Brodersen Confirmed As Costa Mesa Pastor
Don Stewart read a press release on Pastors Perspective from the board of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa affirming that he will be the senior pastor of the church.
The public memorial service for Chuck Smith will be Oct 27 at the Honda Center in Anaheim.
Crap, I knew I should have stuck around. Brian and I used to be tight. Now I gotta get in Francis’s inside circle, and God knows that won’t be easy….
JJS,
I gave Frank your number…
Cool, but my Latin’s a bit rusty.
You can borrow mine…just had it cleaned.
Wishing the people who attend & their new pastor a new and exciting adventure following Jesus and reforming The Calvary Chapel Movement
I don’t know anything about him but I do remember attending a CC woman’s one-day retreat and his wife Cheryl spoke and what she said was very beneficial to my soul. She spoke on the theme “charm is deceptive.” That was probably fifteen years ago, if not more, and I still remember it.
I hope things get better for CC and may God grant them peace through seeking justice and reconciliation.
I am deeply upset because I did not sign up in time
http://www.tmstrangefire.org/
I guess I’ll have to miss it, I could watch it online but I think I would rather pull out my network cord.
brian, you’re hilarious!
I’d like to get a bunch of my charismatic friends to attend, synchronize our watches, and flash mob some singing in tongues.
As I watched Chuck Jr. speak about his father I noticed how much the inside of the church has changed. More important changes are coming and this is one of them. I will always have a fondness for CCCM as it was where I came to faith and so many in our family were saved as a result.
While many will continue to find fault with the CC movement regardless of what happens my time there has run its course. I wish them well during what I can only imagine will be a huge transition period.
I would have been shocked had he not been confirmed as the senior pastor. He’s been there, been in the pulpit ever since they returned from England. I think most folks there assumed he would be the next pastor.
Also, it would have been quite strange having Cheryl Brodersen leading the HUGE women’s ministry and the church being pastored by someone other than her husband.
Good, glad to see it. Heitzig would have been a disaster. While Chuck Jr. would be my first choice for CCCM, the fundamentalist hell would freeze over before that happened.
Brodersen seems to be a much better choice than the many bad options within CC. He seems a much more reasonable moderate than a hard-line Taliban CC Traditionalist. Though, Bordersen did rehire Flores, which was a huge error in judgment. Hopefully he’s learned from that big mistake.
Who is Flores??
My guess is that it doesn’t really matter who is at the CC helm just so long as business continues as usual and cash flow is not compromised.
By the lack of comments, I am guessing that most people assumed that Brodersen was the man for the job. I think had it gone in any other direction, then the “stuff” would have hit the fan. He seems the best fit for the job.
If I lived in the area, I would attend the memorial service. I would imagine the Honda Center will be packed out.
You guys are funny today! Am I in the right place? Michael cracked not 1 but 2 actual funny jokes. In a row!
Xenia, I don’t think charm is deceptive after 15 years. The shelf life of charm is about 45 minutes.
brian, your first line is a paradox. Can’t happen. I wish it weren’t so.
CK- That sounds like a riot. I’d do that.
erunner, you have to have lodge seating for some of those white pasty singers. Loosens the wallet.
Nonnie, do you think any CCCMers will gravitate to Harvest OC? Greg’s a lot more charismatic imho.
Scott, if I could take off work I’d love to go. With all of his fault I really liked the guy.
“Nonnie, do you think any CCCMers will gravitate to Harvest OC? Gregās a lot more charismatic imho”
Greg may have more charisma than Brian, but Brian will be there for his congregation. Where will Greg be?
Nonnie, I’m just wondering if some people will be drawn more to Greg since he’s right up the road. Some, like me, may feel closer to Greg than to Brian.
Gary, by all means, go where the Lord leads you. I’m nowhere near So. Ca. so I won’t be going to either.
I do believe that Brian is more of a “pastor” than Greg.
Greg is a great communicator/evangelist, but I’m guessing he is not around too much for his congregation(s). (maybe I am wrong)
To me a “pastor” is someone who marries, buries, visits, associates with his congregation, as well as teaching them God word.
You’re right about Greg and I’m not near there either. I was just wondering. I go to a much better church anyway. It would be a step backward for me to ever go to a CC again.
Nonnie, great observations. Of all of the communicator/evangelists/multi site celebrities, I think that Greg sets a high standard. When compared to guys like Fusco and others with ambitions of greatness while lacking the slightest bit of humility, Greg is certainly capable of reaching the masses. In fact, he’s probably too big for the pulpit in Costa Mesa.
Brian is very approachable but unfortunately has many enemies. If Brian doesn’t succumb to the negative press, he (is) and will be a good shepherd. I have had a few encounters with Brian and always left feeling as though he was genuine and humble. I am grateful that I am a thousand miles from that mess right now. Even more grateful to not be at all associated with that brand anymore.
Covered. Let’s hope for the best.
