TGIF

You may also like...

No Responses

  1. Em says:

    agree this young woman is wonderful – she had the advantage of a fairly prosperous family, evidently, and her young life has been lived in the right time and place for such an adventure – she is made of the stuff that stepped up and did the hard challenges that made this country’s pioneer’s dreams a reality – a reality that has sadly created a whole lot of shallow consumerism living, too

    only thing is… that Quantas airbus used an awful lot of gas to find her and i am wondering why such a big plane … course it’s a big ocean

  2. Em says:

    P.S. – FWIW – if anyone is beating themselves up for not adventuring on such a grand scale – it takes resources and back up to do things like this – there’s a dollar cost – had a neighbor once who was a mountain climber of some standing (National Geographic) and his wife and kids back home were scratching to stay alive

    my heroes are people like some of the folk here who’ve climbed some very challenging figurative mountains and sailed figurative seas of all kinds

  3. Michael says:

    “my heroes are people like some of the folk here who’ve climbed some very challenging figurative mountains and sailed figurative seas of all kinds”

    My point (poorly made) is that it’s the same spirit…and you’re right, her parents are loaded.

    Most of us could never do this financially, but God will give us dreams to fulfill.

  4. ( | o )====::: says:

    Money or no money, Quantus airbus gas guzzling aside, glad someone with the ability to do something good did it, a life was spared and a family comforted.

    Right on, may adventure and living out our dreams become what we’re more known for!
    Clear eyes, pure hearts, no regrets

  5. Xenia says:

    I’m not too interested in this young lady, other than hoping she survives and hoping she is a Christian so that when her hobby eventually does her in, she will have eternal life.

    I much more admire young people who manage to live pure and humble Christian lives in today’s polluted world. That takes real courage.

  6. Xenia says:

    And this idea that God has given us dreams to fulfill. I don’t buy this at all. It sounds like something the “Christian” winner of a beauty pageant says when receiving her crown.

    Most Christians who have ever lived and live now live quiet lives of trying to keep their families fed. Maybe they dream that a cloud of locusts doesn’t appear on the horizon this year and devour all the crops, maybe that’s their dream.

  7. Nonnie says:

    Oh, I am thanking God she is OK. She is alive and that is what matters. One day she can rock her grandchildren on her knee and tell them grand stories of her adventure. That fact that she may not set a record won’t matter to them one bit!

  8. ( | o )====::: says:

    in fairness to dreams to fulfill, I changed careers and am now a graphic designer. I have wanted to pursue that dream for over a decade. I have a team of people behind me who are my mentors, cheerleaders, finance people, and those who challenge me to peel away the self imposed and self defeating ways of thinking which keep me too worried about myself, rejection and the typical things which hold us back.

    If the great thinkers of the west hadn’t continued to push against the limitations of culture and personal naysayers we would still be primitive. Study western thought & culture. There is a trend toward improvement, mostly due to someone getting fed up by being told “you can’t do that” because of money, religion, lack of vision or whatever.

    Abbey is right up there with our explorers artists and dreamers who, by example, push us to be better.

  9. Em says:

    Grendal, “clear eyes, pure hearts, no regrets” – that’s beautiful …

    sounds like you’re talking about … Eternity 🙂

    Michael, my point was probably the one that was poorly made… Xenia said it better

  10. ( | o )====::: says:

    “And this idea that God has given us dreams to fulfill. I don’t buy this at all. It sounds like something the “Christian” winner of a beauty pageant says when receiving her crown.”

    What the heck’s wrong with beauty?
    What the heck’s wrong with knowing what a panel of judges will look for and honing one’s persona to achieve that goal?

    Ok, I will never win a beauty pageant, mostly not because of my dashingly good looks, but because I don’t have the poise to keep my mouth shut, but for goodness sake, can we encourage the continuation of even the silliness of beauty pagents and daft speeches about “dreams”, striving for art, song, adventure, and personal achievement, even the face of clouds of locusts on the horizon? Horizons bring us sunrises and sunsets, colour, the promise of potential and a new day, and sleep to refresh the soul in the evening.

    Why doesn’t our religion teach us to constantly look for goodness, beauty, betterment? Oh, wait, it does.

  11. Michael says:

    Grendal,

    You and I are on the same page with this one.

    “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”
    (Ephesians 2:10 ESV)

    Those works (which may begin as dreams) may be great or small in the eyes of the world, but they will all take character and courage to complete.

    The girl has inspired me…Grendal has really inspired and encouraged me with his mid life radical change of course…he’s walking in what God placed before him and it has taken a lot of courage to do so.

    I love this kind of story…obviously your mileage may vary.

  12. Em says:

    lest i be misunderstood as downplaying what this beautiful girl represents…

    she is wonderful and a role model for our young women who are out there mall crawling, looking for a facade to fool themselves and the world – would they say that Abby blew it?
    or be jealous of the spotlight and miss the reason?

    i just have a hunch that Addy might be “one of us” … dunno

  13. ( | o )====::: says:

    Em,
    “clear eyes, pure hearts, no regrets”
    – not my own, but worth repeating. Got it from a TV show (Friday Night Lights) that I’m now hooked on, a show about young people and families striving against the odds of small town geography, culture, challenges when rising up above “your place in life”, being more than what others say you are, sacrifice, community, being there for someone when it’s inconvenient, suffering, partying too much and learning character from the consequences.

    Michael,
    Thanks. You and this community are part of why I have some sanity and still retain a faith in Jesus even though I struggle with religion.

    X,
    Sorry, your dark comments set me off. I love and respect you and I just want us to find joy in the June gloom. There isn’t any sunshine breaking through the clouds this morning but the gray is misty, cool and refreshing to the touch on the face when the gentle breeze blows. There is just so very much to be thankful for, especially on the California coast near Santa Cruz and Laguna Beach.

  14. ( | o )====::: says:

    “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”
    (Ephesians 2:10 ESV)

    This verse says so much. A handcrafted workmanship, painstakingly honed by a craftsman’s hands and mind, patiently worked, one element at a time. AN artist sees beyond present reality with an unfinished work. The artist sees the rounded corner where there is still a sharp angle, a gradient wash where there is yet to be colour applied, texture soon to be created, slowly, carefully, sometimes boldly, never giving up, turning what looks like a mistake to the casual eye into just the right piece which was missing.

    Ans we are that handiwork, the word is “poema” which means a crafted poem, but also having broader meaning. That can be a plan to achieve, get funding in place to send art supplies to kids half a world away, solving a problem of loneliness, hanging in there when times get tough, deciding to show up when staying away is easier…

    ok, gotta get back to the gig bag project
    thanks for letting me vent

  15. Em says:

    Grendal,”What the heck’s wrong with knowing what a panel of judges will look for and honing one’s persona to achieve that goal…”

    plenty!

    i am so thankful that there is another thread going here now besides the week’s WW2 😉

  16. ( | o )====::: says:

    Em,
    Thing is, beauty pageants have their place in culture. It’s up to each of us to find that value, even if it’s sketch material for SNL 😉

  17. Michael says:

    “This verse says so much. A handcrafted workmanship, painstakingly honed by a craftsman’s hands and mind, patiently worked, one element at a time. An artist sees beyond present reality with an unfinished work. The artist sees the rounded corner where there is still a sharp angle, a gradient wash where there is yet to be colour applied, texture soon to be created, slowly, carefully, sometimes boldly, never giving up, turning what looks like a mistake to the casual eye into just the right piece which was missing.”

    That was worth getting up for this morning….

  18. ( | o )====::: says:

    Yeah, agree about the new thread. I just asked the catholic apologist to go on a scripture fast so we can have a little break form the wrangling about words and get to know the person

    Gotta dash

  19. Xenia says:

    I think beauty pageants are evil. Period.

  20. odenfong says:

    I’m relieved that she’s alive and well.

  21. Xenia says:

    I know a few things about beauty pageants, btw. My cousin was Miss North Carolina and my husband’s cousin was Miss Nicaragua, years ago. I have nothing good to say about beauty pageants.

