Ben Courson “Confesses” To “Mistakes”…Steps Away For Six Months

You may also like...

112 Responses

  1. LInn says:

    There are so many of these, and they are unfortunate. Either Christian leaders don’t want to submit to guidance, or they feel they can guide themselves. Worse, in some churches they are all covering up for each other. It’s so sad. 🙁

  2. Michael says:

    This is going to get uglier…

  3. Xenia says:

    Either Christian leaders don’t want to submit to guidance, or they feel they can guide themselves.<<<<

    That infers a hierarchy of some kind, a bishop over the churches, that has authority. But most evangelical churches don't want this sort of set-up, it's too Catholicky, and besides, these "great teachers'" hear straight from the Holy Spirit. Top that off with "Once saved, always saved," and men reaching celeb status before they are mature enough to handle it* and no bishop in sight, and you are going to have to expect this. There is no reason to be surprised.

    *I got that line from the R and F of MH podcast.

  4. Xenia says:

    He should replace the word “mistake” with “grave sin.”

    A mistake is accidentally putting a cup of salt in the cake batter instead of sugar.

  5. Michael says:

    Well said, Xenia…

  6. Xenia says:

    Fake elder boards don’t count, it the pastor picks them from among his homies.

  7. Linn says:

    Xenia,
    The better churches I have been in have had accountability to the elders. In “better churches”, that means 3/5 in the 48 years I have known the Lord. I fled one of the two that due to major issues with the leadership, and the other one fell apart over the pastor’s sexual sin (that everyone was aware of except me, apparently) after I moved overseas. It can happen, and it’s also hard to regulate. My current church has dealt with moral failure in the 20 years I’ve been there on the part of a pastor (non-sexual) and an elder (sexual). In both cases the resolution was first private, then dealt with in front of the congregation, and led to discipline/counseling. Both lost their positions but both were restored to fellowship. I am very aware that other things may have occurred that no one knows anything about, including the elders. And, large overseeing denominations have their issues, too (thinking of the Catholic church and all of its pedophile priests). We’re unfortunately very human, but God has given us a way…but, for many, it seems to be a “hard” way.

  8. Linn says:

    https://www.bencourson.com/

    From Ben Courson’s web site you can hear his confession and restoration plan (six months). I googled as I had never heard of him, but a lot of other people have!

  9. Xenia says:

    Hi Linn, I think the “good” churches do well because of the maturity of the lead pastor. A crook can subvert his elder board pretty easily, IMO.

    As to the Catholics…. oh boy, where to start. I’ll just say if they abandoned the celibate priesthood, and allowed priests to be wholesome family men, that would go a long way to solving some of their problems. Their current system attracts men who are happy to spend their life without women because they are not attracted to women, they are attracted to men… young men.

  10. LInn says:

    Xenia,

    This true, in reference to elder boards. Ours are appointed by the congregation, although we have a team that brings a recommendation. My church actually requires a six-month elder training course before anyone can even be considered. An exception is made for hired staff, but we seem to vet them pretty well (I was on one search team and pleased with how we went about the process and found an excellent candidate, currently one of our pastors).

  11. Xenia says:

    Linn, that seems like a good system, better than the lead pastor picking the board from among his friends.

  12. Em says:

    Losing position, but repentent/confessing and restored to fellowship? Sounds like the way our Lord would do it
    1John1:9

  13. Linn says:

    Em,

    Restored to fellowship, yes, if he is truly repentant and confessing, But, restored to service, especially the pastorate, I don’t think so. From what he says in mentioning “incidents” he sounds quite predatory and not safe to have around young women.

  14. Michael says:

    Restored to fellowship, but disqualified from leadership…

  15. Everstudy says:

    “Restored to fellowship, but disqualified from leadership…”

    I don’t disagree, but I’ve always wondered, “How long?”.

    If a kid in his 20’s or 30’s fails and repents is he disqualified for life?

  16. Jean says:

    Everstudy,

    Is 1 Tim. 3 ambiguous?

  17. Michael says:

    Everstudy,

    It’s a good question…we supported the restoration of a brother who sat for twenty years.

    The problem with the celebrity system is that deceit and license are so ingrained in the culture that real repentance and the fruits thereof are hard to find…especially when religion is the family business.

  18. Xenia says:

    They can just find another line of work, IMO. No one has the right to have the job they want to have. We act like a fallen pastor has to be restored to the pastorate or it’s the end of the world for him. He can find other work, and serve as a layman in his home church, which would be demonstrating the fruits of repentance. Sure, there can be exceptions, but these whiz-bang pastors with the movie-star photos and the bedroom eyes have a long way to go before they are free from this type of temptation, IMO.

  19. filbertz says:

    six months? this arbitrary figure is nothing more than a nice vacation in San Diego. Unnamed pastors and counselors? Name me one the Courson’s respect enough to submit to. In my opinion, he got a free pass on his divorce…now it’s time to own up to the dirt.

  20. victorious says:

    @Michael
    Lorinjlynch might be a good fit as your apprentice.

  21. Michael says:

    vic,

    I wouldn’t wish that on anyone…but I am bringing on an apprentice…but not this fellow…

  22. Everstudy says:

    “We act like a fallen pastor has to be restored to the pastorate or it’s the end of the world for him.”

    I think I’m picturing a guy that falls in his late 20’s, repents, and, as Michael said, sits for 20+ years. Not a celebrity, not a big church guy, just a guy. For 20 years he lives a live obvious of repentance and faithfulness to God. 20 years more mature in the faith. Is that guy permanently disqualified?

    I think it’s a case of black and white with shades of grey. I don’t think he would have to be restored, but do we close the door completely?

    Just thoughts.

  23. LInn says:

    it’s a tough one. Many years ago we had a pastor when I was an overseas missionary cheat on his wife. He did lots of other things in the church for about 15 years, except take any leadership/teaching role. He is now pastoring again. However, he was heavily mentored and held responsible for dotting his i’s and crossing his t’s. In another church I attended here in the States, we had a guy with a porn problem (he let everyone know, by the way, or no one ever would have), who continued his habit on any computer he could find, including the one at his new employer who attended our church. That was a no-brainer. All teaching responsibilities were stripped. I think he also got arrested for something else. As with everything, time and fruits of repentance will tell. One reality that is all too true-people with serious sex addictions are very hard to cure and the level of deception required to carry on a double life is high. Is that what you want in the pulpit or counseling your parishioners? In a society as sexualized as ours has become, I think it’s important for a church to know what their standard is. My personal standard would weigh heavy on the side of Scriptural disqualification, or restoration to ministry only after a v-e-r-y long (not six months!) period of mentoring/discipleship.

