The Supreme Court Decisions

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37 Responses

  1. Dread says:

    It’s a good ruling in terms of the integrity of our constitutional republic.

    It could be a disaster in terms of the drive toward tearing down the existing order.

    Many Americans already hate our country.

    Christ have mercy.

  2. Michael says:

    Dread,

    I don’t sense that there will be waves of violence over the ruling.
    I may be wrong.
    I do sense that some on the right are desperately hoping for that reaction…

  3. LInn says:

    I work in a school where most people lament the decision, so I’m keeping a low profile. today at summer school. I also live in a state where we will now be a “sanctuary” for those who want an abortion. I am not that anti when it’s an unviable pregnancy or a danger to the life of the mother to carry to term. What has always concerned me is that, unless it’s rape, no one has to get pregnant. That’s what birth control is for. I mean, I would rather see sex relegated to marriage only, but I know people will do what they do, but they can usually prevent an unwanted pregnancy.

  4. Michael says:

    Linn,

    I tend to agree with you…contraception is not difficult.

  5. Michael says:

    I’m so disconnected from all this…I probably shouldn’t even speak to these matters.
    We need a renewal in the church…these political machinations will amount to little in the long run.

  6. Kevin H says:

    Abortion rates in many cases in our country were higher before Roe v. Wade, even when abortion was illegal in many parts of the country, than they are today. Women in states where abortion is made illegal will often instead just travel to a state where it is legal or else they will have an illegal abortion (which is now all the more easier to make happen with the abortion pill).

    Lives will be saved when hearts change. Not only hearts that come to see the unborn as the most vulnerable of human life, but also hearts that come to respect and seek to support and protect all life (the poor, the needy, the orphan, the immigrant, the refugee, the discriminated, etc.), and especially want to see pregnant women in distress and need to be supported in whatever ways feasibly possible (personally, community-wise, and legislatively-wise).

    Without changed hearts, overturning Roe v. Wade, even as it was an immoral law, will make little impact.

  7. Michael says:

    KevinH,

    Well said.

  8. Michael says:

    One of my favorite pundits sees the same thing I do…

    https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/06/problem-gun-culture-not-scotus/661375/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

    “The problem is not the Court’s decision. The problem is an adolescent, drama-laden gun culture, a romance with weapons that became extreme only in the past quarter century.

    It didn’t use to be this way. I grew up around guns; my father had been a police officer, and we had two of them. My older half-brother, who lived a few streets away, was a police officer. Our next-door neighbor was a police officer. My hometown was a military town, and almost all of the men I knew were veterans who owned weapons and knew how to handle them. (There were some female veterans too. My mother, for one.)

    What I remember about guns is that I remember almost nothing about guns. People owned them; they didn’t talk about them. They didn’t cover their cars in bumper stickers about them, they didn’t fly flags about them, they didn’t pose for dumb pictures with them. (I’ll plead one personal exemption: When I was a little boy, relatives in Greece once posed me in a Greek Evzone-soldier costume with my uncle’s hunting shotgun. I could barely lift it.)

    Today, there is a neediness in the gun culture that speaks to deep insecurities among a certain kind of American citizen. The gun owners I knew—cops, veterans, hunters, sportsmen—owned guns as part of their life, sometimes as tools, sometimes for recreation. Gun ownership was not the central and defining feature of their life.”

  9. AA says:

    Michael I hope you’re right that there won’t be violence, even as their boarding up the windows in downtown Dallas.
    I see the baby killing will not be impeded on the West Coast.
    https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2022/06/west-coast-states-form-pact-to-provide-abortion-care.html

  10. The New Victor says:

    I fully understand the storm and anger on overturning Roe. It’s a societal sea change of epic proportions.

    The 14th amendment nod for concealed carry isn’t a big deal if only for a few dozen counties in restrictive states. California already has several rural counties that are “shall issue,” the permits good state wide. 23 states have no restrictions. Vermont has never had restrictions since 1789.

    It will only impact places where I live, where the former sheriff had controversy for issuing permits “pay to play” (campaign contributions and the like).

  11. Robin says:

    It just feels like the clash between parties had been taken a huge notch higher, it feels like an attack, something forced, it’s oppressive. In two days, two major laws overturned, that after so many innocent children killed. It’s so brutal, vicious. I believe abortion is immoral, but not like this..I fear the rates will rise as people leave a settled distaste for abortion into a militant stance for it. And behind it all I see this as Trump’s biggest accomplishment – his permanent mark on this country.

  12. Robin says:

    Evangelicals have won the culture war at the expense of people’s souls.

  13. pstrmike says:

    It feels like a hollow victory. I think abortion is immoral and yet might, I said might, be the best course in certain cases. What concerns me is whether this is an apparent violation of the rule of law (as Biden described it), which was also how January 6th has been described. The fingerprints continue……

    So many of the various comments critiquing the SCOTUS decision are skewed in an attempt to reshape a narrative that fits their own agenda. How did we as a society ever get to a place where a woman’s right to choose became paramount at the expense of an unborn child? How was it that these two even entered into conflict? I think the answer goes back many years prior to 1973……. Still thinking that through but I think it is a horrible commentary on who we are as a culture. But for me, it doesn’t feel like the case of calling evil good and good evil as much as it feels like bad people condemning other bad people. Inside we are full of dead man’s bones.

