Things I Think…

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15 Responses

  1. Alan says:

    Another analysis of NAR that clearly knows nothing of the genesis or development of the idea. So just caricature a pure ‘basket of (charismatic) deplorables’ presented with a mix of confirmation bias and innuendo. NAR is the bogeyman of religious politics. CT of all sources.This is the conspiracy theory nonsense that is constantly decried by those who actually hold the reins of power?

    Yes there are christian nationalists among us. Yes, there are those who hold to a 7 mountain strategy to influence, not control the world. Yes, there are bad actors who rise to power. Same stuff is in every denomination in one form or another.

    I am a card carrying member of Global Awakening Network, actually am an original member. I am an insider to our work, our mission and our agenda. CT is slandering their brothers in this kind of article. It is horrendous and has no semblance of seeking the truth or following Jesus. Good research requires much more care than that article.

    I was THERE when NAR was birthed as an idea. I was right there when the phrase was coined and the original doctoral class was taught outlining exactly what it was. But when people have their mind made up they don’t need to take any care just find a crowd to rile.

    Wagner definitely morphed it as his particular notion of the work of apostles and prophets unfolded. Even his foremost student John Wimber broke with him over his ideas about spiritual mapping. Vineyard has NEVER embodied what Pete became. Anyway, I am spitting into a hurricane.

    Claiming kinship of some of these people in the article is like saying all Protestants are one thing.

    Stay in your quiet place Michael. I will field the reaction as I have moments. Sorry to throw a bomb as soon as you try to rest your head.

  2. Michael says:


    The article is from Premier UK, not CT.

    You know of my deep respect for you and the conflict I have always had with many of your brethren.

    We have had “spirited fellowship” around these issues without breaking relationship and I trust we will continue to do so.

    What is it that I don’t understand about your movement and those involved?

  3. Alan says:


    I am not breaking with you over these things but within Global Awakening we are very clear that we do not ascribe dominionism as our eschatology. Some are historic premil, some are even postlmil and amil. We disavow Christian nationalism. Affiliated networks disagree. We do not have heirarchical ecclesiology within our own ranks. We are multi denominationally affiliated around a continuationist view of the gifts. We include Anglicans, Catholics, and a wide array of Pentecostal Charismatic denominations and groups. Methodism welcomes us most freely and Presbyterianism least…no Baptists dislike us a great deal.

    Our educational affiliation is with fidelity to the Great Tradition of our faith, somewhat as defined by Roger Olson in his “Mosaic … ” Wesleyan theology is preferred over Calvinist but there are calvinists among us. We are a Holy Spirit renewal movement. We have delved into the theological world to hedge careless theological fads and errors.

    Many of us have signed the statements concerning Christian Nationalism and Prophetic accountability to curb excesses. Michael Brown led the way on those statements.

    We affiliate with other networks who have a wide variety of ecclesial forms and missions. We want to see the world evangelized, we want to see healing in our bodies and in our nations but not by might and power — but by the Spirit.

  4. Alan says:

    My affiliation is purposefully with Global Awakening to avoid some of the excesses.

  5. Michael says:


    Thank you.

    This opens up a can of worms…”we want to see healing in our bodies and in our nations but not by might and power — but by the Spirit.’

    I see little evidence that this is possible or even mandated in Scripture before the eschaton.
    I see a lot of folks fraudulently claiming it 9bodily healing) happens in their meetings.

    As I have stated previously, I had you in high regard as a person and a teacher…but I don’t understand the point in overpromising and underdelivering in the name of God…not that you are, but I see it constantly.

    Part of my need to break away for a bit is my frustration with so much pain in the people I know…and the lack of divine help.

    Perhaps this belongs to another day…I’m weary and inarticulate…

  6. Alan says:

    I think you should pull aside and rest.

    I don’t mind if people reject us based upon what we teach, believe and do. Thus our continuationism is a basis of difference. That is fine. We agree about over promising and it is my continuous burden to see that we pastor those things with the love of Christ.

    Keep your peace. I am not at all offended by you on this. But like you I must speak sometimes.

