Praying the Kid Comes Home…

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153 Responses

  1. JoelG says:

    Thank you for saying this for those at a loss for words….

  2. Michael says:


    Thank you.
    I’m still at a loss for words…this is the best I can do right now.

  3. John 20:29 says:

    we do have a deadly virus wiping out our kids right now IMV… however, it may just be too subtle and pervasive to stop… when the children die, the problem may be far deeper than the weapon used to kill them

    praying that the reality of our Lord’s promises and His comfort will make us strong thru these sorrows

  4. filbertz says:

    I’m part of the equation. I hope and pray each day that I go home–that it’s buses which pull away and not ambulances; my Toyota and not a hearse. There are students in my building who I have, literally, grave concerns about. Teachers, administrators, office staff, instructional aides, custodians alike–we all gamely go about our tasks silently acknowledging the shadow of fear and concern: will this be the next site? will our vulnerabilities be used against us? who will be victims/perpetrator/survivors/heroes? will my locked door be a barrier to the gunman or a student trying to escape? are their guns locked away in a safe/does he have access to the combination? will our local, rural police department be able to respond with the level of training, courage, and expertise to render aid? Most of us don’t go to work with those concerns or context. Before someone trots out the simplistic, stock, worn-out platitudes, walk some hallways in my shoes.

  5. Michael says:


    Thank you and God bless you for who you are and what you do.
    Forgive me for leaving you out of this equation…especially when you and your fellow teachers are such an important part of it.

  6. Xenia says:

    One thing we can all do is never again vote for a candidate who takes money from the NRA.

    I will repeat:

    One thing we can all do is never again vote for a candidate who takes money from the NRA.

    I realize this will severely narrow the field of people you can vote for but it’s the very least we can do.

  7. DavidM says:

    There is no one, simple solution. I am so saddened.
    But, until the political whores in DC have the courage to refuse NRA contributions and vote for stricter gun laws, little will change. That would be a beginning.

  8. Anne says:

    I have two grandsons in high school, a daughter and brothers well as several friends who are educators at public schools. With each new tragedy I am reminded that each day they return home safe is a day of bittersweet gratitude. Relief that this plague has not touched their schools and grief for the unimaginable horror those who are not so lucky are facing. That school shootings are something that this nation is #1 in the world for is inexcusable. That there are solutions but no will to apply them is unconscionable.

  9. Xenia says:

    A club for HOBBYISTS is holding the country hostage.

    I should rally my knitting circle…..

  10. Xenia says:

    Another thing that is upsetting about these massacres is the length of time the bodies of the victims are left at the scene. In Florida, parents didn’t know for sure if their child had died until the small hours of this morning, in some cases.

    For the love of God, these are people’s precious children, not crime scene evidence.

  11. Duane Arnold says:

    One parent from Connecticut suggested that any member of Congress seeking money from the NRA should first be forced to view the crime scene photos from Sandy Hook…

    These are not abstractions or statistics… they are children and teachers in a place that is supposed to be safe.

  12. descended says:

    So much here. I’m at no loss for words and angry that there is a loss for a solution. It’s mind boggling.

    All of our prayers are for these families. In Christ they are effectual. My son is 16. I made sure to text him at his Mom’s and let him know he’s still my Valentine after 16 years (I know, I know – poor kid).

    “If the most precious asset we have isn’t worth saving, neither are the rest of us.”

    That should have been clear in 1973. The leftist mind does not consider children worth defending. If they did our schools would have armed and trained teachers and abortion would not be a thing.

    “Our freedom depends on being armed.

    We can’t touch that…”

    There’s a reason these people go for the UNarmed. We shouldn’t touch that. We should utilise it.

    Remember when Israel started training and arming it’s teachers to thwart Palestinian terror attacks? Palestinian terror attacks on Israeli schools went way, way down.

    “We should have left God in the schools…”

    Isn’t He letting us reap what we’ve sown? Maybe we ought have.

    “However, after each new crop of caskets we talk about all the reasons we can do nothing about this situation… The truth as I see it is that if we don’t have the heart or will to do something about this, none of us have a prayer at all.”

    When the gov’t’s Sovereign Will finally solves the problem of our freewill that is when I expatriate.

    (Random question off the top of my head – should the person crossing illegally into the U.S. in areas with no real opportunity of police intervention be allowed to carry a sidearm for defence from criminals?)

    The fact is that the solution to curbing these shootings lies in our affinity to harden our defenses on school campuses (the best defense is a good offense), not to remove the ability of the law abiding to defend themselves. Had the Principal and admin in Sandy Hook been armed and trained, the shooter gets no further than the double doors.

  13. Anon says:


    I say vote those out who get blood money from the NRA. That’s what I’ll be doing. I don’t give a damn what political party they’re affiliated with.

  14. John 20:29 says:

    I agree with the observation above that leaving these dear sons and daughters lying dead for such an extended period is horrible – disrespectful and totally unnecessary to crime scene preservation…

    Back in the day… ’60s and 70s… the educators i knew were taking Judo, Karate and such… as they began to see this disrespect for authority

  15. John 20:29 says:

    IMV and swimming against the viewpoint tide here, it isnt the NRA that is the problem…
    we have too many activist organizations recruiting our young… too many entertainment venues glorifying the Rambo hero mentality…
    Is it really true that if you disrespect me, i have the right to punish you even if i die doing so? To kill you? Does that make me a hero?

  16. Xenia says:

    Em, does it not bother you at all that the NRA gives an enormous amount of money to politicians so they will vote against the most common sense gun laws?

    I am not talking about banning hunting rifles, as I have said.

    Em, give me one good reason why a civilian should have an assault weapon?
    (Remember, I said “good” reason.)

  17. ( |o )====::: says:

    The issue with the 2nd Amendment is that The gun lobby & enthusiasts are misinterpreting the amendment.

    Automatic & semi-automatic weapons, bump stocks, silencers and huge clips are not required for this to be continued…

    “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

    The insecure, fearful and violent men who commit these mass murders have access to superior killing devices which the rest of the civilized countries have restricted from their average citizens.

    Seen elsewhere,

    “Isn’t it strange how mental illness hardly massacres anyone in Canada, Australia and the united kingdom?”

