Unpaid Bills : Duane W.H. Arnold

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41 Responses

  1. Linn says:

    Duane,

    I so agree with what you’re saying. If people do read books, it’s “devotional.” The Christian verse/anecdote/prayer for the day kind (and, other than Oswald Chambers, I find most of it uninspiring and boring). It’s the same in a lot of other areas. I talked with a Christian last week who thought something she read on the Babylon Bee was actually true. That led to a discussion on satire, except she didn’t know what satire was. 🙁

    I will give my own church credit for doing a makeover on our Sunday School material and sermon content after we got a new pastor in 2017. We no longer preach the gospel of “Jesus Calling” (yuck!) in the women’s Bible studies. But, there are still many people in the congregation who believe the gospel of fox News, or-horror-the Epic Times (sponsored by the Unification Church) more than they believe the doctrine of grace. I continue to pray for us all.

    Your and Michael’s writing is so important. I only read three blogs, and this is one of them. I come for solid content and the freedom to agree or disagree without being shot down out of the air. There are very few blogs like this one.

  2. Michael says:

    The last decade of J.I. Packers life was dedicated to the cause of catechesis.

    When I asked him what the best use of this site would be he almost shouted…”catechize, catechize, catechize’!

  3. bob1 says:

    This is really good stuff! Thanks to Duane and Michael.

    This was about 20 years ago now, but me and my family members were catechized, and just our family, by a ‘veteran’ Lutheran pastor. We probably met over 9 months, either weekly or biweekly. We were transitioning out of generic fundagelicalism and had lots of questions, which he patiently answered. I still remember it with great gratitude.

    And the commenters here are correct — there’s really no substitute for in-depth, nuanced study, which leads to engagement and reflection. It’s sad that it seems like it’s harder to find these days.

  4. Officerhoppy says:

    “ There seems to be an idea that anything dealing with our Christian faith should be simple and easy, and that is simply not the case”

    So true.

    As a pastor, I have to ask “what came first the simple and easy sermon or a lazy congregation?”

    I had people love my church for the depth of the sermon. But many more left because all they wanted was a simple sermon with just enough meat to get them thru the week.

    In the end, I didn’t have the largest church in town but most were pretty solid believers.

  5. Duane Arnold says:

    Linn,

    Many thanks! It really is frustrating that there is so much that can be offered, but the vast majority of believers just ignore the bounty. I’m really to the point that I don’t care if it’s somebody wearing a MAGA hat or if it’s a hipster in skinny jeans or the worship leader at the local mega church… read some books!!!

  6. Duane Arnold says:

    Hoppy,

    We don’t do well with preparing people for life’s hard times. Hard times bring questions, some of which have answers and others that remain mysteries. We can, however, help people to have a theological basis to deal with what confronts them or, most certainly, will confront them in the course of their lives.

  7. Reuben says:

    “Book learnin’ and such” corrupts the mind. This was the mantra of CC for decades. They had the accepted list, and if it was not on that list, you were corrupting yourself. Is it any wonder why all MacArthur commentaries were sold in the church book store EXCEPT for THAT ONE?!?

    I ferociously promoted a small book called Cat And Dog Theology during my time at CC, but unless I handed people the book (and I did to the hundreds at my own expense) nobody would read it.

  8. Duane Arnold says:

    Reuben

    In that case, my mind is thoroughly corrupted…

  9. Reuben says:

    Mine is too. It did not end well though.

  10. Linn says:

    Reuben,

    I translated a conference for the author of dog and cat theology years ago. Being a true cat lover, I worship at the altar of feline superiority on a daily basis.

    I went to a church where higher education, except at a low-rent Bible college, was discouraged. Thankfully, my parents told me I could do Bible college after I did university. That was a good move, but I went to a good Bible college with a solid reputation. That old slogan about a mind being a terrible thing to waste is so true.

  11. Officerhoppy says:

    Reuben
    Well, for clarification, I was a CC pastor and encouraged reading of any kind—especially by authors or theologians they don’t necessarily agree with.

    But I was usually the exception of the CC rule

    So not all CC’s were like the ones you are familiar with with. Of course, I am on the left coast!

  12. Officerhoppy says:

    Linn
    Sounds like you went about your education in the right way.

    A lot of CC’s were adverse to higher education. Not all! They were against any type of secular education and in elementary school, enrolled their kids in Christian Schools where teachers weren’t trained or certified or they did homeschooling.

    The CC’s I was familiar with had schools of discipleship for post HS kids where they learned not necessarily how to think critically, but instead how to parrot the party line. Some were taught a trade. Most of those were, in the long run, unsuccessful.

    My wife and I enrolled our kinds in public school and after HS, encouraged them to attend an accredited college. They are both successful working women.

