Things I Think

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165 Responses

  1. Babylon's Dread says:

    Blog lives matter!

  2. Nonnie says:

    So many of these are exactly. Number 5….wow….tears. This is “make your own application” worthy.

  3. Dallas says:

    As a relatively young straight white Christian male, I don’t even know where to start on my persecution complex. There are so many avenues to explore.

  4. Michael says:


    #5 was when I wanted to go back to bed and stay there hoping the prophecy wonks are right.

  5. Michael says:


    It’s pretty easy to do.
    I prefer the concept of “exile”…strangely enough, it’s also the biblical concept…

  6. Michael says:

    I’ll just leave this here…how people who actually live on the border feel about border issues…

  7. Dallas says:

    Michael, I like that term as well, but I think it is a lot harder for people to get their heads around because they have this image of the good old days when they weren’t in exile. Not true, we have always been singing the Lord’s songs in a strange land.

  8. Michael says:


    I completely agree.
    We better get used to it,however…

  9. Jean says:


    Very good line up of thoughts today.

    As a nation we’re expert at scapegoating. I hope the exile you’rd promoting includes repentance and responsibility for being part of solutions (i.e., Christian solutions).

    Many of the public Evangelical leaders have utterly failed their followers. Folks are going to have to look elsewhere for the Gospel.

  10. Dallas says:

    On a lighter note, Google very rarely fails to come through for me.

  11. Michael says:


    None of us have a full picture of anything, as we’re all limited by the environment we live in.

    Having said that… I don’t see much of an effect here of the Gospel community that lives here.

    That may just be my own blindness, but it seems to me that we are no longer ambassadors for Christ, but echoes of each others political and cultural beliefs.

    We need to be missionaries where we are…and I don’t run into many.

  12. Owen says:

    “The root of this seems to be a rejection of authority…..”

    Agreed. I’ve raised one teenager so far, still have two to go. As parents we had long, difficult talks with the first one about police officers. Our daughter had been out with friends who were leading her to believe that most cops routinely abuse their power. We convinced her that maybe she needs new friends. The police force is there for a very good reason.

    I am of the opinion that respect for authority has to start being taught at home, at a very young age. And I don’t see that happening much anymore. I work in a large retail store, and the “parents” I see now have absolutely zero control or influence on their young ones. It scares me to think where those kids will be in a few more years.

    Very interesting article on the border issues, too. I wonder if Trump has read it? ๐Ÿ˜‰

  13. Em ... again says:

    1- i find it interesting that when we’re talking from a political point of view – it is Donald Trump that has caused all the present foment in almost everyone’s view… yet, i have listened to the lady on the other side affirming the downtrodden and warning them that only she is here to save them from the privileged, wealthy bullies… what that has done – as i see it, of course – is to build the resentment into a rage by those “underserved” and persecuted…
    2- i wish we could tattoo that on the forehead of every talking head on TV – don’t you feel that they are almost celebrating when they cover the mayhem that has broken out?
    3- i’m not sure that our job is to be agents of reconciliation (can one reconcile good and evil?) … lots of questions come to mind on that one…
    4- the prophesy wonks are right up there with the talking heads – chickens are smarter than people as none listened to henny penny as i recall…
    5- is there such a thing as a cat with a conscience? ๐Ÿ™‚ poor creature
    6- hard to parent one and hard to be one – amen
    7- and those letters are so thorough
    8- a global economy? here come the camels with the spices and we shall have stew tonight
    9- how does one witness to a scattered brain, assaulted on all sides by chaos? May God the Holy Spirit work for us
    10- the country has most definitely changed for the worse since the 1950s… who would have thought that we could overcome so much and, yet, find ourselves in such upheaval now? it’s hard to have a war when you don’t know where to point your guns… it will have an interesting outcome… when i clean house it always looks like i’m making things worse until… finally i finish and order is evident again… pray, pray harder for a good outcome

    think i’ll go get my Revelation material and meditate on those letters

  14. Michael says:


    Yesterday, the “adults” were actively trying to get my boy to rebuke me as he too has a bent toward believing the police are routinely abusive.

    My first thought was to stop going to the skatepark…but that is abandoning our mission.

    I may do it anyway…

  15. Owen says:

    Dallas – LOL!! Sraight out of Trump’s wardrobe?? ๐Ÿ˜‰

  16. Michael says:


    Trump has simply taken advantage of yen years of media that has made people angry and afraid.
    It is a brilliant strategy, but the end is going to be awful.

    We are most definitely called to be ambassadors for Christ and agents of reconciliation…between God and man and between men.

    I would argue that is our primary responsibility in the kingdom of God.

  17. Michael says:

    โ€œAll this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.โ€
    (2 Corinthians 5:18โ€“20 ESV)

  18. Owen says:

    Michael, I am disturbed and very sorry to hear that….. and that just proves your earlier points. I’m sitting here shaking my head and muttering a few very unchristian words regarding those “adults”. Do they realize they are perpetuating the rejection of authority?? Do they care??

    I have to watch my attitude, here – I’m not feeling like respectfully engaging a fellow citizen.

  19. Em ... again says:

    #14 – that is a great illustration of the problem – any enforcement (of anything) by anyone with delegated authority is now considered “abuse” …
    sometimes even stupid laws have to be respected, i.e., i think i’m smart enough to cross the street anywhere i choose when i’m downtown; i can tell whether there’s a car coming or not… but i still walk all the way to the crosswalk because it’s about more than just me … in some cases ๐Ÿ™‚

  20. Michael says:

    As to the border poll… anyone who actually studies the matter in depth knows that this is how it has been for many years.
    Those numbers surprise none of us who study such things.

    It will be ignored, or discounted as liberal, or slandered in any form that will make it go away.

    Few will wonder if the narrative they have been fed is the real problem…

  21. Em ... again says:

    @16 – yes, i agree with your observation as our job is to bring men to reconciliation with their Creator and we are to be peace makers… but still… what we can do, what we can overcome will not bring peace to the world in time, will it?

  22. Michael says:


    We cannot bring peace to the world, but we can being the Prince of Peace to the fore of these disputes.

    The thing we forget is that Christ conquered through suffering and death, not the exercise of power.
    As I read the Gospels and those seven letters, I see us called to emulate Him, not to seek the defeat of our enemies by pursuing a political agenda.

    We conquer through love, suffering, and sacrificial living to the point of death.

    i didn’t want to sign up for that either…I was drafted.

