite a bit – for the life of me I cannot remember their names, but they live 3 houses down from me. They drove around the country in a big motor home all painted up with their singing name. The guy had a gray curly hair, the mom was kinda heavy with black hair and the two boys, one was quite heavy and the younger one was skinny with a black mullet. Can anyone think of who they may be?
    They were actually normal people around the house.

    2.) I can look out my office window and look at the big TBN headquarters across the freeway.

    I don’t think TBN is as bad a people make out – but they did have on some crazy people… but they also had some very good ones also.

  43. erunner says:

    I remember the family from # 1 but can’t recall their names. All I can come up with is Nancy Harmon who sang with the Victory Voices.

  44. He schooled Benny Hinn in the fine art of being a fund raiser. Benny’s tax free “parish” is in the same neighborhood as Magic Johnson’s beach home. A beautiful exclusive guard gated neighborhood here in southern California where some of the kings of the earth enjoy living.

    Benny had two lots there until he recently sold one of them for a nice profit.

    Paul had some great homes just up the coast from Benny in Newport Beach, also a guarded gated community for kings of the earth.

    Hey it took a man like Paul to build TBN. TBN will go on as usual. Paul has replicated himself in his sons as far as being capable of running things. Both sons are just as tough as the old man was.

  45. It’s funny because the office I worked in last year, I could look out my window at Benny Hinn’s headquarters.

    I must be blessed.

  46. “Benny had two lots there until he recently sold one of them for a nice profit.”

    Benny must be blessed by God, because in this real estate market the past 5 yrs, absolutely no one is selling at a profit – let alone a nice profit.

  47. Neo says:

    I appreciate Brother Paul’s championing of gay rights in the Christian community.

  48. brian says:

    Dr. Caner apparently got elected as a president of a SB collage. I knew this would happen, it always happens always. Good on him he lasted the storm and now is back in the saddle. I admire these people in a strange way I really do. They walk between the raindrops.

  49. Jackie Alnor says:

    MLK – Laverne and Edith Tripp.

  50. Jackie comes through!! That is them … thanks

  51. erunner says:

    I remember them well Jackie. I just could never get into their style of music.I hope you’re well.

  52. Jackie Alnor says:

    I was no fan either erunner – I’m doing fine – life is good.
    thanks for asking

  53. erunner says:

    I was thinking of you being without Bill as I know this time of year can be difficult. Glad you’re doing well.

  54. randallslack says:

    My parents were sucked into the so-called “Christian TV” trap. Name it and claim it, rebuke it, envision your future, etc. my mother died a terrible, broken hearted death. When she was well, she spoke highly of Paul and Jan. Broke my heart.

  55. Wow, just saw this quote on twitter:

    “I believe there is scarcely an error in doctrine or a failure in applying Christian ethics that cannot be traced finally to imperfect and ignoble thoughts about God.” ~A.W. Tozer, “The Knowledge of the Holy”

  56. I will leave others to pontificate, but I will just think on this and see how it applies to my own thoughts.

  57. Oh, and actually not aimed at the post or thread. Just felt like sharing.

  58. Ixtlan says:

    I could never make any sense of Crouch’s TV programming. Years ago, I’d get really high and watch him on TV. It was during my almost becoming an atheist period. I’d sit there and think to myself, ” this is Christianity? f—……!

  59. David says:


    I am truly sorry to hear about your parents. Gary Greenwald of the Eagles Nest Ministries is part of the good ole boy pentecostal handshake crowd also and has destroyed many a family with that “you can’t out give God” line. For awhile in the 90’s his ‘assistants’ were wearing armpit holsters under their suit jackets.

    One lady bought the line lock stock and barrel. When her children came home from school she had sold their beds and toys so she could give the money to the “ministry.”

    But strange enough as it seems the guy is anointed and people actually get physically healed in his ministry. One of my sons good friends was born lacking one half of his jaw. His parents had Gary pray over him and the next day when the guy woke up he had a full jaw.

    Been meaning to ask you:
    Would you be the Randall Slack from Rev. Brant Baker’s realm perchance?

  60. David says:


    Those multimillion dollar homes are still selling. The big boys have a lot coming in from stock or oil or what ever investment they have per month. Been working on homes in Benny’s neighborhood for over 15 years. Some of those homes remain empty most of the year because they are just one of the ‘beach homes.’

    One of them is a cattle rancher in Texas, another a base ball player, another a surgeon, and so on. These guys are untouched by the economy it seems. One home I worked on originally was built for 3 million on a 2 million dollar lot. It recently sold for 9 million.