  24. Steve says:

    I think Michael explained it all @12:43. There can be no real accountibility in a celebrity run family business corporate church model. The more I see this, the more Im convinced that the healthiest churches are the small in number churches with a big in heart ministry mindset that takes nepotism very seriously. As a rule, churches should probably have strict rules that the children and spouses of pastors are not allowed to be employed by same church.

  25. BrideofChrist says:

    This sounds so Calvary Chapel. Why do Calvary pastors put their sons into ministries at all? A church should NOT be just another “family business”! I have heard that ‘Char’ Broderson is now assistant pastor at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa. I know he led a small church in northern California for a while, so why bring him on at big Calvary I wonder? If the sons have what it takes to be a true ‘ annointed’ leader, why do they need Dad’s help at all? I went to Calvary Chapel Vista when Char Broderson was the teenaged son of Pastor Brian there. When I taught Sunday School there at the first of three services I remember Char climbing on the roofs of the church buildings. The assistant pastors would try and couldn’t get him down! He was a pretty wild kid back then. These pastors’ kids grow up with a lot of special privilege and status even as children. Probably not ideal for cultivating a Christ alike character. Calvary seems to never learn that nepotism rarely is a good idea.

  26. SJ says:

    I was an elder at ACF and then a pastor. I was closely connected to the two pastors who were asked to investigate a similar accusation against Jon. Like Ben’s divorce and and this accusation, it was white washed. The Courson’s are very protective of their ministry

  27. Steve says:

    Calvary chapel is more concerned that a pastor may drink a beer occasionally than they are about pure unadulterated family business nepotism. This would be fine for a small family business but for a church it’s absolutely wrong. However Calvary Chapel to me is more of a family business using religion as it’s product and uses the status of a church to get the best tax incentives possible. I’m just waiting for the day when one of these big wig CC pastors repents and comes clean with the nepotism that is on full display and a complete embarrassment to the universal church.

  28. Michael says:

    SJ,

    If you are who I think you are…you know better than most.

  29. Wren A says:

    In my idealistic dreams, all of the money Ben earned while preaching would go to fund the grief/trauma counseling of his victims.
    Sell the whole dang church property and make good on caring for the injured.

  30. Sj says:

    As sad as this whole situation is, let’s pray he doesn’t do harm to himself and gets the counsel he needs

  31. victorious says:

    Let’s pray for the ones whose spiritual/ sexual identities have been twisted and traumatized by the self satisfying interests of Ben.

  32. Nathan Priddis says:

    I liked John Courson because he came across as a likable guy. He talked about the Scriptures and it made you feel good.

    Then he popped up in Costa Mesa snd I thought this is great. I’ll listen to his live Sun PM Revelation series. I certainly want to hear his thoughts.

    It was a grueling..grinding series. He had the audience repeat the book outline every night….and we all live happily ever after. Then we eventually got to the Crystal Sea, before the throne. I remember him saying that Heaven is peaceful…perfectly peaceful….and calm. I tuned out and left discouraged. The material was not only getting made up, but delivered painfully.

    Courson became a name lost to the sands of time. Didn’t know why he popped back out of Coasta Mesa. The CC maxim…where God guides..God provides, was now feeling a little obnoxious. Wow. Courson Gen2.

    Positive note: The state of CC prophecy interpretation functioned as a motivating factor.

  33. Michael says:

    Courson is the king of the preaching technique “read and ramble’…

  34. Em says:

    i must agree with Xenia @11:38 yesterday – “mistakes” HA! ! ! call sin – sin ….. own it! ! !
    and then humbly take your seat with the congregation and submit to growing by learning

  35. Em says:

    Sj, will join you in that prayer… he’s a good looking guy, may have had a little encouragement from somewhere

  36. Muff Potter says:

    BrideofChrist & Steve,
    Calvary Chapel and its well-heeled pastors could not exist without a handsome cash-flow.
    The attendees (serfs) provide that with their tithes and offerings.
    If they ever get wise to the scam, CC will dry up and blow away like a Walmart bag snarled in a chain-link fence.

  37. Michelle Taylor says:

    I have followed this community for quite a few years now, and while I have never commented or engaged in dialogue, I have been very appreciative of the difficult and laborious work being done to advocate for victims of different abuses. I have always appreciated the effort to cultivate a healthy and safe (digital)environment for people to dialogue, process, be informed, and find healing.
    As someone who grew up in the Calvary tradition, it has been a relief to see people willing to engage with much of the brokenness in an honest way.
    Also, as someone who has participated in other church traditions over the years but has been led to remain apart of Calvary, I feel an incredible weight to continue to faithfully confront the brokenness.

    BrideofChrist,

    I am saddened by your comment here. I find it very uncharitable. If you are truly curious as to why Char has taken a pastoral position at CCCM, I would encourage you to contact him directly, especially as you have made reference to having a relationship with him in the past.

    He and his wife did not simply “lead a small church for awhile”; they faithfully served, pastored, and nurtured a small church plant for 15 years. It was not a Calvary Chapel, nor was it funded by a Calvary Chapel. They gave of themselves diligently for the entirety of their season in that community.

    It would be a shame indeed if we as individuals were always viewed through the lens of who we were as young men and women. If we were never given the space or opportunity to grow, to mature, to have character developed in us through life experience, relationships, and Christ’s redemptive and restorative work.
    I can’t deny that many pastor’s kids grow up with special privileges, and I can’t speak to the privileges afforded to the pastor’s kids in your church community at that time. But I would challenge you to examine the motives behind your comment.

    I agree that nepotism can be extremely dangerous when it is used in a corrupt way. But Jesus included family members in his inner circle of disciples.
    If there are sinful behaviors, immature behaviors, abusive behaviors, or disqualifying aspects of a person— nepotism would be wrong—in any environment.
    But what about someone who is above reproach, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, has a good reputation with those outside the church, demonstrates the fruits of the Spirit? Someone who is seeking to obediently walk in the way the Lord is leading them?

    I have come to this community over the years to hear from different perspectives, to learn, so I can humbly and honestly engage in my church community. I hope that within this community there would be a willingness to speak in a way that is glorifying to the Kingdom of God, that is showing honor and respect to fellow image bearers of God, in love.

    ‭‭

  38. Michael says:

    Michelle,’

    Thank you for your comment and I receive it in the spirit it was given.