Too bad Brian is ecumenical
I didn’t even know that he wasn’t feeling well! š
Yeah I would caution people to stay away from CC’s: lack of open finances, recent history of abuse and cover up and the good ole One Man Pastor show and the cult of personality dynamic.
“Greg may have more charisma than Brian, but Brian will be there for his congregation. Where will Greg be?”
hmmm. Greg will be running back an forth between his churches and all his speaking engagements like that stupid elephant room. Brian appears to be a real pastor, not so sure about Laurie (but I’d still like to have lunch with him).
Brian is ecumenical? No, he isn’t. How stupid is that?
You’ve all become such horrible cynics. It’s the Lords work not some CEO job. This blog had hardened so much. If Sarah were still here we’d b praying for Brian his family and CCCM not evaluating this like they hired the next Lakers coach. Blechhhh
Both Greg and Brian are really good men. Greg was not interested in taking over CCCM because he enjoys his current ministry, and feels he is doing what God has called him to do. Brian has been pastoring CCCM for 12 years already, along with Chuck, so this isn’t really anything new. Costa Mesa didn’t get a new pastor. They simply lost one of the pastors. Chuck was obviously unique, and impossible to replace, but Brian is a godly man, with a heart of integrity, and he will do just fine.
“You’ve all become such horrible cynics”? Pretty broad brush you’re using there partner.
But Dave, isn’t he too ecumenical? LOL
Mark, would you like to lead us in prayer?
Nonnie, Flores is the male pastor/staff who statutory raped the Ayub teenager on the CCCM campus.
Mark said, “Youāve all become such horrible cynics. Itās the Lords work not some CEO job. This blog had hardened so much. If Sarah were still here weād b praying for Brian his family and CCCM not evaluating this like they hired the next Lakers coach. Blechhhh”
It’s not the Lord’s work any more than the wind is the Lord’s work…or flatulence for that matter (tribute to Luther).
CC is a Group of folks who want to be Christians* in the mold of what they believe is a more correct way than their other 9,000 to 30,000 Denominational brothers and sisters…and the CC Leaders simply desire to lead and are more talented and more driven than the others in the Group (and/or have a better pedigree etc).
…and actually, it is much more akin to “hiring the next Lakers coach” than it is the Apostles casting lots to replace Judas Iscariot as one of the Twelve.
Oh, and I’m glad Brodersen is “more ecumenical”…that’s a good thing.
Seems Jesus was ecumenical. He ate with the sinners, prostitutes and tax collectors…but not the Fundamentalist religious leaders of the day…so maybe it’s a good thing the Fundies tend to withdraw and cast everyone else into hell…at least then we don’t have to rub shoulders with them as much LOL.
“Too bad Brian is ecumenical”
Can you explain how you are using that word. I am very open that i don’t take communion with non Lutherans, but I consider myself pretty ecumenical. I go with friends to evangelical churches, to the temple with my Jewish mother, go to ballgames with some atheist friends, and I even go to RCC weddings in the family.
M75 – since I assume that you are not ecumenical, do you hang only with your own?
I agree a bit with Mark. If you don’t go to CCCM why would you care who their pastor is?
I feel like this is the end of an era for me. Pastor Chuck was my last emotional attachment to Calvary Chapel and now that he’s gone, so is any interest I have in them, other than fondness for individual people, of course.
And Levi made him a great feast in his house, and there was a large company of tax collectors and others reclining at table with them. And the Pharisees and their scribes grumbled at his disciples, saying, āWhy do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?ā (Luke 5:29-30, ESV)
Wow, Imagine that. Jesus was eating with tax collectors, sinners and even Pharisees.
Yep, the Pharisees were there and wrong, but Jesus ate with them anyways.
The nerve of that guy!
Brian is the pastor of CCCM
ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
“Brian also seems to be more in touch with the thought process of the current young generation of pastors. He is sympathetic to the fact that Calvary Chapel is not the only strong ministry influence in these guys lives and he doesnāt compete for a āCalvary Onlyā mentality. Brian strikes the balance of being a Calvary Chapel pastor and an evangelical connected to the body of Christ at large.”
http://joshturansky.com/brian-brodersen-is-the-right-guy-for-the-job/?utm_content=buffer7fd01&utm_source=buffer&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Buffer
This characteristic and Brian’s formal education at a Jesuit college prior to his becoming evangelical fuels some of the old guard’s paranoia that he is an “ecumenical”.
Thanks, Anne.
That article also links to an article Brian himself wrote which I will link to here as I think it speaks well of the man and the future.
http://calvarychapel.com/blog/changing-our-tone
Brian is ecumenical in the sense that he thinks there will be people in heaven who don’t look exactly like him.
