I didn’t realize that comments were closed,my apologies.
It’s not good to speak ill of the dead and Missler has little lasting influence, so I will just note his death in passing…
I am sure the Missler was a fine person and may he RIP. I disagreed with his theology when it came to the end times stuff. I don’t consider him a dispensationalist as I doubt he was trained that way, but he was the typical rapture theology type and I will give him his due, he represented the position well.
If you ever want to know what rapture theology teaches about end times – the future of Israel, the temple and sacrificial system and end times timing you can do no better than to plug in a Missler tape.
Some of Missler’s physics lectures were quite captivating but I agree some of his conjectures especially in theology were quite bizarre. I still have his book “Learn the Bible in 24 hours” which I found somewhat useful. RIP Chuck.
Well, he missed his two big predictions: Y2K and the Rapture.
Why did he move to New Zealand 8 years ago? Family? Fleeing the awful stuff he predicted? Slightly curious.
In 1992 Chuck came and spoke at a church I was attending while going to college in Seattle. His talks on the integrated nature of the Bible, how things interconnect in the Old and New Testaments, patterns in scripture, these are the things that inspired me to want to be a Bible teacher. I found them so exciting. They got me into the Bible like never before and it was evidently apparent to my friends because I was living out scripture like I never had before. The Spirit brought God’s word to life in me, and say what you will, it was because of Chuck Missler.
If nothing else, Chuck wasn’t afraid to explore any idea and he encouraged that fearless exploration in others, even if you came to different conclusions. It was his personal challenge to everyone to chase things down for yourself and not believe anything from anyone out of hand that I think should be one of his lasting legacies. I know it is in my life.
I remember reading or hearing some years back that Missler had some changes in his beliefs about the Rapture. He was still pre-trib/pre-mill and held to the Rapture, but some specifics changed such as I think he believed that only seriously spiritual Christians would be raptured and the “less spiritual” ones would get left behind with the unbelievers. These changes apparently caused him to lose favor with some in Calvary Chapel, as of course you know, messing with the Rapture is almost akin to heresy to some in CC. I don’t know if these changes in circumstance have anything to do with him moving to New Zealand, but it does make me wonder if it played a role being that a large base of his platform and popularity was through CC that he may have then lost to some degree.
Besides that, I don’t know much of the man. I heard him speak a couple times and found him to be both interesting and strange. The topics he spoke on struck me more as distractions, more than anything else.
I imagine the man loved the Lord and his ministry had some positive impacts as Corby personally attests to. May he now be enjoying the presence of his Savior.
My wife read Nancy Misslers book ‘Way of Agape’ 20 years ago and she would say it was instrumental in saving our marriage.
Resources we draw from these days have changed a bit.
Chuck used to be pretty big up here in the Coeur d’Alene (where Koinonia House is located), but after he moved to NZ, he pretty much fell off the radar. Because of his CDA roots, I understand there will be a memorial service here in North Idaho, I only bumped into his work in a fringe sort of way, never really grabbed me. His penchant toward plagiarism wasn’t helpful.
FWIW….
Someone mentioned Y2K? In olden times programming required saving as much memory as was possible… instead of saving 1988, the date inputed was allowed just 2 characters: 88. Business being bottom line oriented (and then very computer ignorant) wasn’t about to update their perfectly good systems with expensive new ones. It is obvious that there was a problem with old software still in use at the turn of the century – if your birth date had been recorded as 57, now you’d be spit out of the system as not yet born… not to mention financial record problems… We didn’t have a disaster thanks to some very dedicated hard working folk in the 1990s.
RIP indeed, Mr. Missler. Precious few wise, mighty or noble men are called out of their carnal lives to love and serve God. A place where human intelligence is almost a handicap…
My understanding (could be wrong) was that when the Missler’s material success went south the Christian community that they’d been associated with (CC? I dont know) abandoned him… God didn’t.
I didn’t follow his teaching career as i didnt find him gifted to teach … dunno But the man loved God and the Faith, of that i have no doubt…
I know quite a few people, mostly cerebral tyoes, from the 1960s on, who’d have moved to New Zealand in a heartbeat, if they could, including my late husband and my youngest daughter
#15 – think “military industrial complex” … Back then the industrial end of things were run by men like Missler and an uncle of mine, a little higher up the food chain than Missler, who,sworn to secrecy, take to their graves knowledge of behind the scenes machinations – even outdated facts. “My lips are sealed” meant just that. Their view of integrity, i guess… Or maybe they’d be shot LOL dunno. ?
