Things I Think…
1. K.P. Yohannon and Gospel for Asia need to contact Matt Chandler and get his template for how you deal with issues in the Body Of Christ. We now how two templates…one biblical as practiced by Chandler in his crisis and one used by Mark Driscoll in his.
One leads to repentance and restoration, the other leads to the destruction of the organization and the reputation of the leader.
Social media has now matured to the point that using Driscoll’s template will not end well for GFA.
2. Calvary Chapels have been cash cows for GFA…it would be an act of responsible stewardship for them to acknowledge the current issues as much as they’ve promoted the work.
3. When you start your own church and name yourself “Archbishop”, I’m going to have a difficult time hearing your sermon on humility…
4. No one is questioning (at least at this point) the work of GFA. The question that has to be asked is whether God’s work is being done God’s way. “Success” is not always the measure of such.
5. The story of Rachel Dolezal, the very Caucasian woman who considers herself black is a parable for our times. “Truth” is subjective and a slave to personal preference, self is the only authority heeded, and we are all our own God. That is part of the parable…the rest of it is that we demand that others acknowledge our lies to be truth as well. For the end of the parable, I refer you to the ancient story of “The Emperors New Clothes”. When people find out that they are naked there might be a run on clothing stores…
6. Elisabeth Elliot has passed away…
7. There was a rodeo in Central Oregon last week that began with a strong Christian prayer followed by the National Anthem…with the unspoken part being that if you objected to either the door swung both ways to the grounds. As it should be…tolerance means that the majority has rights too…
8. Interaction with the world needs to be constantly informed by the truth that “while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us”. not “get saved and be like me”.
9. Marijuana will be legal in Oregon next month…opening up a whole new set of issues for pastors. It’s going to get interesting…
10. Now that social media has grown up in the church maybe we can “catch” people doing kingdom work and write reports on them as well…
#8: AMEN and AMEN.
Funny…. I hadn’t heard about #5 until the the Facepants pundits had started in…. funny how those who support transgender issues all seem to have such a problem with this. This is nothing new, really, except the lying part. Living in Portland, I see white boys and girls emulating black culture all the time (go to the mall in the city center) I do get the distinction of the deception, but isn’t that the same as a husband and father lying to cover his “true inner self”? (not that I agree or disagree, this is just an observation)
As for #9, I see not much difference between that and alcohol. Not that I will partake, I just don’t have a problem with it so much. To me the problem for pastors is giving one a pass (for the ones who do) and not to the other. I hope they also do some research and have an informed opinion….. Just my two cents.
and I do see stories about people doing good all the time. (#10) There is just not the driving emotion behind anger to get the good stories out.
I’m living in the epicenter of all things Rachel Dolezal. Our small hometown paper, the humble CDA Press broke the story. It is a tragic tale of delusion.
#5 set off my “give us this day our daily outrage” alarm, so I tried to ignore it as fast as I could. 😉
#8 is so critical. We believers need the Gospel NOW as much as the “world”. I realize this is not news here, but this must be communicated to our siblings in Christ as well as the world, over, and over, and over. Thanks for Good thought.
I think social media as the ecclesiastical police is the worst idea ever.
I met with some readers in Baltimore this week. The Calvary Temple folks told me that their pastor, at one point, called himself the High Priest. I asked them what he was smoking. Now, I am really wondering given #9. 🙂
#5- what’s the big deal? identity crisis seems to be the flavor of the month and turns up in much worse ways than hers… guess it’s made her parents mad… if she were my daughter, i’d just ignore it and hope for her mental health to come out okay… I’m only one sixteenth Native American, but sometimes i feel very “Indian”… not conflictedly so, tho… i don’t think… dunno, tho
#7- Bravo… it makes up for the time we overnighted in Pendleton and got a surprise when a different kind of rodeo came to town
Rest in Peace, dear Elizabeth, you and your Jim were role models for my generation of Christian young people
RIP Elizabeth Elliot. What an amazing woman. I remember her speak at a conference for college kids years ago.
Such an inspiration. She will be missed
Assuming that whatever is left of the GFA conversation will migrate onto this new thread, let me give one more specific that has bothered me. GFA has admitted to a practice where they were having groups of staff members and discipleship students transport large amounts of cash in envelopes on trips from the U.S. to India. Turns out the manner in which they were doing this was illegal by U.S. law and possibly Indian law, too. This was one of the specifics I asked the GFA rep about in my email and phone conversation. He told me that GFA had been doing this for a couple years but stopped doing it when they became aware or it was made known to them that the practice may be illegal. He also said that they had stopped this practice at least a couple months before Warren Throckmorton first reported on it (which was the middle of May). However, GFA told Throckmorton when he first asked about it and reported on it that they had not done anything illegal. GFA said the same to their staff at a recorded staff meeting in May where they said what they had done was not illegal but that they were going to stop the practice for the sake of the staff. Additionally, Throckmorton says that his sources tell him GFA was still performing this practice in April, which would be less than the “at least 2 months” figure I was given. So somewhere along the way here, GFA is not getting their story straight. It certainly puts a hit on GFA’s credibility.