  23. Em ... again says:

    it isn’t the border town that is the problem, is it? it is simplistic at best to think the fence idea is going to solve anything, but an unemployment problem…

    that said, we do have a serious problem with bad guys who have crept into our country and some go through customs at airports to get here… recently i learned of a good, solid, hard working, undocumented Latino who has been here for 20 years… he was working in a very upscale (as in $1,000,000 is chump change to the residents) and he was challenged as to whether the cartels could get into the community… he said, “they’re already here…” and there was more, but not good for internet consumption

  24. Em ... again says:

    “As I read the Gospels and those seven letters, I see us called to emulate Him, not to seek the defeat of our enemies by pursuing a political agenda.” amen and AMEN

  25. Michael says:


    That cartels that are here (and they are) are here because Americans are working with them in order to make money.
    They’ve been here a long time…but they were invited.
    There is no one I know that is for immigration reform that is in favor of doing anything but imprisoning or deporting them…and their American co-workers with them.

  26. Em ... again says:

    Michael, point taken… isn’t it interesting that we see willful blindness on all sides? the older i get the more i see how infused the whole race is with denial – almost as if it’s a defense mechanism in our genes

  27. Em ... again says:

    Michael, what i don’t feel that i should relate here is the information this man related on just how deep the Cartel power runs in the U.S. i am really concerned for the good guys trying to enforce our civil law and order today… we are just on the brink of all h breaking loose… sadly, that doesn’t mean that the Church goes out does it? just because the America i was blessed to live in is eroding in front of our eyes

  28. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “We conquer through love, suffering, and sacrificial living to the point of death.”

    This is what individuals do, but this is not God’s charter for governments

  29. Em ... again says:

    i should say – and can – that the last thing the drug cartels want to see happen is a breakdown of this nation – we are the goose that lays those golden eggs – for now

  30. Michael says:


    If anyone wants to know the extent of cartel involvement here and the complicity of both the U.S. and Mexican governments in it, the information is easily available.

    Read any of Bowden’s books and it’s all there in black and white.

    That is not, however, a “border issue”.

    You can build that wall as high as you want and there will still be massive cartel grows in the Rogue River National Forest tended by unemployed loggers and visited by the boss when he feels like it.

  31. Michael says:

    “This is what individuals do, but this is not Godโ€™s charter for governments”

    It’s what Christians individually and the church as a body is called to.

    Both entities may be addressing a common problem,but we are called to address biblically.

  32. Judy says:

    As the nation crumbles, it’s hard to focus on individuals who need Christ rather than the country that needs cleaning up. I think this is where the church goes sideways, sometimes. The focus is the country, not on the guy next door, or sitting next to us on the train, or in the next office. Our impact has to be person to person and as the church goes underground, it probably will. Right now, too many church people are trying to use politics to save their good life, rather than preaching the gospel to the lost. They focus on changing legislation for two big sins, rather than reaching out to sinners. It’s all screwy. All the way around.

  33. Michael says:


    I concur. ๐Ÿ™‚

  34. Owen says:

    Well said, Judy.

  35. Em ... again says:

    Judy’s word pretty much sums it up for the Church … amen
    even here, where everyone who comes to post seem to care deeply for our Lord and His Kingdom, our attention, while not sidetracked, seems to focus on the evil around us… it is hard to stay – forgive the evangelical terminology – Christ-centered

    God keep

  36. Babylon's Dread says:

    Things I Would Bet On

    1-Trump will not get elected. He will do well to garner 46% and only a massive Hillary meltdown will prevent it. The census numbers forbid it and he is an idiot. Lots of conservatives will risk Hillary to avoid the fool.
    2-Hillary will be our President and we will hate her more than ever and she will lie with greater impunity. Our whole nation will lie more joyfully with her as our leader.
    3-Prophecy wonks will be in apocalyptorgy-mode
    4-The divides in our nation will widen and blood will flow by gun violence for a long season.
    5-Radical Islam will swallow every nation they influence, Europe will be imperiled by their own liberal inclusive policies. Radical Islam loves liberal democracy and dictators both give them new territories to gorge upon.
    6-The Supreme Court will continue to make law since Congress is so inept at it.
    7-Somehow we will see that the kingdom of God increases in the midst of it all and we will have new devils to dread.

    I am always pessimistic about us and optimistic about Him… yes pretty much.

  37. Owen says:

    And even if a country is to be “cleaned up” is not really for us to say, neither is it really in our power, methinks….
    But we do know that hearts can be changed.

  38. Owen says:

    BD – your last sentence in #36 said it all.

  39. Michael says:


    I would probably bet with you…except…I think Trump can win because he instinctively has tapped into the fears and grief of a large segment of the electorate.

    3-7 are inevitable no matter which wins…through I believe more violence will follow Clinton to the White House.

    Christians can really not embrace either person with integrity…so maybe we should focus on making sure as many of our parishioners as possible live to vote again.

  40. Michael says:

    I have a question.

    Franklin Graham had a prayer meeting on Facebook to “pray for the nation”.

    What does this mean?
    What exactly are we praying for?
    What does a positive answer to this prayer look like?

  41. Babylon's Dread says:


    I do not know
    I think they are praying for moral majority type stuff and evangelism
    No one knows… but whatever the outcome we are likely to say ‘this is that’

  42. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I think you all misread Facebook and Twitter. Everyone feigns anger, fear and upset – when we all just play. Facebook and Twitter are like fantasy games and should not be taken seriously.

    Look at this link. Mike Pense goes to Chili’s and FB and Twitter go nuts.
    Now do any of you think anyone REALLY cares where the man eats? They are playing a game.

  43. Em ... again says:

    #40- pray for the nation – it can’t hurt – we don’t have to pray according to Franklin’s outline, do we? ๐Ÿ™‚

    i am going to vote for Trump because it’s either that or not vote at all… i’d rather vote for a barking dog than a venomous snake in the grass… gosh, those are very uncharitable descriptions … and not very good choices either… maybe i’ll not vote…

  44. Anne says:

    If I were a gambling person, had a good bankroll to wager, and years left to live, I would wager with great confidence that the war on terror is virtually identical to the war on drugs except deeper in its scope of deception

  45. Michael says:


    This isn’t just Facebook and Twitter.
    The book I have repeatedly referenced speaks to this as well.
    Last of all, I pastor a church when many of these same concerns are brought to the fore often.