    I have nothing against Char Brodersen at all…as far as I know, he is as you say.

    I will say that many close to the situation are concerned about whether he can bear the load of that church with its massive budgets and expectations…and wonder if he would be considered if he were not Brian’s son.
    It’s not a position I would wish on anyone.

    I wish him and the whole family well…it’s been a challenging place for all of them.

  39. BrideofChrist says:

    Michelle, I also thank you for your comment. I suppose I was bothered by the hypocrisy I saw there at Calvary. The church was very, very strict with young people there, but apparently not so much with Char. I have a close friend who’s son attended the Calvary Chapel Church high school – he’s Char’s age. My friend’s son is on the Asperger’s spectrum. By definition, that means he is an “atypical” thinker ( he’s A computer genius who now travels all over the world providing anti- computer hacking services to companies). My good friend thinks that Calvary was much too strict with him and “broke his spirit and his faith, as she puts it. He left the faith as an adult and she blames
    the too strict discipline he received at Calvary Chapel High School for that. Besides teaching Sunday school at Calvary, I taught in the public schools in California for over 30 years, so I suppose if bothered me that the pastor’s son was given a free pass when it came to his bad behavior. I would see the asst. pastors trying to get Char off the roof and they were actually shaking their heads and laughing about It didn’t strije me as very funny at the time.. Fast forward to the day that
    young people become adults. There is a culture of Calvary Pastors being very harsh to sinners in the congregation, while many of them excuse all kinds of sinful behavior by many of the pastors themselves. Calvary Chapel is notorious for the immorality of some of their pastors and if you read this blog, you must know how true this observation is., Often immorality and bad behavior by the pastors,vwho are acvountable to no one, is just excused, or swept under the rug. Just letting you know where I’m coming from with my previous comment. I studied child psychology al
    along with education methods while earning my teaching credential and I learned that character is formed largely in one’s youth. I suppose that is why it bothered me at the time to witness the double standard I saw at Calvary Vista . I attended Calvary Vista church for 20 years, so I
    was an insider there for many years, and feel that I am entitled to make observations, and, or judgements based on what I saw and experienced there firsthand.

  40. Steve says:

    “I agree that nepotism can be extremely dangerous when it is used in a corrupt way. But Jesus included family members in his inner circle of disciples.”
    ————————
    Michelle, thank you for your comments. I actually know little to nothing about the Costa Mesa or Char Brodersen. I’m on the East Coast and I see the exact same pattern of nepotism in the churches here. I believe the entire Chuck Smith model of church is completely flawed. There should be no inner circle of proximity to a senior pastor. Right there is the problem in a nut shell. Comparing these pastors and their family members with Jesus and his family members is a stretch and even more dangerous than the notorious CC Moses model. Jesus didn’t operate a Franchise system using a corporate model of leadership. He was God in human flesh. And we know these pastors aren’t God. They aren’t Moses either. And they certainly aren’t apostles. I’m not sure why they think they are specially anointed and why they need an inner circle of disciples . Jesus is accessible to all of us. A good pastor would lead us to Jesus and not to themselves.

  41. The New Victor says:

    Not to “proof text” but not causing another to stumble, comes to mind. The appearance of nepotism?

  42. brian says:

    I really do appreciate people who try to change things it has to be really hard.

  43. Em says:

    agreeing with brian
    overall the comments on the Phoenix Preacher are reasoned and charitable to our brothers and sisters in Christ, But….
    there are times when it is necessary to call a spade a spade – a sin a sin…..

  44. Once again, this is one of those situations where the people of the church should just leave this church. But most won’t. Ben Courson is not worth following. Too much irresponsibility. Too much wreckage. And the leadership of ACF is dropping the ball. The man has issues.

  45. Duane Arnold says:

    As to nepotism… This is the policy of the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability:

    “Policy. XYZ Ministry permits the employment of qualified relatives of employees, of the employee’s household, or immediate family as long as such employment does not, in the opinion of the Ministry, create actual conflicts of interest. For purposes of this policy, “qualified relative” is defined as a spouse, child, parent, sibling, grandparent, grandchild, aunt, uncle, first cousin, corresponding in-law, “step” relation, or any member of the employee’s household. The Ministry will use sound judgment in the placement of related employees in accordance with the following guidelines:

    • Individuals who are related by blood, marriage, or reside in the same household are permitted to work in the same Ministry department, provided no direct reporting or supervisor to subordinate relationship exists. That is, no employee is permitted to work within “the chain of command” when one relative’s work responsibilities, salary, hours, career progress, benefits, or other terms and conditions of employ¬ment could be influenced by the other relative.

    • Related employees may have no influence over the wages, hours, benefits, career progress and other terms and conditions of the other related staff members.

    • Employees who marry while employed, or become part of the same household are treated in accordance with these guidelines. That is, if in the opinion of the Ministry a conflict arises as a result of the relationship, one of the employees may be transferred at the earliest practicable time.

    This, however, does not even begin to address the issues of pastoral confidentiality and pastoral accountability. Excuses and anecdotes regarding this or that ministry may be offered, but it does not alter the fact that this is bad practice. Our model is the Body of Christ, not a family business…

  46. Em says:

    Don’t think ive read ANY Scripture promoting nepotism….. ? ? ?
    David? Maybe, but his son was qualified, was he not?

  47. Nathan Priddis says:

    Here is a easy rewrite of ECFA’S policy that would immediately eliminate nepotism, or appearance of the same.

    …qualified employees related by blood, marriage or place of residence may be employed in any position, provided no material benefit, non-tangible goodwill or future benefit is exchanged.

  48. Steve says:

    Duane, does the ECFA make any distinction between a church and a ministry? My own theological bent is that while churches are ministries, not all ministries are churches. To me churches should have an even higher standard to follow than simply a ministry. Yet when a pastor picks their own board members there is no way a CC could ever pass ECFA nepotism muster.

  49. bob1 says:

    I worked at an org back in the 90s that belonged to ECFA. At the time, to be a member required a complete audit. Needless to say, a bunch of ministries weren’t allowed membership because they refused to do/release such an audit.

  50. Michelle Taylor says:

    Micheal,

    Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to dialogue with you all. I truly appreciate and respect the load you have chosen to carry in the work that you do here. I hesitated to even comment because I know there has been MUCH wrong done to many within this community by various Calvary Chapel’s, and it’s grievous.
    I seek in no way, shape, or form to justify or excuse the sins of the past; I would actively repent of the past sins of men and women who have abused their place of spiritual leadership in these ways.