  22. ( | o )====::: says:

    Michael,
    Thanks

  23. ( | o )====::: says:

    BTW, Jessica Menn, wherever you are, come by and post something. I hear rumors of great and wonderful things 😉

  24. His Kid says:

    Grendal,
    You are saying some really beautiful things this morning that are touching my heart. Thank you. I’m totally with you. I have a community blog, a place for people to share the gifts and talents (writing, art, photography, music, etc.) that God has given them called “Seeds to Sow.” I do believe that God gives us dreams, but we don’t have to wait for the ‘big thing’ to express them. We can do that every day in so many little ways. Sow some seeds–bring joy to the lives of those in your corner of the world. That’s enough to make the dream come true.
    Blessings!
    http://seeds2sow.wordpress.com/

  25. Nonnie says:

    Years ago my mom told me to not be afraid to dream great things and go for them. After my husband and I came to know Christ, we dreamed some great things and some have been wonderfully blessed, some things we never could have dreamed have happened, and others never came true…they were just dreams that eventually didn’t matter and faded away.

    The only thing that has truly mattered is faith expressing itself in love and walking with Jesus day by day. In Him, ALL dreams come true! They just may change as we continue our walk.

  26. Nonnie says:

    That should have read “All dreams that really matter, come true.”

  27. Another Voice says:

    If I can present a certain perspective in hopes that it would be understood. The main issue of course here is the girl’s age – 16.

    As a society, our laws declare that 16 years is not old enough to make mature decisions for oneself. A minor does not have the capacity to enter into a contract, and therefore can opt out of any contract like buying a car for example. A minor does not have the capacity to consent to sex, even with her/his 18 year-old boyfriend/girlfriend. A minor is not eligible to vote. The list could go on and on.

    In addition, the laws declare that because of this inability/immaturity the parents are responsible for the child’s care and overall best interests. A parent will be prosecuted when failing to do so, even to the most rebellious, out of control kid.

    She is an incredible young lady. No question.

    Put do we feel the same when we see the 16 year-old gymnast or tennis player talking about her “dreams” of Olympic or Wimbledon glory – and then learn about how her Dad (who is also her coach) has practiced her from sun-up to sun-down since she was 4. Whose dreams are they anyway?

    Yes, the two cases are different, and yes, maybe society should lower the age for adult responsibility – at least in some cases….but I don’t think we need to be too hard on those who have serious concerns about such a young lady risking her life at sea in this way, while her parents finance and cheer her on from the sidelines.

  28. Buster says:

    I have trouble imagining Jesus telling anyone to just go lead a quiet life. I worry about not being loud enough…

  29. filbertz says:

    as an educator who observes students everyday who exist in absolute boredom, can’t think an original thought, have no goals nor aspirations, and are parented by adults who have yet to grow up, I applaud this young adventurer long and loudly.

    as to the cost of pursuing one’s dreams, it surely should be counted, but sacrifice has always been a quality to be esteemed. It beats over-indulgence by a country mile.

  30. paigemom says:

    Nonnie said, “The only thing that has truly mattered is faith expressing itself in love and walking with Jesus day by day. In Him, ALL dreams come true! They just may change as we continue our walk.” Amen.

    Xenia, I am agree with you about Abby “I much more admire young people who manage to live pure and humble Christian lives in today’s polluted world. That takes real courage.”
    In this perilous world, it takes GUTS to stay single-minded, focused on the Cross at ANY age, but particularly for youths. So much warfare!

    1 Peter 5:8 8 Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

    My verse for today: 1 Chronicles “Seek the LORD and His Strength. Seek His Face continually.”

    Amen. God bless you friends. I’m off to hang out with my grand-treasures Lucy and Jack.

    PS Congratulations Jessica Menn!

  31. Michael says:

    AV,

    You have a point…I’m coming at this from a different angle.

    Trey has challenges and difficulties that are overwhelming right now.

    He also has a passion…for skateboarding.

    I am getting an ulcer from watching him…fearing that his next fall will injure him or worse.

    However…when he puts on his pads and gets on his board he’s alive, joyful, and in his element…and in his life there will be few places like that for him.

    I am learning to set aside my fears and protective instincts and instead share his joy as I also realize that the lessons he’s learning on that board are life changing…and that’s the only place he can learn them now.

    Sometimes God shows up in strange places…like skateparks and the middle of the ocean… and meets us there.

  32. filbertz says:

    further, the whole concept of ‘adolescence’ is less than 100 years old, and our culture continues to wrestle with what to do with those ‘between’ childhood and adulthood. Our society has no rights of passage that clearly defines ‘you are a man, now’ or ‘you are a woman, now.’ A simple survey of American history reveals that many/most of our heroes were engaged in life up to their armpits by the time they were fifteen. Are we less capable now or simply soft? A fascinating book written by teens to teens is “Do Hard Things” by Alex and Brett Harris.

  33. Michael says:

    filbertz,

    You are saying some important things…good stuff.

  34. Xenia says:

    Michael, I agree that kids need to get out of the house and boys especially need to do dangerous stuff. I have three sons and I had to close my eyes plenty of times to let them do the things that would help grow them into brave men.

  35. Michael says:

    Xenia,

    I was hoping that he would have a passion for books…and safe sports.

    It didn’t work out… 😉

  36. Another Voice says:

    Michael – I amen you all the way with Trey (and I’m really not rebuking young Abby’s parents either)

    C.S. Lewis wrote some great stuff about the doting mother who “loved” her kid so much that she suffocates him. I have met people who grew up like that and it isn’t pretty.

    I want and have encouraged my kids to ‘go for it’ – even at the risk of physical injury. At the same time, as with Trey, it must be THEIR pasion and not mine own.

  37. Em says:

    having once been a 16 year old girl with a somewhat adventurous spirit i thin i can say that Addy didn’t sacrifice one thing (course she woulda blown it all, had she died down there)
    and as a parent of 3 beautiful, no longer teen-age, daughters with adventuresome spirits, i can say that i would far rather have lost one of them risking their life challenging the ocean than to lose one to “sex, drugs and rock n roll” – for want of a better term

    then again i never would have given them the ok to do what Addy did – i suspect that she had Grendals or Michaels for parents 🙂

  38. Buster says:

    Just don’t do any youtube searches for “skateboard fail.”

  39. Em says:

    correction: make that “Abby” not Addy

  40. Another Voice says:

    filbertz is all over it in #33. That is the key issue. This girl likely is more mature at 16 than some of my congregation at 30.

    Mary likely was pregnant with the Savior at Mary’s age…ponder that responsibility for a moment.

  41. Another Voice says:

    Mary’s age obviously should be Abby’s age

  42. filbertz says:

    can I simply say, as an engaged and vested observer, that I fear most for America’s youth for they have access to more information than ever before yet are dumbfounded on what to do with it. So they opt for the easiest choice…entertainment. Abby, the sailor, will be so profoundly ahead of her peers it isn’t funny. When we all retire, the workforce who will be driving this country is dropping out of high school at an alarming rate, taking twice as long to finish a four year degree than what is expected, getting married later in life, racking up more debt, attending church less, voting less, reading less…shall I go on? Who taught them this?

  43. Michael says:

    Buster,

    Don’t have to…we had a young man die here yesterday from a skateboard accident.

    What makes me rage is when I see that most of the kids at the park have neither the right equipment, nor any parental supervision while there.

  44. paigemom says:

    Fil and Michael. Word. “sometimes God shows up at skate parks”…. amen.

    I totally think that many of today’s disciples are overly ‘churchified’ as if church as we know it is the only place to know God, serve God and grow in faith. This is very small minded, creating weak and small minded followers of Christ, who flail and fail.

    . I used to have the typical ‘focus on the family’ type ‘goal’ for my kids, go to church, grow up in church, serve in the church, go into ministry. My world was too small, because the God I had created was too small. I was forced to learn to open my eyes because all four of my offspring bailed on mom’s teensy perspective of life and discipleship.

    I have actually congratulated my three sons, who are not walking by the Spirit at the moment, for recognizing and discarding the churchified b.s. they observed and were being pressured into conforming to. By God’s Spirit, they will, in His time for His Glory, become the men of God that He designed them to be.

    Forgot the address of my verse of the day 1 Chronicles 16:11

  45. Pineapple Head says:

    By the time she was 17, my daughter had traveled to Panama, the Czech Republic and New Orleans on mission ventures…without us. Although her mom and I worried about her safety, we were more excited about her spirit of adventure. Those experiences helped shape the person she is today.

