Things I Think…

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54 Responses

  1. Nonnie says:

    Driscoll and Coy returning….we all knew that was going to happen.

    “There’s no business like show business.”

  2. Bob Sweat says:

    After I resigned is disgrace, I spent the next 2 years working at everything from selling men’s cloths to working at a pest control company. Very humbling, but good for the soul. Too bad so many just want to step off the throne for a moment only to return.

  3. Nonnie says:

    No. 7 “The flesh will give you much justification to do as you desire, but the Word will hunt you down…”

    I think the ” Spirit will hunt you down.”

  4. Bob Sweat says:

    Maybe the problem for some pastors who fall is that they have only been taught how to teach and not how to pastor. Perhaps if they were as busy serving people rather than being served, they would not have the desire to return. Just wondering.

  5. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    #4 – The Christian is to seek unity, not division…perhaps if we created a center where we could meet without rancor we could bless both church and state.”

    The Pope tried this at the Diet of Worms – not much success 🙂

  6. Em says:

    i picture Driscoll in the pit at a Jiffy Lube… have to think on Coy a bit… Roto Rooter?

    it really isn’t humorous – they need such a blessing as Bob received

    but Nonnie “nailed it” to coin a phrase used by the master of this blog

  7. Alex says:

    Agreed about Ted Haggard. Time has demonstrated that he is the real deal IMO. He actually copped to stuff and repented.

    Driscoll is embracing Celebrity Pastor Victimhood. “The devil got me! The bloggers got me! Judas’s in Mars Hill got me!”…nope, Sowing and Reaping Principle got you Mark.

  8. Alex says:

    Love your insight re: the Avengers. Agreed.

    And, agreed re: Avengers: Age of Ultron…it was even better than I thought it would be. My kids LOVE it. It does reinforce “the good” and some good basic moral principles.

  9. Ixtlan says:

    There is no business like show business…..hahaha!!

    and the great showman P.T. Barnum once said “there’s a sucker born every minute”. I think he was prophesying about American Evangelicalism.

    The prophet Roger Daltrey used to warn us in singing “meet the new boss, same as the old boss”.

    If people are going to buy into such spin from Driscoll, they deserve the “pastor” that they get. We have opted out of the holiness clause in our contract in exchange for something that we call grace, but really isn’t grace at all. It’s license. We like our leaders at bit torn but not broken, it gives us excuse to justify all the excesses in our own lives. And that hard, unbroken exterior of our faulty leaders is all the veneer we need to fool ourselves. We loved to be entertained, it is the true opiate of the church. I think if Jesus were here [in he flesh] today, He would have an equal amount of harsh condemnation for the crowds as He did the Pharisees and Scribes. Read Matthew 23 and then consider how much American Evangelicalism has play into it.

    I watched the TV show that was following Ted Haggard’s restart at St. James. I went to their website and contacted him. We had an exchange of e-mails, and I felt that he was as repentant as he could be.

  10. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    So if Mark Driscoll does reappear in the pulpit, who is the sinful narcissist – Driscoll or the people who think that they are so self important that they demand a celerity pastor?

    Driscoll is just being Driscoll – but what about those who show up day 1?

  11. Michael says:


    I had to restrain myself during the big fight scene…that was as good as it gets.
    Trey got a kick out of the fact that I liked it far more than he did… 🙂

  12. Michael says:

    Ixtlan…well said.

  13. Michael says:


    Well said as well…that’s what I’ve been trying to say for years now.
    These guys depend on us for their existence.

  14. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    You should write scathing articles about those particular sinful congregations.

  15. In some ways, Ray Johnston is to Mark Driscoll as Chuck Smith was to David Hocking.

  16. Michael says:

    MLD @ 14…I believe I have.