    I only hope to offer a different perspective, a little hope perhaps, that the work which has been done to expose the hypocrisy and brokenness is acknowledged and received (by some). And to encourage some within this community that there are those who are seeking to confront the brokenness, the toxic patterns and behaviors, from within the community, while seeking to also care well for the individuals who are still active in these church communities.

  51. Michelle Taylor says:

    BrideofChrist,

    I understand, on a DEEPLY personal level, the frustration with hypocrisy. Thank you for graciously allowing me to dialogue. I agree that the double standard is wrong, and while I imagine it will continue to exist while there is sin in this world, please know that there are some who see it and who are working to combat it. Who are working to set up checks and balances, accountability and integrity.

    I’m truly sorry for this family you spoke about, and their son. These situations break my heart, as I know personally how devastating harsh treatment of children can be. Especially when there is not an informed or healthy understanding of what a child is personally dealing with, developmental differences, or even mental health. As a mother, I can confidently say that I am actively seeking to confront these things in a way that protects, nurtures, and empowers the next generation.
    I’m also truly sorry for any experiences you may have had in the past that caused pain, disillusionment, or discouragement. I know a digital apology from a stranger isn’t worth much, but it is said with sincerity.
    My hope is that we would not loose the capacity to ‘assume the best’, and that we would give space to see the fruit of a new generation’s endeavor.

  52. Michelle Taylor says:

    Steve,

    My personal tendency to never engage in these conversations is because I know there is always too much room for misunderstanding. We have no personal understanding of each other, no personal history, no personal context. So I humbly ask you to allow me to say that I in NO way meant to infer that Jesus’s example was one of exclusive-inner-circles with the senior pastor. That model, quite frankly, makes me sick— I would even add that as a woman it makes me doubly sick 🙂
    Or to infer in ANY way that these pastors and their families were like Jesus and his disciples.
    My point, which seems to have been poorly made, was that Jesus didn’t intentionally exclude individuals because they were his family. He chose to include family in the ones he called, raised up, empowered and sent out (women and men).
    I agree wholeheartedly that the models set in previous generations within the American Evangelical Church have not reflected the heart of Christ or his example of a Christ-like life. If you knew me, you would know how vehemently I push against exclusivity, entitlement, and special privileges. We as the church should grieve and repent of these practices.
    My intention was not to promote that culture, at all. My intention was to point out that if Jesus could include his family in his disciples, maybe we should consider that there is a healthy and Christ-like way to include family? I think about all the kings in scripture, and even James and John, the brothers of Jesus. It is a really beautiful discipleship model when the generations after you reflect the previous leaders’ hearts and want to carry it on in their contexts. It’s not always what the family members are called to do…but who are we to ring the nepotism alarm bells when we see a son or daughter wanting to carry on the good heritage of their parents and even seeking to build it up even stronger?

    As I said in my original comment, my main reasoning for even choosing to engage (because quite frankly I hate conflict) was because I felt that the statement made about a specific individual, and individual who had nothing to do with the original post, was not an accurate representation of that individual.
    I can confidently say that there is no personal agenda, actually even more than any type of “benefit”, there is FAR more risk. To assume the best about the attempts of our generation is to affirm and encourage our hearts to carry on the kingdom of God the best we know how as we seek Him and learn as we go…which is what every other generation before us has had to do also.

  53. Duane Arnold says:

    Steve

    ECFA does not make a distinction. Nepotism, despite anecdotes to the contrary, constitutes a conflict of interest writ large. At its heart, it perpetuates a false construct in which a “calling” is congruent with a familial relationship. This harms not only the leaders involved, but the church as well. I might add that currently, this practice of nepotism is almost entirely limited to evangelical and nondenominational groups.

    The remedy is simple. If a relative has a calling, let them follow it through education and training elsewhere. Their calling may then be seen to be particular to them, not to a local church dynasty…

  54. Jean says:

    Usually in Nepotism the idea is that the parent generation “created” something valuable. When the first generation wants to retire, they have basically 3 choices: (1) They can close the “thing” which has value, which would be value destruction and also could not provide any continuing financial support (like an annuity) for the retiring first generation; (2) They can sell the “thing” in which case they can realize the value they created above what they received through salary, benefits and profit sharing/dividends (if applicable); or (3) They can pass the “thing” down to the next generation, like any family business.

    A church not supposed to be a business, nor is it’s value something that the first generation created or owns. It is Christ’s thing/body and it is the Spirit which gives the growth.

    In my opinion, nepotism is a result or feature of the church growth movement , in which the organization, running and planting of churches has been adapted to the principles of ‘for profit’ corporate management. At the heart of nepotism is a spirit that says, “This is my church” or “This church belongs to my family.” So, let me put my wife and children on the payroll; let me appoint my own board and elders.

    It’s sickening when you think about it.

  55. pstrmike says:

    I think Pineapple said it best:

    “Ben Courson is not worth following. Too much irresponsibility. Too much wreckage. And the leadership of ACF is dropping the ball. The man has issues.”

    That to me is the bottom line. It is what I have told people for years, if you don’t like it, find a place where you can support the leadership and go there.

    As to nepotism:
    Not every son who takes over his father’s church is a case of nepotism. I wanted my son to take over for me, but many things have changed over the years, and I do not see that being a possibility. Among other things, he makes 3-4 times more than I do each month in his job; to take over for me would be a huge sacrifice, one that I would question whether God would truly require of him. And yet there are some who, unaware of his sacrifice would call a 15 yard penalty of nepotism.

    I guess I’m still reeling from the inquisition I encountered two days ago at the hands of a couple who are considering being a part or our church. One of them did not like some of my answers to the many questions they asked me. In short, we are not like the church they left, which is fine, but the implication of suspicion was strong in their responses to my answers. They were making assumptions and snap decisions about who we are without ever even visiting us. Perhaps some of their assumptions betrayed their own hearts……..

    At one point I told them that my wife and I have tried to be faithful to our church and community for almost 20 years to God’s calling, working within the framework of who comes through the door each week rather than creating some type of program where people are challenged and pushed to find their place to keep the machine running… I don’t think they really got it…..

    Basically, things are not always as we frame them, which we can only do from our own experience……. but then again, sometimes the are exactly as we frame. May God grant us the wisdom to know the difference.

  56. Em says:

    Jean @1:22
    exlnt assessment – IMHO

    pstr Mike, to be a member of the church you shepherd would be a blessing, but i don’t think that some folk don’t understand God fearing folks

  57. Em says:

    double negative? sorry
    i don’t think some folk understand God fearing folks

  58. pstrmike says:

    thanks Em. We’ll see if they show up and if they feel that they can live peaceable with the differences of who we are in contrast to their expectations.