  18. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    or it could be that the NRA represents the views of millions upon millions of Americans who have the constitutional right to lobby congress. It’s not like the NRA is some standalone entity. They are the same as a teachers union.

  19. Xenia says:

    MLD, that is exactly what I thought you were going to say.

  20. All4One says:

    I’m in agreement with John 20:29: to focus on the NRA is to miss the point completely. For that matter, arguing guns is doing the same. The simple truth is that our society has fallen apart. Once we started denigrating life at the front end with abortion, then at the back end with euthanasia, what would be left? And where are the absolutes? If you can now “self identify” as whomever/whatever because, after all, we know that everything is fluid, what is the foundation for us to stand on? Hollywood glories the very thing it rants about. It makes about as much sense as Sports Illustrated having a “MeToo” issue with models. Really? Jeremiah had it right so long ago: “The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Who can know it?”

  21. ( |o )====::: says:

    “…the NRA represents the views of millions upon millions of Americans who have the constitutional right to lobby congress”

    …except that their lobbying results in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent children, which is why there is no moral equivalency to them and a teacher’s union.

  22. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    and that’s what I thought you were going to say … some have we advanced the cause with that little jab?
    Tell me how they are different? You will never see the NRA advocate for violence — which I do not say can be said about teachers unions.
    And teachers unions fund the politicians just as handsomely.

  23. ( |o )====::: says:

    Teacher’s Unions benefit students

    The NRA benefits the murderers of innocent children & teachers

  24. John 20:29 says:

    Xenia, if there is a good reason for a civilian to own a rifle that is fed automatically by a magazine holding a large supply of amunition, i have never heard it…
    We could have a law making it illegal to own such, but my argument is that we have developed a scofflaw mentality, especially among the younger generation (that would be my grandchildren’s generation), and thus our violence problems cannot be adjudicated away
    I remember a day when it was “don’t let your children play with matches.” I’d like to be proven wrong, but today it seems to be, ” don’t let your children get caught. ”

    Adults go “postal” … terrorists lurk and plan … young people who are full of resentment and attitude need to be protected from themselves and from the evil elements that prey on them today
    Job 1, as i see it, is to get these kids out from the dangerous mindset where they’re stuck. How do we, as a society, do that?
    I’m not sure how to even address the first two, the dispairing employee and the maniacal extremist – religious or otherwise

  25. Captain Kevin says:

    Joining Fil in the hallways. ?

  26. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    ( |o )====::: – you can hate all you want but the NRA does not advocate for violence.
    Look, if you have a crook representative who only votes where the money comes from, he may be the problem.
    Bring your congressman up on charges.

  27. Xenia says:

    So you have crazy kids running around with scissors, endangering everyone.

    First, take away the scissors.

    Then work with the kids.

  28. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Xenia – I agree – the first person who saw the kid yesterday should have been armed and taken him out.

  29. John 20:29 says:

    Okay, Xenia, that is logical… take away the scissors … but a law prohibiting running with scissors wont do that… ?

    There’s nothing stopping us from taking weapons away from minors right now…
    Perhaps, if we all keep our heads and pray for common sense – we can become the villages that protect all our kids from mayhem – and the teachers who do stay in my prayers also

    There is some validity for blaming the driver, not the car for causing the accident – it’s already against the law to run a redlight or to drive into oncoming traffic… Lets find a way to head off running with scissors in the first place…… or so it seems to me….

  30. Ron says:

    If we want to look at some sort of responsible party or entity, let’s begin this time with the FBI possibly. They were as is being reported, made a aware, the school was aware, and sadly this punk was allowed to gain entrance when monitors teachers and administrators, teachers and students KNEW he had made these threats, and posted about his desire to do so. The NRA, the lib’s, Trump, the death of his mother, nor Obama, nor the Legislative Branch are most to blame, the PERSON himself, chose to plot, plan, and carry out a domestic act of terror against his peers, If we believe we can legislate to avoid another mass shooting, I would like to see one, just one specific idea, that could prevent this from occuring again. Sadly, their is another angst ridden child planning this, who is actually RIGHT NOW, being inspired by the amount of coverage these events receive. “If I can’t be famous, it is just as good as being infamous.”

  31. John 20:29 says:

    You know for starters in most places arent class size too bjg, at least on the grammar school level… ? Little “misfits” get run over in the stampede, may never recover, and that is not a teacher’s fault … IMO

    My only experience has been teaching Sunday School long years ago (why they gave me a class of 5th and 6th grade boys, i dont know) and Girl Scouts… but nothing matches watching a child, who doesnt fit in, find their niche and feel accepted and more importantly begin to bloom as God intended

  32. filbertz says:

    If the church is going to play a role in the transformation of this culture, we will have to first understand what it means to follow Christ in the midst of a non-Christian society–AND choose to primarily identify as a follower of Christ instead of a partisan in said society–AND steadfastly model the urgency of living out the gospel. There is little heat and less light coming from our houses of faith.

    Instead, we engage in hyperbole and dig our trenches deeper.

  33. John 20:29 says:

    Good, no excellent, words from filbertz to read as i end my foray into this day of angst and sorrow… AMEN (hope that doesn’t jinx comment #32. ? )… It is a question of where is the Church? Who are we following?

  34. j2theperson says:

    ***…except that their lobbying results in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent children***

    Where are you getting “hundreds of thousands” from? My Google search suggests around 1300 kids are killed each year by guns in the US. That is a troubling statistic, but it’s nowhere near hundreds of thousands.

  35. Dan from Georgia says:

    My God. Now it’s mental illness that drives people to guns and killing school children, concert goers, restaurant patrons, night clubbers, etc. It’s the meds Drudge Report has claimed on numerous occasions re: previous shootings.

    CNN claims in an OpEd piece tonight that guns are a religion.

    Guns are religion here in the south. There are more magazines on guns and militia-related crap at the local Publix here in Newnan, than there are on any other topic, save maybe sports. Maybe.

    I’m out.


  36. Muff Potter says:

    And here’s the kicker folks:

    Right now as we speak, there exists someplace in our land another nut-bag-shithouse-rat who has a history of mental illness and violence

    At some point in future he will plan his trip to a ‘gun show’ somewhere in our hinterland.
    They are little different than any weapons bazarre in Mogadishu.