  46. Em says:

    filbertz, did anyone have to ‘teach’ them or are they just going with the flow?

  47. Rob Murphy says:

    As a parent, I’m surprised by our change in our biology . . . I did not know that I could live with my heart in my throat, on my sleeve, broken and soaring. And I did not know that all these things would serve to expand my heart.
    Pretty amazing being a parent. I’m with Michael on this one, there is only little in life compared to the extremes of really living life – which sounds like a thesis turned in on itself, but is not jabberwocky.

  48. Dave Rolph says:

    I share AV’s concerns. Read Andre Agassi’s book to see that side of things.

    But my heart is with Michael and Grendal. We have such an obsession with safety that we destroy the truly abundant life. Big Brother doesn’t even let kids ride in the back of a pickup any more. We don’t let ourselves enjoy truly tasty food and drink, but instead fool ourselves into thinking we prefer vegetables. Hedonism isn’t a satisfying life (sorry Piper) but we are created to walk an edge. As my favorite prophet said, “He not busy being born is busy dying.” Goliaths will never be taken down by over-protected, scared wimps. Better to have lived and died than never to have lived at all.

  49. centorian says:

    “Big Brother doesn’t even let kids ride in the back of a pickup any more. ”

    lol…. That was how I got back and forth to the beach many times was hitchhiking and being picked up by someone with a truck… 8)

  50. Michael says:

    “I did not know that I could live with my heart in my throat, on my sleeve, broken and soaring.”

    Amen…and everyday. 🙂

  51. Another Voice says:

    Dave Rolph,

    I lived it myself growing up – and certainly was surrounded by a lot of likeminded parents living vicariously through their children.

    Never got as famous as Agassi though 🙂

    A final note – I trust everyone sees its not an either/or thing. Frankly, sailing solo at 16 is pretty impressive and maturing for any distance. All of the “good” we are talking about that is gained from such attempts can be gained at lesser risk.

    I’m sure there is a certain ramp height that Michael would tell Trey “No” you can’t attempt THAT one. (Is there Michael?)

    Our culture and news cycle will not notice a 16 year old that sails from Hawaii to California solo. If it isn’t worldwide, it isn’t newsworthy.

    We are talking as Christian parents wanting our kids to blossom – we are not talking as publicity whores or forcing our kids to live our dreams – which sadly is often the case today.

    As long as that is not the case with Abby’s parents, then Praise God.

  52. London says:

    His Kid-
    cool blog. I really like the music. Do you guys play around town much?

  53. Another Voice says:

    This is an interesting quote from her blog, where I note she started sailing at 6 months. LOL I think she might have had a little help back then. Clearly, sailing is in her blood and the blood of this family. When such is the case, a lot of what we landlubbers call ‘danger’ is really quite controllable to an expert – no different than guns, airplane flying and the like.

    Here is the quote:

    “I had begun to think that dreams are meant to be no more than dreams and that in reality dreams don’t come true. Then my brother (Zac) left on his trip. It was amazing to see all the support that he got from around the world and to see how everyone worked together to help make his dream reality. Watching him do this really made me believe that I could too.”

  54. Michael says:

    “I’m sure there is a certain ramp height that Michael would tell Trey “No” you can’t attempt THAT one. (Is there Michael?)”

    This has come up… 🙂

    It became a blessing…the deal is that he does nothing until he’s comfortable that he has the skills to do it.

    He can attempt nothing because he’s dared to or because he wants to impress somebody.

    By the same token, if he says he can do something, I have to let him try.

    As he has grown in skill, he has grown in wisdom and he has embraced our agreement…and so have I.

    He is now one, deep, steep, bowl away from mastering the park in it’s entirety.

    This for a kid who the doctors said would have great difficulties with co-ordination and balance and would never be able to play any sport at all.

  55. ( | o )====::: says:

    “Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we told you”

    ORLY?
    …from a guy who was spending his time starting riots in temples and being chased by religious authorities and upsetting pretty much everyone while he went his merry way?

    And how did this square with Jesus who went about pushing against the the worst His culture had to offer?

    A quote like that offered out of context is fine when someone says, “here’s a verse that means a lot to me, that I choose to live by”, but when thrown around loosely to smack down the spirit of adventure, it’s just a praise smashing buzz kill, especially compared to how brother Paul actually spent his time.

    The big picture needs to be the story of faith and adventure that we find throughout all of our written history.

  56. Another Voice says:

    Michael – understand I don’t say this just to blow smoke up your backside since you are the blog host….

    But that is some exceptional parenting and an example I can learn from and apply with my family. Thanks for sharing.

  57. Michael says:

    AV,

    Thank you…and you do understand that I left out the parts about throwing up from stressing out about him and wrestling like mad with my own fears. 🙂

  58. filbertz says:

    Em,
    I think there is a degree to where kids are going with the flow, but there is too much evidence of lowered expectations, lack of adult mentoring, and the scourge of convenience to simply hand it all off as ‘their’ problem. My students who accomplish the most generally have great examples or a very strong will to succeed.

  59. London says:

    Michael, your stories of Trey finding his passion in skateboarding and finding new freedoms there reminds me of a story I saw recently about a surfer kid with Austim. He has difficulties on land with social skills and expressing himself…but on the water, he’s amazingly gifted and a champion surfer.
    He’s doing well, has a girlfriend that cares about him, does interviews from time to time etc.

    They have to find their own way. Good for you guys for figuring out boundries where you’re both (relatively) comfortable with his new skills.

  60. Em says:

    speaking of sports and risk taking… where do the men who post here stand on organized team sports for little kids? most of them put on their little uniforms and stand around and watch whether on the field or the sidelines, it seems to me? ? ?

    Trey, on the other hand, is testing himself and learning – both his body and his little psyche benefit IMO

  61. Em says:

    filbertz,”… but there is too much evidence of lowered expectations, lack of adult mentoring, and the scourge of convenience to simply hand it all off as ‘their’ problem.” isn’t that going with the flow?

  62. Michael says:

    London,

    I think I read that…
    We all have to find our own way…we’re all different, all ‘handicapped”…our gift to each other is to love each other while we’re searching together.

  63. jlo says:

    When my niece played organized sports she was fully engaged weather it was her turn on the field or being on the side lines cheering on her team mates.

    When my nephew played organized sports he was more interested in talking with his team mates, weather he was on the field or the side lines. I remember one time watching him “play” soccer; he ran the field only so he could talk to the team mate next to him. He still plays sports, but is also on the debate team.

  64. London says:

    michael-
    this is the kid and the trailer for the movie they made about him

  65. His Kid says:

    London,
    Thanks–glad you liked it. Yes, we do play around town a lot. We’re currently on a bit of a break since two members of the band (my son and daughter-in-law) just became parents. We’re getting geared up to go again this fall, though.

  66. Erunner says:

    I recall when we would go watch our son surf as he was gaining experience. He would paddle out pretty far and we’d watch him try and catch the waves. At some point though we would lose track of him among all the other surfers. I wouldn’t be comfortable until he came walking onto the sand.

    I would never let my 16 year old attempt what this young girl is doing. If my child died during such an endeavor I don’t know that I would ever be able to live with myself from that time on. I would feel greatly responsible for contributing to such an early and unnecessary death.

    There’s plenty of time after 16 years of age to live life on the edge to the point your life is at risk. Seems to me there are a lot of alternatives.

  67. Mrs. TDoS says:

    We have a friend whose grand daughter was given months to live, due to cancer. We received an email from her yesterday and found out she has now been given weeks. She is a lovely 10 year old girl. Wont you please pray, pray, pray, pray, pray with us for her? She is in good spirits, unbelievably, but please pray for peace and comfort! I can not imagine the pain of this situation.

    Thanks all of you!

  68. jlo says:

    Mrs TDoS, praying

  69. Captain Kevin says:

    Haven’t read the first 70 comments yet, but my first thought was that she’s more of a captain than I’ll ever be. So AMEN to your thoughts on this Michael.

    “…but God will give us dreams to fulfill.”

    You been secretly watching Joel Osteen again? 😉

  70. Captain Kevin says:

    “…striving for art, song, adventure, and personal achievement, even the face of clouds of locusts on the horizon? Horizons bring us sunrises and sunsets, colour, the promise of potential and a new day, and sleep to refresh the soul in the evening.