  59. Steve says:

    Thanks Michelle for your thoughtful comments. They are heart felt and appreciated. We can certainly agree to disagree and I truly respect your comments . However, I do raise the nepotism alarm bells loudly not because I am judging any ones motives but because the practice is clearly a conflict of interest. All the best intentions will never remove that conflict. This is why many corporations have strict rules about family relationships. How much more should a ministry and ultimately a church try to avoid this appearance?

  60. BrideofChrist says:

    I agree with Jean’s above pist saying that “At the heart of nepotism is a spirit that says, ” This is my church” or ” This church belongs to my family.” I realisize now, that in part, this is what disturbed me when I witnessed the incident at Calvary Chapel with the pastor’s son clambering around on the roof of the church on a Sunday morning. It’s was a holy Sabbath day at our church as we were all going about God’s business at our church. And yet, here was the pastor’s son clambering around on the roof of the church as if if the roof was his own personal property. He didn’t respect the asst. pastor’s authority over him, or acknowkedge that the church was entrusted to their care. Instead, he seemed to be saying with his actions, ” This church is my own personal playground to do with as I please”. The assistant pastors seemed to think it was funny while I saw a teenaged kid seemingly staking out his territory. Worse, the asst. pastors were only making a half-hearted effort to get him off the roof whichbseemed to legitimize his behavior. The pastor’s son’s actions were actually quite symbolic, in a way, when you consider Jean’s statement about nepotism reflecting a personal feeling of ownership…And we naively thought it was Jesus’s church, or even our

    OUR church. The church in northern California that Brian Broderson’s son previously led for 13 years is a VERY small church – under a hundred people at the Sunday service or so I’ve been told. Numbers don’t tell the whole story, of course. Pastor Brian’s son may have special giftings that we haven’t yet heard about, but I can’t think of any reason why Brian Broderson would name his son as Asst. Pastor at the legendary CCCM Big Calvary other than nepotism. If a family believes that they do indeed ” own” A church, then the family members would logically believe that they are accountable to no one. Nepotism and lack of accountability may be two different issues in Calvary Chapel churches, but they are most certainly related issues.

  61. Steve says:

    EM
    It depends on what you mean for qualified. He has a HS diploma. As far as I know, he has no formal training. Just saying

  62. Kristie says:

    My parents were part of the group that brought Jon Courson to the Applegate Valley. I remember meeting Jon and his first wife when they were very young. She died tragically, but it later was revealed that Jon had had an affair with a woman who worked at the church. (I believe at the same time Jon’s brother was dating her daughter. Then she was dumped for engaging in sexual sin with the brother.) The woman (and her family) Jon was involved with was shunned and treated very poorly. Jon acted chastened and went away for like two weeks. Then he came back and was like I’m good. I was a teen at this time and was disgusted. Want to say that even as a younger child I commented to my mom that it seemed like Jon could talk for an hour about nothing and he cultivated adoration from church members. It turned my stomach over 30 years ago and it still does. It’s the same with the whole
    Courson family. I think when you get down to it it is a business, it’s their livelihood and they are not walking away from the money power and celebrity. I walked away from the church long ago and live in authenticity. Recommend Julia Sweeny’s Letting Go of God if anyone is interested.

  63. Michael says:

    Kristie,

    That’s pretty much my understanding of Applegate history…

  64. Ben says:

    Let him who is without sin cast the first stone

  65. Ben says:

    how do I delete the comment above someone help

  66. Michael says:

    Nobody is without sin and thankfully, no one here is taking scriptures out of context.

    What is being said is that sin has been and is being covered…sin that disqualifies a man from ministry.

  67. Michael says:

    I’m the only one who can delete comments…

  68. victorious says:

    @Duane
    Excellent article. Thank you. It lays out excellent discussion points for any team or group of people to lay out guidelines, boundaries and expectations.

  69. Steve says:

    Duane, this is a decent article but I’m convinced it will fall on deaf ears in CC system with their so called anointed pastors. CC operates contrary to wise judgment. If I’m not mistaken, wasn’t it even reported here that Chuck Smill himself was involved in some kind of disqualifying behavior early on in his ministry? I can not verify myself, but surely if Chuck can get a pass, then every single CC pastor will get their own pardons as needed.

  70. CM says:

    Steve,
    True. If the founder of their movement gets a pass on biblically disqualifying behavior, then it means every pastor in their organization will play that card. Now that Kay Smith has passed away, perhaps it is time that this story be fully told.

  71. Vaughn says:

    I personally have been blessed by attending ACF for over 20 plus yrs. I feel that God gives the increase. If the Lord is being praised, glorified, and His word is being preached and received in our hearts, God will bless it. Over these many years, I have seen literally thousands come to Christ and be baptized. I personally have grown in my understanding of the scriptures and do not regret sitting under Jon, Peter Jon, Ben and a host of other anointed pastors that have gone on to pastor their own churches. This other stuff that all you are talking about to me has nothing to do with me or what God has shown me in my walk to learn who He is and what He has done for me. These things will be between them and God, like the rest of us. In my case He has used the Courson family to teach us through the bible chapter by chapter, book by book and I am grateful. God has put a great treasure in these earthen vessels and He can use whoever He chooses to share the truth of His word. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Some of these things written even with good intentions can and will be used by the devil to question those who were genuinely saved that because of sins committed or assumed committed will nullify what they were taught and could walk away from their faith. Like what was stated, let the one without sin cast the first stone. We are going home soon, gather as many as we can to come with us! Blessings

  72. Pineapple Head says:

    To quote the classic saying, “If a person is nice to you, but not nice to the waiter, that person is not nice.”

    How many times have I heard a lout defended with the words, “But they are such a good teacher.”

    They may be a great teacher, but if they are too greatly compromised, they disqualify themselves.

    Julie Roys posted the latest on the Ben Courson saga. It does not offer a good look for either Ben or Jon.

    https://julieroys.com/oregon-pastor-ben-courson-alleged-sexual-misconduct/

    “But hey, he’s a good teacher…” :-/

  73. filbertz says:

    Vaughn,
    Is that the grape flavored or tutti-fruity flavored kool-aid?

    If your financial advisor made you a millionaire, but abused his wife daily, would you keep him?