    There he will be able to get his hands on the latest military style assault gear, no questions asked.

    The only question is when the next tragedy will unfold.

    The clock is ticking.

  37. descended says:


    Yeah, no way it’d be a sin nature. Must be something wrong with the machine.

  38. Steve says:

    I’m a conservative Christian, but every time this happens I’m just very glad I live in Canada. We have the same sin problems as you, but fortunately not this one to anywhere near this extent. It may behoove Americans to look past their borders to see why the rest of the developed world looks on in disbelief at the debate you have after every tragedy like this. You’ve got some things right, for sure, but the gun issue is not one of them.

  39. j2theperson says:

    ***At some point in future he will plan his trip to a ‘gun show’ somewhere in our hinterland.
    They are little different than any weapons bazarre in Mogadishu.***

    I don’t know what gun shows have to do with this. Cruz (like many mass shooters) bought his guns from retailers.

  40. Jim says:

    Sacrificial parenting might help, but then we’d all have to look in the mirror. Much easier to blame inanimate objects, organizations, and congress.

    Or blame people like me who own hammers, since blunt objects are used to murder far more people in the US than all types of rifles combined.

    Christian leftists who believe that God wants us to look at govt and call it good mock the same govt’s founding document. The answer to all of our ills is always a bigger govt that will just do something.

    Round and round we go, always forgetting that life has always and will always be filled with tragedy.

  41. Jim says:

    I’m sorry, Freudian slip. I did not mean to say leftists. I meant to say liberals. I’m genuinely sorry.

  42. descended says:

    Canada is so far down the path of restricting free speech and religion (C-16) why would the devil want to mess with the details like the right to bear arms, which I’m not sure if your constitution allows for anyway?

  43. John 20:29 says:

    hmmm… i don’t believe one can cross the border into Canada with any kind of firearm, but Canada is full of hunters and they’re not bow hunters, i don’t think… i love British Columbia and the Gulf Islands… hope that Province never get U.S.A.-ized … but i had a conversation with a couple some years back up in Powell River and they were all for forming a new nation composed of Alberta, B.C., Washington State, Idaho and Montana… seems they didn’t like their government and thought the West had its own set of values that didn’t mesh with the Eastern side of the continent 🙂
    we are definitely becoming unmeshed LOL
    the United States is a unique nation on the planet and i don’t believe we can use any other country as a model for this subject… our diversity seems to have become unmanageable and i think that it is here to stay and just won’t work under our Constitution anymore and that both frightens and saddens me… it frightens me to think of trying to ease into a new government (we are doing so)… but old Ben Franklin was betting we wouldn’t last…

    not sleepy tonight for some reason… so many things and people need our prayers as filbertz noted earlier… the Church needs to strengthen our understanding and walk… i think that’s what he said, anyway

  44. Open24Hours says:

    Absolutely Amen on your article, Michael.

  45. Josh the Baptist says:

    What about a couple of armed guards at every school?

  46. Michael says:

    Armed guards at school.
    Armed guards at church.
    Armed guards at the theatre.
    Armed guards at the mall.

    Everybody get a concealed carry permit.

    The only way to hope for safety is to be prepared to kill before being killed.

    We call this “freedom”

    We’ve lost our minds and our society will follow.

  47. Josh the Baptist says:

    I’m also fine with banning guns, but that doesn’t fix the immediate problem that there are already a lot of guns out there. A gun ban would really help a future generation more than it would help now.

    The conversation has centered around how we can help our children. Is armed guards not a reasonable solution?

  48. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    We have TSA at the airports – any of you figured out the work around for that? We live in a bad world.

  49. Michael says:


    Trey asked me this morning to talk to the police officers who are at his school and make sure they’re appropriately armed.

    It is a reasonable solution in world gone mad.

    It is treating symptoms,not the source of the problems.

  50. Josh the Baptist says:

    “It is treating symptoms,not the source of the problems.”

    Of course. As is every other physical measure we could take.

  51. Jean says:

    “We live in a bad world.”

    No, we live in a bad country in so far as it does not value the safety of its citizens.

  52. Michael says:

    Gun control would only do so much.

    Maybe the main thing it would do is make us think we’re trying to do something.

    The real issues go much deeper.

  53. JoelG says:

    If the shooter was of Middle East descent I wonder if the FBI wouldn’t paid more attention to his social media posts and previous behaviors that obviously signaled trouble.

    Just wondering….

  54. Josh the Baptist says:

    @ 52 – True.

    Gun control is a long-term battle. First, it will take years to get it passed. 2nd, it will take longer for the effects to take place, as the guns are already out there.

    A more immediate solution would be armed guards. I don’t think it would be hard to get passed, and it wouldn’t be terribly expensive.

    Why isn’t this happening?

  55. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Jean – “No, we live in a bad country in so far as it does not value the safety of its citizens.”

    and you called em a liar?? You need a new mirror.
    We spend fortunes on national defense – Federal, State and Local law enforcement agencies and we have laws on the books that would stack to the moon.

    Perhaps we need to look at modern day parenting. Perhaps we need to look at what kind of games parents let their kids play. Perhaps we need to look at what TV / Cable programing parents purposely bring into their homes? Perhaps we should look at real causes and not play the blame game of “it’s the NRAs fault.” What a bunch of bull.

  56. Jean says:

    Keep bowing MLD.

    The statistics just don’t support your nonsense. But you can tell all the murder victims’ families all about the safety our country provided them.

  57. Xenia says:

    Kids in other countries play violent video games.
    Kids in other countries watch sinful TV shows and movies.
    Kids in other countries have absentee parents.
    Kids in other countries suffer from mental illness.

    What is different about the US?

    This is where all these arguments break down. Other countries are the same as us if not worse in all these areas yet they have two things we do not have: Sane gun laws and massacre-free schools and other public venues.

  58. Michael says:

    “Perhaps we need to look at modern day parenting. Perhaps we need to look at what kind of games parents let their kids play. Perhaps we need to look at what TV / Cable programing parents purposely bring into their homes?”

    100% correct.
    100 freaking percent .

  59. Duane Arnold says:

    It’s interesting. I live in Indianapolis. In the 1860s a physician in the community, Dr. Gatling, invented a repeating carriage mounted gun. It could fire 200 rounds per minute. He invented it as a humanitarian gesture, believing that such a terrible weapon would convince people of the futility of war. Instead, for the next 150 years armies have sought weapons with increased rates of fire so as to have the advantage over the “other side”.