    Why doesn’t our religion teach us to constantly look for goodness, beauty, betterment? Oh, wait, it does.”

    Damn, Grendal, that was good!

  71. Captain Kevin says:

    Filbertz said: “…as an educator who observes students everyday who exist in absolute boredom, can’t think an original thought, have no goals nor aspirations, and are parented by adults who have yet to grow up, I applaud this young adventurer long and loudly.”

    Phil,
    First, amen, and second, I don’t recall you ever observing the kids in my class!

  72. Em says:

    CK, gotta say – how to put this, cuz i’m not disagreeing with you…, but it is what our religion is teaching us that blurs our view of Him, His goodness, beauty, joy…

  73. Captain Kevin says:

    Em,
    True dat. Maybe we should be more concerned with what Jesus wants to teach us than our religion, eh?

  74. Luth says:

    Hey, c’mon here —

    Some people desire to lead a quiet life. Others like beauty and art and creativity.

    Different strokes for different folks!

  75. Luth says:

    Filb,

    You’ve described pretty well the deficiencies of kids today.

    But any ideas on what works? Can you ID success factors of successful kids and families and situations?

  76. Captain Kevin says:

    Mrs. TDos,
    Yikes…praying! Please, Lord have mercy!

  77. Linnea says:

    Mrs. TDoS… praying for that 10 year old and her family…

  78. Captain Kevin says:

    Luth,
    #1 in my book is parents that are “with-it.” I can pick out on the first day of school which kids in my class have parents that are involved or not.

  79. Em says:

    Lut, why can’t one lead a quiet life and still love beauty art and creativity? maybe, i didn’t get your point?

    praying for that little girl so close to eternity and her family

  80. Linnea says:

    My kids have have had a snake collection, in the house I might add, have bred guinea pigs, made bows and arrows and shot things with them, skateboarded, mountain biked, made potato guns, built and launched rockets, plowed fields with tractors, rounded up and branded cattle, bull-doggin’ the strays, backpacked in the wilderness and skied/snow-boarded down double black diamond runs without knowing what they were doing. What do you do?

    I can understand throwing up and nervousness, but their adventures have enriched my prayer life 😉

  81. Buster says:

    “These signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.” (Mk 16:17-18)

    Not much quiet life there…

  82. Luth says:

    CK,

    So you mean with it in the sense that they’re involved with their kids? Or that they’re cool?
    (I think I know which one you mean, but…)

    If I see one more middle-aged dad with a backward cap…

    🙂

  83. Xenia says:

    I give up. You folks say you will only believe something if you read it in the Bible and I show you a Bible verse and you still don’t believe it.

  84. SHW says:

    Buster,

    I have trouble imagining Jesus telling anyone to just go lead a quiet life. I worry about not being loud enough…

    ************

    Trust me, you are loud enough! 🙂

  85. SHW says:

    Xenia,

    You lasted longer than I did before you gave up. Congrats! 🙂

  86. Sister Christian says:

    Mrs TDOS,

    praying with you for that little 10 yr old girl.
    Gods touch, peace, grace and great mercy.

  87. Buster says:

    SHW,
    LOL!

  88. Sister Christian says:

    Xenia, Im with you in regards to the beauty pageants…
    Just read a line somewhere that its all about buisiness, and getting ratings. etc
    Grendal, is it true beauty when these girls are tweaked and morphed and manipulated and introduced to the world in their undergarments? Thats not beauty… or do you think so?

  89. Sister Christian says:

    M.B.

    A second and hearty amen with you …here too!!

    in our seeking to lead a quiet and productive life,
    beauty and creativity are abundant within…
    and adventure certainly does come our way in the process.
    and there are days like the apostle paul, or even Jesus,
    where there is commotion and or raucous,
    but its not something they nor we are to seek out

  90. Xenia says:

    Holly, yep. I get bugged when, for example, on the Olympics they call a 15 year old gymnast or swimmer (or whatever) a heroine or hero. What’s so heroic about practicing your sport so much that you become an expert at it and are better than all the rest, who might have spent their time following more worthwhile pursuits than indulging their hobby? To me, a hero is someone who shows bravery on behalf of someone else. Becoming an expert at one’s hobby is not heroic, unless you want to call me a heroic knitter.

  91. SHW says:

    I was in a county pageant when I was in my teens (representing a 4-H club). We did not have a swimsuit competition or else I would not have agreed to represent my club! We had a poem recitation competition and that was bad enough. Pageants: What a waste of time!

  92. Sister Christian says:

    In our seeking to lead a quiet and productive life
    forgot the best part…
    walking with Christ and seeking first His kingdom
    walking in those things that Hes planned from the foundations of the world for us to walk in
    though it may be quiet… Its usually never boring.

  93. Sister Christian says:

    Great to hear of Treys artful work of mastering the skateboarding
    better still that he also has responsible supervision… 😀

  94. SHW says:

    Xenia,

    I heartily agree. Sports are highly overrated and the salaries for pro sports are obscene.

  95. SHW says:

    I’m trying to figure out how to make the :blush: sign, so here goes.

  96. SHW says:

    Well, obviously it did not work. How do you make a blush sign?

  97. centorian says:

    I agree that sports are highly overated. Way back when the baseball players went on strike, I found that I could live quite nicely with any professional sports in my life…. But if they can get that kind of money to play a game, good for them…… in many respects we created the monster….

  98. SHW says:

    MB,

    When I was in Moscow we got detained by the Russian police (talk about scary!!!!!!!!!) for hosting an unauthorized Gospel event (because it’s near impossible to get anything “authorized” there unless sanctioned by the Russian Orthodox Church).

    *********

    A friend of mine touched a gold object in a museum over there and got arrested. She said she was never so scared in her whole life. Luckily, she was released in time to play in her bowling tournament. 🙂

  99. ( | o )====::: says:

    “And this idea that God has given us dreams to fulfill. I don’t buy this at all. It sounds like something the “Christian” winner of a beauty pageant says when receiving her crown.”

    “Xenia, Im with you in regards to the beauty pageants…
    Just read a line somewhere that its all about buisiness, and getting ratings. etc
    Grendal, is it true beauty when these girls are tweaked and morphed and manipulated and introduced to the world in their undergarments? Thats not beauty… or do you think so?”

    Oh, puhleeeeze. This is about achieving & dreaming, not about beauty pageants.

    Talk about an exercise in missing the point, I don’t give a hoot about beauty pageants but I have a problem with spilling demotivational molasses all over everyone by
    demeaning the pursuit of dreams as if God’s anointed standard is the out of context verse cited earlier, a verse that Paul himself didn’t practice.

    My comments are about how we are indeed heroes for having goals, persevering, achieving. Mocking those who have dreams as being equivalent to lame prattling at a beauty pageant is just a slap in the face to anyone who sets out to have an adventure, have goals, and achieve them. Then to offer a bible verse out of context to keep those same people down is sad.

    I really hate it when anyone who doesn’t have the courage to paint with a color other than off-white criticizes bold splashes of colour.

    it’s cool to have settled into a lifestyle that suits a person, being all quiet and serene, but to try to apply a verse out of context as if it’s a proof text from the Holy Spirit speaking thru Paul and admonishing us all, everywhere, all throughout history, and for all time to not have goals which rise above the mundane and typical is irritating to any of us who dare to ask “why not”.

  100. SHW says:

    Now, that is funny! 🙂

    Cultural differences.

    We went to Japan and I went into a women’s restroom and no toilet paper. You have to carry your own over there. Also, they have floor toilets. Not easy to use. Now, I know why they used to wear kimonos…Plus, my food had eyes in it and looked back at me.

  101. SHW says:

    ( | o )====:::
    I really hate it when anyone who doesn’t have the courage to paint with a color other than off-white criticizes bold splashes of colour.

    ***********

    Amen! Also, the other way around. Different strokes for different folks.

  102. Xenia says:

    It also takes courage to be content to be off-white.

  103. Xenia says:

    Cultural differences for sure, even among different churches in America. Dave was happy that his pastor’s conference featured a drum solo. This would not have gone over well at a conference of Orthodox clerics.