    The buying and selling of luxury homes will always do well. Just read the local gossip column of the news paper. Always see stars and athletes moving in and out of those homes for outrageous sums. I would have to disagree with your assessment sir.

    Oh…forgot to mention, they don’t take out loans, they pay cash. The luxury world is a whole different animal.

    You were looking at Benny’s offices and studio not his ‘parish’ home which is in Ritz Cove Dana Point.

    You said:

    #43 “I can look out my office window and look at the big TBN headquarters across the freeway.”

    And you said:
    #46″ It’s funny because the office I worked in last year, I could look out my window at Benny Hinn’s headquarters.

    I must be blessed.”

    Yes your eyes have beheld the glory of the flesh. The birthday cake on Bear street and the wonderment along the 73.

  61. David says:

    You said:
    I’ll give one simple test; When anyone says, “I speak for God!” Turn and run the other way!

    I can think of a few who would disagree with you if they could, Moses and a few other fellas. Isaiah loved the phrase “Thus saith the Lord.”

    King James Version of Zechariah 8:20.

    Thus saith the LORD of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities:

    I think a prophet speaks for God.

    Matthew 10:40
    “He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me. He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward;

    Running is not reception me thinks.

    Ok…got my scissors Bob and am trimming those pesky God speaker passages out of my Bible…

  62. Dave,
    So when anyone says, “I speak for God!” – you listen?

  63. It’s funny – my pastor speaks for God … but he doesn’t tell anyone that he speaks for God.

  64. Nonnie says:

    Ixtlan, re your 59. 😀

    In my searching years, I used to get high, turn on TV and laugh at Tammy Faye Bakker as she would talk about Jesus and cry and the mascara run down her face. However, the Lord used that show to touch my heart and I actually prayed and asked if Jesus was real and through her and several friends and relatives, God wooed me home.
    I always loved and pitied Tammy Faye. She seemed like a little used and abused child with a horribly wounded heart , who had great love for broken souls. I’m thankful that God loves cracked pots.

  65. brian says:

    That is a wonderful Testimony Nonnie from my evangelical experience the very fact I even listened to to Tammy Faye meant I was apostate. And even if I condemned her and her family to eternal persition I was most likely still apostate because I did not meet the 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000^1000000 requirments to being truly saved. I have learned that basically none of us are truly saved it is a giant cosmic pyramid scheme and we all lost. Thats all of us including the truly reformed.

    But because I am an unregenerate piece of crap I actually think God may well save us, even me. I often ponder why God could not save me, I agree He should not waste His time but I do hope He does. What I have learned is that God hates, violently and with malice of forethought, and with eternal vengeance God hates. He stays up nights hating us, from the foundation of the universe God, personally hated the non elect. If you can find some good news in that let me know I would love to hear it. Offered for what it is worth.

  66. David @ 61: Yes. My email address is: if you would like to converse.

  67. David,
    Most people think that TBN built that property off the 405,but if I remember correctly, that used to be the old Full Gospel Businessmen’s Fellowship headquarters.

    I’ll bet that was a fun group if you knew the handshake.

  68. Stop Running Bob says:


    You don’t get it.

    Mose prophesied there would be another like him and that is Jesus. He also warned about those who said they were like him and said if they failed to stone them.

    You might also remember the people, after actually hearing God at His mountain, said to Mose “you listen to God and tell us whist He says.

    The prophets always called Israel back to God, chastised their Priests for self indulgence and failure to live up to the instructions given by God for their service and the people for straying to false Gods.

    Paul reminded the readers in his Romans letters that nature itself speaks of a God and we know Jesus said Moses spoke of Him.

    Now when Paul a Crouch types come and say “God told me” whom should I listen to? The scriptures and creation or him?

    No you’re right maybe running is wrong, we should listen to Mose whom a God actually spoke directly to. What did he say to do to them?

    BTW are you clothed? I thought I heard a little boy say something. Naw it was about Furtick and his buddies.

  69. Fool me once Bob says:


    I don’t know you or a thing about you accept you have moved forward with the scripture bite approach to confrontation and I have found when one does so they can make it say just about anything they want for the Bible to say, including “I speak for God.” But somewhere in their mess they forget to include the whole book and the history behind so many of the statements the authors recorded and God preserved for us to read.

    I will add a scripture bite to your list; Jesus said this
    Matt 7:21-24 NASB (emphasis and italics are mine)
    “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

    So the question I have is this, “Since it seems these people did “speak for God” (at least they thought they were) what reason did Jesus tell them to “depart from Him?” Or was this only applicable to the people of Israel and the time?