  14. Linn says:

    Pstr Mike,

    We have an entire society built on “I can do whatever I want with my body.” That’s a bit blunt, but that’s what I’ve observed over my almost 65 years on the planet. A couple years ago I was sitting at lunch with my coworker as she described the threesome she enjoys with her trans husband and their non-binary friend. I have a number of friends who have posted numerous times on Facebook today about how they will fight for their right to an abortion. It’s sad, but we’ve been at this point for a while.

  15. Nonnie says:

    I am against abortion, but after 50 years of it being wide open (the past few years) I would happily settle for “Abortion, Safe and RARE,” like it was, when Roe vs Wade was first opened up.
    Can we go back to that? Back then abortion was allowed up through the First Trimester. 12 weeks! Abortion up to 12 weeks.
    I remember those days because I was a young college student fighting for abortion rights, but not one of us ever dreamed that there would be a day that people would be crying and screaming, protesting and rioting, and demanding that they legally kill a baby, 5 months, 6 months, 7 months, 8 month, up to birth, for any reason!
    “Abortion on demand! Without Apology!” That is their cry,
    This is what we have descended to. This is utter insanity. This is evil. God help us.

  16. Michael says:

    When we can no longer reach reasonable compromises, extremes will be the result.

    My hope is that at least exceptions are made for ectopic pregnancies or miscarriages that won’t vacate…times when the life of the mother is in danger.

    Some are already speaking of denying such exemptions.

    Safe and rare would be the ideal…but it will be one extreme or another for the next couple of decades…

  17. Nonnie says:

    I agree with you completely. Ectopic pregnancies and miscarriages are medical needful procedures and it would be an outrage to prohibit those. I cannot imagine that is being discussed. That would be just as insane and evil as the other extreme! God help us.

  18. Michael says:

    Nonnie,

    We live in perilous times.

    The pendulum swings are becoming more extreme… authoritarianism from one side or the other is primed.

    We won’t see gracious winners or losers or the art of compromise for the common good in our lifetimes.

  19. Steve says:

    Now, if we can somehow make adoption more affordable for couples. We looked into adoption 7 years ago and it was not within reach for us. That has to change.

  20. Dread says:

    Prohibition was a national ban and it failed. This is different. The states will regulate abortion and regional values will prevail.

    It will curb but not end abortion but it does reset the national debate. Federalism is being given a reprieve. So we will see.

    This is a proper step in the direction of how heats change. New laws always nudge that process. The old canard about legislating morality is false. We are always legislating things that change morality. Gay marriage is an example. The law changed and public attitudes (moral actions) are changing.

    What will follow? We can’t be sure but conflict will be in the mix.

  21. Michael says:

    The abortion debate underscores the importance of understanding narrative.

    The narrative for pro choice people is just that…it’s about choice and “rights’…the narrative on the other side is about “life”.

    Neither side has anything akin to a consistent narrative across all issues…this is a political debate, not really a moral one, if the truth be known.

    If “life” was the issue pro life groups would be volunteering on the border and pro choice groups would let you decide about vaccinations…

  22. Dread says:

    I’m just commenting on the court action and it’s impact… not the life/choice narratives, but I receive your response.

  23. Michael says:

    Changing hearts would mean the acceptance of a different narrative…a different way of understanding the same issue.

    That is not politically expedient.

    What happens now is that abortion becomes the political motivator for the left that it was for the right and the dirty dance toward societal hell goes on to a different beat.

  24. pstrmike says:

    “What happens now is that abortion becomes the political motivator for the left that it was for the right and the dirty dance toward societal hell goes on to a different beat.”

    Well said. For years pro-life conservatives were accused (and to some degree rightfully so) of being only concerned about one issue. Now the recent rhetoric from the left is that they will likewise be focused on one issue.

    This is going to play in a few different arenas, one being states rights vs. federal oversight. I can see people looking to move to regions that fit their political perspectives. There are already migrations taking place as conservatives seem to be fleeing the West Coast heading for the SouthEast and the Inland Northwest. Clashes due to cultural perspectives are inevitable. Eventually, these migrations could effect the electoral college. As in all situations, the poor have few choices and suffer due to their inability to relocate themselves.

  25. filistine says:

    Adoption in so many cases, even among Christians, became a “shop for just the perfect baby” syndrome which had as much to do with everyone ooohing and aaahhing over your ‘narrative’ of adoption–often travelling to far-off nations and enduring such dreadful things like ‘waiting.’ This, of course, drove up the prices, especially lawyers and travel and bribes… There are SO MANY children in foster care available for adoption and the prices are often $0.00. I know. I adopted four of my seven from foster care. They endured three and a half years of waiting in foster care for someone to step up and take their family. Could I afford to enlarge my family from three kids to seven? Looking back, how could we not? Truly it is time for “loving Christians” to put their money where their mouths have been. Pro-lifers got their wish. Make it a reality.