    Turning the country into an armed camp is clearly not the answer. It will only result in more devastating weapons with which to inflict harm on others. Regulating certain kinds of weapons may be a start, but it is not a solution. I think the real solution is deciding what kind of a society we wish to live in, and what sacrifices we are corporately willing to make to move towards that society…

  60. Josh the Baptist says:

    Instead of using it as another reason to fight with one another, why don’t you answer my common sense approach of # 54?

  61. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I was a senior in high school when Charles Whitman shot his mom, his wife and 40 people at the university of Texas, I think in 1966.
    No one looked around for someone or some entity to blame.

  62. Xenia says:

    There was an armed guard at the Florida school.

  63. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Josh – “Instead of using it as another reason to fight with one another, why don’t you answer my common sense approach of # 54?”

    If that was directed at me I thought I gave support by showing that we have TSA at the airports. No one there gives a crap about finding the root source – just protection.

  64. Michael says:


    Your solution will happen and we’ll have armed guards everywhere…and everywhere will be a potential war zone as a result.

    We have to look deeper.

  65. Josh the Baptist says:

    @ 62 – The school has a resource officer, who was not on campus at the time.

    # 2- Obviously for such a large school you would need more than 1 guard.

  66. AA says:

    Obviously a multifaceted very complex issue. Deterrence, for the any individual contemplating such an action. They should see Old Testament justice, swift, sure and public.
    No lifetime in the penal system for them!

  67. Josh the Baptist says:

    Michael, someone else has already decided our schools are war zones. I’m talking actual *Right now* solutions. We can talk deeper, and maybe kids in 100 years will thank us. But kids today need our immediate help.

  68. Jean says:


    In the current circumstances, I would support armed guards, however, they should be paid for by the gun merchants by a tax on gun sales. These guards are made necessary by the proliferation of guns which make merchants a lot of money; the cost of the guards should be borne by the source of the folks who are making money off the problem.

  69. Josh the Baptist says:

    Jean, that’s fine, but you are again talking about a drawn out political process.

    I’d be willing to pay more to protect kids.

  70. Duane Arnold says:

    “2017 saw the second-most gun-related FBI background checks on record, a report released on Wednesday showed.

    The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) conducted 25,235,215 checks last year. That’s nearly 2.3 million checks fewer than the record-breaking year of 2016 but also nearly 2.1 million checks more than 2015, the third-best year on record.

    The number of checks conducted by NICS is generally considered a leading indicator of how many gun sales have been processed in a given period of time in large part because nearly all sales—including all new gun sales—made through a federally licensed dealer must include a background check. It is not, however, a perfect representation of raw gun sales for a number of reasons. Sales between private parties on the used market are not required to go through a background check in most states. Sales of multiple guns during one transaction generally only require a single background check.”

    Does everyone feel safer?

  71. Michael says:

    To protect the campus T attends would take at least 10 armed guards and a rebuilding of physical barriers.

    Half the time we can’t pass a school bond measure for education…

  72. Josh the Baptist says:

    Assuming it is a large campus, 10 guards doesn’t sound bad.

    I think most of the schools in my area could get by with a couple, fully armed and trained, patrolling the campus, communicating with one another regularly.

    Perfect solution? Of course not. But it would help, and could be implemented immediately.

  73. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Duane, “Does everyone feel safer?”

    I don’t feel more safe or less safe. I live in a pretty gun friendly state. We are an open carry state and in my smallish town (we swell to 60,000 when the snowbirds are in town) we have 12 gun shops. (6 on the tourist driven main street.)
    A crazy guy is going to get a gun no matter what, but I’ll bet if he came into the restaurant I was dining at at least a dozen people are carrying and watching my (and everyone’s) back.

  74. Michael says:


    If they tried to implement it immediately, the money to do so has to come from somewhere.

    A large number of parents would protest.

    The city can’t afford more police on site.

    It’s not an easy solution.

  75. Josh the Baptist says:


    Give me a cheaper, more immediate solution.

    We can find money for sooo many things, but not to protect our kids?

  76. descended says:

    I practice at a range in San Diego.

    Guess how many mass shootings have occurred there?
    Or at any of them?

    The equation is simple and effective.

    Arm and train teachers and Admin to protect their students. We are, after all, in loco parentis. Any parent would do the same.

    Why pay armed guards when we are already paying union salaries/benefits to teachers and admin?

    As for losing our minds for wanting to be armed, Michael

    Jesus told his disciples as much: “Protect yourselves as you are doing the Lord’s work.” We live in times where it requires self protection to live our daily lives. Losing one’s mind is pretending one doesn’t our shouldn’t have to.

  77. descended says:

    Well, admin in California aren’t union, but but they pull down a six figure salary in most places.

  78. Michael says:

    “Jesus told his disciples as much: “Protect yourselves as you are doing the Lord’s work.”

    You just won the award for the worst exegesis of the year…in February.

  79. Josh the Baptist says:

    “Jesus told his disciples as much: “Protect yourselves as you are doing the Lord’s work.” We live in times where it requires self protection to live our daily lives. Losing one’s mind is pretending one doesn’t our shouldn’t have to.”

    I present to the jury Eisegesis, exhibit – A.

  80. Josh the Baptist says:

    Ah, Michael beat me to it.

  81. ( |o )====::: says:

    35And He said to them, “When I sent you out without money belt and bag and sandals, you did not lack anything, did you?” They said, “No, nothing.” 36And He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. 37“For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, ‘AND HE WAS NUMBERED WITH TRANSGRESSORS’; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment.” 38They said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.”

    So, yeah, if your intent is to be numbered with the transgressors, by all means, get a killing weapon.

    Context is everything, so to think it is wise to get a killing tool while being a representative of Jesus?

    Then you’re a glaring example that #JesusNeedsNewPR

  82. bob1 says:


    Like Gman said — context is everything.

    Shooting at a firing range has NOTHING to do with safety in a school setting.


  83. Josh the Baptist says:

    I’m at a loss for what verse descended is even referencing?