    I’d rather agree with you…

  46. Michael says:


    There may be some truth to that…though I don’t see how anyone can deny the threat of radical Islam.
    I’ve spoken to too many boots on the ground over there to even begin to deny that…

  47. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael – people can have concerns – but that does not mean they live in rage.

    Even your book, nothing is new – white people have always been uncomfortable around “foreigners” – always.

    See, white American Christian numbers aren’t shrinking – the “others” are increasing. And we continue to be uncomfortable.

  48. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I like the article I posted about Pense eating at Chili’s – the website called it – The Wrath of Twitter.
    Games. Who can express the most wrath / outrage wins

  49. Anne says:

    Yet the Saudis are our business partners, in corporations, in charities ( both sides of the aisle) despite having the same religion, barbarian justice and hum rights records. Both wars ( drugs/ terror)are basically about power, profit and the greed for both at any cost – tugging at whatever ideological strings and fears on either side that keep the game running. Fear being the most powerful.

  50. Michael says:


    Our numbers are shrinking.
    To me the most seriously bad news is in the numbers at the younger end of the spectrum…we’re losing the battle for the mind share with those under 35…

  51. Michael says:


    I think that speaks to how incredibly complex all these issues are…that we try to discuss with tweets and sound bites.

  52. Em ... again says:

    Anne, i think you sense something … there is so much chicanery and plays for power and dominance behind the scenes and on a level so high above the common man that we never see – but what the devil will be able to accomplish thru this distorted O.T. religion of the Muslims remains to be seen
    like the old song – apologies for the evangelical offense again – “On Christ the solid Rock I stand …”(sometimes, it’s hard to keep my balance, tho) ๐Ÿ™‚

  53. Anne says:

    Another reason I wish I was younger and stronger – a subject that has impacted my family many decades. I research now as time energy and heart allow and as you said Michael- way too complicated for tweets, and random comments on the Internet. I am 99.9 % certain we will someday discover we have been bamboozled more than we can see now. Of course, I have been known to be wrong in the past ?

  54. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael – I did not become a Christian – didn’t even think about religion until I was 32.

    Millennials are not joiners – so they have trouble joining a church. Heck, they have trouble joining anything.

    I read the other day that Angie’s List has now removed the subscriber’s fees to view the comments. Why? Because the millennial will not sign up and pay.

    All the changes in our country have very little to do with religion – it is everything – and church / religion is just one aspect – but not the main event.

  55. surfer51 says:

    When people feel besieged they often look for a scapegoat.

    A person or group that is made to bear blame for others.

    The name scapegoat stems from Lev. 16:8,10,26.

    In total reality, all of us are sons and daughters of Adam the first man.

    There are specks of DNA from him in all of us.

    He was a sinner and by association all of us are born sinners from day one of our lives.

    The shed blood of the Lamb of God redeems all of us who accept that fact by faith.

    He puts our sins as far from us as the East is from the West never to be remembered anymore.

    Lets put our angst upon Christ. 1 Peter 5:7

    And not on others that we don’t understand or that we don’t want to like.

    It is very freeing from frustration when we obey scripture and cast all our cares upon Him who cares for us.

    He loves all of us.

    He died in all of our places for payment in full for our transgressions done and for those that we will do in the future.

    Freed from sin and the power of sin.

    Having a place to go and unload our angst instead upon one another.

    What a great deal!

    All freely given to us if we would believe and accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.

    Now we know the truth which sets us free and he who is free is a free man in reality.

    Jesus came to set the captives free.

    Isaiah 61:1

    Luke 4:18

  56. Owen says:

    I’m not on FB or Twitter, so I didn’t see Graham’s prayer meeting. But I have often wondered what is meant by “pray for the nation”. I kinda think that misses the point.
    IMO, a positive answer to that would be people actually having a dialogue instead of waging war. And other dreams. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  57. Em ... again says:

    #56- hmmm… pray for the people of the nation – that makes more sense

  58. Em ... again says:

    yes, Jesus came to set the captives free – but wasn’t that from the bondage of sin (our own personal old sin nature? that gene from Adam that isn’t exactly a recessive one?)

  59. rob says:

    #4. Most of the prophecy wonks are living a pretty good life. They’re actually making a good living off of religion (which they claim is threatened.) From their safe and feathered nests, they try to convince the rest of us we are living in the direst of times, and should be afraid, very afraid. Their message is not much different than that of politcal candidates stirring up fear among the masses to promote their own political careers.

  60. Dan from Georgia says:

    Rob, they even continue to make straight cash when their books end up in the discount bin at the local Christian bookstore, like they always do…

  61. Ms. ODM says:

    People who believe 1/3 of the Bible which is prophecy are called wonks? __—- “Every Idle Word.”

  62. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I’m just waiting for that next prophetic date – the day of the Lord – judgment day

  63. Em ... again says:

    MLD, you’re one of those folks who read the last chapter of a book first? ๐Ÿ™‚
    better to believe it than not believe it – a fearsome and glorious day it will be…

  64. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I read that in Matt 25
    That’s at the front of the new book ๐Ÿ™‚ but there is nothing left prophetically before that day. That is glorious.

  65. Michael says:

    Ms. ODM,

    All biblically conservative Christians believe in Bible prophecy.

    What we don’t believe in is hysterical speculation that has been wrong and a false witness for 50 years.
    When people like you start using Alex Jones and Michael Savage as credible sources you bring shame on the rest of us and actually give people reasons to reject biblical prophecy as a whole.
    Neither you nor I have any clue where we are on the prophetic calendar.

  66. Michael says:

    The idle words you really should be worried about are the hundreds of false alarms you’ve yelled through the years…

  67. Ms. ODM says:

    To you it’s just theology — something that has no reality or flesh and blood to it. To those who eagerly await His coming, it’s an event we see all the signs of the times pointing to like never in history. Savage and Jones don’t bring up prophecy much. They are pretty ignorant of it — especially Savage who isn’t even a Christian. But they report the news that lefists such as yourself don’t see and don’t want to see. You’d rather rely on the controlled media since they sing your song.

  68. Michael says:

    Ms. ODM,

    You insult me greatly without answering for your own words.
    My reality is that Jesus is coming for me very soon, though probably not in the Rapture.
    Nothing is “just theology ” when your heart is failing.
    There are no signs that haven’t occurred with more intensity in other times…not one.
    If it comforts you to label me a “leftist” when you know nothing of my political thought so be it.
    I’m just one more of the brethren slandered in the name of eschatology.
    Idle words, indeed.