I benefited from attending Chucks Monday night studies in the Fellowship Hall at CCCM before Greg Laurie started doing his Harvest gatherings in the Main Sanctuary. That was 1987 or so?
It was from him that I learned how the whole Bible fits together and is one story.
Chuck missler sparked a lot of interest in the Bible by those who normally would not be interested.
His stuff on the nephilim is interesting and aliens is relevant to this generation of young people who grew constantly being told that aliens are coming.
I think even Robert Downey Jr (Iron Man) said he was fond of his work. I think he was a bit more influential than you give him credit for.
He might have been off on a few areas but he was a great teacher who made the Bible relatable to people.
I see a dynamic at work that i don’t know that we can blame the late Missler for creating… CEOs in general are considered more insightful than the rest of us and, in general, i think they believe it themselves – over half the time it is the troops under them, competent people, busting their butts to make things work… fulfilling the vision of the boss
Could it be that Missler brought his CEO mindset to the Faith, threw out insights that he thought were valid with the subconscious CEO attitude: “seems right to me; lets see if it works?”
Both contemporary Christianity and science have really been operating on the denial of the supernatural. Things seem to be changing in the God denying scientific world as they explore the ideas of life on other planets and multiple dimensions beyond the traditional – i see that as dangerous, opening the unbeliever to validating the demonic…
On the other hand, the Believer who is blind to supernatural, to other dimensions is also taking a dangerous stand…. So?
So, right or wrong in his conjectures, wasn’t Missler right in making us question and search?…. IMV the Bible is a supernatural book able to reveal what our natural eyes can’t see … perhaps, we should question all our teachers, but prayerfully as we do?
My father and I religiously listened to him on the radio until y2k…. we had stuff packed up and ready to go. When it was all said and done that was the first time I realized that not everything on kwve was true, and my dad dialed back the end times fiction books that were common at the time. Either way RIP, nobody gets it right 100% of the time.
@ Michael. I could almost be forgiven for thinking you are not a Missler follower.
Speaking ill of the dead, was not actually on the two tablets of stone, as is widely believed.
Why don’t you go ahead and list Missler’s ideas you disapprove of. It could even be a fresh post, so the comment thread is fresh as well.
If biblical illiteracy has reached the point where Missler’s bizarre teachings about aliens and the Bible and his horrific splitting of Christians into classes doesn’t immediately cause people concern,then I’m not wasting my time.
Missler and his fake doctorate only gained prominence because Chuck Smith gave him a platform.
I had the privilege of leading worship for his studies at CCCM.
Chuck allowed me complete freedom, sometimes sat quietly & prayerfully, and would joke about my name about 1x/month just to be a kidder.
It was back in the early days of emails and laptops that I sent him questions about his teaching that the names of the patriarchs, when read in order of appearance in the Torah, translated from the Hebrew to English actually created a Gospel narrative. Wow, what an amazing proof of the intricate design of God engineering the very truth of Jesus into the word of God!
When my wife and I tried to use our Strong’s concordance to research the teaching it was not as he taught, not even close, so I emailed him…
…never a response.
I decided that if a response was not warranted he and I needed to gently & quietly part ways, I mean, who am I to question and I probably got it wrong!?
@36 – They are still unaccredited. I didn’t know there reputation. They have a long list of famous people who got degrees from there, so that does seem fishy.
Your story points out one of my big problems with these sorts of “teachers”.
They don’t get people interested in a real study of scripture, but in some hackneyed twist that makes them feel as if they are now in possession of gnosis…
You already got a trophy a couple years back for making it to the Phoenix Preacher Hall of Fame. Now you want a doctorate, too? The greed of some knows no end. 🙂
Besides, I think Michael owes me a doctorate first. 🙂
Gman’s experience with Missler’s teaching is sad…. Sends my thoughts into what if conjectures… What if someone in the organization culled those emails? What if somehow Gman had been able to persist, to get a face to face and resolve the contradictions being taught… There is danger in being so “important” that you are above question…. RIP lover of the things of God – a merciful God, who has had to clean up messes greater than Missler may have created… IMHO ?
