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62 Responses

  1. At least you are at peace with the fact that you suck. Well at least you know it.

  2. Some of us think everyone else sucks.

  3. Wait… is that the application?

  4. One thing for sure those of us who agree with you think those who don’t suck!

  5. Being first five times on one thread is cool and doesn’t suck. Anyway love the post. Is that the love you were talking about?

  6. Michael says:


    I’ll take what I can get… 🙂

  7. covered says:

    Well said Michael & BD. It sucks to suck…

  8. Ricky Bobby says:

    I suck, you suck, we all suck! LOL. Love it.

  9. Frosted Flake says:

    Wow! A Christian, a Pastor and a member of the Body of Christ. You are screwed Dude. Call Kavorkian! sp?

  10. Michael says:


    I’ve spent all week hearing how wrong I am about everything, so I just decided to cop to it. 🙂

  11. I love this article, which is exactly why i hated the “Doves Cry” article so much.

  12. Bob Sweat says:

    I’m never FIRST anymore, I suck!!!!

  13. Michael says:


    You’re always the “honorary” first. 🙂

  14. Bob Sweat says:

    The “Doves Cry” thread was just a few little boys fighting over who knows more. 🙂 I suck for saying that!

  15. EricL says:

    Michael, I think I have figured out the job God has gifted you to do. You are called to be a vacuum cleaner, for there sucking is not only a virtue but it is an essential part of the ministry to floors. Henceforth, you shall be known as Micheal Eureka Hoover Newnham. (or if you prefer the darker side, call yourself the Dirt Devil).

  16. Michael says:

    Dirt Devil!
    I now have an alter ego!
    Love it…

  17. This blog has been about the Dove for many of us who wandered in here looking for allies against the religious beast. Doves Cry was a necessary chapter in the unfolding story. The eschatology of Chuck Smith is a necessary part of the story of this blog. To ignore it, especially with such a bombshell story is not reasonable. Interestingly the story should have been a big deal but not in today’s environment. The waning of the mothership doesn’t seem to have traction. Michael had to tell the story and people have to dissent.

    My reaction was “meh.” But that is because I have no passion for the present stakes. They are diminished like the old patriarch who is fading away… as we all are.

  18. filbertz says:

    that a lack of love is the issue, not a lack of discernment, makes this post accurate and helpful. The self-loathing and others-loathing characterizing much of the Church in America is not just counter-productive, it is contrary to the Gospel. Concluding the sacrificial love of Christ produces giant losers is ludicrous. “I am (in Christ) therefore I suck” needs to be firmly opposed. Good exhortation today, Michael.


  19. Jim says:

    I totally suck.

    Michael, you suck much less than some, which is obviously no consolation. I personally find your lack of suckyness endearing. I also think your suckyness is endearing.

    I think that we should accept our suckyness without embracing it, which is probably why I think your love for Steve Brown does not suck, while Ryle….

  20. Michael says:

    Well said, BD.
    Thank you.

  21. Michael says:


    You hit the sweet spot…this self loathing is contrary to the Gospel in so many ways…and the first step toward a cure is recognizing that.

  22. Michael says:


    Ryle gives us the baseline to understand Brown… 🙂

  23. Bob Sweat says:

    BD – Word!

    I didn’t mean to infer that the article didn’t need to be posted.

  24. Jim says:

    As a recovered(ing?) navel gazer AND Pharisee, I’ll not argue the point, except to say that my tribe needs more Browns.

  25. Michael says:


    I will “amen” that!

  26. hyst a thought says:

    maybe you should stay off social media. Just sayin…

  27. Kevin H says:

    When speaking out criticism that is needed (and at times it is needed), the key is doing it in a loving rather than a divisive spirit. Much easier said than done. Discernment is also needed in deciding when the criticism is needed to be spoken and when it is best withheld. Again, often difficult to do.

    We often suck at succeeding with these things. And even when we get them right, some people are still going to think we suck.

  28. I am a card-carrying member of the “You Suck” club!

  29. London says:

    Pfffffft…at least you’re not a Democrat. 😉
    We have had the market on being told we suck in church circles for a long long time.

  30. Frosted Flake says:

    BD and Bob,
    The only flaw in the “Cry” article was that it was 100% true and needed to be written.

  31. parker says:

    Man, I just opened up this post and all I can hear is the deafening sound of a vacuum!