  69. Eric says:

    The idea of democracy as opposed to generic tyranny is that people like us are represented by people like us in the decision making process. When the political system has grown beyond that, we get unhappy with it.

    When the police force is made up of people like us, when we have a friend who is a police officer, we’re more likely to trust them. When they are seen as an ‘other’, we will less likely trust them to be fair.

  70. Em ... again says:

    FWIW – there was a time when daytime radio was on in my day time… i heard Michael Savage declare that those poor people of the Exodus left Egypt with nothing but the clothes on their back – made quite a long diatribe… don’t know Jones – don’t have the radio on these days…
    i have no problem whatsoever with folk who are pretty sure that the times are coming to a close and the great and terrible day is almost here… they might be correct… but what is to be gained by making that insight a bone of contention in the Body?
    my grandfather saw the anti-christ standing right on the threshold of time when Hitler made his move…
    the train is coming that is sure, but standing here on the tracks and feeling the vibration only tells us that it is coming – that’s all … IMHO
    we really don’t know how intense things will or can become world-wide – we don’t know if the chaos and growing apostasy is as intense as it can get or will get – why can’t we just stand and watch and hold hands and wait?

    just sayin

  71. Ms. ODM says:

    Then you don’t understand birth pangs – you’re a man. I’ve given birth four times so it’s a little easier for me to understand.

    Stronger and closer together
    wars and rumors of wars

    These things are demonstrably increasing since I first started tracking them 35 years ago.

    Israel’s enemies beefing up their war talk as they surround the tiny state.
    Use of numbers to buy and sell — 35 years ago we were laughed at to say this was coming
    Increase i lawlessness — or haven’t you noticed?
    Apostasy in the church– no, you wouldn’t see that one.

    I could go on and on – but that’s because I’m awake and watching and my eyes are open.

    So sorry about your health problems. I’m listing you up in prayer.

  72. Em ... again says:

    Michael, you don’t get to go before i do – remember that! ๐Ÿ™‚ (i confess that i’d like to go up with the whole Church – so God can’t wait too much longer to declare the fullness of time – i’m one of His spoiled brats and i expect to be catered to on this – well, i’d like to be anyway)

  73. Em ... again says:

    Ms ODM, i’ve got you beat on the birth pangs … 5 babies and i’m here to tell you, those birth pangs can be pretty long and drawn out – including that 5th one ๐Ÿ™‚

    yes, pray for Michael – we’re not ready to send him home by a long shot

  74. Randy Davis says:

    Our world has been taught that the most important element in humans existence is to feel, how we feel, what we feel, how we all feel the same thing together. This is how many issues have been moved from one side of the moral boundary to the other. We are made to feel good or feel bad about an idea together. The idea is that we are rational beings is essentially dead as a common social value. Evangelicals fear that if they are rational they will lose their faith! You know them atheists all talk about rational answers.

    In these conditions, no one thinks, they just emote. A cop shoots a criminal committing a crime but it does not matter, the police shooting is equal to murder so lets kill the cop. The cop pissed me off because he pulled me over for driving 75 in a 25 mph school zone. I’m seething, he needs killing. (someone needed killing is a reasonable defense only in Texas)

    Rationality has disappeared. Feeling prevail, quick, hot, irrational feelings. Feelings take no responsibility nor does it recognize any moral imperatives. It is totally self absorbed, I want what I want. I want a dead cop.

    I consider myself a rational person. I admit to a little fear of cops because of a few experiences as a young man. White, redneck, drives a junky car and can’t afford to fix it, so let pull him over and harass him, show him whose boss. My nephew recently discovered the same thing in the same town. Never mind that junky car could have ran off and left the cop in a cloud of dust. Small town marshal (pop 300) with no training and very little authority. To this day I have a flare of irrational fear every time I see a cop. But reason tells it go back to the old history locker and stay there.

    How do you get a people, a nation to return to reason? I don’t know but it would help with the insanity we are experiencing.

    I was in a Bible study class with other old people at 9:30 yesterday when a note popped up on someone’s phone that three law enforcement officers had been killed in Baton Rouge. I live 25 minutes from BR. My heart broke. We immediately stopped and had prayer. It can’t be a black and white issue. One of the men killed was black and had a 4 month baby boy. Someone is using irrationality to fan the flames of hate. No one seems to be immune, not even Christians. How do you get people to tell the irrational feelings to go back to the old history locker and start seeing human beings, made in the image of God? How do we remind each other that the rule of law is all that keeps us from irrational, deadly chaos? That is what we need in a leader.

  75. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    The signs Mrs ODM listed are signs that there is an end to come – not signs of the end.Matt 24 says that very thing- so Mrs ODM is wrong – “And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. ”

    Earthquakes – no foundation that there are more now than earlier – we just measure them better. At one time, if there was a earthquke in China no one but the Chineese knew – now everyone knows

    wars and rumors of wars – this is the same as earthquakes. We know of the wars now and the rumors. Days of old you did not know, unless a traveler came to your land and told you.

    pestilence & famine – with out being an expert I am sure that there is much less pestilence and famine – as we pass around world food supplies, build clean water facilities and have much better medical care – yes worldwide.

    Prophecy “experts” know nothing of prophecy because they do not understand the purpose of prophecy.

    Mrs ODM – is Jesus waiting for a coup to happen before his return, an earthquake in Nepal a tsunami in Japan? None of those things are a sign Jesus told us to look for.

    What sign did Jesus tell us to look for – there is only one and it is clearly state in scripture by Jesus’ own words.

    Rapture theology is a bigger curse on the Christian faith than Word Faith theology. Joel Osteen and Creflo Dollar are closer to Christianity than the rapture folks. and Joel and Creflo aren’t even close.

  76. Michael says:


    Great word as always…thank you!

  77. Ms. ODM says:

    MLD – You are clueless – especially since your eschatology sees no future for the Jewish state anyway. Nothing there for you to see – so move along.

  78. Muff Potter says:

    Ms. ODM @ #71:

    “Stronger and closer together
    wars and rumors of wars

    These things have always been. Earth and human history are cyclical. No man (or woman) knows which cycle or at which point on said cycle the Almighty will close up shop.

