Breaking: Sweet Silenced
Calvary of Albuquerque has asked Leonard Sweet not to speak in their building.
ODM Apprising Ministries posted this;
“Today however, I was contacted by Nelson Walker, who is a pastor at Calvary of Albuquerque (CoA) where Skip Heitzig is Senior Pastor.
What Pastor Walker told me was that CoA happens to have “beautiful facilities” that are also sometimes used by others, which would be the case of this National Worship Leader Conference. He told me that this was not a CoA event, but even so, Leonard Sweet has been asked “not to speak though he will be in attendance.”
Pastor Walker said that CoA was in not supportive of the Emerging Church.
Fear and loathing wins again…
How absolutley rude and controlling.
Just when I was headed for the front row….
I have to slam my fingers in the car door again…
well, for one thing, it is their right. However, I think they should have settled this long before now. It seems one thing consistent about CofA is that they change their minds….
Agree with London.
What a sideshow and a bunch of buffoons.
I hope someone at least comps Sweet’s expenses.
aparthide is alive and well
Ignorance wins again!
It may be their right but it’s an obvious kneejerk reaction because of behind the scenes heat. Allowing a :: guest :: to speak is kind and collegial. What next, a Burqa!?
I would pull out of the venue altogether.
Michael posted this quote Monday evening, it seem fitting to post it again.
“Involuntary ignorance is not charged against you as a fault; but your fault is this—you neglect to inquire into the things you are ignorant of.” Augustine
Heitzig just breathed new life into the ODM movement…they are now empowered as never before.
Who though do they influence outside Calvary Chapel?
Centy…UGM…
Any of the independents…plus any of the conservative denoms.
To see someone actually buckle is going to be one big celebration for them.
Why is Leonard Sweet considered to be heretical by the ODMs? (I had never heard of him before.) Does he deny the Trinity or something? What’s his most grievous “heresy?”
Rhetoric and public opinion matter…
Xenia,
I’m not sure.
Before the new book I just read I couldn’t understand of word of what he wrote…way too philosophical for me.
Believe,
They didn’t matter a whit when Heitzig needed to step down…
well, i managed to find my way to “Napkin Scribbles” with Leonard Sweet – he was saying that tables (dining and kitchen) are a thing of the past – imagine!!! – so i didn’t bother to listen to any more of such blasphemy – smiley thing of choice here
Sweet is no heretic…
The ODMs do appear to have won. But CCAbq is just being true to who they have been as long as they have existed. This is nothing but a careless error of communication where someone said yes before they checked into the matter. Unfortunately they are unwilling to ‘swear to their own hurt.’ So now they are in the place of appearing to have broken an agreement. But who really knows what was in their original contract. CCAbq may have reserved the right to censor speakers.
Either way.. it is one more mess and one more reason for the flight of the Phoenix Preacher.
http://deimos3.apple.com/WebObjects/Core.woa/FeedEnclosure/georgefox.edu.1952351666.01952351672.3675170377/enclosure.mp3
napkin scribbles link – should anyone be interested
Heard Sweet at the Nat’l Conf on Biblical Preaching in Houston in Jan 2009. Kay Arthur, Walter Kaiser, Elmer Townes, James Davis–not what you’d call emergents. Sweet was imho the most moving speaker there. I.e., he’s the one whose words I’m still thinking about.
And I’m a guy who owns nearly everything kaiser has published, and nothing by Sweet.
“They didn’t matter a whit when Heitzig needed to step down…”
He may not have stepped down…but look at the pastors who have stepped up and learned from the example you exposed.
I am pleased John Piper has not acquiesced to the complaints about Rick Warren at the Desiring God Conference.
I wonder if Warren had not passed that ohone call though, what might have happened.
If I was Warren, and I had already been invited, to THEN be quizzed like a first year seminary applicant on orthodoxy might be a tad insulting.
Warren actually went up in my book in his rsponse, and I was a little saddened to see Piper make that call then rush to the video to try and accomodate his followers who were upset. Again, make the call before you invite the man and the controversy hits.
well, i got time to listen to the whole “Napkins Scribble” above and i’m thinking this man (Sweet) loves our Lord and the Church
It sounds like Bryson got someone’s ear at big Calvary and the sh.. hit the fan on the way down to Skip.
I listen to Sweet a couple of years ago when he was invited to speak at Concordia Seminary. His talk was fantastic – even got some of the Lutheran seminarians movin’ in their seats. 🙂
This is out of Bryson’s league.
This is the result of the ODM’s raising enough hell to get people emailing and writing CCABQ and Skip ain’t going to alienate a shrinking donor base.