Hey Jason,
Brian Brodersen/Jason Stellman
Jason said:
I sat down with Brian Brodersen, with whom I had developed a good friendship, and explained to him about the paradigm shift in my understanding of the Bible, and also let him know that I would submit to whatever decision about me that he thought appropriate. He told me that he had suspicions that I had become a Calvinist, and that he saw no need to ask me to step down. Instead, he suggested, we ought to keep in close communication about these things — together with the other two newly-converted Calvinist Calvary pastors — and try to coexist (a decision he later called “an experiment”).
All seemed well for the next couple of years; each time I had a question, issue, or new development in my theology I would either sit down with or email Brian and we would hash it outā¦Then in early 2000, seemingly out of nowhere, we received word from Brian that he was moving from London back to Costa Mesa and our current arrangement must come to an end: either we would have to renounce Calvinism or leave Calvary Chapel. This came as quite a shock to me, since only a few weeks earlier Brodersen had reiterated, in the strongest language possible, that we were “his guys,” and that any negative feedback about us would have to go through him before it got to Chuck.
(http://calvarychapel.pbworks.com/w/page/13146593/CC-Anti-Calvinists)
Important questions! Under the new leadership of Costa Mesaās Calvary Chapel pastor Brian Brodersen, will the New Calvinist Calvary pastors have āto renounce New Calvinismā? Will pastor Brian say to them ādo not go away mad but just go awayā as his father-in-law did? Perhaps the congregants of Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa would like to know? I hear they have a vote. Will this be an informed vote? Will New Calvinist Calvary pastors be welcome to Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa or was Brian serious when he said that Mark Driscoll is āa Calvary guyā? (See panel discussion video of CCSPC 2012). I think this is something Mark Driscoll, Michael Newnham, Brian Stupar, Daniel Fusco, Miles DeBenedictis, Ryan Couch, Ed Stetzer, the board of CCPN and other leaders of the CCA board might want to know.
For those board members on the other side of Reformed line, they might want to know where the money came from to buy and give out all of the Reformed books to CCBC students and CC pastors. Other CC pastors may also want to know why it is that they send their young people to CCBC to prepare for life and ministry and they now know more about Francis Chan, Wayne Grudem, John Piper, David Platt etc., than their pastors back home do? Will a new generation of CC pastors sound more like the Jason Stellman in his pre-Reformed day, his Reformed days or the Jason Stellman that is a little closer to Rome? CCCM may be just one of hundreds of CC churches, but will the CCBC Bible Colleges go in the new direction of Brian Brodersen, since CCCM is over CCBC and Brian is now leading CCCM?
Everything I’ve heard about what is happening in Costa Mesa is very positive.
For all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about Calvinism in Calvary Chapel, I’m still waiting after ten long years of blogging to hear from the first one waiting to come out of their Genevan closet.
Brodersen isn’t even remotely Calvinistic, he just doesn’t think we are the spawn of hell that some others do.
It’s just pure horse crap to keep insisting that the Calvinists are coming to Calvary Chapel.
#41 Exactly š
#42 Perhaps it boils down to believing Calvinists will be in heaven,(a huge leap for some) but through their own ministries, not CC. The whole “like-minded” dynamic at play in the protestant propensity for “diversity” in the body as a whole, while maintaining conformity within each of their sects š
Brian is a very good teacher of the bible. I first heard him on kwve when he pastured a church in Vista CA. Initially he was kind of boring and long winded to me. But I gave him a chance and over the years he has gotten better and better. He actually is anointed.
Chuck’s biggest faults are not Brian’s. I seriously believe you are going to see him function on a much more unique level then Chuck would have permitted. To talk about the gifts of the Spirit and to actually encourage the people to move in them are two things we will be watching for.
I believe his wife and he are an incredible team with many years ahead of them as they now officially lay hand to plow.
Would Greg Laurie have made a good choice to replace Chuck? Not! Steve W can testify to that having spent a few years under that pulpit.
Greg is best doing what he does. He is expanding his evangelism and one day just might extend to other nations.
Meanwhile CCCM will survive under the good hand of Brian. Dave R is correct.
Why would a so called Pastor praise and give honor to the Pope who is a false prophet?
Brian wants to stretch arms to the Catholic church. Blind leaders leading the blind into a ditch. I don’t care how nice and cuddly he is. The so called hippie Jesus talked about the narrow road and few find it, he wasn’t as Inclusive as many would lead you to believe. I think Jude applies to Brian
“For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
AnapolĆ³ @ 42. You have some good insights. Is Jason Stellman still a PCA guy?
AnapolĆ³ (George Bryson?), my name is spelled “Bryan” w/ a “y”.
Also if it’s true as you stated about CCBC, “they now know more about Francis Chan, Wayne Grudem, John Piper, David Platt etc…” then I’m really excited about my daughter going there next year. These men love Jesus, live Jesus, and preach Jesus…that’s EXACTLY what I desire too. Thanks for encouraging me w/ this report!
Solomon Rodriguez,
#46 Do you have proof that BB “wants to stretch arms to the Catholic church”, or is your “proof” merely anecdotal? Are you suggesting that BB is, “marked out for this condemnation” (which is a VERY weighty accusation)?