    That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.
    ~ Ecclesiastes 3:15 ~

  79. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Ms ODM,
    Well it’s not my eschatology but my Bible that informs me. But you make my point – I slam rapture theology and you don’t come back with Jesus but with Israel.

    The sum and substance of rapture theology is Israel and is not Jesus Christ. Just like the Word Faith folks, you too do not have Jesus at the center. (in fact you remove Jesus Christ from the scene for those 7 years so that God, the trinity minus Jesus can get their real work done with the real favored son – Israel.

  80. Babylon's Dread says:

    I miss ODM sometimes.

    Then ODM appears

    I remember the last root canal and its over.

    Oh Dread Me … she does

  81. Em ... again says:

    in defense of Ms ODM… i believe that geology tells us that earthquake severity and frequency is ramping up – i’m pretty sure that is information i picked up on a science, not a Christian site…
    i understand that MLD’s point from Matt could be construed as spoken to Jesus’ audience that day only – i’m pretty sure that what He was saying is that these wars and rumors will continue right up to the end, but there is – IMHO – much more in that chapter than what some who would stay very conservative are seeing today…
    has it been worse than it is today? as far as wars and pestilences and famines go, there have been worse times in some places… IMV … but they all continue, do they not?
    what is to be gained by a focus on the signs? it’s time to stay Christ centered and be watchful… hear our Lord’s words and wait – what else can we do?

  82. Em ... again says:

    and FWIW, i heartily second Michael’s #76 regarding Randy’s post

  83. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “i understand that MLDโ€™s point from Matt could be construed as spoken to Jesusโ€™ audience that day only ”

    No, it is spoken directly to them and it is spoken directly to us today. Prophecy like this (and this is what the likes of Ms ODM do not understand) is not future — it is all present tense prophecy. No matter what generation you are in, the Earthquakes, wars, pestilence and famine are all a present day sign — but not of the end, but the fact that there is an end to come. Here is the important part — none of these signs bring on the end.

  84. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    The 2nd article of the creed has it 100% right – and Jesus will come again to judge the living and the dead. Read Matt 25:31-46 and the 2nd article together and you will see that neither Jesus nor the early church had even thought of all that rapture / tribulation / Israel stuff.

  85. Babylon's Dread says:

    It really is simple

    If you are a futurist you are going to look into signs.

    If you are not you won’t

    I will never argue with anyone over earthquakes

    Being able to argue over earthquakes means one thing to me, my end is future.

  86. Jean says:

    I like what N.T. Wright said in a Q&A when someone asked him about the end. Wright said if you think the end is near, plant a tree. If Jesus comes back, wouldn’t you want him to see you caring for your neighbors and your environment?

    I’ve heard that Martin Luther thought similarly. When he thought the end was near, what did he do? He got married. That’s the blessing God gave humankind: get married, be fruitful and multiply.

    This prophesy nonsense adds absolutely no value to creation or your neighbor. It’s a bunch of idolatry, self-indulgence and for some greed-driven.

  87. Babylon's Dread says:

    Proper eschatology is exceedingly practical and salutary.

  88. Jean says:

    “Proper eschatology is exceedingly practical and salutary.”

    I agree.

  89. Em ... again says:

    #83 – i appreciate that clarification and could it be that we agree on this?

  90. Em ... again says:

    it strikes me tonight as kind of funny … some of us are expecting, some are hoping to get snatched up, to join all the Redeemed at a point in time for a wedding feast off planet, while others of us are saying, “skip the reception, let’s get to the honeymoon.” ๐Ÿ™‚

    does God smile at this? i think He does, but He’d also probably tell us that He doesn’t really need a wedding planner down here ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚ just get your wedding garment ready

  91. Ms. ODM says:

    Only those anxiously looking for the coming of the Bridegroom is the Bride — no one else seems to care.

  92. nathan priddis says:

    Doctrine is like software. It is software. How you view yourself and God, will determine what you expect in the future. It also works for the reverse.

    Just like DNA, where you can not just pull out, or insert genes, doctrine is the same. This is something that it not well understood by people. Just like when you modify DNA you get a changed organism. One change causes other interactions up and down the chain. Sometimes it comes with unexpected consequences.

  93. nathan priddis says:

    @92 I am referring to how one views the end of the age, and the believers place in it. Forgot to mention what I was even talking about. I’m tired.

  94. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Ms ODM,
    I look forward to the return of Christ just as stated in Matt 25 and the creed.
    Unlike you who looks forward to the resurrection of Israel.

  95. Em ... again says:

    while i really see a strong, clear case for the Church being called out before our Lord’s return to reign – before the years described as the pouring out of God’s wrath upon the planet… i think our focus should be on growing in Christ, not in sorting out how the last days will play out, no matter what eschatological opinions we’ve come to

    God keep all close

  96. brian says:

    Some good things to think about.

    I loathed what Police did to my family it was at times violent, more than once, twice… dozens dehumanizing. It bothered me it still does. I was literally terrified of the police, they have a gun they have a badge they can do what they want when they want to whom they want with utter impunity and that’s the way it should be. Because they have a gun and a badge.

    That is the tape I let play in my heart for decades, even though I had not had an experience like that for years it still poisoned every view I had of all police when it really was just two or three that really messed with my family. Some others followed along but it was by far not all police. I had to make a very hard conscious decision not to hate and go out and reach across the isle and talk to them to try to understand. It took me years, I do believe it was worth it to get to know and appreciate what police have to put up with on a daily basis.

    I am sort of trying to do that with the church again, I have very little hope it will succeed but I think it is worth the effort.

  97. Eric says:

    Here is an interesting video that speaks to some of the things we’ve been talking about here.

    The presenter Waleed Aly is like an Australian equivalent of Jon Oliver, though he doesn’t go all out for laughs, his segments are shorter. I don’t watch the show but see an occasional piece like this. This is the best one I’ve seen. He’s Muslim (don’t know how nominal or observant) but today he’s got my Christian friends saying “Preach it!”

    He is somewhat hypocritical in this – he tells us to understand the antagonists rather than responding with anger or ridicule and he regularly ridicules opposing points of view. Maybe he’s plagiarised from a Christian sermon. But this is worth a watch.

  98. Scott says:

    I was dismayed and bemused when Obama came out on Sunday after the cop assassinations in Baton Rouge and lectured all of us to tamp down the negative rhetoric. It was in my humble opinion the height of hypocrisy.