    Maybe instead of giving these people money and assets to enrich them we should actually do what scripture says about it (and I don’t mean the whole “storehouse thing” taught by self-interested individuals, many of whom “prophesy” and such).

  70. Ixtlan says:

    Nonnie. 😉

  71. erunner says:

    Nonnie, There’s no restricting God and the means He chooses to bring people to Himself. I loved reading your story.

  72. Nonnie says:

    Thanks Erunner. Amen…the Lord uses the foolish to confound the wise.
    Brian, I do hope and I believe you know in your heart that those who condemn you and others are the ones who are really deceived. I believe that you know that you are loved with an everlasting love. At least I HOPE you know that. God bless you, brother.

  73. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    Screw TBN and all those PIMP$ on there!

  74. Neo says:

    Is it mere irony that chuck smith and Paul crouch, avowed enemies, died so close to the same time as one another? Reminds me of Jefferson and Adams dying on the same day, July 4 no less.

  75. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    “Is it mere irony that chuck smith and Paul crouch, avowed enemies, died so close to the same time as one another? Reminds me of Jefferson and Adams dying on the same day, July 4 no less.”

    Yeah and they both put what amounts to a spiritual Hex on their enemies

  76. No, it is more akin that people on here that see such things probably look for signs in the stars or study the tea leaves at the bottom of the cup.

  77. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    I just had tea this afternoon, I didn’t study any leaves tho

  78. Solomon Rodriguez says:


    your avatar bears a striking resembelence to “Dirty” Dutch Mantel

  79. Nah, just me.

  80. Neo says:

    I just thinks its funny if not ironic.

  81. PP Vet says:

    How could anybody survive three days underwater trapped in an air pocket.

    Ridiculous. Cannot possibly be true.

    Although my understanding is, He prayed a lot.

  82. brian says:

    The stuff with Dr. Caner really troubles me, I had a long post but I dont have the money to fight a lawsuit so I deleted it. Yes Dr. Caner you win and that is holy and god honoring note the small “g”. You know my family had three times we could have sued another person and won, it was a sure thing and we would have been right, one time included a death of one of our family. But my parents actually believed they did not want to be burdened because other factors took care of the “wrongful” death situation. The man lost his license do to other issues. We could have made money but did not want to dishonor the memory of the family member. I was glad we did what we did, some folks thought we were stupid, even pathetic for not taking them to court, I am sure me and mine were morally deficient in some strange way.

    I would hate to bring anyone to court myself, though I think there are many reasons why people should. I think I would get physically ill if I tried to sue another Christian, even though most Christians do not consider me a Christian. I can tell you this, I am terrified that some of them might sue me if I ever spilled my guts. It is an effective tool thus always justified in using and I do mean always justified.

  83. brian says:

    PS if people think it is easy for me to share these things, it is literally gut wrenching and often leaves me feeling very ill and upset, I think I do it because I want to help. I do put a bit of a snark on some of what I say, but no. I dont want attention more then others, I am not trying to manipulate and I am not looking for sympathy. I just need a place to talk about this to get it out of my heart.

  84. Dude says:

    Whats really sad about American christianity is how gulible people are.When the day of judgement comes ,a lot of christians will have to give an account for their refusal to test the spirits .

  85. Headless Unicorn Guy says:

    Hey it took a man like Paul to build TBN. TBN will go on as usual. Paul has replicated himself in his sons as far as being capable of running things. Both sons are just as tough as the old man was.

    “Sons” PLURAL?
    The King is dead.
    The TBN throne is empty.
    Let the Game of Thrones begin — dagger, poison, and Red Wedding.

  86. Headless Unicorn Guy says:

    Just think:


  87. Nonnie says:

    We lived in Asia and TBN was on there. A friend of mine’s little girl saw Jan Crouch and screamed, ” Mommy, there’s a witch on Christian TV.” That is a true story!!!

  88. Rotten lipped? Bob says:

    I think these are true:


    “A friend of mine’s little girl saw Jan Crouch and screamed, ” Mommy, there’s a witch on Christian TV.”

    I said the same thing and wondered if Jan had gotten her make up lesson from Tammy Faye”

    I’m not sure this is true:

    “a lot of christians will have to give an account for their refusal to test the spirits .”

    Of course scripture say all are accountable for their words (emphasis mine)

    Matt 12:33-37

    33  “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit.
    34  “You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart.
    35  “The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil.
    36  “But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment.
    37  “For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

    What does this say about how I talk about Crouch, Furtick and the other money launders? What’s the fruit of my lips (or fingers no the keyboard) and does this mean I can’t call these men evil and swindlers of weak women?

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