  13. LInn says:

    Officer Hoppy,

    My parents paid for university and refused to pay for Bible college. When I went, I paid for it myself (my parents helped a bit) and I picked one that was non-denom and accredited. I am thankful that God gave me parents that could see farther into the future than I could at 18.

  14. Reuben says:

    Steve, you were an actual rule breaker. Don’t deny it.

  15. bob1 says:

    Linn, Sounds like you do have wise parents. I’ll bet they knew that if you were to have a successful future, you needed to avoid the Bible college hothouse.

  16. Linn says:

    They weren’t Christians, but they did know I needed a living wage. Surprisingly enough, I did 15 years of missionary work before I went back to teaching school (which I’ve been doing the last 30 years).

  17. Officerhoppy says:

    Reuben
    Ain’t no denying it!

  18. pstrmike says:

    ” There seems to be an idea that anything dealing with our Christian faith should be simple and easy, and that is simply not the case.”

    I taught at a Calvary Chapel school of ministry, teaching on the Servant Songs of Isaiah when one of the students pushed back with the simple argument. I had spent a considerable amount of time working with these passages, and the Servant songs are anything but simple. I don’t think this person had ever read the Bible as more than just a tech manual, and didn’t understand nor could appreciate these poetic expressions in Isaiah. I didn’t think it was lazinessness as much as it was an entrenched ignorance. Needless to say, that was the last time I taught there.

  19. Duane Arnold says:

    “I didn’t think it was laziness as much as it was an entrenched ignorance.”

    It is entrenched and intentional… and that is the root of the problem. “Simple” becomes an excuse as well as a hermeneutical tool.

  20. Duane Arnold says:

    “While America’s evangelical Christians are rightly concerned about the secular worldview’s rejection of biblical Christianity, we ought to give some urgent attention to a problem much closer to home—biblical illiteracy in the church. This scandalous problem is our own, and it’s up to us to fix it.

    Researchers George Gallup and Jim Castelli put the problem squarely: ‘Americans revere the Bible—but, by and large, they don’t read it. And because they don’t read it, they have become a nation of biblical illiterates.’ How bad is it? Researchers tell us that it’s worse than most could imagine.

    Fewer than half of all adults can name the four Gospels. Many Christians cannot identify more than two or three of the disciples. According to data from the Barna Research Group, 60 percent of Americans can’t name even five of the Ten Commandments. ‘No wonder people break the Ten Commandments all the time. They don’t know what they are,’ said George Barna, president of the firm. The bottom line? ‘Increasingly, America is biblically illiterate.’

    Multiple surveys reveal the problem in stark terms. According to 82 percent of Americans, ‘God helps those who help themselves,’ is a Bible verse. Those identified as born-again Christians did better—by one percent. A majority of adults think the Bible teaches that the most important purpose in life is taking care of one’s family.

    Some of the statistics are enough to perplex even those aware of the problem. A Barna poll indicated that at least 12 percent of adults believe that Joan of Arc was Noah’s wife. Another survey of graduating high school seniors revealed that over 50 percent thought that Sodom and Gomorrah were husband and wife. A considerable number of respondents to one poll indicated that the Sermon on the Mount was preached by Billy Graham.

    We are in big trouble.”

    Al Mohler

  21. Captain Kevin says:

    “…We are in big trouble.”

    Yikes!!

  22. Duane Arnold says:

    Captain Kevin

    People don’t believe that it is this bad…
    It is…

  23. Officerhoppy says:

    How do we deal with the issue of biblical illiteracy?

    I think a lot of people are satisfied with “being saved” as if that is the end of their spiritual journey.

    With the introduction of Mega churches in the 70’s the message from the pulpit began to change. People, it seems, started coming to worship service expecting to leave feeling good rather than giving to God the glory due his name.

    So what needs to change to make a culture biblically literate? What are the steps? I think discipleship is one place to start.

    If I never preach another sermon I’d be OK with that. I found more transformation taking place as I met in small groups or 1:1 than I ever did from a sermon series.

    So what do you think is the strategy to make the Christian cultures bio locally literate?

    FYI—My theory of discipleship is we study to know, then to do, and in the doing (what the scriptures say) we become (transformation)

  24. Michael says:

    The problem is deeper than simple illiteracy.
    The most illiterate people I encounter actually think they are quite literate, because they are part of a church that teaches chapter by chapter, verse by verse.
    There is also the problem with ignorance of church history…which teaches you that your sect doesn’t necessarily have the last word on biblical interpretation…

  25. Duane Arnold says:

    The task of catechesis begins with the pastors of the churches. I daily say morning and evening prayer with the readings. In the course of three years I cover most of the Old and New Testament. That’s at least a start. When there are no expectations for the clergy, what are we to expect with regard to the laity? As I said at the end of the article, these are our unpaid bills. We have emphasized the calling to “leadership” to such an extent that we have forgotten to mention the call to “follow” and set an example for the laity. Jesus says a lot about following, and very little about leading. In other words, we need to think about cleaning up our own house first…

  26. Steve says:

    Duane said: A majority of adults think the Bible teaches that the most important purpose in life is taking care of one’s family.