  17. Mark is an incredible manipulator. I’m halfway through the message. He is using his family as a shield and as a source of pity. It’s as if he knows that if he admits his gross failings he will have to acquiesce ministry, so he’s throwing everything else against the wall to see if something…anything…will stick. His message is “I forgive all of you for treating me so bad.” It should be I need forgiveness for being such a terrible shepherd.

  18. And as to whatever is true about people doing jerky things to the Driscoll family/home/whatever, those people are just as messed up.

  19. Papias says:

    MLD – Congregations = People who give money to MD.

    In spite of all that’s happened thus far, if MD were to open doors somewhere and say that he was starting a new church, there would be people there the first day to support him.

    There’s not much more to do than to remind people what kind of shepherd they listen to.

  20. Michael says:


    I wonder how much of that was true and how much of it is “enhanced” for dramatic effect…

  21. Ha…that’s I wrote “whatever is true.” I really don’t trust Mark to tell the unvarnished truth.

  22. Xenia says:

    A family member’s in-laws went to a Driscoll congregation. They joined up when all the poo was hitting the fan. I asked the relative what they thought about the whole business and they were completely clueless, claimed they didn’t know what I was talking about.

    I suspect people who don’t spend time on the internet (today’s newspaper, IMO) only heard vague rumors and were told to dismiss them as gossip. It takes a willful decision not to pay attention, I think.

  23. *that’s WHY I wrote

  24. Xenia says:

    There’s stuff I am vaguely aware of that I have made a willful decision to ignore because I fear the unvarnished truth would be too painful.

  25. Papias says:


    I doubt that a helicopter circled his house long enough to have his kids defend the family.(Back in 2014)

    The drama is only real in the mind of MD….

  26. Ixtlan says:

    I lived in earshot of Ray Johnston’s radio broadcasts. I don’t remember much of the specific content, but I remember thinking it was a bit Raycentric and cheesy at times. Granite Bay is a great place to plant a church if you want to go big.

  27. Captain Kevin says:

    One of your best Things, IMO. With just about each point, my thought was, “I wish I had said that.” I probably WILL say some, but unlike Mr. Driscoll, I will give credit where credit is due.

  28. Truth be told, to me, Mark’s message has no power to it. He’s so focused on learning how to forgive those that he feels have injured him, he can’t see how his hands are covered with blood.

  29. Xenia says:

    For all we know, Bob Coy is working as a shoe salesman somewhere, full of remorse and repentance.

  30. Papias says:

    “In April, former Mars Hill executive elder Sutton Turner published a series of reflective articles on the church’s downfall, noting that “in our modern day, a church of its size, influence and scope has never failed in such a public way, nor experienced such unprecedented circumstances.” Turner added, “Unless we study the leadership, events, decisions, fictories and failures – the whole history of Mars Hill Church – it may very well be repeated.”

  31. Michael says:

    Thank you, CK. 🙂

    Xenia, my sources have not mentioned shoes sales…

  32. Babylon's Dread says:

    Mark Driscoll is a very ill man. He is diagnosable as a real narcissist. They only view life through the lens of their own lives and never have sympathy for what their actions do to others. That is MD. He will rise again.

  33. Babylon's Dread says:


    THANK you for acknowledging the truth about Ted Haggard’s public repentance

  34. Michael says:


    We’ve been here over a decade and he’s still the only one who owned his stuff without blaming anyone else.
    That’s worthy of mention.

  35. Em says:

    “remorse and repentance.” and moving on in the Lord … praying for more of that, no matter what it takes to get us there … the most sorrowful thing of all is to miss the joy of the Lord – our strength

    we fashion our own armor out of fig leaves and attempt to hide our souls in the darkness of self justification … how sad to miss the joy

  36. filbertz says:

    Driscoll will return with a fresh coat of Teflon. Ditto for Coy. They will learn from their errors–how to avoid detection & cover their tracks more carefully. Buyers (givers) beware.

    Polarization is for sunglasses and bears.