If so, (based upon the verse you selected)
How is BB “ungodly”?
How has BB “turned the grace of our God into Lewdness” (Preoccupied with sex and sexual desire; lustful)?
How has BB “denied the only Lord God & our Lord Jesus Christ”?
These are legitimate questions given your accusations. If there is no legitimate proof then your claims amount to gossip, which only serves to tear apart what God in Christ is attempting to bring together.
Bryan,
Your #48, I stand and applaud!!!!
According to my quick Google search, the closest RC church to CCCM is 0.7 miles. While that is not a very far distance, it still is quite a way to stretch one’s arms. I imagine that would really hurt. I think we’re safe from Brodersen attempting such self-inflicted pain. š
AnapolĆ³ (George Bryson?)
“Will a new generation of CC pastors sound more like the Jason Stellman…?”
“…will the CCBC Bible Colleges go in the new direction of Brian Brodersen…?”
Hopefully if lead faithfully, according to God’s Spirit…the “new generation of CC pastors” and the “CCBC Bible Colleges” will “sound more like” and “go in the…direction of”, JESUS.
IF however, they’re led according to the fleshly desires of men who idolize a tribe, then not so much. We’re shaped most by what we most value (love). This is precisely why we desperately need renewed hearts…which is conveniently what God’s freely gives!
Spell check, “what God freely gives!” (not, “what Godās freely gives!”)
Bryan Stupar, I’m surprised that you haven’t learned by now that SolRod only spews what he learns on the other blog. He takes what he hears over there as being the truth and then brings it over here with sort of a, “thuse saith” attitude. It’s actually a bit entertaining but his comments need to be taken with a grain of salt. He hates all things Calvary and Steve W but he isn’t sure why other than he knows many others have suffered because of CC and Steve.
Covered, I’m a SLO learner. (pun intended) š
The Calvary Nicolations Continue, as BB is now Heir to the Throne- Chuck Smith NEVER called him this, only the intoxicated board. This BLOG is Brodersens personal BLOG, as he and his minions give you the inside lies…….The ROAD to ROME will be in FULL SWING now that Greg Laurie has another Nicolation in place…..They fired Roger Oakland, then Paul Smith…the Holy Spirit is departed… Have fun DRVING your PURPOSE…..
“Nicolations is a Christian heresy whose adherents are called nicolaitans, nicolaitanes, or nicolaites. “Nico” means “CONQUER” in Greek, and “Laitan” refers to lay people, or laity; hence, the word may be taken to mean “Lay CONQUERORS” or Conquerors of the Lay People. However, “Nicolaitan” is simply the name given to followers of the heretic Nicolas (Greek: Nikolaos-the name itself meaning ‘victorious over people’or ‘victory of the people’ which he would have been given at birth).[citation needed] They are first mentioned (twice) in the Book of Revelation in the New Testament. According to Revelation 2, vv. 6 and 15, they were known in the cities of Ephesus and Pergamos (around AD 99). In this chapter, the church at Ephesus is commended for “hating the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate” and the church in Pergamos is blamed for “having them who hold their [the Nicolaitans’] doctrines”. There is no other first-hand evidence to give us certainty about the nature of this sect and no evidence supporting the claim that Nicholas was in fact a Heretic. Some Protestants see this as a forewarning from John of growing power in the church which would lead to corruption, forming what would become the Roman Catholic Church”
You can’t fellowship with me, or go to my heaven, unless you hate the same people I hate, and fear the same people I fear.
Dave Rolph, another WEALTHY NICOLATION….I now where you live
Number 56…..oh please! Seriously?
The Beloved, thanks for the Wikipedia cut and paste of “Nicolations”.
Do you have any proof of your accusations, or just platitudes?
“The ROAD to ROME will be in FULL SWING now that Greg Laurie has another Nicolation in place”…What does that even mean?
Are you sure the “board” isn’t the only one “intoxicated”?
Me thinks Beloved has been sniffing too many fumes from “the Lighthouse.”
The Beloved, your post was a joke right? Today so far we had a drive by from Bryson and now this from The Beloved, what’s next? I’m pretty sure that Dave isn’t concerned that you “now” where he lives it’s not like you know where he lives š
#61,
Nonnie, or something else that leads to total incoherence.
Dear “The Beloved.” I’m glad you see yourself as the exclusive beloved one. That must be nice. Everyone knows where I live. I invite people over to my house all the time, and give my address to anyone at my church. So you don’t have any secret knowledge of me. I have nothing to hide, which is why I use my real name. And unless you spoke with Chuck after I did, which was three days before he died, you are wrong in thinking that he didn’t designate Brian as his successor. And not only can you not spell “Nicolaitan”, you are clueless as to its meaning.
I think I smell a joint! šÆ
Dave,
I don’t know where you live. š
I thought Dave’s avatar was a pic of where he lived.