    There’s a list (Hopko’s 55, we call it) that is currently popular in the Orthodox world. Fr. Thomas Hopko has made a list of 55 maxims (NOT RULES!) that are helpful for living the Orthodox Christian life. To show you some cultural differences between the EO world and some other worlds, here’s a sampling:

    9. Spend some time in silence every day.

    10. Do acts of mercy in secret.

    18. Be an ordinary person.

    23. Live a day, and a part of a day, at a time.

    25. Be faithful in little things.

    26. Do your work, and then forget it.

    31. Be simple, hidden, quiet and small.

    32. Never bring attention to yourself.

    35. Think and talk about things no more than necessary.

    36. Speak simply, clearly, firmly and directly.

    41. Don’t seek or expect praise or pity from anyone.

    43. Don’t try to convince anyone of anything.

    ——————–

    You can see that this is just a few of the 55. The rest of them are about remembering God, praying, reading scripture, etc. But you see the kind of thing that is valued in the Orthodox culture. “Be simple, hidden, quiet and small.” That’s an ideal that we cherish but is probably not considered terribly virtuous by others. Even the great works of Orthodox art are usually not signed.

    So yes, pass me another bucket of off-white paint, please.

    51. Have no expectations except to be fiercely tempted to your last breath.

  104. SHW says:

    “A Christmas Story,” a classic. I just read a novel with a person wanting a lamp like the one in that movie. What a hideous lamp. 🙂

  105. SHW says:

    Xenia,

    51. Have no expectations except to be fiercely tempted to your last breath.

    ****
    I believe this!

  106. Michael says:

    “The point is, are we dreaming a dream to fulfill ourselves and to call attention to OUR achievements? Or to fulfill what GOD’s purpose is for our lives?”

    I didn’t know the two were mutually exclusive…

    People like me and Grendal will never fit in to the “holy mold”.

    If I ever do… shoot me, cause I already died.

  107. Dusty says:

    what is going on? Why so many angry posts?

  108. Dusty says:

    ( | o )====:::

    don’t make the assumption that off-white = lack of courage and a rainbow of color=courage….some like to hide behind color.

  109. Michael says:

    I don’t think anybody’s angry…just people with very different perceptions about things.

    Just another day on the PP…

  110. Dusty says:

    another day? big brother, if I hear you talking about shooting yourself or dying….will just don’t.

  111. Dusty says:

    God did not make us look alike…why should it be necessary that we all think alike or paint with the same colors?

  112. Dusty says:

    oh….now I’m talking to myself…did I mess up your discussion? 😳 sorry.

  113. Dusty says:

    so i think i will go do some quilting now….

  114. Nomansapologist says:

    Dusters! That is all of us, making a beautiful bouquet!
    I love this place…
    Michael makes a statement, and the the thread develops and we find the human crux of the matter.
    We are all so different….
    My favorite thing about us, really.
    Grendal has found liberty in expression and creation so he pleads for us to do the same, because he loves us.
    Xenia has found liberty in holiness and simplicity, so she pleads for us to do the same, because she loves us.
    It is love that draws us here, and that pleases Christ, which pleases me.

  115. Nomansapologist says:

    Oh man! Soooo many typos! Sorry :mrgreen:

  116. Dusty says:

    Angel voice, typos? where? 😉

  117. Scott says:

    “sinplicity”, I gotta coin that one 🙂

  118. Nomansapologist says:

    Dusteroooo!!!!
    I am typing like a maniac! 🙂
    Oh yeah, and I heart you.

  119. Xenia says:

    Good post, Norman!

  120. Nomansapologist says:

    Uncle scoot…
    Awful!
    Dangit, lightning fingers!

  121. Dusty says:

    speaking of quilting….oh man…I have seen some very beautiful quilts that were done in whites, off-whites, creams, beiges, with satin, lace, ribbon….wow…so very ‘colorful’ and awe inspiring ART… 😛 🙂

    and if you have ever done hand quilting…you know working with white takes a lot of courage….the risk of pricking your fingers and getting blood all over….not camouflaging your mistakes behind bold color….

    anyway…..LOTS of art have been done in white or off white…I don’t understand why anyone, much less an artist would argue that off-white can’t be an expression – and a courageous one at that.

    ok….so now I am really going to go do some quilting….c’ya

  122. Luth says:

    Xenia,

    I like your list.

    I like what Garrison Keillor of Prairie Home Companion says every day at the end of his
    “Writer’s Almanac” reading:

    “Be well, do good work, and keep in touch.”

  123. Xenia says:

    Living or existing?

    That’s Michael’s Tweet about this thread.

    I am sorry to say that I am a little offended by this.

  124. Nomansapologist says:

    Xenia, don’t be..,
    You are living in your definition of freedom, and Michael is being challenged in his. No right, no wrong, only personal growth.
    Application is so personal.
    This story actually didn’t speak at all to my personal liberty, but rather to my faith as a parent.

  125. Xenia says:

    Norman, you always see the best in everyone.

    It just irks me that Michael thinks there’s a group of people who are just …. existing.

  126. Michael says:

    The harshest critics I’ve read of this girl have come from people who I know…and who I know rarely do anything but comment nastily on what other people are attempting to do.

    It wasn’t written to create offense…but I’m frankly offended by all the venom directed at people who try to do extraordinary things.

    Each of us are accountable for our own lives and actions…I’m not sure what the point is in judging others efforts..

    I have been a champion of the mundane and the anonymous…I see no issue with celebrating the rest as well.

  127. Nomansapologist says:

    Maybe he is speaking against his own bent toward simply existing….
    Maybe there are many out there who needed this word….
    Those who are in bondage to the mundaneness of legalism and religion who need to be awakened to the passion that Christ saught to bring into our lives.
    I do love your brain Xenia, and have so much love and respect for you.

  128. Nomansapologist says:

    Michael,
    Apparently after all of these years ministering with eachother, we now share the same brain…
    We even chose the same terminology!

  129. Michael says:

    Nomans,

    LOL! 🙂

  130. Buster says:

    Those are a lot like my own maxims!

    9. Spend some time shouting in funny voices or singing real loud every day.

    10. Refrain from doing anything that would result in civil litigation or criminal prosecution.

    18. Be an extraordinary person.

    23. Fit as much as you can in today, because you might be old tomorrow.

    25. Keep little things organized, so you don’t waste time when you’re working on big things.

    26. Forget work, go do some fun stuff.

    31. Be complex, outgoing, loud and big. Nothing exciting ever happens to librarians.

    32. Never bring attention to the stain on your pants.

    35. Write down the things that pop in your head, because those ideas might be worth millions!

    36. Speak like Howie Mandel or John Wayne, depending on your audience.

    41. Don’t seek or value the opinions of idiots.

    43. Don’t try to convince anyone to join your investment club if they know your real name or address.

  131. Buster says:

    BTW, my #41 isn’t directed at anyone here — I really do say that one all the time (ask Dusty)!

  132. Michael says:

    Xenia,

    You have a passion for your faith and for life.

    You challenged yourself and your own faith and made a radical life giving step.

    That’s not just existing…

    It’s also not representative of a lot of people I know…

  133. Michael says:

    Right now I wish I had an excellent audio engineer to do finish this damn podcast…

  134. Dusty says:

    Xenia, Michael loves you and thinks you are a wonderful sister. He does not think of you as merely existing.

  135. Dusty says:

    he does say #41 all the time…he also speaks in fun voices.

  136. Dusty says:

    Angel voice, I heart you too.

  137. Xenia says:

    Alright, I just had a nice dinner and I’m all calmed down and I’m not offended anymore.

    Please forgive me.

  138. brian says:

    Funny thing about encouragement, I wont listen to it. Sometimes I even leave the room when people go on about what an “angle” bla bla about me. Now I will listen intently and for hours about what a piece of human crap I am, I want to hear what I do wrong, what they want and then change. The rest of it I dont want, care for our allow myself to hear. I guess why I am like that is because I am always afraid that I will fall into the sin of pride or spiritual whoredom (sp). It was so drilled into our heads that we always have some evil vile reason lurking around the corner for everything we do, think, act etc. God is looking and sees all of it and on judgement day you will pay for every single evil vile degenerate motive you have ever committed. It really does not offer much peace.