  74. Vaughn says:

    If sin disqualifies you or me to speak the truth, that’s the lie of the enemy, he would love that to happen. People are setting up straw men and knocking them down. We don’t have to help the enemy by tearing the good that has come out of all us dirty rotten sinners saved by grace. Only God knows the intent of our hearts. Should we tell the thousands that have been saved, or brought out of depression and suisidal it doesn’t count because you were told the truth by sinful men! Only heaven will tell. Even though I struggle with my sin everyday, it will not stop me from sharing my testimony with other, that God is greater than our sin. If He can use a donkey, He can use me! Where is humanity in this spreading of these ministries. I hear let’s kick him while he’s down. God have mercy on all of us!

  75. Michael says:

    There are biblical standards for pastors.
    Period.

  76. bob1 says:

    ^^^^^^

  77. Character needs to exceed competency. It’s true God can work in spite of a screwed up leader, but He doesn’t work through that leader. God’s not going to look the other way to accomplish his will. No leader is perfect, but willful sexual sin and deception about that sin are far from kosher. Anyone who would seek to overlook such failings is only thinking of themselves.

  78. Vaughn says:

    Goodmorning, Lord bless your day, love you guys! Looking for our Savior’s return today!

    August 23

    No Fishing Allowed

    Bible in a Year:

    Psalms 113–115

     1 Corinthians 6

    [God will] hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea.

    Micah 7:19

    Today’s Scripture & Insight:

    Psalm 130

    Holocaust survivor Corrie ten Boom knew the importance of forgiveness. In her book Tramp for the Lord, she says her favorite mental picture was of forgiven sins thrown into the sea. “When we confess our sins, God casts them into the deepest ocean, gone forever. . . . I believe God then places a sign out there that says No Fishing Allowed.”
    She points to an important truth that believers in Jesus can sometimes fail to grasp—when God forgives our wrongdoing, we’re forgiven fully! We don’t have to keep dredging up our shameful deeds, wallowing in any mucky feelings. Rather we can accept His grace and forgiveness, following Him in freedom.
    We see this idea of “no fishing allowed” in Psalm 130. The psalmist proclaims that although God is just, He forgives the sin of those who repent: “But with you there is forgiveness” (v. 4). As the psalmist waits for God, putting his trust in Him (v. 5), he states in faith that He “himself will redeem Israel from all their sins” (v. 8). Those who believe will find “full redemption” (v. 7).
    When we’re caught in feelings of shame and unworthiness, we can’t serve God with our whole hearts. Instead, we’re restricted by our past. If you feel stymied by the wrong you’ve done, ask God to help you fully believe in His gift of forgiveness and new life. He’s cast your sins into the ocean!

    By:  Amy Boucher Pye

    Reflect & Pray

    Are you holding on to the false belief that God can’t possibly forgive you for some sin in your life? God wants you to allow His forgiveness to set you free!

    Forgiving God, You sent Your Son Jesus to save me from my sins and shame. Help me to live in the freedom of being fully forgiven.

  79. Michael says:

    Vaughn,

    Way to avoid reality…and all the Scriptures that tell you what a proper response to this is.
    “Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
    For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.”
    (1 Corinthians 5:2–5 ESV)

  80. Vaughn says:

    I am not disagreeing with you about what the scriptures say. Each of us will be held accountable, God is not mocked, what a man sows, he will reap. What was shared earlier is basically that all CC pastors are getting away with stuff! No, God sees the intentions of our hearts. None of us are getting away with anything. What I hear from the posts is that some people for whatever reason are drinking the poison of the enemy waiting for in this case Ben to fall over dead. It’s true we are to forgive one another or overlook in this context, because Jesus told us to or our sins would not be forgiven of us. The ministry of bringing hope to this generation I think is from the Lord. More people need to say it, preach it, even when we don’t feel qualified. What I’m standing up for is unsubstantuated accusations that were lumped into this that Chuck, Jon, Ben, whoever were and are getting away with this, that or the other. The world is saying, Look at “all” those Christians, dirty rotten sinners… Yep! Save by the blood of the Lamb. The mindset should be, saddened that a brother in the Lord is being takened down by the enemy, we dont shoot our wounded, we step up in the gap and continue the fight till the Lord takes us home.

  81. Linn says:

    Vaughn,
    When I first saw your post I was taken aback. It just seemed to be a cheery “oh well, all Christians sin, just let it go.” People in ministry are held to a higher standard than the those to whom they minister. See 1 Timothy 3. If the leaders of the flock aren’t setting a good example, who are the sheep to look to regarding how to live their lives? I’ve been in Christian service in some capacity or other, usually in a teaching capacity, since the first two years after I came to faith. I have always taken that role seriously. And, yes, I have sinned, asked forgivness, and learned from it. But certain sins-sexual promiscuity, purposefully mishandling church funds (for example, there are others)-disqualify a person from ministry, at least from that particular area.. It takes a great deal of deceitfulness to hide that kind of behavior, which means that the person is not qualified for the ministry.

    A tale of two churches (both of which I attended for a number of years):
    Church 1: A pastor who was found having an affair, and turned out to have had numerous affairs in a number of different churches. This church tried to hide the pastor’s sin, and just let him go on to another church. When his former church found out, the stuff hit the fan, and the church split. It has never really recovered, even after 35 years.
    Church 2: An elder was discovered to be in a long-going affair with a co-worker. He confessed to the congregation and sought restoration, to both the church and his family. Fast-forward ten years, the former elder and his wife are still together, although they have moved out of the area. He and his wife have a great relationship with their children and grandchildren, and visit their former church several times a year.

    The difference? Appropriate confession, repentance, supervised restoration NOT I’ll go do my own thing and be back to preach to y’all in six months.

    I’m a teacher. A high morality bar is set for me in the way I deal with my students because I am to steward them in their learning. There is a high bar set for therapists, counselors, doctors, bank officials…they all have major responsibilities and are to act accordingly. We should do better in our churches because we are serving the cause of Christ.

  82. Michael says:

    “What I’m standing up for is unsubstantuated accusations that were lumped into this that Chuck, Jon, Ben, whoever were and are getting away with this, that or the other. The world is saying, Look at “all” those Christians, dirty rotten sinners…”

    The world is seeing lies and hypocrisy .
    I can substantiate everything I wrote…and there’s more coming…

  83. Xenia says:

    The world is saying, Look at “all” those Christians, dirty rotten sinners…”<<<

    Maybe if we Christians stopped acting like dirty rotten sinners.

  84. filbertz says:

    It’s easy to teach something.
    It’s more challenging to live it.
    It is most challenging to exemplify it.

