The Weekend Word

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29 Responses

  1. Jean says:

    “that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor”

    Another amazing text on the means of grace. Giving believers and objective word and sign of their salvation. That along with the Galatians reference. Great stuff!

  2. Jean says:

    MLD, may we assume the Ephesians baptismal reference to “washing of water with the Word” is not speaking of amniotic water?

  3. The New Victor says:

    Without getting into a OSAS discussion, the stories of new Christians being martyred in Africa, the ME and Asia refusing to deny Christ make me wonder how many in the West are fat and complacent and how many would deny Christ if it came down to that.

  4. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Victor, on my own, given enough pressure I would probably deny Christ – but I think there are promises that God through the Holy Spirit gives you the strength to get through.

  5. Josh the Baptist says:

    ” not speaking of amniotic water?”

    One might ask who proposed that Ephesians 5:26 is speaking of amniotic water, but no need to kill a perfectly good straw man.

  6. Jean says:

    Josh,

    It was a stab at some levity. 🙂

  7. Josh the Baptist says:

    In that case, it’s a no from me, dawg.

  8. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    ” not speaking of amniotic water?”
    That is the standard explanation from John 3:5 – Jesus explaining how to be born again to Nick.
    “Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” There the water is explained away many times as the 1st birth amniotic fluid.

  9. Josh the Baptist says:

    And everywhere in the entire bible that water is mentioned it means the exact same thing, right?

  10. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Josh – no, sometimes it’s just means for drinking or bathing. But when it is used in some feature of salvation, it is always speaking in baptismal language.

  11. Josh the Baptist says:

    Like in John 4:14 ? Clearly about salvation, so is that too baptism?

  12. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Josh, I don’t play the pit scripture against scripture game. Just belly up to the bar and tell me what is the water in John 3 that is required for salvation?

  13. Josh the Baptist says:

    Is this article about John 3?!?

  14. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    no

  15. Josh the Baptist says:

    Hahah…well then why the inquisition?

    To recap – Water does not always mean baptism, even when speaking of salvation.

    (In the case of Ephesians, it might.)

  16. Jeff says:

    It’s also interesting to distinguish the th language in John 3:7. The Greek word used is anothen and not pahlin. Pahlin means again. Anothen means from above. So, you must be born from above (with water).

  17. Josh the Baptist says:

    What is it with the Greek lessons here recently? 🙂

  18. Jean says:

    It’s a service to us Josh.

  19. Josh the Baptist says:

    Well that’s fantastic. The hundreds of scholars in every major translation couldn’t do nearly as good as a dude with Strong’s.

  20. Jean says:

    Have you considered that there may be learned men or women among us?

  21. Duane Arnold says:

    #19 Josh

    … If only I’d known… I wouldn’t have had to conjugate 48 irregular verbs on my finals… silly me.

  22. Josh the Baptist says:

    Well, I’m one of those. Have you ever looked at the list of scholars inside each translation? They know more than me.

    NASB
    ESV
    KJV
    HCSB
    CSB
    NIV

    All say “again”.

    I’m guessing you are gonna go with “Jeff”?

  23. Jean says:

    Let’s comment on the topics, and not speculate on the qualifications of the commenters.

  24. Josh the Baptist says:

    @21 – Duane, Exactly.

    I’ve had a Strong’s for 20 years. Why in the world am I in seminary?

  25. Josh the Baptist says:

    You speculated, Jean. I don’t care if Jeff is a PHD, he’s up against a lot more in all those translations. He’ll have to make a better argument.

  26. Duane Arnold says:

    Josh

    Just checked CK Barrett (one of the best on the Greek text of John). A very nuanced verse. Cf. Barrett, Gospel of John, p.174.

  27. Jean says:

    How about we look at the prologue, to see how John interprets Jesus:

    “But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”

  28. Josh the Baptist says:

    If you look back at my #17 I was really just making a joke, because we’ve had another of these “the Greek really means” threads recently.

    I’m not saying there is no case to be made, only that it is a minority reading, so it would take some real scholarship to convince me.

    Now, my son has a birthday party so I have to run, but I will probably read up on it later tonight.

    So, thanks to Jeff, in a round-about way 🙂

  29. Jeff says:

    @#28 – Thanks Josh, in a round-about way:)

    I’m not trying to cause a stir. I a lurk a lot on this great site.

    And thanks for saying “I’m not saying there is not case to be made.”

    I pray you’re son had a great birthday party yesterday.

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