  26. filistine says:

    Regarding the guns decision–dudes doing the open carry thing, while legal, don’t make me, a fellow gun owner, feel any more safe. Instead, I feel less safe–like open carry is going to provoke some crazy exchange and result in more gun violence. Americans are not common sense, salt of the earth types anymore. We are divisive, angry, entitled, and easily provoked. I have my hopes, but also my concerns.

    One thing popularly tossed out as a “solution” is to fortify schools. As a teacher, I don’t want to teach in a prison setting, thank-you very much, and students don’t learn as well with the added layers of “protection” that feels more like restriction and suffocation. There has to be better ways of making public spaces safer.

  27. Officerhoppy says:

    It’s going to be interesting to see how this decision plays out. Opponents of the SCOTUS decision will not take this lying down.

  28. LInn says:

    filistine,

    I’m a teacher, too, and I’m afraid I would end up shooting myself in the foot before I hit anything with a gun. I work at a private school where we have enhanced our fencing/gates/sign-in system, do have security guards (although unarmed), and teachers can lock their doors on the inside. We did have security breached recently by an unarmed doofus being pursued by the police for a stolen car warrant. He thought he could run right through campus, but we end at the freeway sound wall. The SIP went well, with all teachers in the summer program locking their doors and keeping students busy with quiet activities. while the police cornered the intruder and took him away. The Uvalde situation was so mismanaged that it may end up being the poster child for how not to handle an armed intruder. There may still have been loss of life, but I don’t think as many if the police had entered more quickly.

    We’re all so obsessed with our rights-to free speech, carry/not carry, have/not have a baby, have our various maladies turned into causes (my new vocabulary word is “ablelism”-discrimination and social prejudice against people with disabilities), masked/not masked…I think of Jesus and Philippians 2 where it says that he emptied himself to become like us and give his life for our sins. Following his example, even among Christians, is definitely not very popular these days. Rights are only as good as the way in which you respect the rights of others. Real rights, though-I don’t consider abortion a right of any kind, but I can learn to listen and show concern for someone else’s position while sharing my own. We have totally lost the art of civil engagement.

  29. filistine says:

    Linn, I agree the Uvalde tragedy will likely be the one that becomes the “what not to do” lesson. The human element is typically the weakest. Malcolm Gladwell’s latest book explains how humans default to the best possible explanation/assume the best in the face of situations that are exactly the opposite. Teacher closes a door he/she thinks is locked–doesn’t check it. Police chief doesn’t take his radio. Can’t find the right key. Won’t breach the door because the assumption is it’s a barricade situation(!!??) Slow response time (19 minutes?!) It was a sh%t show except for the shooter–who seemed to have absolute focus. My building has thirteen outer doors that are never locked, another six typically locked, but sometimes propped open. Classroom doors are unlocked/locked from outside and there are no deadbolts. We are a disaster scenario waiting to happen, but I still feel that metal detectors/pass cards/backpack searches/armed guards/cameras everywhere may make sense to some but at what cost to the educational process and to the already fragile mental health of too many students. No easy answers just like binary thinking oversimplifies any discussion.

  30. The New Victor says:

    Again, the gun decision is only about issue of concealed permits. It has zero to do with open carry or permit less carry.

    Our schools here in San jose started fortifying a year ago. Not due to school shooters, but rando crazies coming on campuses.

  31. Muff Potter says:

    Let me begin by saying that I am staunchly anti-abortion.
    But.
    And here’s the big but:
    I am also an enthusiastic advocate for safe sex, contraception, and the widespread use of contraception, especially amongst the young, so that for the most part, it never gets to the point of abortion.
    When I express these views to fundagelicals, they don’t wanna’ hear it, and want to know if I know where I’ll spend eternity.

  32. Linn says:

    Yes, I too wish people would keep their underwear up, but if they aren’t going to, I’d much rather have reliable contraception available than an unplanned pregnancy.

  33. Francisco says:

    While I am pro life, I recognize that bans or new laws don’t change hearts and minds.

    I hope this ruling doesn’t lead to more civil strife and disorder. God help us.

  34. Officerhoppy says:

    Francisco
    Nope of us want that. But I think violence and dissent to the decision are inevitable.

  35. Xenia says:

    After watching some of the protests and the hysterical reactions of some people, I can only conclude that when R v W was ended, Satan in his wrath opened up the gates of hell and let his demons loose.

  36. Robin says:

    These people feel manhandled by the supreme court, that’s why they react this way. I could say the same thing about the people in the capitol uprising, they seemed very evil to me as well but probably felt like they were cheated.

  37. Robin says:

    This is what bothers me most, to a lot of people abortion was something settled long ago and they have had the time to think about it objectively and push their passions aside and see it for what it is, a child losing its life. Now that it’s on the national stage and people feel violated it is suddenly about my rights etc again. It leads to more militancy, now having an abortion is an expression of freedom.

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