Things I Don’t Want to Think… But I Do…:Duane W.H. Arnold, PhD

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14 Responses

  1. Babylon’s Dread says:

    I just became a “me too”

  2. Michael says:

    BD,

    How so and how is it going over there?

  3. MM says:

    Duane

    You and I both know the “Church” isn’t fading, however what are fading is the traditional denominations and their political authority.

    Faith in God is far different than in the church. And it is often forgotten what a primary political role and influence the tradition church played in history. It could be confidently stated the role of the church was as much a political power as it was religion control.

    How easy it is to forget Abraham and how his faith existed in a time without a Bible, a theocracy or a common practice.

  4. Michael says:

    MM,

    I agree with Duane…while seeing your point.
    The NT model is that believers gather together to worship…that if any part is missing the whole Body suffers.
    We are suffering mightily these days.

  5. Duane Arnold says:

    MM

    As I wrote… “the Church as we have known it is fading”.

    It is not just denominations, it is non-denominational communities as well (including those who are difficult to recognize as “church”). I think the current evangelical grasp for political power will prove to be more harmful than we can even imagine…

  6. Dan from Georgia says:

    #8: I just got plain sick and tired of the rock-concert atmosphere of a nearby church. Even during communion they instruments (electric guitarS and bass guitar and drums) were loud. As in LOUD. Heck, I love me some classic and hard rock, but it has it’s place. Readying the heart for worship doesn’t seem to be one of them. Don’t they know that rock-concert worship services is sooooo 2004?

  7. Duane Arnold says:

    Dan

    For me it has gotten down to, “If you want to see Rob Thomas or Florence and the Machine, buy your ticket and go and see them… If you want to go to church, go to church…” One is entertainment, the other is not.

  8. bob1 says:

    I like what you said, Duane, under #10 — I view it (death) as the next
    great adventure.”

    Me, too. I’ve been reading NT Wright’s book “Surprised by Hope.” It’s
    totally changed my view of “life after life after death.” I don’t mean to
    be trite or sentimental about it…

  9. Duane Arnold says:

    “And the ship went out into the High Sea and passed on into the West, until at last on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise.”

    JRR Tolkien

  10. MM says:

    Duane

    I agree it is also the nondenominational ones too. However, you have to consider even those churches base their governmental and episcopal structures mostly on traditional church models. I also argue that almost everything done in church has its roots in Roman Catholic and Orthodox tradition of government.

    In my opinion it’s not even about “sound doctrine,” people just don’t hold to the behavioral authority of organized churches. They see little benefit in those communities.

  11. Duane Arnold says:

    MM

    I’m not sure that, “everything done in church has its roots in Roman Catholic and Orthodox tradition of government…” I think what you are actually looking at is a “top down” hierarchy which allows for the exercise of authority.

    Now, the early Church certainly had leaders who exercised some degree of authority. The cost of that leadership, however, was that when persecution arose, they were the first ones taken. It was an authority based upon service – “let the greatest among you be the servant of all…” We need to rethink what leadership really means.

  12. MM says:

    Duane

    To cite the “early church” leadership and its perils really doesn’t apply to today’s church structure. In my opinion, and I believe it is valid, the structures we see today is a result of almost 1500 years of established church/political hierarchy. The Protestant churches are arguably a reaction and “protest” to that well established structure. The “evangelical” movement is, again in my opinion, a response to the Protestant traditions they left and today’s rejection of all that is just the last part of the progression.

    But, my point is about faith. We may demonstrate that faith in our church community, but that isn’t nor should it be the foundation of our faith. Faith should remain in spite of church and not because of it.

    By the way I do like your article and believe it is more than a worthy read.

    Thank you!

  13. MM says:

    Duane

    Yes you are correct, I’m looking at the “top down” as I think most do.

    Thanks

  14. Duane Arnold says:

    MM

    While I disagree with you on the importance of a faith community, i.e. church, I do take your point. Many thanks for the follow up!

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