  84. ( |o )====::: says:

    Here you go…

  85. Josh the Baptist says:

    Being a teacher and an armed guard are two different skills that require separate types of training.

    Let the teachers teach and hire a couple of people who can focus on security.

  86. descended says:

    “I’ll end the niceties with another thing I hold to be true.
    The difference between this kid and many other kids I know is so thin as to be almost transparent…there are so many at risk today it boggles the mind and breaks the heart.”

    Maybe you should re read the words you posted a few minutes ago.

    Is the Lord’s work only reserved for the pastor/bloggers?

    Teaching these kids IS the Lord’s work.
    Protecting them IS the Lord’s work.
    Creating caring community amongst a group who would nowadays be virtually killing each other online is His will.

    Not doing any of that is not doing the job He gave us.

    Show me my eisegesis.

  87. descended says:

    So now teachers are incapable of protecting their kids

    Because they are teachers.

    Great reasoning there Josh

    Look at the drop in the rate of Palestinian terror attacks on Israeli schools even they started arming teachers.

  88. Josh the Baptist says:

    Well, now that I see the verse you were referencing, eisegesis may be too kind. It appears that you have paraphrased Jesus to the point of putting completely different words in His mouth. With quotation marks, even. That’s serious business, descended.

  89. descended says:

    Maybe there’s a deeper spiritual/gnosis meaning to

    Take a dagger with you.

  90. Josh the Baptist says:

    descended will argue with any common sense measure to protect children. Even blaspheme Christ if necessary. Got it. Moving on.

  91. ( |o )====::: says:

    This one comes under one of my many questions I’ll have for Jesus when I awaken in His Presence when I leave this mortal coil…

    “Lord, what was Your purpose in framing the disciples as ‘transgressors’ when you knew that night something was afoot and the authorities would come to arrest them?”

    I have a feeling He will remind me of the fact that there was a saying about Him that needed fulfillment.

    Then, He’ll probably chuckle and say, “Those guys couldn’t split an orange with a sword…”


  92. Josh the Baptist says:

    Also, per snopes:

    “When this photograph first went viral in 2012, Israeli Today took issue with the claim that all teachers in Israel carry guns. In fact, the Israeli web site wrote that it would be very uncommon for a teacher to be carrying a gun in the country, and surmised that the woman in the photograph was actually a security guard.”

    (My quote is an actual quote, btw)

  93. ( |o )====::: says:

    I think if we’re going to take any 20th-21st century countries as models I’ll take the Scandinavian countries, Australia, the UK & Canada as models over Israel which is practicing it’s own version of apartheid.

  94. descended says:

    Your article reference is from a heavily left leaving propaganda rag.

    Instead of taking issue with a proposed solution you call me a heretic. “What an incredible smell you’ve discovered!”

  95. descended says:

    I’ll just point out that when He told them to carry a dagger that they hadn’t been trained by the Roman army.

  96. ( |o )====::: says:

    to clarify, Scandinavian countries of Denmark, Norway, Sweden, in addition to Australia, the UK & Canada. Gotta add in Iceland as well for a dear friend & her husband in Coeur d’Alene as well. 😉

  97. Josh the Baptist says:

    If the claim is that I’ve called someone a heretic, a (real) quote should be easy to produce?

  98. Josh the Baptist says:

    @95 – No clue what you are getting at. Perhaps you can point me to a commentary that agrees with your interpretation of this verse?

  99. ( |o )====::: says:

    “a heavily left leaving propaganda rag”


    A fact-checking site, famous for debunking fake news is a “a heavily left leaving propaganda rag”?!?!?

    Again, I say, “Bwahahahaha!”

  100. bob1 says:


  101. ( |o )====::: says:

    Thanks, Michael, that’s a perfect response.

  102. Josh the Baptist says:

    Everything is a heavily left leaning propaganda rag.

  103. Michael says:


    Preston is one of my faves…

  104. filbertz says:

    arm the teachers…

    Yes, there are a few teachers who would volunteer for the duty, the training, the extra responsibility and liability. But who covers their kids when he/she trots off to engage a shooter? Lots of non-educators roll out ideas that simply don’t jibe with reality. Administrators are rarely available to engage a visitor, much less an intruder. Security guards, to be well-trained and professional, would be a hot commodity–good luck pressing hundreds of thousands into service…think ‘rent-a-cop.’

    There are many suggestions to be made, but require conversation to wade through the various assumptions and complications. This is a complex issue not solved by one-size-fits-all or simplified thinking. Lobbing insults and accusations is pointless and counter-productive.

  105. ( |o )====::: says:

    Adding him to my bookmarks!

  106. Xenia says:

    Where will the teacher’s loaded (I assume) weapon be kept during class? Surely not readily available where any kid (think kindergartener) could grab it, Locked in a gun safe? So the teacher sees a shooter with an assault weapon and s/he is expected to leave off shepherding her students, remember the combo/ find the key to the gun locker, get it open and work up the nerve to shoot a human being? How many teachers do you know who are up for this? And while the fumbling is going on to get the weapon, how many people will the shooter have killed already with his AR 15? And as soon as the teacher gets his or her weapon, s/he’s dead.

    So maybe a math teacher will hear the commotion. Maybe he’s not in charge of any students at the moment. He sneaks into his classroom, gets his gun locker open, and sneaks up on the killer and shoots him dead in the back. <— This could happen, for sure it could happen. Is this what we are counting on?

    I guess, since schools are under attack (with weapons ok'd by the government) armed defense of some kind is needed. Hire professionals, not 25 year old first grade teachers.

  107. Josh the Baptist says:

    “Security guards, to be well-trained and professional, would be a hot commodity”

    Agreed, by why not? What’s the better solution?

  108. ( |o )====::: says:

    MAGA hat worn by murderer is authentic.
    So are his posts on Instagram where he took a chameleon and he splattered the chameleon

    This was a huge FAIL by the FBI.

  109. Josh the Baptist says:

    I don’t want teachers. I want people who can patrol campus all day.

  110. descended says:

    “I present to the jury Eisegesis, exhibit – A.”

    “You just won the award for the worst exegesis of the year…in February.”

    “Show me my eisegesis…”

    “Well, now that I see the verse you were referencing, eisegesis may be too kind. It appears that you have paraphrased Jesus to the point of putting completely different words in His mouth. With quotation marks, even. That’s serious business, descended.”