  37. Steve says:

    It is interesting how MD conflates things in his own mind. The guy in underwear coming to his house is from more than a decade ago when he challenged the guy to a fight on the forums. His house moves were over a period of years, not just the last year. The conflict from 2007 wasn’t the precipitating factor in the last year, as that was all published at Joyful Exiles in 2012 – it was the plagiarism and Real Marriage best-seller list deal that got things started.

    Not to mention his blatant hypocrisy. He is the one who loved using the media to further his cause, but how he blames the media. He is the one who used and touted riot evangelism tactics, yet now he decries those who responded when he prodded them. He is the one who used his family (daughter blogging at his site a few years back, co-writing and interviews with his wife) for promotion, but now complains that they were in the public eye.

    Not to mention the fact that he talks about unforgiveness being a demonic foothold in your life. And yet he was pastoring Mars Hill when he, by his own admission in Real Marriage, was resentful towards his wife. Draw your own conclusion about what that means.

    Wenatchee the Hatchet has documented all this to the nth degree, but these were the things that stood out to me.

  38. filbertz says:

    what are your thoughts about the level of violence in today’s action-adventure movies? Does it reach the level of ‘gratuitous’ or ‘glorification?’ I haven’t seen the movie you referred to, but have watched numerous similar titles.

  39. Michael says:


    I’m hyper sensitive to such…there was only one brief scene that made me flinch in this one.
    It’s not as dark as the last round of Batman movies.

    Those are the only movies I’ve scene in years…(the comic book ones) so I can’t really comment on the genre as a whole.

  40. Alex says:

    Fil, hollywood has learned that if they want a true mega-hit they have to draw a broad audience…

    …an audience where moms and dads and moms and moms and dads and dads can take their boys, girls and transgender kids…w/o excluding part of their audience due to over-violence.

    One thing I’ve noticed is they are using a lot more robots lately as the bad guys. You can fight and blow up a robot and it isn’t blood and gore violence and more palatable for the kids.

  41. Em says:

    i don’t understand anyone’s appetite for gore… i just don’t – period
    when my 2 boy cousins and i used to go to the Saturday afternoon cowboy movie with the obligatory tear up the saloon scenes, my cousins used to be glued to the screen, making fists and flexing their muscles – just eating it up … okay, that i kind of get (all that went thru my head watching those scenes was, ‘somebody’s going to have to clean up that mess and it won’t be those guys). When a guy got shot he grabbed his chest, closed his eyes and fell down (not too realistic and not very violent) but serious mayhem and gore is totally different… if you enjoy it, stay away from me and mine

  42. Muff Potter says:

    @ Michael :

    I’ll probably go and see the new Avengers flick pretty soon. I gotta confess too that I can’t wait for X-Men: Apocalypse as well !

  43. Erunner says:

    Today I saw the New Avengers movie. First time I was able to go to a movie in years. The violence in a movie like this is pretty much like in the comic books I suspect. There were a few lines of a sexual nature that would go over a youngsters head but the movie was fun to watch and the few cuss words (no F- Bombs) were humorously worked into the story line.

    There is 100 times the gore on television every night compared to this movie where there was none. For that matter there was 100 times less sexuality in this movie compared to most commercials, let alone television shows themselves.

    If you look at the all time box office money makers they are dominated by non R rated movies although PG-13 can now include sex, violence, and swearing.

    Movies will often target teens to the young 20’s as these are the customers that will bring you repeat business and higher box office totals.

    There’s a ton of garbage out there but for those who like me who has enjoyed movies for close to 50 years there’s still good stuff to see. At the same time I’m aware of junk and all of the porn which is now so readily available.

    I rely on Netflix and Redbox for my entertainment and I’m currently watching a British series titled Foyle’s War which many here would enjoy greatly.

    Today I celebrated spending about ten dollars to be able to sit in a theatre to watch the good guys once more prevail in their dysfunctional way!!

  44. Xenia says:

    I like Foyle’s War too, Erunner.