  139. Buster says:

    And BTW, Deadmanwalking makes the best pot roast! (Not counting my grandmother’s, of course.)

  140. Nomansapologist says:

    Brian…
    I have the same struggles.

  141. Another Voice says:

    I think this thread has inspired me to go read some books.

    1) Freedom of Simplicity by Foster (not as famous as Celebration of Discipline but still pretty good if I recall correctly)

    Then I think maybe a good Hudson Taylor, William Carey or Jim Elliott biography.

    That ought to cover both ends of the spectrum! 🙂

  142. Captain Kevin says:

    On a totally unrelated topic, those of you who liked early Christian rock will appreciate this: http://www.sweetcomfort.com/home.html

  143. Another Voice says:

    A word about athletics. Let us not forget that the Bible actually uses the athlete as an object lesson for us. There is much we can learn about discipline, dedication, hard work and the like from the superior athlete. Not just my opinion. God’s word says so.

    I do think athletes can also be heros to the world at large. Jesse Owens certainly was. To many people Lance Armstrong is as well (though his rabid atheism is hard to take)

    I think this young woman was a hero. What about you?

  144. BrianD says:

    man, everybody gets old, don’t they?

  145. BrianD says:

    yeah, she was a hero.

  146. BrianD says:

    Yet, I don’t feel old.

    But…when I see a picture somewhere of Skillet, or the Crabb Family, or Chris Tomlin doing signings somewhere…and all those guys have wrinkles and have pictures of their grandkids on their Facebook pages…I’ll know I’m old.

  147. Na'amah says:

    okay…i try to just lurk here… especially after the ‘it was literally all GREEK to me post!’ eegads did i learn a lot…and i am still digesting

    please consider the variety of cultures that exists in our nation…beauty pagents are one of the limited venues young girls in the South may excel, bathing suit competitions are rarely included. One of my daughters obtained over 25k in scholarships through this process and shared her faith w many, especially the sponsers/judges/photographers during the extensive interview phases.

    living a dream… we all need to have a dream that is personally connected to how our Father has formed and created each of us individually, uniquely…w/out it we become the ‘cookiecutter’ robots non believers view/or think us to be…

    if anything, my surrender to our Heavenly Father actually increased who He intended/intends me to be… He honored and increased my gifts and talents i surrendeded to Him… i treat/teach so many who think/believe being in His service requires them to become inauthentic and deny those things that interest and inspire them

    we are created in His image i do not think nor believe those things that bring us joy in our physical state (of course those things that are not sinful) are to be removed from our lives i only skimmed the above comments but was left w an impression by some commentors that only what was ‘church approved’ or listed in the Bible was approved…

    i admit i may be incorrect in such an assessment.
    🙂

  148. London says:

    Wow, what an odd little thread. 🙂

  149. Sister Christian says:

    “Oh, puhleeeeze. This is about achieving & dreaming, not about beauty pageants.

    Talk about an exercise in missing the point, I don’t give a hoot about beauty pageants but I have a problem with spilling demotivational molasses all over everyone by
    demeaning the pursuit of dreams as if God’s anointed standard is the out of context verse cited earlier, a verse that Paul himself didn’t practice.

    My comments are about how we are indeed heroes for having goals, persevering, achieving. Mocking those who have dreams as being equivalent to lame prattling at a beauty pageant is just a slap in the face to anyone who sets out to have an adventure, have goals, and achieve them. Then to offer a bible verse out of context to keep those same people down is sad.

    I really hate it when anyone who doesn’t have the courage to paint with a color other than off-white criticizes bold splashes of colour.

    it’s cool to have settled into a lifestyle that suits a person, being all quiet and serene, but to try to apply a verse out of context as if it’s a proof text from the Holy Spirit speaking thru Paul and admonishing us all, everywhere, all throughout history, and for all time to not have goals which rise above the mundane and typical is irritating to any of us who dare to ask “why not”.”

    Grendal,
    why do you have a tendency to do that to me?
    You “mentioned” about beauty pagents, and I expressed a little of my concern about it,
    and you blast me as a failure in missing the point…
    sorry I dont follow your rules,,
    But then you applaud others who dont follow traditional rules,,,

    so, Im bold in using color to express what i feel is the exploitation of women,
    (and presently I speak specifically of the most recent USA pageant where they were presented via the web {on their official site} in their lingerie, sitting in very suggestive positions, on hotel beds and couches..)

    I asked you a question and it seems to me you belittled my response.
    which has been a pattern of yours towards me over the past few years.
    and it seems you have blended my response with a conflict you had with Xenia in scripture application, which seems to me she has used most appropriately…
    so we are keeping people down,,,if even indirectly?
    But you are not ? huh?

    So do you now claim to be the outstanding authority on what defines bold expressions of color and who is simply white and offensive, raining on everyone flair and ambition?

    Thanks for the brotherly love Grendal

  150. Sister Christian says:

    “The point is, are we dreaming a dream to fulfill ourselves and to call attention to OUR achievements? Or to fulfill what GOD’s purpose is for our lives?” M.B.

    “I didn’t know the two were mutually exclusive”… Michael

    “Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.”
    Philippians 2:2-4

    it seems by this Gods word makes a distinction

    Madison Bella,

    I really like the points you are making above.
    Redeeming the time,
    as we will give an account for all of our actions, for every idle word we speak,
    whatever we do should be done for the glory of God…
    and learning to discern and practice what is wise from unwise,
    what is pleasing in the sight of God,
    and like athletes,
    train ourselves, having discipline and our focus, in the things of the Lord,
    renewing our mind to prove what is that good and acceptable will of God.

  151. Sister Christian says:

    As far as Abby’s adventure, I still have alot of mixed emotions about her journey

    Ambition can be a good thing, but one might also consider the cost involved
    Is it worth the risk, and for what is gained in the end?
    what is she/ or will she gain from this experience? what do others gain from her endeavors?

    heres one perspective someone shared on a news article in response to anothers post:

    “You and others like you (including her parents) don’t consider the human cost and risk to others. Instead, you feel entitled to do as you please and live in the fantasy that heroics are simply there for the taking – even for children – because others will always be there to help and clean up the mess. Unconcerned with the lives of rescuers (who are themselves the true heroes in this story) who have no choice but to lay their life on the line, you are already thinking ahead to the book-deal and the money to made of telling this tale. No doubt you would want to spread the proceeds around to cover the relatively modest costs of this rescue (running into hundreds of thousands of dollars) including a little something for the families of those who put their lives on the line to save a teenaged girl (she is 16) because her parents failed her. Let me ask you, what would your position be if say, the rescue plane that spotted her crashed at sea. Would it be of compassion for those truly heroic rescuers or perhaps stay firmly focused on your fairy tale princess and her book deal?”

    I do pray that she returns home safely.

  152. ( | o )====::: says:

    SC,
    “why do you have a tendency to do that to me?
    You “mentioned” about beauty pageants, and I expressed a little of my concern about it,
    and you blast me as a failure in missing the point…
    sorry I don’t follow your rules,,
    But then you applaud others who don’t follow traditional rules,,,

    I was not in conversation with you until you decided to engage.
    It’s because you really :: do :: have a tendency to let a point fly by and seize upon some passing comment that is :: not the point :: then make it :: your point :: and go far afield.

    The point of this thread, evidenced by the header and photo and Michael’s comments was about having bold dreams, the support of family and friends and the effect that such pursuits have on others, even a stranger who hosts a blog.
    I think Michael has been a font of encouragement lately and he gets far too many carping critics who slam him because his source of encouragement is sometimes something other than a chapter/verse bible quote.

    “Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.”
    Philippians 2:2-4

    it seems by this Gods word makes a distinction

    Um, no.
    Just because one quotes a bible verse :: out of context :: does not make it an authoritative end to a viewpoint one doesn’t agree with. Paul’s letter’s excerpt you misapply here was written to Philippian christians who were jockeying for political position within their community, applying all the tactics which used to work in their worship of other gods or within the Hellenist Hebrew community and doing a political thing in this new christian religion. Paul refocuses them on the person of Jesus and His centrality and a call to community so they could each have the freedom to follow Jesus boldly without undue influence from one political group over another.

