I dunno. Something in her post doesn’t sit right. Maybe I’m over thinking it. And for the record, I am a fan of Beth.
I need to think more about what she is saying. It sounds to me that her focus is love….and I get that. But that’s the line or word most people use that don’t necessarily want to obey scripture.
So I guess that’s what sent up the red flags for me.
Officerhoppy, I read the word from Beth within the framework written by Rick Warren:
“Our culture has accepted two huge lies. The first is that if you disagree with someone’s lifestyle, you must fear or hate them. The second is that to love someone means you agree with everything they believe or do. Both are nonsense. You don’t have to compromise convictions to be compassionate.“
If someone I didn’t know had written your comment, I would lose it.
Instead I will try to be gracious.
What compels Christians to take a wonderful word and try to find the sin in it…thus ruining the word?
Beth is writing to Christians as a Christian…bewildered as I am at all the hate and strife within our own camp.
She’s telling us to focus …not on all the people that say awful things about us, but on those who embody Jesus to us.
Then she speaks of continuing to love despite the scars and wounds from others…again focus on how you’ve been loved and how to keep loving despite the pain.
“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself”.
It’s a thoroughly biblical word and one I needed to hear this morning.
I don’t want to disregard a main focus of the scriptures which seems to be summarized by Jesus when He said (essentially love God and love people.
I get that!
But it’s what “love” looks like in a believer’s life. If I disagree with some one, is that unloving? I don’t think so.
I’ve used this illustration before, but if my daughter want”s to pretend she’s driving an automobile and used a wall receptacle to insert a key (this actually happened) I’m gonna swat her hand away (which is what I did). She cried and couldn’t understand my reaction until I explained to her that she could be electrocuted.
To me love, while important doesn’t trump obedience to the imperatives of scripture. They parallel each other.
“If you love Me, keep My commandments … He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me … If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.” John 14:15-24.
So it’s when it is used to excuse bad behavior (“love is love”) I tend to say “wait a minute”. That’s all
You’re no longer a cop…you can stop looking for who is breaking the law and enjoy the view.
There was absolutely nothing…nothing…in what Beth said that even inferred a lack of obedience.
To even infer so might be sinful in and of itself.
Count me in as a fan. And I totally get (and needed) what Beth posted.
The Christian life (let alone ministry) can be a bear.
As I’ve worked with people over the past 4 decades, it’s easy for me to be dismayed by all the pride, greed, selfishness, pettiness, etc. It can make me either angry or want to crawl in a hole. Or fight back with the same kind of weapons that are used against me.
But to love well, and to have experienced that kind of love…that’s really the pinnacle. The deepest and best of all human experiences.
But isn’t part of being a follower of Christ transformation? Becoming more like Jesus? I don’t want to be a fault finder. That’s not my job. I have enough issues myself to work on.
But I think the Bible tells us in James and Galatians, that there is a time to graciously correct a sinning brother or sister or one involved in bad theology
“ Galatians 6:1 – Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.”
James 5:19Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sin”.
And didn’t Jesus say “ Matthew 18:15-17 – Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.”
I’m not making a case for sniffing out each other’s faults. And, as I said, I am. Supporter of Beth. I just wanted clarification on her meaning of the word love.
.
You’ve done that and I appreciate that.
“But isn’t part of being a follower of Christ transformation?”
Of course it is.
But do we have to post a biblical definition of love with every comment?
I simply trust that Beth is well aware of the proper definition and received what she was trying to say…to do otherwise would be sniffing out some undetected fault.
This has been a strange and frankly, upsetting thread that I created for encouragement…
I think the key (for me) in Beth’s statement is the contrast of those people who play into a hateful world and those who choose not to hate but rather love. Maybe a bit like what MLK said: “I have decided to stick with… I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear. Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. ‘Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. Where there is love there is life.”
Hate can be easy…too easy sometimes. Love takes work, and ultimate love is something I can’t really pull off myself. For all the getting doctrine right and such (which is important), there is so much room for us to love others better.
I took it as a word from one weary warrior to another…we didn’t change much…but the fact that we have a few people who have loved us well and enabled us to love some others well…means that it wasn’t all for naught.
I think Beth’s been piled on enough already by her fellow Bible teachers. Her words are sincere and true; she’s had so many trials in her life and yet she remains optimistic and loving – a wonderful witness for Christ!
I pray that more people of faith listen to Beth Moore rather than (fill in the blank).
I’ve learned more about life and love from a little dog who loves me (and I him) than I ever learned from the Bible and Christianity.
I thoroughly love my tiny sweet pup and know that he loves me.
But he didn’t die on the cross to exchange my sin for his righteousness as God did in the atonement sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
Wonderfully said!
I dunno. Something in her post doesn’t sit right. Maybe I’m over thinking it. And for the record, I am a fan of Beth.
I need to think more about what she is saying. It sounds to me that her focus is love….and I get that. But that’s the line or word most people use that don’t necessarily want to obey scripture.
So I guess that’s what sent up the red flags for me.
The quote works for me.
Officerhoppy, I read the word from Beth within the framework written by Rick Warren:
“Our culture has accepted two huge lies. The first is that if you disagree with someone’s lifestyle, you must fear or hate them. The second is that to love someone means you agree with everything they believe or do. Both are nonsense. You don’t have to compromise convictions to be compassionate.“
Officerhoppy,
If someone I didn’t know had written your comment, I would lose it.
Instead I will try to be gracious.