So your point is that Leonard Sweet is a biblically sound teacher? Ha ha. Tell me you’re joking on this one. Check out Sweet’s quote from Quantum Spirituality’s forward:
“Those who have taught me how to catch the tail winds of energies whoosing from new spiritual jet streams are: ….Willis Harman, Matthew Fox, Ken Wilbur…”
Harman is called the father of the New Age even by Christianity Today. He’s author of Global Mind Change–scroll down to see his book listed here: http://www.intuition.org/psilong.htm). Sweet thanks Matthew Fox, a defrocked Catholic priest and author of Coming of the Cosmic Christ–a staple in occult and New Age bookstores. Ken Wilbur is so whacked out into the occult it takes your breath away. See his Integral site and his mind control videos on YouTube. He’s hard core. And Willis thanks them for their spiritual influence.
So if Leonard Sweet thanks three hard core occult New Agers for helping him “catch the tailwind of energies wooshing from new spiritual jet streams”, you’re OK with that, are you? It must just be an ODM thing? Sheesh. Thank God somebody shed the light on Calvary Chapel’s inclusion of Sweet. That one quote doesn’t even scratch the surface.
I’m not interested in out of context quotes about people that Sweet has read.
Show me where he has denied any cardinal Christian doctrine.
As I said before I have an unpublished (as yet) book by him that is excellent Christology…show me something other than bad reading habits.
‘even got some of the Lutheran seminarians movin’ in their seats.’
MLD,
Right.
Movin’ toward the bathroom.
🙂
Ken Silva buys groceries at Albertson’s, or Kroger’s, or whatever the equivalent is where he lives.
Albertson’s sells some goods loaded with transfats, which have the power to clog your arteries up like candle wax.
Therefore, Ken Silva promotes and approves of transfats.
Good scholarship, no?
Wow BrianD, guess I’ll have to have the grand pooba of the official ODM movement sign you up. You really nailed it.
Oh, goodie…. ^
Bob Sweat will NOT be uninvited to E-Fest. We don’t roll like that!
June 5th……. Don’t forget!!!!
Ken, I don’t know WHY I referenced you…but now that I have while it wasn’t my intent to take a shot at you personally, my comments stand.
That said, have I misjudged what you and other online discernment ministries are really all about?
Michael, if and where I was wrong in this, feel free to correct me.
Does any of this have to do with Scientist’s recent claim that life exists on Mars?
Brian,
Perfect.
Here’s another.
I went into the local Barnes & Noble.
I walked through the occult section.
So, I endorse the occult.
BrianD,
The only thing I see is that they were asked to demonstrate where Sweet denied a fundamental doctrine of the faith and were unable to do so.
Thus, you were correct.
They had an opportunity for civil discourse…instead they broke wind in our faces and left.
Sometimes I feel like we all fall into the trap of thinking everything is important except everything.
I don’t have time to do the leg work on Sweet, but I rarely take anyone’s word without doing my own research. Some of Sweet’s pals are problematic and I’ll just leave it at that….
————————————————————————
Ken Silva,
You had a chance to take the high road and present a case and you chose to do otherwise… however, unless you open up your blog to dissenting comments, it is inconsistent for you to post them here, even if it is only a smart mouthed drive-by.
————————————————————————————————————–
If this had been settled in the planning stages, none of you would have anything to complain about. What a PR disaster for the Skippy…. but again, it is their building, it is their right…
What a graceless thread. Some of you sound as nonsensical as any of the ODMs that you mock and you are too blind to see it.
“instead they broke wind in our faces and left.”
Ok now there is a picture.
Mr. Silva, grow up
I should clarify that was a comment directed at the totality of that particular individual’s website not just this one comment. To think there is a contemplative boogie man hiding behind every bush is, well childish. I have been childish, still am at times, people have told me to grow up, I still need to be told that. This constant fear mongering waiting for the NWO to lead into the “anti Christ” (TM) type of tripe sells books, and ruins lives. People wander in a fog waiting for the “end times” to start, well we are still waiting and their track record is 0 for 0. So I was wondering Mr. Silva are you like Jack who thinks there is a Jesuit voodoo doctor waiting to cast some spell. Dont take my word for it, go read his site and ponder the world they live in. I know I lived that world.
If I come across as a bit bitter do ODM’s etc well I am, I am sure Mr. Silva believes what he does is really doing the “Lords work”, I have always wanted to do that, the Lords work, but to be honest, I was never good enough. I hear people say faith alone grace alone etc, beg to differ, you better be good enough, and grace, well it may be God’s provision, but from the faith community, dont ever need it. Folks I know I am not the only one that sees this.
CCAbq is so tight they could mint coins in their stool.
“Stick a lump of coal up their @ss and in a week you will have a diamond ” Ferris Bueller
Folks,
Please do your homework on Leonard Sweet before blessing his work.
As far as ODM’s – they do the home work most are unwilling to do. Several ODM’s were birthed out of churches who fell into deception because the leadership didn’t do their home work.
And if you think your church is not under attack, your better do your home work.
This makes me sad for a number of reasons, least of all the fact that a CC would be so worried about its image that it would cut a speaker out of a conference that is not even theirs.