Now that I think about it, there may be something to the theory that this has been Brian’s blog all along. He has been working all these years, through his minion Michael, to bring down Chuck, so his “Phoenix” can rise as he ascends to the throne. Alex obviously works for Brian too. And Jason Stellman was actually converted to Catholicism by Brodersen, using Calvinism as a gateway drug. This is freaky!
jamesk, My avatar is where I used to live, in Huntington Beach, before I moved into my current palatial estate. Just don’t know how to change my avatar.
Dave, your “current palatial estate” only accessible by helicopter…I would add. š
The Beloved,
You are so wrong.
I’m actually a Jesuit and all these people work for me.
The entire history of our takeover of Calvary Chapel can be found in the Friday articles, but only the ones about cats.
If you crack the code and understand the true identity of “Miss Kitty” it all unfolds before you.
It’s too late for you now, but I wanted to show you my genius.
Police helicopter.
So, is “Miss Kitty” your illuminati code name? If a cat has nine lives, the universe will end when you shut the blog down for the ninth time.
“Bryan Stupar, Iām surprised that you havenāt learned by now that SolRod only spews what he learns on the other blog. He takes what he hears over there as being the truth and then brings it over here with sort of a, āthuse saithā attitude. Itās actually a bit entertaining but his comments need to be taken with a grain of salt. He hates all things Calvary and Steve W but he isnāt sure why other than he knows many others have suffered because of CC and Steve.”
Covered,
I actually don’t spend too much time on the “other blog” I actually research for myself unlike a lot of Kool Aid drinking Christians. Brian has twweted praise for the False Prophet known as Pope Francis, hmm!! Makes you think and wonder, look where his roots come from. People don’t just deny Christ with words but actions
Dave,
The wise will begin counting….
The other key is to find how many times I have misspelled “Brodersen”.
I can speak no more.
Calvinism is a gateway drug…That’s funny!
The whole Calvary –> Geneva –> Rome thing is still in process. My eventual aim is to land at Stonehenge and become a Druid. Those hooded cloaks are bitchin.
Covered,
Please don’t assume I hate anyone. How can I hate Steve, never met the guy. I just get annoyed with his constant excuses for Calvary that’s all.
The word bitchin is bitchin.
#ILoveThe80’s
#RememberYouLovedKennyG
#YouSoHaole
Kool Aid is tasty, refreshing and inexpensive. I never understood the bad wrap.
I love humor, sarcasm, and parody (when I get it) and I’m glad there are CCers here to help straighten out any controversies. I appreciate first hand information. So I have some questions before I have to go to work.
1, What is Broderson’s history with the RCC if any?
2, What is his current relationship with any RCCers? (Public, not private.)
3, Did Abraham make any mistakes?
Thanks. bbl
Josh
Wild Cherry is the bomb!
Can’t imagine a Baptist potluck without Kool Aid.
What is Brodersonās history with the RCC if any? – Never attended Reading Calvary Chapel
What is his current relationship with any RCCers? – Not sure he knows anyone who does attend.
Did Abraham make any mistakes? – Yes, going to the Ford Theater to see that play.
I’m asking serious questions. I have a reason for asking the question about Abraham which I’ll discuss later.
Gary,
1. Brian was raised in the RCC.
2. Like most ex-Catholics, he has maintained a fairly negative stance against the RCC. But he might not be as hostile as some would prefer.
3. He said Sarah was his sister, for one. Hagar was a bad idea too.
“Kool Aid drinking…”
Just for the record, it was FlavorAid
“The true brand name used has been disputed and named as being Flavor-Aid.”
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid
You can now shop & drink freely š
You know what they say about Baptists, whenever there’s 4 you will always find a 5th š
Ha! But we never admit to it. How can you tell a Methodist from a Baptist? You can talk to the Methodist when you see him in the liquor store.
Even Flavor Aid though…pretty sure it wasn’t the Flavor Aid that caused the problems, ya know?
I just have to thank Dave & Michael for my laugh for the day! š I always suspected there was some secret plot going on – now, don’t mind me, I’m counting all the “Broderson’s” to figure it all out. I assume that once I get this number and multiply it by the number of times the blog has been shut down, that all will become clear.
On a serious note, Dave, I just want to thank you for the grace and love that I’ve always seen come through you in your posts over the years. I know you don’t know me, but I’ve listened to you (on radio) and seen you over the years and it’s always nice when you run across someone in ministry that seems to be the genuine deal across-the-board. Plus the fact that you even read & consider stuff at a site like this says volumes about you & your desire for both yourself and CC to be the most God-honoring that can be (even at the risk of taking flak from others both within CC and here at this site – the CC pastors like you can’t win and get hit from both sides). I DON’T know where you live, but if I did, I’d probably show up with a pie and give you a giant hug! š š Love you brother! Okay, gooey lovefest over. š
I can’t prove it yet but I think I figured out what’s really going on before our eyes . Again it’s still just a theory but I think that Dave and Michael are planning on wearing Hawaiian shirts and hosting a Prophecy Conference at a Catholic Church with Brian Broderson!
fun fact… the first time I ever heard George Bryson was at CCBC at Vista, Pastor Brian was teaching a ‘Preparing for the Pastorate’ class and George came and shared a pre publish copy of his book ‘Calvinism: Weighed and Found Wanting”
Ancient history and all, but I think it’s interesting, cause like, Dude, I was there. I’m guessing the year was 94-95?