  45. Em says:

    Erunner and Xenia ! i am addicted to Foyle’s War… watched it a few years back on Netlfix, caught the reruns and now the ‘after the war’ episodes on PBS

  46. brian says:

    What a great sporting event yesterday and it only cost me a buck 50. I got to see the story leading up to the bout and all the ins and outs of each fighter. It was truly an inspiration. How they trained even how they live at home. I love rocky movies. Sorry made you look. or maybe I didnt. Have a wonderful day all.

    Good thoughts Michael as usual.

  47. brian says:


    We’ve been here over a decade and he’s still the only one who owned his stuff without blaming anyone else.
    That’s worthy of mention.”

    And that is one reason so many in the industry literally loathe him personally and with a deep passion.

  48. surfer51 says:

    I took my wife to the Avengers movie Saturday night. She was not my prop though, I was hers…

    I really think the last Avenger movie was much better.

    This one was to frenetic in the action sequences, and all over the place, you couldn’t really see what was going on. You really couldn’t follow the action coherently.

    The CGI was awesome though.

    I hated the sort of “LSD” style dream sequences. They were stupid!

    I started reading cigar-chomping Nick Fury way back in early 1963, sitting cross legged on the floor of the local soda fountain near the comic book rack.

    (Fury first appeared in Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos #1 (May 1963)

    I was immediately hooked on the Howling Commandos and their invincibility.

    We had a used comic store around the corner where you could trade in 3 used comics for a new one.

    I, like most of my friends, was an avid comic book fan in my youth.

    Nuff said!

  49. WenatcheeTheHatchet says:

    Spader Stamped his way through a character that had little explicit motivation. Sure, the script had his motive spelled out but Loki’s motive was better fleshed out. The Marvel cinematic universe still has not improved on Loki for villains.

    Felt like the film was fun but not as fun as the first film and it’s highlighted both the strengths and weaknesses of Whedon. Sometimes the playful banter really worked and sometimes it undercut things. WHedon seems like a more Western and detached Rumiko Takahashi to me lately (not that I’m saying everybody go read Ranma 1/2 or Maison Ikkoku or Mermaid Forest here). The misdirection in genre cues with Hawkeye was funny but in a way it was like Whedon was just proving he could do it within the constraints of a Marvel film.

    And Thanos is still boring even when he gets out of the chair.

  50. Ixtlan says:

    “7. One of the most difficult demands of the Christian walk is that of forgiveness and reconciliation with people you would rather stay angry with and separate from.”

    It is not the wounds from the snipers, but those who are close enough to stab you in the heart. Those who have done so I only pray that I have forgiven, but I am not in a place where I care to give them a second opportunity to do it again.

  51. surfer51 says:

    Being vulnerable is part of the Christian experience…

    That is the wounded healer experience.

    Having the grace to forgive and to forget is entirely a work of Christ in us.

    If it were up to us alone we couldn’t really do it.

    The fruit of the Holy Spirit.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,…

    It is that longsuffering part that we need at many times. And it only comes from the Holy Spirit.

    I, like you, would never give ‘them a second opportunity to do it again’ were it not for the longsuffering fruit of the Holy Spirit.

    Lord knows how many times i would have wanted to up and walk away, never to look back.

    But the love of God constrains me.

    His grace is sufficient.

    And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
    Second Corinthians Twelve Verse Nine

    Apostle Paul goes on in verse Ten…

    Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

    May you be truly made strong Ixtlan to serve as the representative of Christ in your world.

  52. Em says:

    the goal is not simply to endure the wounds, but to stand and that is difficult hence the need for a helmet, a breastplate, a shield, a sharp sword, a sturdy belt and good shoes, eh? 🙂 Ephesians 6:12-17

  53. Philippe says:

    Not sure how you went from Driscoll to Coy, but it’ll be interesting to see how it plays out in a post-Chuck Smith world.

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