    “…Even blaspheme Christ if necessary. Got it. Moving on.”

    “Again, I say, “Bwahahahaha!” ”


    I’m sorry for making a foolish point.

    Thank you Michael for your link.

    You are all very unkind.

  111. Josh the Baptist says:

    descended, I did not intend to be unkind. I am sorry for that.

    Do you really think your quote of Jesus was remotely accurate? Because that is all that I pushed back against. School security is a complicated issue, and I would love to hear other ideas.

  112. ( |o )====::: says:


    When attempting to prove a point and being shown to be glaringly off point, then doubling down with a smear on a source which refutes the point, a mature person usually says, “Wow, ok, let me reconsider that based on what you’re showing me. And thanks for taking the time to care.”

    Perhaps you could give pause, ponder, research, read your bible in context, ask hard questions of yourself and receive constructive criticism with a heart toward spiritual growth and maturity.

    I’m not being unkind. I am responding in the same way that other reasonable persons have helped me in my journey.

    Don’t pout and go away, stay engaged and pay attention.

  113. Xenia says:

    I think open campuses are part of the problem. When I was in high school we were not permitted to leave the school grounds unless we had a note from our parents or the office. We did not leave school to go to McDonald’s, for example. Put a fence around the campus and put a guard at the gate checking ID’s.

  114. Open24Hours says:

    Tertullian’s take: “While Christ was being betrayed, while he was being led up ‘as a sheep for slaughter’ – such that ‘He no more opens His mouth than a lamb under the power of the shearer’ – He could have, had He willed it, with one word had legions of angels present themselves from the heavens. Yet He did not approve the avenging sword of even one disciple. The patience of the Lord was itself wounded in the wounding of Malchus. And so, too, He cursed forever the works of the sword; and by the restoration of [Malchus’ ear], He made satisfaction to him whom He had not hurt. He did so according to patience, the mother of mercy.” – Tertullian, On Patience 3:7-8, circa 201 AD

    ‭‭In Luke, after “It is enough,” Jesus’ next words were, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.” Then He retreats to pray about His upcoming agony during which He will set our example of self-sacrifice, not self-defense. Next, He awakens His sleepy disciples and tells them a second time, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.” A moment later, Peter responds to the impending arrest with a whack of his sword.

    I think this is a literarily structured parallelism that snapshots a believer failing the temptation to commit violence. (A) “We have two swords! Yippee!” (B) Beware temptation. (B’) Again, beware temptation. (A’) Peter uses his sword.

    (C) Jesus rebukes Peter’s fall to the temptation of violence. He also challenges the arresting posse about why they thought they would ever need to bring swords to arrest a guy like Him.

  115. Josh the Baptist says:

    Xenia, I like that. Perhaps there could even be an ID card reader at doors and such like we have at some college buildings.

  116. ( |o )====::: says:

    <3 "patience, the mother of mercy"
    Thank you, Open24Hours

  117. filbertz says:

    Josh–the point is 100,000 plus security guards, properly trained, screened, hired, and deployed would take years, and therefore is not an immediate solution. I think that will likely be what the future looks like…free community access to schools will be a thing of the past. Can you imagine the drama on a daily basis because Joey’s mother forgot her photo ID and demands to bring his lunch money…?

  118. filbertz says:

    We want the best of both worlds–free access and tight security. We want the bad guys kept at bay, but I want to get in whenever I want. Are we willing to give up that much liberty? Think of the collective angst over TSA at the airports…we don’t want the imposition and hassle, yet expect security to sort out the good guys from the bad quickly and easily. Americans are incredibly naive and inflexible.

  119. filbertz says:

    ID’s aren’t the issue–most school shooters are students. Metal detectors would be required. Ammo sniffing dogs? Are we ready for cavity searches for our kids? Just asking.

  120. Jim says:

    From the group I support (not the NRA):

    February 16, 2018

    An Open Letter to The Florida Legislature c/o
    Hon. Joseph Negron and
    Hon. Richard Corcoran

    As the State of Florida mourns the loss of innocent lives on Wednesday in Broward County, I mourn too, but I am also angry. I am angry that the Florida Legislature has once again enabled an evil individual to take innocent lives because the Legislature refuses to acknowledge the fact that that evil people will not follow the laws it passes. In the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, the Legislature acts as if the laws it passes will stop criminals. Laws punish wrongdoing, they do not stop wrongdoers. Yet Florida continues to prohibit licensed law-abiding citizens from possessing the tools to protect themselves and their children from mass murder.

    Despite the repeated failure of so called “gun-free zones”, the Florida Legislature has taken no steps over the past seven years to protect our children. While the responsibility for Wednesday’s events rests solely with the actions of the evil person who committed this act, it is the Legislature that has enabled such tragedies to occur. It is the Legislature’s inaction that has made such tragedies worse.

    The Legislature has ignored the repeated requests of Florida Carry, other civil rights groups, and the law-abiding citizens of this state to give up the fallacy of “gun-free zones”. This body has left our children and their teachers defenseless. It has kowtowed to anti-freedom groups and has blocked or refused to hear common-sense legislation to protect our children and the professionals to whom we entrust our children’s care on a daily basis.

    It is a well-established fact from numerous such events that bad people with guns will only stop their carnage when confronted by an armed response. Every second until that response occurs allows the murderer to kill and maim more innocents.

    From 1987 until now, every time the Legislature has acted to restore the rights of law-abiding citizens to protect those for whom they love and care, those citizens have responsibly exercised the trust placed in them. Every time, those citizens have proven the claims of the anti-gun forces to be lies. Every time, the claims of dire consequences for returning rights to the people have proven false.

    This case was not a failure of law-abiding citizens to act responsibly. This was another failure of law enforcement to investigate and stop a deranged individual. People did SEE something, and people did SAY something, but law-enforcement failed to fully investigate and prosecute the shooter for prior crimes. Just as in Sutherland Springs, law-enforcement’s failure is being blamed on law-abiding citizens and their legal firearms. Law-abiding citizens cannot rely on law enforcement to protect them and must be given the means to protect themselves.

    The time for half-measures and incrementalism is over. It is past time to give ‘we the people’, our teachers, and the parents volunteering in schools the ability to defend themselves and stop these tragedies.