I’ve been hitting the Kool Aid all day, everything’s a little blurry.
Thanks Dave. I was also razed in the RCC and I’m probably more anti Catholic than most. I’m not against any Catholics, but the RCC.
I hear a lot of stuff and I suspect most of it is bogus but it would scare me a bit if I thought CC was heading toward Rome. You sometimes hit what you’re aiming at.
My first brush with Chuck was in ’70 when I stood up and said the prayer which I didn’t mean. I didn’t know at the time that I didn’t mean it. I liked the clean friendly hippies so I suppose I stood up for that. 6 months later I came to the end of myself and asked God to forgive me for totally messing up my life. I went to CCCM in ’71, ’72, and ’73 until I was wonderfully expelled from a dubious commune. We were building the church when I left and hitchhiked across the US.
The first time I ever heard anything negative about CC I dismissed it out of hand. The first time I heard of Brian Brodersen was about 3 years ago when my brother, who is getting to be a big-wig at CCCM, referred me to a bible study in which a pastor said that Abraham never did anything wrong. I questioned that so he e mailed me the link. I listened to Brian say that. I wanted to make sure I was hearing correctly so I e mailed Brian asking about it. he said that yes, he believed that.
What makes it relevant is that my brother believes he’s like Abraham and I’m like Lot. Sounds like Nicolaitianism to me. Got any thoughts on the matter?
Dave @ 41 “Brian is ecumenical in the sense that he thinks there will be people in heaven who donāt look exactly like him.”
I would argue those in the next life will all look identical (covered in the blood…or not).
Gary, can you provide a link or text in context where Brian said he doesn’t believe that Abe never did anything wrong?
Scott,
I’ll look in my e mail folder. It may take a while as I’m a mechanical dolt; as smart as a bolt.
Scott,
I couldn’t find a link but the date of Brian’s study was 1/14/09. I’ll keep looking cuz I want to quote Brian’s words to me so it’s not heresay.
“Scott,
I couldnāt find a link but the date of Brianās study was 1/14/09. Iāll keep looking cuz I want to quote Brianās words to me so itās not heresay.”
Thanks.
Hi Gary,
I was looking back over #94. I don’t claim to speak for BB but my initial thoughts are, there must be more to the context of your question.
If the question was:
E.g.: Generalized- “Did Abraham make ANY mistakes…EVER?”
If BB answered, “NO NEVER”, then not only would that be unsupported biblically it’s just strange & unorthodox, as I’ve NEVER heard of any such teaching. I’d join you in your disappointment & disapproval.
E.g.: Specific- “Did Abraham make any mistakes BY PARTING FROM LOT?”
The strength of the question (“ANY mistakes”) would lead *ME* to answer perhaps he DID…but than again maybe not…the scripture isn’t clear.
I’m sorry to hear that your brother has used (perhaps abused) the scripture to identify you as Lot and himself as Abraham (though it’s always important to know the other side of the story/explanation)…Nonetheless, I’m sure that felt hurtful & alienating. Please know that “in Christ” you are valuable. “In Him” you have dignity & worth. God is not a respecter of persons…though human beings often are…unfortunately, even “saved” ones.
Peace
Gary,
Also, according to this definition by āIrenaeus (circa 130AD)
The Nicolaitanes are the followers of that Nicolas who was one of the seven first ordained to the diaconate by the apostles. They lead lives of unrestrained indulgence. The character of these men is very plainly pointed out in the Apocalypse of John, as teaching that it is a matter of indifference to practice adultery, and to eat things sacrificed to idols.
Based on this definition it’s SAFE to assume that the confusion surrounding BB interpretation of “Abrahams mistake” is almost certainly NOT Nicolaism,
I thought the doctrine of the Nicolaitans was that there are 2 classes of Christians; the clergy and the laity.
Bryan,
If I remember correctly (and I do that occasionally) it was a general statement. My brother has also said this to (and about) my sister when she asked about our relationship which then ended their relationship. I think they consider any deviation from complete acceptance to fall under the “touch not God’s anointed” idea.
Gary,
I think I’m understanding your angle…still not sure if it’d be classified as, “Nicolaitans” though.
At the end of the day, what Jesus accomplished was described well by Paul in Col. 3:14
“And above all these put on love, which BINDS everything together in perfect harmony. And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in ONE body.”