What compels Christians to take a wonderful word and try to find the sin in it…thus ruining the word?
Beth is writing to Christians as a Christian…bewildered as I am at all the hate and strife within our own camp.
She’s telling us to focus …not on all the people that say awful things about us, but on those who embody Jesus to us.
Then she speaks of continuing to love despite the scars and wounds from others…again focus on how you’ve been loved and how to keep loving despite the pain.
“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself”.
It’s a thoroughly biblical word and one I needed to hear this morning.
” But that’s the line or word most people use that don’t necessarily want to obey scripture.”
So do we now forfeit using the word “love” because others have misused it?
I don’t mean to break it to you, but many Christians don’t want to obey Scripture either…most commonly, for example…”love your enemies”.
It doesn’t say that if you keep your pants on or only lust after the opposite sex that you’ve fulfilled the law…
I don’t want to disregard a main focus of the scriptures which seems to be summarized by Jesus when He said (essentially love God and love people.
I get that!
But it’s what “love” looks like in a believer’s life. If I disagree with some one, is that unloving? I don’t think so.
I’ve used this illustration before, but if my daughter want”s to pretend she’s driving an automobile and used a wall receptacle to insert a key (this actually happened) I’m gonna swat her hand away (which is what I did). She cried and couldn’t understand my reaction until I explained to her that she could be electrocuted.
To me love, while important doesn’t trump obedience to the imperatives of scripture. They parallel each other.
“If you love Me, keep My commandments … He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me … If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.” John 14:15-24.
So it’s when it is used to excuse bad behavior (“love is love”) I tend to say “wait a minute”. That’s all
Officerhoppy,
You’re no longer a cop…you can stop looking for who is breaking the law and enjoy the view.
There was absolutely nothing…nothing…in what Beth said that even inferred a lack of obedience.
To even infer so might be sinful in and of itself.
I always love the Lord, but I’m not always obedient.
The Lord always loves me, though He knows more than I how disobedient I am.
There was this incident involving a cross that freed me from the cost of sin and Him from charging me for it…that was because of love.
Count me in as a fan. And I totally get (and needed) what Beth posted.
The Christian life (let alone ministry) can be a bear.
As I’ve worked with people over the past 4 decades, it’s easy for me to be dismayed by all the pride, greed, selfishness, pettiness, etc. It can make me either angry or want to crawl in a hole. Or fight back with the same kind of weapons that are used against me.
But to love well, and to have experienced that kind of love…that’s really the pinnacle. The deepest and best of all human experiences.
Ok. I get that and I don’t disagree.
But isn’t part of being a follower of Christ transformation? Becoming more like Jesus? I don’t want to be a fault finder. That’s not my job. I have enough issues myself to work on.
But I think the Bible tells us in James and Galatians, that there is a time to graciously correct a sinning brother or sister or one involved in bad theology
“ Galatians 6:1 – Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.”
James 5:19Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sin”.
And didn’t Jesus say “ Matthew 18:15-17 – Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.”
I’m not making a case for sniffing out each other’s faults. And, as I said, I am. Supporter of Beth. I just wanted clarification on her meaning of the word love.
.
You’ve done that and I appreciate that.
“But isn’t part of being a follower of Christ transformation?”
Of course it is.
But do we have to post a biblical definition of love with every comment?
I simply trust that Beth is well aware of the proper definition and received what she was trying to say…to do otherwise would be sniffing out some undetected fault.
This has been a strange and frankly, upsetting thread that I created for encouragement…
PH,
Exactly.
Thank you.
Didn’t mean to upset you.
Just wanted clarification
I’ll back off.
Again, I support Beth
Officerhoppy.
It’s fine…it’s an open forum.
I just can’t fathom a mindset that looks for something wrong in every statement.
Doesn’t mean you’re wrong…just foreign to me.
I think the key (for me) in Beth’s statement is the contrast of those people who play into a hateful world and those who choose not to hate but rather love. Maybe a bit like what MLK said: “I have decided to stick with… I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear. Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. ‘Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. Where there is love there is life.”
Hate can be easy…too easy sometimes. Love takes work, and ultimate love is something I can’t really pull off myself. For all the getting doctrine right and such (which is important), there is so much room for us to love others better.
PH,
I took it as a word from one weary warrior to another…we didn’t change much…but the fact that we have a few people who have loved us well and enabled us to love some others well…means that it wasn’t all for naught.
She’s right.
I’ve been feeling weary lately, so her words were a balm.
I think Beth’s been piled on enough already by her fellow Bible teachers. Her words are sincere and true; she’s had so many trials in her life and yet she remains optimistic and loving – a wonderful witness for Christ!
I pray that more people of faith listen to Beth Moore rather than (fill in the blank).
I’ve learned more about life and love from a little dog who loves me (and I him) than I ever learned from the Bible and Christianity.
BoC,
I agree!
Muff,
God bless you and your little dog…pets are a gift from God.
I thoroughly love my tiny sweet pup and know that he loves me.
But he didn’t die on the cross to exchange my sin for his righteousness as God did in the atonement sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
Thank you Muff Potter for your post. <3
I remind myself of the reality this woman lived……….
“People are unrealistic, illogical, and self-centered. Love them anyway.”
“Do not think that love in order to be genuine has to be extraordinary. What we need is to love without getting tired.”~Mother Teresa
‘sweetheart?’ i would be rather hesitant to use that word for people that i don’t know
but then i don’t know much about Beth Moore, either
PWhat Beth said was very good. Thanks for sharing.