    _________________________________________

    Is this necessarily bad application? Your own family members is where you will find the neighbors in closest proximity to you. Seems to me after loving the Lord God with all your mind, heart and strength, I can not think of a higher purpose and application in life than loving your neighbor as yourself which starts with your immediate family. This is not an example of biblical illiteracy but rather a value that has been embedded in American culture that I suspect has its origins in Christian ethics and the Bible. Again, how is this bad unless we see no value in the nuclear family and want to replace it with something else?

  27. Duane Arnold says:

    Steve,

    First of all, Duane didn’t say it… Al Mohler did, quoting a survey.

    Secondly, while family is certainly of importance, there are numerous passages in which a Christian’s loyalty and concern goes far beyond the family and, in some cases, believers are called to make a choice in terms of their priorities. This is really basic in our understanding of the biblical message. If you don’t want to do a full out study on the subject, I would suggest that you simply read the Gospels. Jesus is pretty clear about the matter…

    I think the heart of the matter is that the Bible is not a series of TED talks aimed at self-improvement…

  28. Steve says:

    Duane, I’m not a big fan of AL Mohler. He talks out of both sides of his mouth on occassion.

    Curious, what do you think about the concept of sphere soveirngty similar to what Abraham Kuyper taught?

  29. Duane Arnold says:

    Steve,

    I am unconcerned with whether or not you are a fan of Al Mohler. You should, however, correctly identify who you are quoting…

  30. Duane Arnold says:

    As to sphere sovereignty, it is an overlay of politics and culture, which provides grounding for social Democratic parties. It is a system like any other system with virtues and with flaws, but I’m not here to discuss politics…

  31. Steve says:

    Duane, Of course. Yes, Please accept my sincere apology. I honestly at first didn’t see your direct quote from AL Mohler. I honestly thought these were your own words. With that said, you did choose to quote him and now even seem to defend what he has written. You should interact with the substance of my question which probably gets to the heart of the matter and give grace to an obvious administrative error.

  32. Duane Arnold says:

    I would defend the findings of the surveys he referenced.
    I pointed out the “administrative error”.
    I addressed the substance of your question.

    And?

  33. Steve says:

    Duane, I’m not here to discuss politics or the civil sphere either. My original thought was with the priority of the family. 2 of the 3 spheres are family and the church. It’s very relevant to the topic at hand.

  34. Duane Arnold says:

    As I indicated above, I think a better place to start is with the Gospels and what Jesus said about family…

  35. Duane Arnold says:

    Steve

    Any system that we overlay upon the gospels will have strengths and weaknesses. This is true of sphere sovereignty, or the two kingdoms, or even Augustine’s and Anselm’s just war theory. All of these, along with so many other theories, are tools that we try to use to understand our relation to God and to one another. The problem is that in time we elevate the tool almost to the point of idolatry. It is the reading of the Gospels that comes first. All theories and systems must be seen in that light and not as ends in and of themselves.

  36. Steve says:

    Duane, I just read Luke 14:26. I feel like I now need to join Patmos, the Potterfield ministry or some other cult that will deliberately isolate you from family that Im supposed to hate. Not an option for me. Sorry! But I put things in the right context and priority @6:43. God comes first. Not sure what issue you had with what I wrote but what I gather is you what you wrote @2:55 on catechesis begins with pastors in the church. My pushback on this is not quite. I actually believe catechesis begins at home. Maybe you never thought of that before but I’m pretty convinced but I’m open to your learned knowledge Dr. Duane.

  37. Duane Arnold says:

    There is more than the Luke reference… Read and reflect, it’s what we are supposed to do…

  38. Steve says:

    Should I do some lectio divina or do you have another method I’m supposed to do….?

  39. Duane Arnold says:

    Steve,

    I usually suggest something much more simple. In the first instance, buy yourself a New Testament that is not broken up into verses but simply has paragraphs. Then just read a couple of chapters a day. Reflect upon what you read and how it applies to your life and to your interactions with those around you. Read through the four gospels a couple times in this way. When you come upon something that you don’t understand, then take a look at some commentaries. Read it as a narrative, not as proof texts. It’s amazing how your view of scripture will change…

  40. Steve says:

    Duane, I do something very similar with my young daughter. Although there are cartoon pictures in her children’s Bible, there aren’t verse numbers and it does help with the narrative when I read to her. Now can I ask you about family? What role does a pastor verses myself as a father have in the catechesis of my 6 year old daughter and what should come first?

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