“Some of Sweet’s pals are problematic and I’ll just leave it at that….”
Some of my pals are problematic too. 😉
Problematic is my middle name 🙂
Some of Jesus’ palls were problematic. This whole thing makes me mad.
Jim…let’s discuss it civilly. Lay out your concerns with specifics.
Michael did ask you to show where Sweet denied Cardinal Doctrines of the Faith…
It’s one thing to test Theories…and to be Philosophical…quite another to deny the precepts of Christ.
In my own personal journey…having a philosophical mind (nowhere near as Philosophical as Sweet from my limited readings of him…wow…he is really Philosophical!…I find myself asking all kinds of questions and exploring all kinds of areas…some questions make people uncomfortable…sometimes my “theories” or my philosophical contemplations are in error…however, sometimes they lead me to a deeper understanding…and peace. They help me challenge the “status quo” and help me resolve things that stumble me. I always end up back to Faith (a bit stronger…a bit closer to “right”…after testing and finding what’s “wrong”…) God convicts me of sin during the whole process…and when I repent…I’m a small step closer to God.
Sweet may just “tick” differently than the rest of us…and his journey may lead him through “Lands” most would never travel…doesn’t mean he is not our Brother.
However, show specifics of where Sweet clearly takes a stand against Christ…where he is clearly off the Reservation…and I’m with you…in the sense that he would need to be called on the specifics…and called to repentance (in love).
Dread…ROTFLMAO!
Dread,
Lm@o
If I throw out all of what I gained from reading authors who had problematic friends, whatever knowledge that I have gained would be severely lessened. I’m sure that I am a problematic friend to some.
This whole thing with Sweet makes me sick. I find more problems with where he was scheduled to speak than I do with him. I’m sure that Sweet’s association with George Fox University (A Quaker college) troubles the ODM’s. I have some problematic friends that are professors at GFU. I have some real difficulties with some of the positions they take, but would never for one moment doubt their love for the Christ. I thank God for my association with them, and the challenge they brought to my life.
And by the way, I have the privilege of seeing R. Kent Hughes this weekend. Kent has some problematic friends. He spent a number of years as a Friends Church pastor before going to Wheaton.
If I sound a little troubled, its because I am!
One more thing (for now).
I find the revered Johnny Mac problematic. I would never cast doubt on his faith, but rather that he call his radio program “Grace to You”.
I better get out of the flesh.
Bob,
What exactly is problematic with Quaker theology, if you don’t mind saying? I’m curious is all.
I was just gonna ask – Am I the only one who reads things I disagree with? Is it that bad to read these things, as long as we assure that Scritpure is the final authority? Is our faith so fragile, that even hearing a slightly different idea will cause it to crumble?
Josh…I’m with you on that one.
Josh,
No, no, yes.
pzz
Josh,
no, no and yes.
pzz
Puz
Problems with Quaker Theology?
First of all, let me say, that even though I spend 30+ years of my life in the Quaker (Friends) Church, I have problems with some of their theology. But to answer your question, in short, contemplative would be the taboo word.
No practicing the 2 sacraments is another. Although many Friends Churches now do.
I remained in the Friends Church, like most of the ministers that I knew, because I accepted Christ at a Friends Church, and was not part of a conference that was steeped in much of the “traditions” of Quakerism. Few people know, but there are about 5 different varieties of Quakers. They range from very liberal to quite conservative theologically. The Friends Church conferences that I served in were of the Wesleyan Armenian tradition, hence my disagreement.
Josh
I’m sure C.S. Lewis would not be allowed to speak in many churches today.
Bob,
Love your comment about C.S. Lewis. His pipesmoking and continuous enjoyment of ale would be a problem in some circles!
You make a good point that there are different threads within Quakerism. I don’t think most people on here understand some of the Anabaptist distinctives. Or are they not considered Anabaptists?
It’s true with any church tradition — not every church is interchangeable with everone other one. I hate it when people stereotype whole denominations. It strikes me as pretty mindless, usually. Especially if they’re mainline or liberal.
Which is worse — attending a church with a squeaky clean doctrinal statement with an abusive pastor or power structure that crushes the sheep, or a more mainline situation where that doesn’t happen?
Does Jesus only care about doctrine?
I think I know the answer.
Lute, I agree with you…I’d rather see it lived out…than merely talked about.
Doctrine is just words…if you ain’t living it.
If you don’t live out the beliefs…then do you really believe what you’re talking about?
Talk is cheap. Show me…and tell me…but make sure you show me…or the words don’t mean much. just my take…FWIW.
Hello Guys,
I see Silva has graced us with his presence and is as witty as ever. Anyone interested in some of Silva’s antics is invited to cruise over to my site and search “Ken Silva”. It will be revealing.
Phil
Dread is my problematic friend. You can see why by his earlier posts
test
hmmmmmmmmm