“You are loved with an everlasting love; that’s what the Bible says–and underneath you are His everlasting arms”. E. Eliot
I always sat up straighter after hearing the intro to her radio program.
somewhere, i came across those reports, also, Kevin… FWIW
Good for the CDA press to expose RD for her race baiting. The group of a few people responsible for the negative perception of the CDA/SPO area were largely gone by the time she was born. She was promoting that stereotype 40 years later, good riddance! Praying for the Dolezal family.
Elizabeth Elliot’s message “Do the next thing.” (discerning the will of God for your life) One of the best messages I have heard.
Correction, the group was in the CDA area longer than I recalled. Regardless they’re long gone now.
Nonnie, “Do the Next Thing” has been my life’s motto ever since I heard E.Elliot give that talk!
Xenia, me too!
There is a strong anti-Christ spirit against us and against the church. We better begin to find ways to speak blessing and life over one another.
Elizabeth E. How many of us would go and live with the very men who killed our husband or wife. If any of you haven’t read her story and the series of accounts from the legacy of those missionaries you will never get or understand the true love of God.
The woman who lied about being black. She stole from others in the same way Bruce Jenner has. And if we don’t get that then maybe we’re more like her and him than we’d like to admit.
The rest are all good points.
#8 prompted me to look up the link to the sermon by Billy Graham’s grandson that i couldn’t locate a couple weeks ago… http://liberate.org/video/?contributor_id=43
it is #5 in the “Unstoppable” series
and i wish Pastor Dread would elaborate a bit on his #21 … i think i agree
i don’t know what i’m missing on the reports of the Spokane woman – she did her work, what did she steal? their color? that’s kind of sad for her, but …?…
The Spokane lady’s story is a fine example of a bunch of nothing, in my opinion.
Although, as Dread noted, Jenner pretends to be a woman and he’s hailed as a hero. The Spokane lady pretends to be black and she’s excoriated as a fraud.
People of legitimate race deserve any recognition or benefit of that race. This woman took that recognition and a position which more than likely required her being of black descent and that is known as stealing. She is more than a fraud, she came and robbed from the legitimate people and where have we heard that before (think text)?
The same goes for Bruce Jenner. He was born a man, lived a man’s life with all the benefits, responsibilities and rewards and now he wants to be a woman? Also robbing from legitimate humans born as women, with all the benefits, responsibilities and rewards of being a woman.
It might also be interesting to note both of these creations of God have promoted their theft (fraud) during a cultural time when the negative consequences of their actions are few. It wasn’t that long ago when many black people hid their race and stories were told about women doing the same (Yeshiva Boy for one).
I don’t get why our culture can’t just call it like it is? Wrong and perverted.
Regarding the Spokane Lady. The more info that comes out she appears to be a huge fraud. A teller of tales. She may have performed well in some her tasks, but her life is full of deceptions.
When I first came on the PP, I had just left a church where the pastor lacked integrity, but many in the congregation chose to overlook the lapses because he was “a really good preacher.”
I just couldn’t reconciling speaking ability with a host of lapses in character.
Living here in the Spokane area, the litany of falsehoods and hypocrisies are being exposed at a rapid pace. Bizarre lies she told her students. Copying artwork and presenting it as original. Potentially faking hate crimes against herself. She is a tragedy unfolding.
If you define the work that GFA does as what it does with the donations it receives, I’m afraid that No. 4 is no longer true. Both Warren and I have questioned the practice of directing donor dollars to Believers Church. I am waiting on an answer from GFA Australia to the seeming mismatch between the purposes for which they solicit money and the use of that money in India.
#9, no doubt. What if someone in your church opens a marijuana dispensary business, makes some good money and wants to tithe 10% to the church? Would you accept it?
em @11… my thoughts exactly about Elizabeth Elliot. I was always eager to read Elizabeth Eliot’s books and Edith Schaeffer’s, as well.
It’s a legal business and I see no reason not to.
Going to be really interesting to see how churches react to what is essentially now legal in our state, churches that have been vehemently opposed to pot use in the past, but have shown tolerance towards moderate alcohol use, etc.
Several dispensaries have already opened here in my town. I think the small shops will completely squeezed by the corporate infused companies, eventually.
“…wants to tithe 10% to the church? Would you accept it?”
Yes, if it is legal.
I also would/will handle it in the same way as the sale and use of alcohol products, no promotion or encouragement, but also no condemnation. While legal is it beneficial? Each person has to vote their conscience on these matters.