    The pastor must do all three. That’s why the bar is higher.
    Ben Courson failed to do two of the three.

  85. Linn says:

    filbertz,

    I’m saving that little ditty for the next time someone asks me why someone isn’t allowed to serve in a ministry. It’s a perfect , succinct explanation.

  86. Vaughn says:

    There a story in the bible that said that the religious leaders brought a woman before Jesus and said master, we caught this woman in the very act of adultery! We have all the evidence, all the graphic details, screen shots, it’s TRUE! So after Jesus convicted all of them and they dropped their rocks and walked away, Jesus that knew all things pertaining to the woman and the religious leaders and was under the law qualified to cast the stone because He was without sin… looked at the woman, picked up the biggest stone and with His might, slammed her in the head and she died… Right? Some of you will not stop till Ben ,Chuck, Jon are slammed. And then will you here from heaven, well done good and faithful servant?

  87. bob1 says:

    While Jesus was very merciful…he also told her to “go and sin no more.”

    Grace isn’t a free ticket to ride. While it is free, Jesus also asks us to line up our conduct as gratitude for His abundant and unmerited grace…

    There’s a guy named John Barclay who’s done the most extensive work on Paul, and I believe he notes this, in his work.

  88. filbertz says:

    the woman caught in adultery wasn’t a pastor nor, evidently at the time of her sin, a believer.

    Ben Courson is/was both.

    I don’t wish him harm, damnation, or even condemnation. I don’t think he is fit for ministry as a pastor, moral voice, nor hope generator.

  89. filbertz says:

    further, the woman caught was being used as a set-up to trap Jesus.

    Ben was using Jesus as a trap to set up women.

  90. Linn says:

    Vaughn,
    Let’s start with the fact that this woman wasn’t a church leader. She was also told to go and sin no more. That’s all we really know about her.

    There is always the principle that God forgives all when we are asking for His forgiveness through the merits of His Son. However, He also expects much from those who have been given much (Luke 12:48). Shepherds (i.e pastors or anyone else who cares for the people’s souls) are given a high calling:

    To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder and a witness of Christ’s sufferings who also will share in the glory to be revealed: 2 Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; 3 not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. 4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away. (1 Peter 5:1-5).

    When that calling is violated, there needs to be some kind of accountability in place. I believe all sin is covered by Christ’s blood if I am His child, but Scripture also tells us that God disciplines us for our own good. I personally believe that those who are full-time ministry are held to greater accountability. I’m a former missionary, now a teacher in a school, and active in children’s/women’s ministry in my church. I expect to be held to a higher standard because I am responsible for those in my care. Because of the privilege of ministry, I am ever seeking God’s way in my life and the way in which He would have me minster to others.

    You are arguing quite a bit for Ben, Chuck and Jon. I would say that getting them help, and taking them out of ministry, would help them and their church. Public ministry is a high calling, and not all who feel “called” should be in it. Too many churches do something that we call in private schools (the kind I work in currently) “passing the trash.” The approach is pretty much-this person messed up here. Let him/her go quietly somewhere else, and that will be less problem for us. Most of the time, these people do not learn form their past mistakes, and they go on to repeat the same behavior, or something even worse, in their next place of ministry/employment. A reputable church or other place of employment won’t do this. Those that do “pass the trash” end up damaging their reputation more than they would have if they had made a decision to deal with the person in a manner that would have said a) we forgive you; b) because we love you, we will offer you help c) we won’t allow you to minister until you get your act together, but we will help you find something you can do. if at any time we think you might be ready for ministry, it may not be as a pastor because the pastorate is a high calling, and you have strayed far from the requirements for that calling.

  91. Michael says:

    Vaughn,

    You’re badly taught and I can always tell when people around here go to that church.
    They think they’re bible students when they’re actually illiterate.
    Nobody is questioning whether or not these men can be forgiven.
    The issue is that they are disqualified from ministry and their victims have a right to be heard.
    There are coverups there that go back almost 50 years…and now God is shouting from the rooftops what has been done in secret.
    That’s biblical.

  92. Michael says:

    fil,

    Well said!

  93. Michael says:

    Linn,
    Well done!

  94. Linn says:

    Vaughn,

    I want to acknowledge how painful these situations are, not just quote Scripture. The ones I have been through have brought deep heartache, for both the pastoral/teaching staff involved, and even more for their families. Sometimes the victims often never recover. You question authority, you question God, some even leave the church. That’s why it is SO important not to let people get away with “I’ll see you in six months.” If they think those kinds of problems can be resolved so easily, than they have a greater issue than either of us could ever imagine.

  95. Em says:

    Vaughn @2:09, “well done, good and faithful?’
    YES, YES YES ! ! !
    While the sinner ( all of us) can/should cpnfess and re-rstablish fellowship, one cannot live a compromising lifestyle and claim a leadership role!
    In this case “mistake?” No grevious before our God SIN

  96. Jean says:

    Michael at 2:34 pm,

    Folks, don’t pass over that comment. There are horribly doctrinally illiterate people who think, and even collect followers to themselves, that they are biblical and Bible followers, Bible teachers, pastors and small group leaders, who in reality believe and teach outside orthodox biblical Christianity.

    In times like today where there are popes on every street corner, everyone is responsible for their own soul and for the souls of their household to learn the Bible and carefully choose their church.

  97. Vaughn says:

    Like what Michelle stated in an earlier post about posting with having room for misunderstanding. What I have been trying to bring to this table of conversation is not to argue scripture or to say pastors are not to be held to a higher standard. What I’m saying is I don’t hear the spirit of compassion, empathy or sadness that the devil is taking away an avenue of hope and encouragement to this generation that is so desperately needed. Jesus as they were pounding the nails in His hands and feet prayed, Father forgive them for they know not what they are doing. May Jesus be praying that for some if not all of us? He told us to pray for one another, even our enemies. Some post, because I don’t know the intent of their heart seems like they are preying, not praying. So if you consider Ben a brother in the Lord or an enemy, we need to pray. Heavenly Father, Lord Jesus, Holy Spirit, we bring all of these things before Your throne of grace. Spirit will You intercede for us because You know what is true and not true. Lord will You bring Your peace, love, joy and hope of heaven into our hearts knowing that You are in control of all things in these dark days we are living in. Thank You for hearing this prayer. May You be glorified in all of our thoughts and actions and we pray this in the Name of Your Son Heavenly Father, our Lord and Savior, Jesus, amen.