Any time one seeks to divided by superficial means and break the unity of what Jesus did they are walking out of step with the Gospel. (Gal. 2:14)
It’d be helpful to hear BB’s message which caused your confusion.
BB didn’t cause my confusion. That happened years ago. š Like I said, I’m not too smart about navigating on the computer but it was a Wednesday night study on 1/14/2009. I’m off to work. bbl
I found the link to the Wednesday Night Study at CCCM on 1/14/2009.
http://cts.cdn.scaleengine.net/sestore1/vodstore/cts/b2b/Genesis/B0026.m4a
It was linked on the Back to Basics Radio Website.
Derek, would mind listening to it and letting us know if what Gary reported is actually what Brian said? I have some football to watch today š
Listening…’bout halfway through right now.
Not really seeing it in this podcast myself.
Maybe Gary needs to listen and give his take.
Wiling to give the benefit of the doubt to Gary though. He may have gotten the date wrong.
Alternatively, to expect a pastor to always say everything in the correct way we expect, is to put them in a place of perfection that we cannot attain ourselves.
I myself don’t really expect a pastor to always be right, just like I don’t expect myself to be right all the time.
Here is a link to BB’s Genesis Studies.
http://backtobasicsradio.com/resources/audio/genesis/?start=0
Don’t have the time to go through it and find it though.
The Beloved says:
October 11, 2013 at 9:21 am
The Calvary Nicolations Continue, as BB is now Heir to the Throne- Chuck Smith NEVER called him this, only the intoxicated board. This BLOG is Brodersens personal BLOG, as he and his minions give you the inside liesā¦ā¦.The ROAD to ROME will be in FULL SWING now that Greg Laurie has another Nicolation in placeā¦..They fired Roger Oakland, then Paul Smithā¦the Holy Spirit is departedā¦ Have fun DRVING your PURPOSEā¦..
āNicolations is a Christian heresy whose adherents are called nicolaitans, nicolaitanes, or nicolaites. āNicoā means āCONQUERā in Greek, and āLaitanā refers to lay people, or laity; hence, the word may be taken to mean āLay CONQUERORSā or Conquerors of the Lay People. However, āNicolaitanā is simply the name given to followers of the heretic Nicolas (Greek: Nikolaos-the name itself meaning āvictorious over peopleāor āvictory of the peopleā which he would have been given at birth).[citation needed] They are first mentioned (twice) in the Book of Revelation in the New Testament. According to Revelation 2, vv. 6 and 15, they were known in the cities of Ephesus and Pergamos (around AD 99). In this chapter, the church at Ephesus is commended for āhating the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hateā and the church in Pergamos is blamed for āhaving them who hold their [the Nicolaitans’] doctrinesā. There is no other first-hand evidence to give us certainty about the nature of this sect and no evidence supporting the claim that Nicholas was in fact a Heretic. Some Protestants see this as a forewarning from John of growing power in the church which would lead to corruption, forming what would become the Roman Catholic Churchā
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I don’t like Calvary Chapel. I don’t think anyone would dispute that.
I have no beef with Roger Oakland or Paul Smith or Jackie Alnor. I think they are well meaning and sincere, just wrong.
Having said that, I have looked into the Jesuit stuff and the “Road to Rome” stuff etc…and other than their valid critiques of abuse and corruption in the RCC…issues the RCC is now having to take responsibility for and make changes…the issues they raise just aren’t compelling.
Calvary Chapel seems no closer to Rome than the Southern Baptists or Acts 29 or any other of the 9,000 to 30,000 denominations and non-denominations under the Christian* umbrella. There will never be a “one-world” religion. Won’t happen. Church folks can’t even agree on the “correct” bible translation, let alone the correct canon, correct set of Doctrines, etc etc.
The only “one world” thing that will ever happen…is Global Trade and a new Global Currency Regime in the form of a World Central Bank or similar and a new Supra-national currency as the new World Reserve Currency to replace the US petro Dollar.
The IMF laid out the ground work and ideas here in 2010:
http://www.imf.org/external/np/pp/eng/2010/041310.pdf
Other than that, there will never be a “one world” anything. No one world Govt. no one world “religion” or church. People are way too fragmented, way too opinionated, way too many disagreements on all sorts of things down to minutia.
Money and a Monetary System is the only thing throughout man’s history that has united folks across the globe in any manner. That’s all that you’ll see in the future, otherwise there will be huge disagreements on govt, politics, religion, sub-religion, philosophy, morality, etc.
I found the e mail I was looking for. Here’s my question to Brian:
Hi Brian,
I was able to hear your study on Genesis 13 and I have some questions. I need your help. Sometimes I feel more like Abram but mostly I feel more like Lot. Was Abram always right and was Lot always wrong? Gary
Here is his answer:
Hi Gary,
If you want to send me the questions I can try to answer them for you. Yes, Abram was right and Lot was wrong. We see lot making a series a bad choices causing him to lose everything in the end. He was a believer but one who failed to really glorify God in his life.