  99. Duane Arnold says:

    Michael, if I remember correctly, when Our Lord stood before a representative of the State, he said, “My kingdom is not of this world”… While we cannot and likely, should not, withdraw from civil society, our priorities cannot and should not be those of of the society at large. Just my opinion…

  100. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    We cannot and should not remove ourself from civil society – civil government. An understanding of the 2 kingdom theology dictates that we treat government with the same respect we would treat the church.

    God rules over the government and civil activities just as he does the church — with equal status for both.

    However, it does not help that evangelicals call the government – the government God set up, that they call it The Beast.

    Sick, sick theology.- a sick misunderstanding of who Jesus is.

  101. Jean says:

    “However, it does not help that evangelicals call the government โ€“ the government God set up, that they call it The Beast.”

    It also doesn’t help when comments here say our nation is crumbling or otherwise going down the tubes. That is an ideological talking point put forth by opponents of the current administration. It ignores the many, many strengths of our country and the many, many advances of our country over the past several years.

    It’s okay to critique the many challenges and problems we face, but not at the expense of ignoring or denying the successes and advantages that Americans have.

    In many, many ways, Americans are truly blessed and graced beyond measure that the have been born and live in America.

  102. Em ... again says:

    Jean’s #101… i see where our nation is right now a little differently and not because of the “current administration.”
    most of the folks – not all – who are warning of the erosion of this nation and its government are fully aware of what we have here and also how we came to have it.
    in reality, it’s been a long, hard and purposeful journey by our forefathers that brought us this far toward the dream of liberty and justice for all – not to be confused with lawless freedom
    i’m glad that you don’t think we’re going down the tubes, but it might be time to check the plumbing ๐Ÿ™‚

  103. Nonnie says:

    Scott’s 98. I agree. Living overseas and watching what is going on in the USA, then seeing the President of the USA rebuking police and people who are calling murder what it is, I am sickened. Shame on him.

  104. Babylon's Dread says:


    1-is ordained by God to restrain evil
    2-is a Beast when it acts beastly and deigns to usurp God
    3-is not a contradiction
    4-is within our stewardship, we are to participate

    We live in the belly of the beast …

  105. Babylon's Dread says:

    Whatever slim possibilities of a Trump win evaporated last night

    Republicans in strident conflict
    Melanie egregiously giving a plagiarized speech from Michelle Obama
    An empty convention hall for the later speeches
    Send in the clowns … please!

    Competence matters

    Hillary lies more competently than these guys speak

    Progressivism owns the future

  106. Josh the Baptist says:

    That Melania speech is one of the most bizarre things I’ve ever seen. Someone clearly sabotaged her.

  107. Michael says:

    Trump has the Teflon coating of a celebrity pastor.

    This incident will not matter a whit.

    Anyone who would support a three time married strip club owner won’t care about a bit of plagiarism.

  108. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Trump is a Hillary plant as an opponent – if this is not clear, folk need to unregister to vote

  109. Em ... again says:

    BD: “We live in the belly of the beast โ€ฆ” i love it … so true

    i must disagree that Melanie egregiously plagiarized that speech… she would have read it with no memory of Michelle’s performance – both ladies did a fine job IMHO – but the speech writer is culpable … maybe we saw some political dirty tricks last night?

    competence matters … yes, but God uses the foolish to confound does He not? i’ll have to pin my hopes on that… confound it all ๐Ÿ™‚

  110. Em ... again says:

    #108- that’s been speculated from the beginning… if true, and it could be true, won’t it be funny if Trump somehow manages to win… maybe, he’d refuse to serve and wouldn’t that make the Veep president? or maybe someone will shoot him and Obama will declare martial law and refuse to step down… the sky really is falling ๐Ÿ™‚
    who knows what evil lurks

  111. Jean says:

    “or maybe someone will shoot him and Obama will declare martial law and refuse to step downโ€ฆ the sky really is falling ๐Ÿ™‚
    who knows what evil lurks”

    And when he declares marital law, I hope he forces Elvis out of hiding, so he can start his Vegas gig back up.

  112. Michael says:

    Most of my family thinks martial law is coming…I don’t talk to my family…I did love Elvis, though.

  113. bob1 says:


    I’m so-so-so-surprised that you’re so-so-so upset at our beloved President. What a huge shock.

    Get ready for 4 more years of outrage, buddy.

  114. Michael says:

    I not only think Trump can win, I almost hope he does.
    It’s the only way people are going to understand the consequences of what they think they want in terms of immigration.
    I can grow my own veggies and I’m far enough away that when the border explodes I can safely watch it all burn.
    I’m done trying to reason with facts…let people have what they want.

    I was a very successful operator of night clubs back in the day.
    It’s a nasty business.
    However, the lowest form of life on the planet are strip club owners.
    How do you suppose they interview their employees?

    I repented when it was time to come back to the faith…little did I know the church might have even elected me President…

  115. Tim - Doulos says:

    @112 – I can easily see martial law on the horizon, no matter who gets elected president.

    It’s been a rare presidential cycle I’ve been so disappointed in our choices for the office. On the other hand, it’s a great personal reminder to me that our hope is in our King; not our nation.

  116. Jean says:

    Michael, if martial law comes, it won’t be on Pres. Obama’s watch. I’m pretty sure he’s counting down the days to retirement from that job. Like the Pres. before him, it’s a thankless job, puts about 20 extra years on a person, and burns them out.

    The Lord will install the next one. Who ever it is, His will will be done.

  117. Michael says:


    I’m honestly close to not giving a hoot in hell.
    My biggest concern is that ten years of insane rhetoric will finally cause an explosion locally and I probably need to think about how I’m going to respond and how the church is going to respond if that happens.

  118. Jean says:

    Regrettably the rhetoric probably is going to get much worse as we draw nearer to the November elections, because insane rhetoric has been working for some. They will not stop that rhetoric as long as it works for them, even if it does great damage to the country and the victims of the rhetoric. It’s especially sad when we see, here and elsewhere (although not by you Michael), our Christian faith being exploited (hijacked) in service to such insane rhetoric.

  119. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “Most of my family thinks martial law is comingโ€ฆ”

    All of this talk about martial law just shows that FB and Twitter are a game.

    We have had cities actually burning down, buildings being blown up, – look at Watts, The Rodney King affair, Kent State and the ensuing protests and the closing down of almost all colleges and universities – the Chicago DNC 1968, Ferguson, Baltimore – over 300 murders in Chicago this year you name it over the years and never martial law.