  32. Articles like this are why I keep coming back!

  33. Ixtlan says:

    This thread reminds me of a song by Insane Clown Posse. I don’t recommend googling it.

    What I think sucks is the important, factual article “When Doves Cry” is published to only have it turn into a thread of irrelevant, inane arguments.

  34. Sorry, I like articles like this.
    Articles like that are more geared towards tearing down.
    Plus no one actually involved thought it was important enough to have any skin in the game, so it actually doesn’t seem all that newsworthy.

    If Michael has a legacy it should be stuff like this. This is worthy.

  35. Plus, sometimes when people say I suck, they are actually right on the money.
    And sometimes I know this.

  36. Bob Sweat says:

    Ixtlan – Right on!!!!

    That’s what I meant earlier, little boys fighting.

  37. Nonnie says:

    Well I sure do appreciate the company here. I’m bringing the lollipops for you all.

  38. Linnea says:

    Welcome to the rest of us suck-ers! There must be a giant vacuum in this country with all of us here 🙂

  39. erunner says:

    It’s a black hole and I can’t get out! 🙂 Thank you Michael.

  40. Dude says:

    This post is a real suckfest at best.
    Have a wonderfull weekend you all.

  41. Something that doesn’t suck…

    So, a guy known for being dressed as a “satanic evil bass player” goes on record and says,

    “I think religion is good for mankind. Without the Ten Commandments,” he pauses to note, “Jews gave you that,” and continues, “Without that, there’d be chaos. Somebody had to say, ‘Here are some good ideas: don’t steal, and don’t kill.’ Those are good ideas. That’s called ‘civilization.’ There was once a time where those things weren’t written down. You had chaos! We still have chaos, but there’s a reference point. But those are good ideas. Honor thy father and thy mother. That’s a good idea!”

    Cue Alanis Morisette’s “Ironic”

  42. brian says:

    This may sound strange but I think why I suck and in a strange back handed way but my experience is actually deep down needing God is most likely the worst thing you can do.

  43. brian says:

    Having been in a fire sort of like this I think I can relate a bit. From my 31 years in the evangelical faith, the fire in my case did not finish the job, God missed a mark so to speak. I survived I should not have that is also another view of my Christian experience. Why did God burn those folks and not me, I am sure I am worse then them. This type of thinking can drive you nuts and it is suppose to. It is the rhetoric of cheap slutty presup apologetic trash to make us feel guilty for surviving some type of God ordained oblivion. Wow I mean feeling guilty when you did not burn, and you know from 31 years in the apologetic and well from eternity past you should have died and burned in eternal hell. I would never be so presumptuous that a perfect Deity would love me, but I have broached the idea that such a deity did not, from the foundations of the universe loath my soul with an eternal vengeance.

    From my experience God hates us, you, me, the man in the moon, he hates us with a passion a deep eternal anger, so He can release His holy Wrath and mow us all down to His glory. Why does the eternal deity of glory find any type of solace in mowing us down? I get the idea God hates me, trust me I live day to day with that, I get God wants me dead and on a spit to be roasting for all eternity and that would be doing me a favor. I get that. I really do.

    I get the idea God stays up nights from the creation dreaming up eternal horrors so that He may be glorified in our torture. God ordained it and it is holy. I dont get why God needs more blood other then from His Son but it is clear He does, lots more blood on every level. From the cheap seats, I find this a very strange religion I really do.

  44. Brian, I have to wonder if the purveyors of that apologetic are somehow related to the folks at Westboro Baptist.

  45. LOL to G’s post.
    Gene Simmons has the typical American view of religion.

    What is so great about the 10 commandments? before Sinai was it OK to worship any God you wanted? To curse God? Was it OK to disrespect your parents? Was it OK to kill, lie, commit adultery? to steal or covet.

    (for the evangelicals out there, the answer is no it wasn’t OK.) 😉

  46. I just love the fact that Gene Simmons is standing up for Tim Teabow and freedom of religion while he points out some of the hypocrisy of the sports press.

    The anti-secular music pulpit monkeys who love to whoop up the faithful with how evil and satanic KISS are as an example of the decay of the american conservative way of life have made a buck using Simmons as a poster boy for the devil while carrying Teabow on their backs.

    I’ve gotta Photoshop Simmons in full costume and makeup, spitting up blood while Tim Teabow is on his shoulders in full uniform as Gene is holding his bass and raises his hand in a “thumbs-up”!