  7. prodinov says:

    Rest easy Michael. Will have to tackle “Elisabeth Elliot”. Great thanks for one of your previous recommendations on “Beth Moore”. Whereas I was slightly annoyed with her, little ditzy on some of her talks, I found her autobiography absolutely heart warming. Not only that, I found such a deep respect for her grace, her love, her outpouring of that which is spirit led. I fell in love with her wishing we all could embrace some of her grace. You always stood in her corner and that is greatly appreciative. I know she received such push back and the wounds were deep but she continues to persevere. And love her honesty about her husband and yet the deep love between them. So as always, late response to appreciating your book recommendations. I value your insights.

  8. Josh says:

    Alan – If you had time, I would love to see a series from you on the history of these things from your perspective, as you had a front row seat, or were even intricately involved in some parts.

  9. Michael says:


    Thank you, as always, for the kind words.
    I’m glad you enjoyed Beth’s book…I feel better just knowing she out there…I adore her.

    Elisabeth Elliot is hard to adore.

    To be honest, I’m going to enlist the help of a friend who is a highly trained psychologist in hopes that she will read these volumes as well.

    I don’t know if Jim and “Betty” Elliot were devout believers of a sort that I’m unworthy of or if both suffered some psychological disorder.

    I’m through the first volume and into the second…I still don’t know what I think.

    The books are very well written…

  10. Michael says:


    I think you would do as a service if someday you could do as Josh requested.
    I was privileged to get the story of Calvary Chapels early days from those who were there…this would be as fascinating…

  11. Terry says:


    I’m also curious as to your background info. I’ve had a lot of interaction with the Vineyard side of things in the 80s-90s, plus had close friends and family involved with IHOP in the 00s-10s. In the past I’ve respected both Dr. Michael Brown and Harold Eberle quite a lot. There are other figures in the NAR (which doesn’t exist?) that I consider false prophets and dangerous. Anyone who would paint this area of Charismatic as all bad doesn’t know some of it’s best people on a personal level.

  12. Victoria Noble says:

    Michael, I’ve been reading your blog for several years, and this is my first time commenting. So many posts of yours I’ve thought I should comment, but I’m not the best communicator and I’m lazy. I love your love of cats and cried when I read about Smokey (I lost my precious Annie a little over a month later). Although I may not always agree with everything posted, I deeply appreciate your commitment to exposing church abuse. I found your blog by researching Calvary Chapel (I went to Calvary Costa Mesa for many years), but I’ve stayed because I really enjoy reading your posts.

    Of all the things I’ve read here and been curious about, I’m finally commenting on this post. I would love to hear more about your thoughts on Elisabeth Elliot. Whenever I come across people like her, I feel so inadequate. What exactly about her version of evangelicalism is both fascinating and frightening? It’s interesting to me that you’re reading so much about her yet not being a fan. 🙂


  13. Michael says:


    Thank you for writing and your tears on behalf of my old friend Smokey. I’m sorry you had to suffer your own loss of your friend Annie.

    Why read about Elisabeth Elliot?
    She was a towering and influential figure in the evangelicalism of my youth and her influence still permeates those my age.

    I really didn’t like the woman and I usually learn more from people I don’t like than people I do…and I’m still obsessed with learning.

    Now that I’ve slogged through hundreds of pages about her…I would have probably liked her quite much as a person. She was brilliant and introverted and had little use for small talk.

    She despised the kind of fake, legalistic Christianity that she ended up representing….and she was very complex.


    I was surprised to find that she was actually an Episcopalian, with high regard for C.S. Lewis and the Anglican divines.

    She is worth knowing…even through biography…and I did learn from her.

    I highly commend the biographies to you…the first volume is brilliant, the second a disappointing dismissal of the end of her life…which should have been as throughly documented as the first.

  14. Pineapple Head says:

    My wife was pulled out of a severe ministry slump by reading the first volume.

  15. Victoria Noble says:

    Thank you. I value your opinion so will strongly consider reading them. I don’t know much about her, actually, except what happened to her husband and that she stayed to continue ministering after that. I would have been terrified. I believe she ended up having Alzheimer’s in her later years.

    Pineapple Head, that is interesting about your wife and very good. I always expect to get down on myself reading about her since I know I’d feel very convicted reading about her faith.

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