    You guys live in lala land

  120. Michael says:


    What you don’t get is that people honestly believe this crap and it is fed to them 24/7.
    You can’t do that without consequences.

    As an example…

    There is a Calvary Chapel pastor with a large online following as well as a radio show and podcast.

    Last night he reposted an article telling all those people that the FEMA camps were ready and the plans in place to gather up all the good people when martial law is declared.

    His followers believe him…and live in a state of anger, suspicion, and fear.

    I was trying to explain some of the numbers from the book I’m pushing to my church last week…and one of my people thought it could all be explained because of “open borders”.

    The misinformation has been believed and we’re going to pay for it someday,some way…

  121. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “His followers believe himโ€ฆand live in a state of anger, suspicion, and fear.”

    Who cares what they believe and fear – if there is no martial law (and there will not be) there is nothing for them to rebel about.

    Who is the CC pastor? – let’s give his shtick a listen.

  122. Michael says:


    I hope you’re right…and I hope all those people who are talking about taking matters into their own hands if Trump isn’t elected don’t.

    I think we could see ’68 in spades.

  123. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael -here is the question – take what into their own hands? Are we going to see 5 ranchers down on the border with their 22s?

    What are they wanting to take into their hands…. Mexicans by the throat?

    This kind of talk is so foreign to what I am around. I live 100 miles from the border – no one has an illegals alien situation like we do and I never here this. If there are people like this out there, they need to be taken off the street today for their own good.

  124. Michael says:


    There are many, many people like this…and it’s not just on border issues.

    I’m not sure you’re in touch with mainstream America…certainly with a part of it, but there is a large block you are blissfully unaware of.

  125. Xenia says:

    As I said here recently, I know an ex-CC pastor (now a pastor of an independent church) who totally buys into the FEMA camp mythology.

  126. Jean says:

    Iโ€™m not sure youโ€™re in touch with mainstream America”


    Would Iowa be considered mainstream America? I have never heard of the FEMA camp mythology or any insurrection talk around here. Cruz won the Iowa primary and we have two Republican Senators and a Republican Governor. From what I can tell, things appear very stable and even optimistic around here.

    MLD, in or outta touch? Let’s save that for a another time. ๐Ÿ™‚

  127. Michael says:

    If the “occupation” by the Bundy’s at the wildlife refuge had happened where there actually were people living,we might have seen that blow up horribly.

    There are a lot of angry people here and even more in the South.

  128. Em ... again says:

    aren’t the FEMA camps in place to house disaster victims as in the New Orleans hurricane of a while back?

    things aren’t good right now, denying the possibility of anarchy won’t help or hurt the situation – just stay in place and don’t add to the confusion – but if i were a young male, i’d go to Dallas and join the police department just for the privilege of working for Chief Brown

  129. Xenia says:

    My observation is this: The only group of people I knew who talk about the FEMA camp mythology were Calvary Chapel people and Assembly of God people. And some people who attended a cultish pentecostal church, now defunct. But there was a large number of people who did buy into this story, which includes birthers*, 911 conspiracies, black helicopters, amassing of body bags and ammo, etc. Back when I was part of that world, I heard these things all the time. People would talk back and forth to each other about this thinks with utmost sincerity. This kind of talk was pervasive. Based on some recent conversations, I suspect it still is.

    *Birther-belief is new since my evangelical days because Obama was not in office when I was part of that world. But the mythology surrounding all the people the Clintons supposedly murdered was firmly believed by many.

  130. Xenia says:

    this thinks = these things

  131. Michael says:


    Don’t leave out the palpable hatred of President Obama…

  132. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “If the โ€œoccupationโ€ by the Bundyโ€™s at the wildlife refuge had happened …”
    And that is the point. The total capacity of the “angry crowd” is to be able to take over a wildlife preserve.

    A good LA Swat team would have taken them out by the 2nd day.

    If all these people are actually out there, Trump should win in a landslide.

  133. Michael says:


    That’s what I’m telling you…he might.

  134. Michael says:

    When those idiots were live streaming their “occupation” there would sometimes be 10,000 people rooting them on…I think the only thing that saved us was it’s way out in the middle of nowhere…

  135. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    You know Michael, I think I am in line with mainstream America – you have more contact with the fringe element of society – who are always upset and agitated – circumstances do not matter.

    Last week I said I took a poll in my office of the 35 people to see who knew who Alex Jones was — nobody knew him by name. Your response was somewhat to the affect that my peeps were too mainstream – or too Orange County or what ever.

    Is Stefan Stanford the CC pastor you were talking of?

  136. Michael says:


    No, I’m talking about Mike Spaulding…he’s big on the prepper circuit too…

  137. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Re Spaulding – I thought you said he had a podcast. I say we listen.

    Before Jean asks – I will ask for him – what is the prepper circuit ?

  138. Michael says:

    I will be damned if I’ll put a link up to his crap.
    “Soaring Eagle Radio”.

    Preppers are those who believe all this FEMA, martial law, etc., insanity so they are preparing…”prepping” for the end.

    I live 25 miles from the world capital of nutcases in this matter…

  139. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I was going to say, have you been doing all of your polling in Rogue River? ๐Ÿ˜‰

  140. Michael says:

    I drive through Rogue River quickly… ๐Ÿ™‚

  141. Xenia says:

    I told the pastor guy that if he really believed all this stuff was true, then he’d better turn off the computer and go outside and plant a garden. He declined. Wallowing in Obama-hate is more fun than making a compost pile.

    Seriously, whether you are optimistic, pessimistic, lib or conserv, go plant a garden. Even if the think the Rapture is going to happen tomorrow, go plant a garden.

    I think I should revive my old gardening blog, Xenia’s Garden. It’s probably the most useful thing I could do at this time. I have a bumper crop of grapes this year.

  142. Jean says:

    Prepper circuit? Never heard of it.

    We do have a Pepper Circuit. In the summer, a lot of guys and gals around here love to grow lots of varieties of peppers for home made salsa. Don’t you just love good salsa and guacamole with your chips?

  143. Michael says:

    Guacamole is the snot of the devil.

