Things I Think
1. I’ve written extensively over the years about the “no talk” rule. It basically is a Mafioso type agreement in which you agree never to implicate a ministry or minister in any sort of wrong doing, even if you have knowledge of that wrong doing. Such talk is always defined as “gossip” and sinful.
“Gossip may be defined as saying anything negative, whether true or not, to anyone about the pastor or about the ministry. If there are things wrong, take it to the Lord in prayer. Tell absolutely no one, including your spouse. Do not repeat anything that would cast aspersion on the ministry in any way. Doing so dishonors Christ and His cause. But, you say, what do you do if there are real problems? Pray about them and forget them. “
Let me correct this.
Failure to inform people of corrupt or abusive ministers or organizations is not holy, it is being complicit in their sins and is cowardice.
It is abandoning the job of being a shepherd and preferring the approval of men to the the praise of God.
It is wrong.
2. The one who picks up the cross to follow Jesus will be crushed beneath it if they are not in a community that bears each others burdens…
3. The pastor who wounds someone so deeply that they leave the assembly of believers may have committed spiritual murder…
4. The social police are not happy with just telling us what we should eat and drink…now they want to tell us what should be attractive to us in terms of the opposite sex. They do this by posting pictures of naked or near naked people that may be culturally “unattractive” and telling us how beautiful they are. Everybody is attractive to somebody and not attractive to others. Demanding that we change those perceptions on demand is like telling me to give up pork chops, Coca Cola, and redheads. Ain’t gonna happen…
5. A question for those who think it’s a sin to speak out against abuse or corrupt brethren in the church… when you see other types of crime or abuse happening do you ignore it and trust God will handle it? If one of these “pastors” slapped your child or your wife would you turn away and “leave it to the Lord”? Just asking…
6. I’m not sure why, but I prefer going to a flea market much more than a mall…
7. Call me what you will, but I think young people listening to a steady diet of rap lyrics can only lead to terrible consequences…
8. Thankful today for Rick Warrens work on mental illness and how the church can deal with it… people like Dave Hunt did much damage to broken people in this area.
9. I wish I was as decent a person and as good a writer as Matt B. Redmond….
10. I’ll say this again…God doesn’t see things as left and right, liberal or conservative. The biblical categories are just and unjust, righteous and unrighteous. That’s how a biblical worldview assesses political and social issues.
Mucho agreement with all the above. Want to comment on item 8..for all the Dave Hunt’s out there (i.e., people in the public eye who are abusive towards Christians suffering mental illness), there are probably thousands of lay people who would do the same if afforded the opportunity…they would be quick to judge and attempt to cast out the alleged demons in a believer’s life. This is a sad reality. As one who is close to more than one Christian who take meds, it angers me that they are still in hiding because the church at large is basically in the dark ages still regarding mental illness.
Yes, THE CHURCH IS IN THE DARK AGES REGARDING MENTAL ILLNESS!!!
Re: item number 10. When I peruse comments here and other blogs, and I start to see someone talk in terms of liberal/conservative or left/right, I stop reading and go elsewhere.
Re: 1, 3, and 5…I will say it again Michael…KEEP STIRRING THE POT!!! The more we can push these abusers into the hands of the authorities, they more the church will learn that they can’t do these things anymore (at least I hope so).
Re: 6: I hear ya. Used to live in Minnesota and frequented the Mall of America, and now live in Georgia, and all malls are basically the same crap. Much more interesting stuff at flea markets (and antique stores in my opinion)!
Thank you, Dan. 🙂
I have no intention of backing off…
I am on a plane for Minnesota tonight. I forgot all about the Mall of America! I shall avoid it!
2. “The one who picks up the cross to follow Jesus will be crushed beneath it if they are not in a community that bears each others burdens…”
I LOVE the value you place on the local church. So precious. So true.
And am I correct that you’ve been posting MORE on that value and importance in the last 6 months than before, Michael?
I may be writing more about it or writing about it differently than before.
The thing that my critics have never understood is that my passion for justice and righteousness in the church comes from a love of the church.
“….. If there are things wrong, take it to the Lord in prayer. … Do not repeat anything that would cast aspersion on the ministry in any way. … if there are real problems? Pray about them and forget them. ”
whoever wrote that is pure as driven snow or doesn’t believe in the power of prayer… 🙂
Alex’s bulldogged determination for long delayed justice and Michael’s passion for the integrity of God’s Church …?… might just be fueled by the prayers of some lowly pew-sitter who followed that instruction to shut your mouth and pray … dunno, tho, do i?