    To misapply in such a manner is sad because it is meant to cease all discourse on a subject which challenges us to explore beyond our boundaries, especially our self imposed ones. Religion is one of the first to step up and shut down freedom of dreaming for fear that God will be sinned against or somehow be offended, or that His church’s sensibilities will be countered.

    Thankfully there have been those who ignore naysayers.

    “You and others like you (including her parents) don’t consider the human cost and risk to others. Instead, you feel entitled to do as you please and live in the fantasy that heroics are simply there for the taking – even for children – because others will always be there to help and clean up the mess. Unconcerned with the lives of rescuers (who are themselves the true heroes in this story) who have no choice but to lay their life on the line, you are already thinking ahead to the book-deal and the money to made of telling this tale. No doubt you would want to spread the proceeds around to cover the relatively modest costs of this rescue (running into hundreds of thousands of dollars) including a little something for the families of those who put their lives on the line to save a teenaged girl (she is 16) because her parents failed her. Let me ask you, what would your position be if say, the rescue plane that spotted her crashed at sea. Would it be of compassion for those truly heroic rescuers or perhaps stay firmly focused on your fairy tale princess and her book deal?”

    That is the most cynical thing I have read so far concerning this girl and her family and I am sad that you feel compelled to post it to bolster your point.

    The same could be said about others. Just insert names from history and it would read,

    “Gee Mary & Joseph, you and others like you don’t consider the human cost and risk to others by supporting your boy and his offbeat friends in their wild eyed quest to challenge the Sadducees and the Pharisees. Don’t you know it could actually cost him his life?”

  153. Sister Christian says:

    Grendal,

    Boy I sure have a knack to bring out the best in you dont i? Sadness and feelings of hate… Nice. But I am trying to do better.

    I didnt use that quote to bolster my point, sorry you took it as such.
    It was only meant to share one aspect of the situation from anothers perpective, as we evaluate both the situation and explore various views on the matter..

    As stated earlier I have mixed emotions about the situation, and havent come to any formal conclusion if Abby and her parents actions were wise or foolish. Yet you continue to ascribe motives to me that just arent so,
    especially when you write in regards to my posting a Bible verse:

    “To misapply in such a manner is sad because it is meant to cease all discourse on a subject which challenges us to explore beyond our boundaries, especially our self imposed ones.”

    No it wasnt meant that way at all.
    there are several other verses regarding selfish ambition, not only in the political sense, but rather in a broader more general setting.
    But I wont bother posting them, as you characteristically refute them.

    Is it wrong for me to take a point and address it or develop It?
    Is it wrong for me to ask you a question? Obviously, to you yes, if its not central to the theme of the thread. But that doesnt apply to everyone for you does it?

    It just seems odd how you critique me- in what you perceive- as an attempt to cease discourse on a subject which promotes going beyond boundaries,
    while stipulating your own self imposed boundaries upon me in a seeming measure to stop discourse in regard to surpassing boundaries. ( i.e. stay on topic and dont divert)
    You might agree, there are some boundaries we just shouldn’t cross
    but what Im seeing here is the boundaries you dont think we should go beyond are the ones which happen to collide with yours.

    would you prefer that I refrain refrain from engaging in conversation with you from this point forward?

  154. Sister Christian says:

    and yes, Grendal, I am well aware of the point of the thread.
    Are we only to enter discussion if its completely on Topic?

    It would be kind of you to explain the rules,
    for future understanding of where the boundaries are
    and how to proceed in engaging

  155. Michael says:

    This is the last comment I’ll make on this thread, which has already roamed far from it’s purpose.

    Life sucks the life out of you.

    The difficulties and cares of this world will bring you to a place of despair and surrender.

    I need people in the world like Abby and like Grendal and like Sis.

    I’m soon to be 52, I’m broke and unemployed and haven’t had a sniff of interest in six months.

    Grendal was in a similar place and he has reinvented himself with work and vision to succeed again using the gifts God gave him.

    That’s inspirational, that’s uplifting, and it speaks more of God to me than 500 sermons.

    Sis had a vision for a broken down old church in a foreign country…and she followed that vision.

    That made no sense on paper…but we can see that it made complete sense to God.

    People like Abby and Grendal and Sis are challenging boundaries, pushing themselves to see what God really created them to be.

    I’m frankly stunned at the rancor…and have stronger emotions about the fact that I’ve yet to see anyone consider that maybe that young lady is doing exactly what the good Lord would have her to do.

    I’m reminded again of the boxes and shackles that are part and parcel of religion…and I’ll fight with my last breath before those are laid on me or my boy.

    The works set before us are just that…the works set before US…personally chosen by God for us to complete in His Spirit with the unique gifts He gave us.

    I’m not going to criticize what someone else is called to try…I’ll be rooting for them to show us that with God all things are possible.

    Having said all that…it’s an open forum and all Gods people are entitled to their opinions.

    This doesn’t need to get personal.

    Me…I’m going to hang with Grendal cause I need light and he’s carrying a lantern.

  156. Xenia says:

    >>>I’m not going to criticize what someone else is called to try<<<

    I'll keep this in mind.

  157. Em says:

    both Grendal and Sister C are correct in their observations –
    as much as we’d like to think it is, this isn’t just one big homogenous family on planet earth – a lot goes into what gives each individual their ‘world view.’ it’s a fascinating dynamic – part of the genius of God. In reality – really 🙂 – it is true that there are those who do clean up after the risk takers, the adventurers, right or wrong?
    i’ve lived most of my life next to the Cascade Mountains that beckon irresistibly to some (why climb the mountain? because it’s there has never made sense to me) and the very same people who climb are the ones who risk their lives in rescue – now if i had to go out there and do the rescue, i’d probably want to make it illegal to climb mountains 🙂
    there’s room for all of us – MB pours some of her time and money into dog rescue – her heart compels her and, yet, her neighbor might be thinking: euthanize the animal and feed a human
    the end of all of it for the family of God is a clear conscience before Him.
    He did after all create quite a variety and He doesn’t ask us to stop being what He created us to be, does He?

  158. Em says:

    well, why i was sitting here thinking how to politely say it – Michael posted and said it waay better

    i, for one, have been waiting and praying to see how God will redefine your life dear brother, Michael
    i used to watch EWTN and there was a priest, Fr. Groeschel (sp?) who shared Christ from a body that was badly broken by a car-pedestrian encounter, i believe – all he really had left was Christ – and, i think of Joni Erickson Tada and confess that i just have to wait and trust the Lord of Glory

  159. Michael says:

    Em,

    Well said…there’s room for all of us.

  160. Buster says:

    I just read this in the “Jesus Manifesto:”

    “Knowing Christ as your ‘rest’ and allowing Him to live His life through you is one of the most freeing things that you can know as a Christian. ‘He who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from his.’ (Heb 4:10)

    “Resting in Christ doesn’t mean being passive. It means allowing the Lord to do the heavy lifting. Laziness is no more the way to follow Jesus than is busyness.

    “‘He who calls you is faithful, who will also will to do it.’ (1 Th 5:24)

    “‘For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.’ (Phi 2:3)”

  161. Michael says:

    Buster,

    What do you think of the book?

  162. Em says:

    MB, the most righteous man i knew was my grandfather and he would agree with you – when he farmed grandmother said that he never did anything else until the livestock was taken care of…
    i’d hope that even those who’d vote for euthanizing those strays would still stop their car to rescue one…
    i don’t know why we have so few strays here in Washington State now… seeing a dog running loose is almost unheard of ? ? ? we did have a large population of Vietnam refugees a while back and the word got out that they found a “use” for stray pets – it may have been coincidence, but that was when people seemed to get better at keeping track of their pets – sadly the coyotes take care of strays where i am now – it’s a real problem

    loved your story about potty training the baby pitbull – i baby sit one of them when my daughter pulls a 24 hour shift – an incredible little creature

  163. Bob says:

    When the winds and waves hit that little boat she experienced something most of us never will, the immediate possibility of death. This wasn’t a three hour tour. Even with sat phones, navigation and all the cool stuff what she did was an adventure and she wasn’t afraid to step up and give it a try.

    Now I ask, since 5 of the 12 were fishermen, did you ever wonder why Jesus specifically chose them? Did he do it just to be able to say, “I’ll make you fishers of men?” Or maybe it was because men who risked death in sudden storms and things out of their control, were the kind of men whom he wanted to start his church?