    I do like salsa,though…

  144. Michael says:

    โ€œโ€œThus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, to all the exiles whom I have sent into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon: Build houses and live in them; plant gardens and eat their produce. Take wives and have sons and daughters; take wives for your sons, and give your daughters in marriage, that they may bear sons and daughters; multiply there, and do not decrease. But seek the welfare of the city where I have sent you into exile, and pray to the LORD on its behalf, for in its welfare you will find your welfare.โ€
    (Jeremiah 29:4โ€“7 ESV)

  145. Tim - Doulos says:

    @144 – “Guacamole is the snot of the devil.”

    I always knew there was something wrong with you… ๐Ÿ˜‰

  146. Tim - Doulos says:

    By the way – I stepped through the doors of Sun Records on Monday. It was great knowing that Jerry Lee Lewis and others had made history there.

  147. Michael says:


    I am exceedingly jealous.
    That’s the last item on my bucket list… ๐Ÿ™‚

  148. Scott says:

    Like MLD always says, if our votes really mattered, they wouldn’t let us do it. Since he is obviously the man in the know around here, I’m coming around to that perspective, we’re all, Democrats, Republicans, Independents just a bunch dumb stooges being played.

    Therefore, since our votes don’t really matter and MLD thinks it’s cool to vote for someone based on their skin tone and gender, I’m beginning to think it might be cool have an orange, billionaire casino owner as President. After all, we’ve never had one of those before either.

    What do you think MLD? ๐Ÿ˜‰

    Oh and bob1, bless you brother.

  149. Jean says:

    “Like MLD always says, if our votes really mattered, they wouldnโ€™t let us do it.”

    I don’t agree with MLD on this issue. The GOP had the most qualified line up of qualified candidates I can remember during my lifetime. Not all of them, and especially not who they chose, but there were at least a half dozen very qualified candidates. The GOP primary voters made their choice. Their votes mattered.

    The Democrats were dealt a terrible hand. Two bad choices. Regrettably no qualified Democrats were willing to take on Clinton.

  150. Michael says:

    I may put a moratorium on politics here.
    I can see the beginnings of mucho strife…

  151. Jean says:

    “I may put a moratorium on politics here.”

    I support that decision.

  152. Scott – it is true that it matters not the Donald or Hillary and for reasons
    1.) the lifer government workers run the show.
    2.) world events control the agenda much more than the domestic side.

    Look at the oddity – both you and I were cast out of our businesses during Bush and we are both gainfully employed old guys under Obama
    Learn to appreciate the good. ๐Ÿ™‚

  153. Scott says:

    I’m also considering writing in Pokemon for president ๐Ÿ˜‰

  154. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Well I haven’t watched any of the convention, but I was looking on Facebook to see if my mom got back from Montana and i saw that they had nominated Trump – and yet Cleveland is not burning.
    See, no one is upset about anything in real life – anyone who is upset is FB and Twitter upset.

  155. Em ... again says:

    no one in this country using their left brain and no one in their right mind will cast their vote for Hillary Clinton … so i guess only the brainless will do that?
    MLD says, “1.) the lifer government workers run the show.” i think he’s got that right and
    that’s a good thing to remember when our politicians tell us of all the reforms that they’ll achieve…
    “Oh, Brother, Where Art Thou?” wasn’t that the name of the movie with the fat politician? a perfect ubiquitous portrayal – worth digging it out and watching again… is Trump the pater noster? ahh… thinking about that old movie, that’s a much better way to occupy my brain, i think ๐Ÿ™‚

    can i refrain from political comments; for the sake of Michael’s health at least? oh, i hope so… don’t anyone say anything here that breaks my resolution

    God keep

  156. Surfer51 says:

    Sorry Em, but you do have a great point.

    Wait a minute it was MLD who said “The lifer government workers…”

    Brought to my mind my own beloved city of Costa Mesa.

    We got a bunch of far right guys running things.

    They are “privatizing” city services and making employees spent 17.3 percent of each pay check for their own pensions.

    Our police force and fire services are understaffed and under paid.

    Because they tell us “government is too big.”

    But the far right guys are well paid and revolve from being mayor to city council member and back to mayor feeding at the government trough with its great health care plan for them and their families.

    Reminds me of the old saying, ” I can’t hear what your saying because your life speaks louder than your words.”

    If they truly believed their political rethoric, they would only serve one term and go back to private citizen.

    But most of them have years of feeding from our city government trough with its great pay and all of the perks along with the other corrupt under the table deals common to most cities.

    Their lives contradict their message ultimately.

    But then again I as a Christian do that myself…thank God for grace and mercy!

    If I could only be the kind of person my seven cats think I am…

  157. Michael says:


    Any man with seven cats is good with me.
    I’ve been adopted by another stray…trying to figure out how he will get along with the Queen…

  158. Surfer51 says:

    Oh…Avocado is the perfect food.

    It doesn’t ripen until plucked from the tree.

    And if all you ate was avocado, it has all the essential ingredients needed to sustain you.

    But it is an acquired taste like fish bait (sushi).

    Avocado is an amazing hand granade when your a kid playing soldiers in an avocado grove.

    Had plenty of experience in the days of my youth.

    When they are over ripe they explode on a white tee shirt with the greatest green splat.

    I bet the grove owners hated us, but we had no idea they were food…LOL

    The groves made great play grounds for kids.

    Piles of leaves to hide in and plenty of amonition at hand.

    Avocados are fun.

    Right up there with Brussels sprouts heh heh.

  159. London says:

    “I may put a moratorium on politics here”

    That would be a welcome relief.

  160. Owen says:

    I would second the moratorium…..oops, sorry London – I’ll third it, then.

  161. JonnyB says:

    Walks through with his broom and dust pan, cleaning up the mess.

    Thinking to himself that certain topics are harder to clean up after than others.

    He whistles as he finishes his task and turns off the lights and closes the door behind him as he goes off to his next task.

  162. Randy Davis says:

    Just saw this great discussion. There were no FEMA camps during Katrina. People just disappeared. Spooky! Some of them did reappear in Dallas, Memphis and Atlanta ?

  163. Randy Davis says:

    In all seriousness, there is supposed to be FEMA camps in Louisians according to certain “authorities.” I also happen to know that none of them really exist. One is actually a prison which you can see on Google. One is a research center with a particle accelerator. The other is an abandoned WWII army camp that housed German prisoners of war. I have driven through it. It is grown over with bushes and trees. There are no fences or guard towers or barricks. I imagine it’s the same all over.

  164. bob1 says:

    I also happen to know that none of them really exist.

    What a shock.

    they only exist in some individuals’s fevered brains.

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