  98. Anytime a leader is a threat to members of the body, my first reaction is to get them removed from their position ASAP. It doesn’t mean I don’t feel sad for the leader, but my desire for protection of the flock comes first. Ben needs real help, and I hope those around have the courage to help him. But Ben disqualified himself as a shepherd when he chose to prey upon the sheep. It doesn’t matter to me how “gifted” he may be, he crossed lines that he should have never even wandered close to.

  99. Alan says:

    When our religious kings offer the same kind of repentance with language like David offered in the Psalms then I’ll consider their ‘mistakes’ with more generosity. But still if shepherds harm the sheep for their own appetites then away with them.

  100. CH says:

    It’s a total power thing. Ben’s not repentant. He was calculated and manipulative. I recall in several teachings at church that he made the comment “I don’t see myself as a pastor, but more of a motivational speaker.” He said that with intention. To justify his sin to women, and also just in case he got caught. I’m outraged over this. And ACF and Jon sparing the rod is not loving or helpful at all to Ben. Unfortunately, Jon has stepped down as pastor, and his narcissist, charismatic son brings in the dough. Jesus would be flipping the tables in this church for turning it into a business. Hope Generation is lead by a Lie Generator. Sincerely, an already depressed person struggling with their faith… again.

  101. Cathy Heim says:

    I Wil be praying for you Jesus loves you and forgives you hope you have a blessed weekend, Ben

  102. Unknown says:

    Today my heart is broken for Ben, the women, Jon & Tammy, and ACF. Pornography is an addicting but easily concealable sin and that leads to depression as the cycle of sin repeats for years unnoticed by anyone else. You look, you feel guilt & shame, repent and vow to never do it again, and then you look again. It’s no wonder he said he struggled with depression for so many years. In his position I can understand the fear of confessing and seeking help. What would people think? What would he do for work? His entire life and all he’s ever known is being in ministry and praised for being such a great guy. No way he could tell anyone…at least that’s how it must have felt. It must have been terrible and he probably didn’t realize the harm he was causing the women because in his mind he was likely just pursuing women like any other guy but failed to understand because of his position it was different. The women probably feel disappointment and betrayal more than anything that this guy who seemed so Godly and was supposed to be a leader had these issues.

    I struggled the same way and the fear of telling someone was the only thing that led me to thoughts of suicide. Nothing scared me more than the thought of others knowing how sinful I really was and it only fed my addiction. By God’s grace I was aware enough of how bad my sin was that I stayed out of leadership positions and did not enter into any relationships and have never touched another woman or anyone sexually. The idea that it takes lots of deception is untrue, no one ever suspected and no on ever asked me if I struggled with sin. All that was needed is to simply not voluntarily tell anyone and no one suspected. In fact, I often confessed I was a terrible sinner and struggled with sin and never lied to anyone but most never assumed it was something bad and probably thought I was just humble and talking about something that appears small like pride (which really isn’t small).

    I think Ben is disqualified from being a pastor/elder in the short-term (at least a few years) but that does not mean he has to leave ministry. If his repentance is genuine then he should publicly confess that he failed, seek reconciliation with the women and his church and spend time really sitting under the authority of others. If he does this and truly repents one direction I can see him going is to use his platform to speak about the temptations of sexual sin, pornography, and helping other men and pastors find help. That doesn’t mean being an elder in the church and means being under the authority of other pastors.

    Ben may not realize it now but this is the great opportunity he has ever had to point others to Christ. By embracing the public shame and guilt he can show that although he has failed Christ, Christ has not failed him. He can use this opportunity to point to the grace that is found only in Christ.

    Praying for everyone involved.

  103. Christy Benoist says:

    So sad..sin is easy to get into yet SO very hard to get out of..like quicksand. The Lord, sees all..our sin..our intentions, our very heart & soul. Be sure our sin will find us out. So frightening..so humbling. We will stand before our Beloved King & Savour Jesus..I just so deeply desire to not be ashamed when I stand before our Mighty, Just, Holy God. If we (truely & humbly may I say) confess our sins He is faithful & just to forgive us our sins & cleanse us from all unrighteousness. MARANATHA, In Jesus, Christy

  104. greg says:

    the issue for me is not he who is without sin cast the first stone, nor do I judge Jon, Ben, Joe or any others that are complicit in the coverup of Ben’s sin by having knowledge of it and staying quiet about it. God can, will and indeed is dealing with that even now. We are to judge not. My issue is the coverup itself. What about these young women who are scarred for life by Ben’s behavior. I am concerned about the hypocrisy of being taught for many years by Jon to quickly repent of your sins, be forgiven and move forward and yet in this instance Jon chooses coverup. I know many people who are stumbled by the hypocrisy of it all. That is, pastors teaching one thing and living something else and then to magnify all of that, staying completely silent regarding the sin. There is a glaring lack of transparency from ACF regarding this confessed and agregious sexual sin of Ben preying on young girls in the fellowship. I personally have spoken to two of them and the offense is far greater than anything Ben shared in his video. There has not been a single word to the fellowship at ACF from leadership regarding this sin by the senior teaching pastor, Jon’s son no less. Read 1st, 2nd Timothy, Titus ,2nd Corinthians and James 3:1 and see what Paul has to say about church leaders and the standards they are held to . A little leaven, leavens the whole bunch. When this type of sin from the pulpit by the leader of the church is not dealt with many sheep ultimately end up getting attacked and get eaten by the wolves. We are certainly seeing that. For this reason Paul warned about this before he passed from the scene. This must be dealt with in full transparency. My prayer is that God will prompt Jon to ditch the coverup and lead the confession of this sin….in its entirety, that there can be forgiveness and restoration in the body….now that’s biblical. May God give us all wisdom in these things.

  105. Michael says:

    “For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?”
    (1 Corinthians 5:12 ESV)

  106. Em says:

    Greg, here’s a ponder for you…
    Judge vs discernmenr

  107. Greg enright says:

    Exactly

  108. Officerhoppy says:

    Greg
    Thanks for your perspective. The judge not lest you be judged is not the issue in this case. No one is judging Ben or jon. But we all have to make decisions especially in leadership. And that requires prayer and as EM said discernment. The judging to the point of condemnation is the point of the scripture you referred to. At least that’s how I understand it.

  109. Greg enright says:

    That’s right we are not called to judge however we are indeed called to be fruit inspectors within the body of christ and the ongoing coverup of Ben’s sexual sin of preying on young girls in the fellowship by the leadership at ACF is rotten fruit. Time for transparency at ACF. There will never be true reconcilliation without repentance. May God give Jon wisdom

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.