    The time to act is now. For years, many in the Legislature have touted their NRA ratings. They have claimed to be on the side of the law-abiding citizens with licenses who, for over three decades, have proven themselves more law-abiding than even the police officers who heroically responded Wednesday. Why then, should these same citizens be left defenseless while they await law enforcement’s response?

    In every state that has allowed law-abiding citizens to carry in schools, the citizens have proven equal to the challenge. None of these states have suffered what Florida suffered Wednesday. Those state have eliminated a favorite target of the deranged individuals who commit such evil.

    Florida Carry hereby calls on the Legislature to immediately:
    Pass emergency legislation to eliminate gun-free zones for law-abiding concealed carry licensees;
    Pass emergency legislation authorizing all teachers in public schools who possess a CWFL to carry their licensed, concealed firearm if they so choose, without repercussion;
    Provide immediate funding of one million dollars in grants for county school boards and sheriffs to implement pilot programs of the Faculty/Administrator Safety Training and Emergency Response (FASTER) Program in the State of Florida.
    Though the Legislature’s inaction enabled Wednesday’s events, errors of judgment can be corrected if good people are willing to admit they were wrong. It is time for those who support the Second Amendment, who recognize that armed citizens are an asset, and who truly want to protect our children, to recognize and admit that evil will not obey laws. Evil will not respect gun-free zones. Evil will not be stopped by anything other than armed response. The longer that response, the more innocent lives lost.

    I am reminded today of the teachers at Sandy Hook who died trying to shield the children they loved from evil. An unarmed person is just another victim. An armed person is a force who can stop the carnage. It is within the Legislature’s power to make sure that if it happens again, the response will be faster and fewer innocent lives will be lost.

    As a father of two public school children I cannot wait any longer. I want my children to be safe when they are not with me. I will not rest until the Florida Legislature takes action to protect my children and their friends. If it will not be done by those already in the Legislature, it will be done by those who replace them.


    Eric J. Friday
    General Counsel, Florida Carry, Inc.

  121. Duane Arnold says:

    #123 Jim

    “The July survey also found that Americans strongly support a variety of specific gun control measures, including expanded background checks (85%), laws to prevent people with mental illness from purchasing guns (79%) and creation of a federal database to track all gun sales (70%). A smaller majority (57%) support a ban on assault-style weapons.”

  122. Jim says:


    My comment obviously refuted your feelings with facts, but nice response… more feelings.

  123. Jim says:

    In fact, the article highlights the facts vs feelings state of the union.

    “The nation’s overall gun death rate has declined 31% since 1993. This total includes homicides and suicides, in addition to a smaller number of fatal police shootings, accidental shooting deaths and those of undetermined intent. For example, in 2014 there were 464 fatal police shootings, up from 333 in 2009. (Government data on fatal police shootings are also collected and reported by the FBI, though the agency acknowledges there are discrepancies between federal and local law enforcement counts.)”…

    “Despite these trends, most U.S. adults think gun crimes have increased. In our 2013 survey, more than half (56%) of Americans said the number of gun crimes had gone up compared with 20 years ago. Another 26% said the number of gun crimes had remained the same, and just 12% said gun crimes had declined.”

  124. Jim says:

    Here’s an example from this tread of feelings becoming facts in the minds of the uninformed:

    “except that their lobbying results in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent children”

    Propaganda works. The uninformed are just that, but the purveyors of propaganda are willful liars.

  125. Duane Arnold says:


    I consider myself somewhat informed. I know about guns. I’ve been around guns my entire life. I turned in my life membership in the NRA (given to me by my father) in 1977 when they abandoned their original purpose and became a lobbying organization after the so-called “Cincinnati revolution”. In my opinion, and the opinion of a majority of Americans, the NRA has been on the wrong side of the gun control issue at every turn ever since.

    Yet, I do have a question for you – how far does the second amendment extend? Class III firearms? .50 cal. sniper rifles? How about if the new laser targeting weapons are made available to the public? I don’t ask this as a hypothetical question. I really want to know your point of view. Is there any firearm that is out of bounds?

  126. Jim says:


    I’m no longer an NRA member, but my reasons differ from yours.

    I would limit the 2nd amendment to the extent that it limits itself. All of the above are permissible, and their restrictions are clear infringements.

    May I ask you what you would allow under 2A?

  127. Duane Arnold says:


    I tend to be a strict constructionalist with regard to 2A – i.e. within the context of “a well regulated militia”. As I’ve said before, the historical context of 2A was one in which the standard weapon envisioned was a smooth bore .69 cal. Musket. (You remember that during the revolution there was only a single rifle company.). I do not believe that 2A envisioned in any way the weapons now available or the firepower that a single individual could wield with a semi-automatic or Class III weapon.

  128. Jim says:

    There is no evidence of your historical context. We are very fortunate to have the author’s (and his contemporaries) commentary on the text. Some believe the English Bill of Rights (1689) had some influence on the founders. That document restricted the right to bear arms-“That the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law”. Those dumb founders just left it as an open ended right.

    The founders were certainly aware of the Belton Flintlock, as congress commissioned 100 musket conversions, which were later cancelled. I’m confident that they were knew (as are you) that superposed loads date back to the 1500’s I don’t think that you honestly underestimate the imaginations of at some some of the founders, as some were inventors and obviously genius.

    BTW, your use of Class III is pretty broad. A fully automatic rifle is a far cry from a rifle with a 15 inch barrel. A suppressor on my single round musket (for militia purposes, of course), would sure save my family’s hearing if I ever had to fire it indoors to fight off an intruder.

    So, I’m guessing your non-answer to my question is either, no guns, or a musket if I’m a militia member?

  129. Jim says:

    wow, I need to proof read before I post…pretty sloppy up there…

  130. Duane Arnold says:


    I always thought the Belton to be of more danger to the one firing it than the intended target!

    It is not a “non-answer”… I don’t believe 2A to be an unrestricted right and, I believe, that flaming liberal, Justice Scalia was of the same opinion. Restrictions can and should be made in the interest of the public good.

  131. Jim says:

    The question was, “May I ask you what you would allow under 2A?”. I thought that would be easier to answer than “what would you ban?”, but you’re of course free to answer neither or either.