Gary, thanks. I think the way you presented the matter in your #94 wasn’t quite how it really played out it seems. I’m glad you glad you were able to share in context the actual exchange.
Gary,
I wouldn’t listen to what your brother has to say on this.
Abraham screwed up quite a bit. Lot screwed up quite bit.
I have screwed up a lot. I am sure your brother has screwed up a lot.
Some people just don’t want to let others know that they have screwed up a lot.
There is only one human that never screwed up and he was the Son of God.
We don’t define ourselves by the bad choices we made in life anymore.
We define ourselves by Jesus Christ.
I will continue to screw up in this lifetime. But Jesus took care of that.
None of us could stand on our own merit.
Your brother is missing the point of the bigger picture.
The bible shows us all these messed up humans, doing messed up things, so that we can see Jesus and how perfect he was and come to realize that we can only depend on His mercy and sacrifice.
Gary,
I had the chance to listen to the message…(Thanks Derek for linking to it)
From the email you posted it seems more like a specific situation of obedience regarding following God in a specific instance (separation from Lot). Yes Abraham did obey and acted faithfully here and God blessed it. Lot choses the plains of Sodom (not a good choice).
My take away from the message was that God blesses obedience. (A true reality)
Though the emphasis rested a bit heavily upon Abraham’s obedience AND by way of application, “my” obedience. I personally would have taken it up stream a bit further to point out the “perfect obedience” of Jesus in my place…as being the heart melting motivation for my obedience…but, i digress.
Nonetheless, I feel God wanted me to hear that message…there were points BB made that God spoke directly to my heart…In other words, I needed to hear this. I would have never listened to that message had you not brought it up here…thank you!
Bryan, is that soul patch real, or a clip-on?
Josh, it’s the real thing…not some cheap clip-on! š
Bryan, Scott, Derek, and Dave- Are any of you guys involved at CCCM? If you are can I talk to you?
Gary, I’m not involved with CC at all, let alone CCCM. Although, one time I was referred to as assistant pastor at a CC church. That was pretty funny š
What I meant is I was referred to as an assistant pastor of a CC on this blog.
No, I am a Baptist in Mississippi. Not even close to California.
Should I include Jason in my query? Anybody else go to CCCM?
I need to get some perspective from those in ‘the know’ but I don’t want to gossip. Is there such a thing as an online conference call like a group e mail where we could discuss this? I want to respond to some of the posts above and address my sitch. It’s not about Brian Brodersen but I’m glad we swerved into this. I don’t have any interest in dissing CC’s new senior pastor. Thanks in advance.
Gary, what type of topics would you like to discuss about CCCM?
Not about CC or CCCM but about a personal issue that’s directly related. I feel like I’ve discussed it I enough here and the other blog. I need some perspective from someone at CCCM.
ok, how’d you like to communicate on this? If I can be helpful with a personal issue I’ll do my best to give it a shot. bosscalvary+jesus@gmail
Just remember Gary, anyone can set up an email address purporting to be anyone.
Derek,
Are you near the Gulf Coast?
Scott,
Do you mean that I should know who I’m corresponding with before I start?
How can I know for sure? Maybe Michael can verify the e mail addy.
No, close to Memphis.
Gary, that’s is exactly what I mean.
Hi Gary,
my email is jbstupar@gmail.com
I’d be happy to help you out in any way I can.
witness,
Are you a leader at CCCM? You didn’t give a full e mail addy.
Thanks Bryan. If you’re a leader at CCCM you can help.
Gary, I’m NOT on staff at CCCM.
I am a pastor though, and am connected to CCCM.
I’d be happy to help where I can.
I got saved at CCCM, worked at CCCM, & know many folks at CCCM, was sent out from CCCM to plant the church I’m now at http://www.calvaryslo.com.
As I said, Iād be happy to help where I can. š
peace
no worries Gary, yes I am, but just let Scott or Bryan help out with your concerns.
witness,
I’m not worried. I tried e mailing you. Did you get it?
no, try again, leave off the +jesus (only on the email lol)
.com .net or .org?
.com
witness,
Your e mail is bosscalvary@gmail.com? Why did you give me a bogus e mail?
Gary,
He did it that way, because when you put an email up in the clear, so that it shows like a link like in your #143, bots trolling the site can grab that email and spam senders can use it to have a new email to spam.
That is why you will see a lot of people put up nobody_special at nowhere.com. Or some other way.
It’s all about not wanting your email to get spammed by the spam bots.
Oops. Sorry. Can it be removed?
I guess not. I hope you didn’t get spammed. Sorry.
Looks like I may have poured cold water on this thread. Bummer. Do any of you CC pastors/leaders know what happened to Chuck’s sentiment page? I was really enjoying that.
This thread is dead. Long live Brian Brodersen.