  47. Xenia says:

    From my experience God hates us, you, me, the man in the moon, he hates us with a passion a deep eternal anger, so He can release His holy Wrath and mow us all down to His glory. <<<<

    Get over this, it's a lie. Throw away your Jonathan Edwards and start reading St. John Chrysostom.

  48. Xenia says:

    All Simmons basically said was that religion is the opiate of the masses, that it more or less keeps people from killing each other too often.

    He is not a person that is to be admired. G, spend you artistic abilities on something more worthwhile.

  49. Xenia says:

    An aging rock star who revels in his representation of wickedness says “religion isn’t so awful” in defense of a football player and all the Christians on FB fall down weeping with joy.

  50. Xenia – in your #48. Please tell me you don’t really fall for brian’s schtick. LOL if you do.

    He plays the blog theater better than myself. 🙂

  51. Xenia says:

    MLD, I have no idea but the thought has crossed my mind more than once.

  52. Xenia,
    For the same reason that I pay no attention to Richard Dawkins and his commentary on religion (he is a biologist among other things and NOT a theologian) the same with Gene Simmons – may be a great rock band member,(although I could not tell you a single recording they made) but really has no standing to make religious comments… outside of perhaps his own kitchen table.

  53. brian says:

    sort of a shtick MLD but when its etched into your brain and soul, like some other shticks other people in real life and on this blog have its hard to get rid of. Just for clarification.

  54. ( |o )====::: says:

    One of my brilliant and awesome daughters, the journalist, posted about Gene Simmons,
    “KISS is the best example of music marketing for a specific genre and audience. I’m convinced they’re all just brilliant businessmen who liked feeling taller in platform boots.

  55. ( |o )====::: says:

    KISS is the best example of music marketing for a specific genre and audience. I’m convinced they’re all just brilliant businessmen who liked feeling taller in platform boots.

    “Religion is the opiate of the masses, that it more or less keeps people from killing each other too often.”

    Actually, this is spot on.
    Before anyone codified religion we humans were more barbaric.
    Judaism is to be credited for giving humanity it’s best at the time. It continues to refine and evolve. Pretty cool.

    As to anyone having a standing to be listened to, it’s observable that the reporter paid enough attention to Simmons cogent observations to bring the story and there was no quote offered from any PhxP blogger

  56. “Before anyone codified religion we humans were more barbaric.”

    Wasn’t it shortly after receiving the 10 commandments that these same people slaughtered the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, the Jebusites, and the Gergoshites? For you CC guys, and the Termites (I think every single CC pastor has added the Termites to the end of that list.) 🙂

    So tell me how codifying religion made us less barbaric? Abraham and his group 400 yrs earlier seemed pretty tamed.

  57. ( |o )====::: says:

    “So tell me how codifying religion made us less barbaric?”

    We finally had the handbook from the HR Department, and the fact that we had it made for opportunities for conversation, sort of like blogging without the anonymity.

    Human society gets another opportunity to evolve.

    Pretty cool.

  58. So why did they go on the killing rampage after receiving the HR handbook?

    You see the 10 commandments as a rule book?

    Hmmm, you totally missed covenant.

  59. But that is the theology stated by Gene Simmons – and you already fessed up to admiring his thoughts.

  60. “So why did they go on the killing rampage after receiving the HR handbook?

    You see the 10 commandments as a rule book?

    Hmmm, you totally missed covenant.

    But that is the theology stated by Gene Simmons – and you already fessed up to admiring his thoughts.”

    Um, no, I see the 10 commandments as the written expression of what Israel claimed was God’s revelation to them. Rampages? They failed to a degree as will every generation of humanity. That is still no reason to diminish those who make individual choices to seek and worship God and hold one’s peer and family in higher regard. If that’s wrong in someone’s mind, that’s not going to stop me from having hope and congratulating the many unsung individuals within a given generation who step up and seek to honour God and neighbor, welcome the stranger and as much as it lies within them live at peace with those who are different from them..

    An HR handbook speaks as a written expression of the ideals, culture and heart of an organization, not a rule book.

    As it goes regarding Gene Simmons, I am far more interested in someone like him who has been vilified most of my life getting some positive press about his expression of how he views faith. I just give the guy some credit in moving the ball forward in culture, recognizing that Tim T’s playing on an uneven field.

    Its just that, nothing more.

    Yay Gene Simmons.

  61. Rob says:

    “Suck” is definitely an overly used word.

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