  132. Jim says:

    For the record, my answer to your question was very direct. “All of the above”.

  133. Duane Arnold says:

    I think technology compels us to look at what we ban and what we allow. In my opinion all Class III weapons should be out of bounds for civilians. Semi-automatic weapons, in my opinion, should be allowed only with a special license (similar to that given for fully automatic weapons at present) with full and extensive background checks by ATF.

  134. Jim says:

    So bolt action, shotguns, and revolvers are ok?

  135. Jim says:

    I guess the obvious question is, since Americans don’t respond when asked to do a voluntary turn in, and criminals certainly won’t, how are you going to take away the guns owned by 80 million Americans who legally own firearms?

    I won’t ask why you don’t want me to have what I have, because I think it’s about feelings. Crime stats don’t support your view, as more people are murdered (by criminals) in the US by knives, hands/feet, and blunt objects than by rifles. But you knew that.

  136. Duane Arnold says:

    Yes, but licensed and registered.

  137. Duane Arnold says:

    Yes, dealing with the over 300 million guns in private hands is an issue.

    It is changing attitudes. I lived outside of Detroit when my father died. Detroit in the late 80s has a terrible crime problem. I inherited my father’s guns. I went to the police, thinking I would be a good citizen, and register the guns. They stared at me blankly… they had no registration procedure. Given the situation in Detroit, I found that unbelievable.

  138. Jim says:

    But shotguns are also used to murder more people in the US than rifles.

    Not logical.

  139. John 20:29 says:

    “Well regulated militia”… those are words to think on… Herod had a well regulated militia, Hitler had a well regulated militia, Stalin had a.well regulated militua…
    It might behoove (that is a weird word) us to think a bit on who is doing the regulating…
    At first glance, i’ll take the NRA over our politicians, Federal and local… What we really need is the courage of our convictions to regulate the commerce of weapons .. Or so it seems to me today…
    The anti gun people, the nice people, hate the slogan: “when guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns.” Sometimes truths are just that simple.

    Michael and others here noted that this recent tragedy began with letting a very troubled youngster be someone else’s problem and that this boy is one of many out there being pushed aside or rationalized away as just disruptive nuisances in need of medication
    Civilization should be a happy medium between sacrifice and self fulfillment, but doesnt the popular view teach happy as society’s goal? Not nearly the same “happy” as God desires for us…

    I dont see how the secular world is going to turn this around… further i dont think laws will solve the problem of bad actors and guns or any other weapons… the nations cited as peaceful examples of gun free societies may have more to do with the people than the lack of guns and they mat be living on borrowed time in today’s changing demograohic… A mindset of lawlessness is creeping over the planet
    Or so it seems to me today, but i pray it isnt so…

  140. Jim says:

    Well Duane, since we aren’t homicidal maniacs, and we know that they dwell among us, we won’t be changing our attitudes. You’re going to have to send the cops, although my County Sheriff will refuse.

    I would comply if swat came for my guns, but would all 80 million? That would be a no.

  141. Duane Arnold says:


    No one has said that solving this problem will be easy… and it will likely be multi-generational.


    I’ve lived in both France and the UK. They are NOT perfect societies. Far from it… Nevertheless, their attitude toward guns, in my opinion, is much more sensible than ours.

  142. Jim says:

    I just wish that someone would present a logical, fact-based argument on why I should not “be allowed” to own a semi auto rifle, or a knife, or a hammer. We all agree that criminals should not own firearms, but convince me how that remotely applies to me. Unlike the NRA, I speak for 10s of millions of Americans.

  143. John 20:29 says:

    Duane, i am sure you are correct regarding the corporate personality of each of those peoples… Thing is the United States doesnt have the common provincial background that those people may still have…
    Our nation has completely changed in the last 75 or so years… Taking away the guns that are at large here will take a gestapo-like search of every nook and cranny and, further, is like saying that you can cure chicjen pox with dermabrasion.. IMHO

  144. Jim says:


    The Australian ambassador recently said that what they did there would be impossible here. I think it might be our rejection of royalty. He cited our bloody founding and history, as he helped pass the Australian law.

  145. Duane Arnold says:

    We all give up some “rights” for the common good. I think it is part of the social contract that results in a community.

    I have a “right” to have my father’s guns that I still have shoved under the bed. Instead, I have a safe and trigger locks, so that if there is an attempted theft, others will not be endangered. For me, that’s part of the social contract we enter into to benefit the wider community. We all do this in many aspects of our lives. Why is this particular “right” so different?

  146. John 20:29 says:

    re #148
    Well, rights are an interesting topic, indeed… I have a right to drive the public streets and others should have the expectation that i won’t drive into them or their property
    However, do they have the right to not get hit by me? Do i have the right to expect others to follow the traffic laws, so we can all safely dance out there? Or are these just reasonable expectations?
    Perhaps the best approach to gun ownership today, would be a comprehensive test and proof of safe management? Then, as it is with hunters, if you are found without your license, or are careless (leaving them loaded, accessible and unattended) your guns are confiscated. Circumstances determining additional penalties. Further, like driving with a learner’s permit, there should be an age, below which you cannot own a gun or use one wuthout suoervision..
    If i ruled the world, we’d all be so much better off… LOL. ?

  147. Jim says:


    In Florida you can own a rifle at 18 and a handgun at 21. It varies by state.

  148. Jim says:


    I don’t believe in modern social contract theory, as it really just means, obey the laws politicians and bureaucrats invent, or go to jail. There are just and unjust laws. Oh, and give me 40% of your income or go to jail. There’s no contract, only forced obedience. I can live with it, but I may whine a little sometimes.

    To your point, I don’t need a contract to go to great lengths to ensure that criminals will never have access to my guns. Everyone I know locks up their guns, except for my former neighbor, who was a cop who left his AR in the trunk of his car every night. He wasn’t very approachable about the matter.

  149. John 20:29 says:

    Jim, my grandfather (the pastor) often spoke fondly of taking his 22 and going hunting east of Colorado Springs by himself as a young teenager, he was a crack shot… He missed hearing the meadowlarks too.. I doubt he could do that there today and, then, im not sure that i would trust the average teen today to do that … so much of life is contrived and phony for today’s youngsters… or so it seems to me and it seems sorrowful

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