That’s a great perspective!
i found that directive quoted in #1 absolutely out of line and offensive… and can’t help wondering if, indeed, it just might have backfired on the sneaky little egotistical schemers…
now i know that i don’t know them or their motives, but that’s how they look to me…
That rule is now unspoken, but still practiced as if it were Holy Scripture…
oh, the no talk rule.
Some of us were blasted recently in a discussion group because we were talking about some recent questionable activities and actions on the part of another ministry. I have come to the conclusion that those who try to suppress such conversations of others may in fact have something in themselves that they will not deal with.
Jesus said that which is spoken in the dark will be heard in the light, so we should all be careful. No one should suppress others who are speaking with a clear conscience. To avoid such issues personally is one thing; I guess we all are entitled at times. Wisdom picks her battles. Hopefully we are not sticking our head in the sand. But to demand that others cease from such discussion is controlling, judgmental and a form of censorship. Rather than avoidance, one should be open to availing oneself to the possibility of being used of God to either correct an issue or at least prevent the cancer from spreading in their own world. Both sides of the coin have their problems , yet I would rather be free to discuss rather than live under subjection of being silenced.
BTW, I left that discussion group.
Amen and amen!
Thx for sharing. Just a thought, whoever is able to blast a discussion group so freely as you mentioned would be this same person be willing to rebuke this discussion group publicly before all? Something to ponder………….If a man is willing to blast another group before a Holy God in private but they are unwilling to do it before men …my question then is “whom are they fearing?
and that’s why I love Francisco…. 🙂
“Wisdom picks her battles”… got me thinking, both about gossip and discretion… gossip is about as adult as thumb sucking … i’ve done both, outgrew one and doing my best to shed the other… gossip never comes out of a good heart attitude – IMHO
but in agreement that not everything that we witness can be overlooked, either… so amen to ‘wisdom’ – to discernment
Xenia (#4), I actually have to admit that the MOA does have a few unique stores, especially if you are a guy…a few…but most of the stores at the MOA are just the same as at every other mall in the U.S.
I’m guilty of breaking the no talk Rule in CC, and am now ostracized. Now the things I used to say about people who criticized the pastor or the Moses Model or CC are said about me: “He always had a spirit of divisiveness” ,”He just can’t come under authority” “He has pride issues” “He always had a root of bitterness.”
God forgive me.
Do not lose heart…we need you.
There is a spiritual element of mental illness that I seldom see either psychologists or pastors admit. While they may think it’s all in the head or the emotions, there is also the dark element of the enemy who will take advantage of every weakness in the thoughts and hearts of those who suffer. Where do you think that fear, intimidation, shame, anxiety and the likes comes from? Certainly they are not of God. He said he did not give us a spirit of fear, but of love, power, and a sound mind. That scripture alone ought to set some people on edge.
There are many other spiritual elements to mental illness that no therapist and no drug on this planet can fix. I know because I’ve been there and this whole pushing people to psychologists or psychiatrists who know nothing about spiritual warfare makes me very, very sad. There is a battle to be won and there are also wounds to be healed and a mind to be renewed and it can be done. Both sides of the current argument are only partly right and both are partly wrong. It’s not one or the other. Neither is fully right.
You can overcome mental illness. I will stand up and admit that I have done it and with the help of God was able to overcome the darkness and the pains, traumas, and the mind I had that was so warped. I also had the help of counselors. And many praying Christians. And at one point, drugs, which were short lived for me because they stole the life from me.
Everyone is entitled to fight this battle any way they want. Or believe what they want. But God is so big. So big. Bigger than anyone believes when it comes to mental illness.
#1 is unspoken scripture at GFA, too.
Well worth twenty minutes of your time. Dr. Langberg encapsulates the condition of the Church and challenges us to peer into the “dungeons of our own hearts.”
My reading on #4. They are trying to address the problem of the mainstream only seeing some people as attractive. However, they have failed to recognize the problem of seeing someone’s value only by their attractiveness. Solve that problem, and the first one is not a problem either.
The problem of #1 comes about partly because people confuse the organised church with the body of Christ and forget which is more important.
Number 4 pisses me off. You can find a million articles, blog posts, YouTube videos, etc…of excessively obese women in bikinis being hailed as beautiful and courageous. Whenever I make the comment that, while I do believe people should not be subject to cruel taunting or mockery that I also am not going to pretend that being that overweight is biologically healthy or normal someone will always come back and tell me basically that I’m being mean. But I think I’m just being truthful.
An FYI regarding Mike Kestler. The web site for The River Christian Fellowship in Twin Falls, Idaho now shows Kestler once again as the senior pastor (shown on their “New Here?” link on the web site).
What’s even worse then just speaking up is —— a woman speaking up. Then all hell has broken loose.
Regarding the no talk rule, what’s even worse then just speaking up is —— a woman speaking up. Then all hell has broken loose.