Of course what if it was an abortion clinic or a legal prostitution service… Nope, different categorys. But of course each church is free to interpret scripture in the manner they feel is correct.
i hate pot, hate, hate hate it… medically okay – those are my opinions and i’m sticking to em
10% of the profit? there’ll probably be churches that will have Wed pot nites the way things are headed
Been super busy today, but just adding my comment about Elizabeth Elliott….and how for me also, “Do the next thing, (even if the next thing is a sink full of dishes)”…. has guided me more times than I can remember. I also loved the “Don’t go out the door, with a Bible under your arm, if you haven’t swept under the bed”.
I loved her encouragement for the ministry of Home Making and the necessity of living one’s true faith at home (sweeping under the bed) and not just a public show (Bible under the arm)…. I heard her say once that she learned the great doctrines of the Faith from singing hymns as a child, which has inspired me to read, sing ad love hymns.
Loved her. Admired her. She is on my very short heroine list. A lasting legacy of inspiration. Twice widowed, thrice married, the utmost of propriety. Deathly serious about her love for Jesus.
Thank you Sister Elliott. Home at last.
God bless Lars for his sweet care and kindness to her in her frail last years.
“But of course each church is free to interpret scripture in the manner they feel is correct.”
Say what??? First men can declare themselves women, whites can claim they are black and now taking the lead in this post modern world, a world where words have no meanings, churches can interpret scripture any old way they want.
Welcome to the family Mormons, JWs, Oneness Pentecostals, Jonestown folks along with the Branch Davidians.
It’s true whether you or I like it or not, all of humanity is given the right to do what they want with the written scriptures. We disagree with how parts of the text should be interpreted and it’s how the Lutheran church got started, another group’s interpretation. So why would you be surprised?
I know you and I think we have the best interpretations, but so do all the others.
Then you agree that all the groups I mentioned should be given place in Christianity. Aside from what you and I may think is true – there is not right or wrong when it comes to Biblical thought.
As you know, I have no problem telling a group of churches that what they teach and how they interpret scripture makes them none Christian. Just one of my many flaws. 😉
“…all of humanity is given the right to do what they want with the written scriptures.”
This is not true – there are examples in the Bible of folks who thought they could change the scripture to their own “way” and thought it just as equal to approach God without the mediation of blood. Now, they may have had the capacity to do so, but God’s actions showed that they did not have the right.
We all have the right and along with the right comes the consequences of that right.
They were told not to just one thing in the garden and were given the right how they were to live with that one thing. They could have chosen the tree of life first and yet they didn’t.
Booted from the garden and the right to eat of the tree of life pulled from them.
We have the right to free speech and to suffer the consequences when that right is abused.
I guess we interpret what a right is differently.
Right – but that doesn’t mean that you can continue to be called the church.
See, your first comment was that the church had this right – now you have difted to all of humanity.Big change in perspective.
A Muslim can change scriptures, as they have, to claim that Jesus did not die on the cross, but in fact it was Judas. A Christian or a church not only can’t but they don’t have right.
No I didn’t change a thing. God gave the right to all, including His people, the church.
Why are there RCC, Anglicans, EO, Lutherans, Calvinist, Pentecostals, evangelicals, preterist, partial, pre, post, sprinklers, dunkers, drinkers, tea-totaled … Dude do you want more or do you only see your interpretation as the best and most correct? Which means all the rest are more wrong in theirs.
No we, all of us including the church, have been given the right by God and the associated consequences for those rights. But your interpretation seems to see it different. That’s ok with me and others, by the way.
May you have Shalom and a healthy day today.
I’m tired and you’re again trying to twist words.
I’m leaving you with this and maybe you can explain it to all the readers.
When does an interpretation of the text remove a group from being called the church? At what point are they so wrong they cease to be called His?
Go to it.
When they deny the truth.
“Marijuana will be legal in Oregon next month…opening up a whole new set of issues for pastors.”
Yes. Maybe we will actually hear/read some convincing biblical arguments as to why we should not use it. You won’t be breaking the law, or disobeying the civil authorities, if you do.
Which truth is it which makes one part of the church or not? Which one is “the truth” is another way of asking it?
BTW I would agree Muslims, Mormons and many others are not a part of His church. But I know many who would include RCC in that list.
Be blessed today.
Might be the quietest day ever on PP. I know Michael is ill but I hear crickets…
So I finally got to watch the Rachel D interview on the TODAY show.
First off, Matt Lauer isn’t a great interviewer.
Second, Ms. Dolazel has a kindred spirit in Mark Driscoll.
it is sad when a person like this woman or Driscoll misuse their intelligence and gifts… how much is just plain old sin nature and ambition, i don’t know, but till sad… but something is wrong when such behavior doesn’t make one want to run and hide when found out… dunno
BD… crickets are good 🙂
shoot, i’ve been correcting my writing all day, you’d think i could write one sentence here where subject and verb agree…