    Abby’s life will never be the same again because she took a risk bigger than most of us.

    Will I take such risks?

  164. Buster says:

    Michael, I’m still reading the Jesus Manifesto. At first I was like, “Nothing new here,” but then it started getting better. I really like the theme of “manifesting Jesus” instead of just “trying to be like him.” Viola and Sweet say important things that the church needs to hear.

    But I think they’ll end up offending both the conservatives and the liberals. I showed the book the other day to an emergent friend, and she happened to open it to the section titled, “Rethinking Justice,” and read a few pages.

    They write, “…when ‘justice’ becomes a goal in itself, or God is equated with justice, we have moved from Christianity to another religion.”

    She was polite, but I could tell by the look on her face that she didn’t like what she was reading!

    I will probably be presenting the book to our small group next month when I host again.

  165. Believe says:

    “Will I take such risks?”

    Amen Bob.

    While there is certainly a place for quiet piety…the Jesus of the Bible and the Apostles were risk takers.

    What guts it took…with the Jewish leaders…and the Roman Empire…to say and do the things they did. They were Revolutionaries. They turned human history on its ear.

    Salt and Light…is not always safe and quiet…IMO. Peter and the “Sons of Thunder” James and John…not so safe and quiet (not saying safe and quiet is bad…at all…just a different part of the Body).

  166. ( | o )====::: says:

    “greater good” is in the eye of the beholder.
    Why can’t people who want to try something adventurous that stretches them personally simply be cheered on?

  167. Em says:

    Holly, with reference to my #170 – i did not mean to imply that your heart was hardened toward needy people (that you chose critter-care over human care) – it could have been taken that way, i fear – just want to set the record straight

  168. Nene says:

    As a 12 year old I was awed in a school assembly by John Goddard. Later on, sparks flew reading Robin Graham’s “The Dove” over and over. Yes, I sailed and traveled, and met Christ along the way. Those days were magical, and miraculous. Abby’s travels are sure to spark a desire in a new generation. Praise God she is safe.

  169. Em says:

    MB,”I love caring for both people and animals” – yes, from your posts over time here, i know that is you – you and Michael are both people lovers (he may not realize that he is, however 😉 ) – just wanted to go record 😉 in case …

  170. ( | o )====::: says:

    in the spirit of adventure and learning…

    http://www.recombinantrecords.net/docs/2009-12-Challenged.html

  171. ( | o )====::: says:

    mb,
    it’s right to be upset when someone robs you of your dreams and belittles you, especially while they’re unfairly playing the “God” card.

    you are passionate about life with Jesus at the center. you love your kids, animals, you love people and you’re full of life.

    Go for it, have a 5 year plan and remain flexible!!!

  172. ( | o )====::: says:

    there’s an old saying that goes, “love God and do what you please”

    there’s another one that goes, when in doubt, the answer is ‘yes’!”

  173. London says:

    My life is so weird lately, I can barely manage a 5 minute plan let alone a 5 year plan. 😉

    Who cares what those people say?? If you want to go and help animals then do it!

    Who are they to tell you what you “should” and “shouldn’t” do or what is or isn’t God’s plan for your life.

    There’s nothing wrong with making a 5 year plan if it gives you direction and vision. Tell them to go back to sitting on the sidelines and shut up.

  174. London says:

    or say in a nicer way so it sounds more “christian” 🙂

  175. Michael says:

    Holly,

    How often do I listen to unsolicited advise? 🙂

  176. Em says:

    MB, i think there’s an Aesop fable that deals with your dilema – something about an old man, a boy and a donkey…

  177. Another Voice says:

    Rom 14:10-13

    Bella, ask them to read this passage next time they pop off…

  178. Em says:

    MB … here’s a pretty good telling

    http://www.aesopfables.com/cgi/aesop1.cgi?sel&TheMantheBoyandtheDonkey

    i am waaay past my bed-time, but still functional for some reason 🙂

    God keep

  179. London says:

    Oh…Ha! I wouldn’t actually say that…I just think YOU should! :mrgreen:

  180. Another Voice says:

    Bella, as I see it

    When someone wants to play the Holy Spirit in YOUR life, since the Holy Spirit is God, they are wanting to “be like God” – it is the oldest sin in history.

    Goes back to the original sin. Ultimately, whenever the devil can get someone to act like God, rather than submit to God, he gets a victory. Every time I say “Not thy will, but MY will be done Lord” I am playing God.

  181. Nomansapologist says:

    This thread has turned out some very valuable thoughts and insight.
    At the church I used to attend, it was basically gospel that one would hear from God, and not move forward with a thing until you had three seperate unsolicited confirmations from other believers. I am ashamed to say I genuinely thought this was scriptually founded because it was such an expected and common practice.

    We often think that if our plans dont work out we have made some kind of God displeasing mistake, when actually it is all just a part of a character building God honoring process.

    To the pure pf heart, there are no mistakes.
    He is with us in our triumphs and failures.

    I think what displeases God is when His children think his presense is dependant on our decisions. making us fearful about every little decision we make…
    This borders on superstition, not journeying with a faithful Savior.

    When we moved away from our old church and out of state, I was told by my primary spiritual leader that I was going to “egypt” and outside of the protective covering of my God and to not be surprised when things began falling apart…

    What a pile of rubbish.

    That brings me to this
    Holly, I think it may be time to employ a new group of advisors :mrgreen:

    Do that half marathon. Who says God isn’t with you while training to do it? (I run 7 miles a day, and find my most treasured fellowship with God in that time)

    Go and rescue those Dogs, and see what God does with it.
    God made you passionate about these things, so go in boldness & without fear..

  182. Nomansapologist says:

    And the next time someones guides by you “the Holy Spirit” against something that you are dreaming to do, ask them what leads them to believe that you don’t hear from God.
    This is what I do now, and it has been extremely useful 🙂

    It is important who we let and don’t let speak into our lives.

    I have found that many want the glory of being a “prophet/prophetess” with out the weight.

  183. Bob says:

    Bella:

    “That’s a great verse….one woman in particular is of the mindset (like an ODM!) that if a vision isn’t **completely** enmeshed in Scripture 24/7 — it’s a waste. ”

    I love God’s word and do my best to read and dwell on it all day, but not for the reasons this woman has mentioned to you.

    I love the word of God because it reveals the God of creation to me, His love, compassion, grace, instruction and motivation. To be honest it picks me up and helps me to explore and go out to do the hard things in life. It keeps my mind from staying to the seedy side of things.

    I have hiked, flown, raced, biked, built, led others, raised a family (I think that won’t end until the day I die, so what Greek tense would that be?) and more under the light of His word. When I think I can’t go further it leads me further still. It gives me hope for the future as well as mercy in the present.

    Just do it and praise Him for it and ignore these people who want to put you under their thumb and yoke!

  184. Luth says:

    M*B,

    “Birthed in prayer.”

    Aw, how spiritual.
    (Sarcasm mode off.)

    But also, yuck.

    I agree with others here — Love God and do as you please!

    Be a brave sinner — move ahead knowing that God is with you!.

  185. Em says:

    MB, i don’t think the fable was intended to give ‘chills,’ i think the donkey represents one’s life – not really a poor, helpless little burro going over the bridge and into the drink. I’m sorry, i didn’t think…

    i remember as a child thinking the Aesop was boring with capital letters and, then i had that ‘aha’ moment when i got it and then they were like puzzles to ponder – i loved them – i had lots of books as a child and not much to do with my time – some of the kids said that i talked funny; that i didn’t sound like a kid … still talk funny, but now i do sound like a kid 😆 can’t help it

  186. Mya says:

    MB, i don’t think the fable was intended to give ‘chills,’ i think the donkey represents one’s life – not really a poor, helpless little burro going over the bridge and into the drink. I’m sorry, i didn’t think…

    i remember as a child thinking the Aesop was boring with capital letters and, then i had that ‘aha’ moment when i got it and then they were like puzzles to ponder – i loved them – i had lots of books as a child and not much to do with my time – some of the kids said that i talked funny; that i didn’t sound like a kid … still talk funny, but now i do sound like a kid 😆 can’t help it

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.