Michael,
It’s a case of Missler it backfired because he always encouraged us to do our own homework and be “good Bereans” who checked the scriptures for themselves.
When we did and the teaching was questioned and stonewalled we decided to find another community of believers led by leadership who welcomed questions and gave timely responses.
In our case we still fellowship with and serve a community of believers who are willing to admit we question and often cannot find answers for the solid teachings, and we just smile and roll our eyes when anyone brings up the fringe stuff.
Em,
Back in those days I had an ethic of daring NOT to question, and it was part of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa ethos during the times of Romaine when he was assistant pastor.
Over the years I’ve become far more winsome and learned to be a co-participant, and ask in a way that is far more disarming. I’ve learned this from my friends who are Rabbis and working with visiting scholars. Judaism encourages questions and struggling with one’s faith, fundamentalism & evangelicalism not so much.
Clean up messes? I think if we stopped putting people on high and lofty places in our minds and adopted the idea that we’re all just fellow travelers who discover a well of drinkable water from time to time we’d have less celebrity clergy and more side by side servant role models.
#56 – Judaism does indeed encourage questioning. – what better way to learn than ask questions
We should be ashamed of elevating our teachers and Christian personalities to “lofty places.” On the other hand, we should aim to grow in knowledge to a level that allows us to give respect to our true scholars. Our Faith does have them. ..
I’m pretty sure there was a reason that my husband and i never got involved with Calvary Chapel…. Even though i am indebted to Chuck Smith for guiding some dear family members to their redemption, i am pretty sure that we would have been shown the exit door much quicker than some here were. Probably the fire exit! LOL
Personally, I found Missler to be far more to my liking, then a Skip Heizig personality. And I did take his advice to be good Bereans.
One thing that intrigued me was he seemed to become fearful, at the end. I’m speaking here of the NZ move, and the political tone. This tone sounded identical to most other Conservative leaders. Given his doctrine, I would have expected a more robust eschatology.
FWIW… For some reason years ago we received a koinonia house news letter,, hard copy or electronic i don’t recall, nor how we got on the mailing list… that said, i seem to recall that Nancy M. fell in love with N.Z. and the people involved in their work there and wanted to settle there…. dunno if that was why they immigrated …?….
A NZ retirement could definitely be the logical explanation. The continued ministry activities could be easily explained as a reluctance to be idle in old age.
As has been noted above, he had non-Orthodox ideas. But his radio comments often seemed Orthodox Evangelicalism regarding perceived American morality, and public policy.
It confuses me how one could believe in a multiverse, and multi dimensions of time, while considering Conservatism to be relevant. It feels like you should have broader horizons the public policy.
FWIW I did my own research into the gospel in genealogy thing some years ago (specifically Genesis 5). It doesn’t work in Strong’s because Strong’s is relatively light-weight linguistically. The names are words and compound words, like the word “photograph.” When you look up the words as words, not just as transliterated names, and look at the roots in better language tools, it does work out.
I’m not trying to defend Missler, that’s just my own research. After doing it I felt confident/comfortable enough to teach it from the pulpit, not just parrot it.
Michael, and the others commenting on the Gospel genealogy message, I remember Chuck saying, “We owe the Hebrew scholars a huge debt” for actually discovering these Bible codes. He did not take credit for discovering them, disclosing them, or decoding them.
The words I remember Chuck saying, perhaps more than any other, were, “It’s something to think about “. As far as aliens are concerned, he firmly believed the so-called “aliens” are actually demonic beings that come from inner space, not outer space. Interestingly enough, many believers of the “Visitors from Beyond ” are now joining in that theory.
I must say I am very disappointed at the attitudes I have seen in some of these posts. I would expect that sort of response from the unbeleiving Facebook crowd. But when Christians decide to criticize a dead man, whose love of God is NOT in question, because you don’t agree with his theology, on a page meant to memorialize him, it’s rather disrespectful. And, I’m sorry, it’s not what ANYONE expects from Christian’s.
Yep, I said it. Don’t accuse a dead man of plagiarism when he can’t defend himself. I only know he cited dozens of sources when I heard him speak, never taking credit for other people’s work. He had a brilliant mind, and many people can’t follow his ideas. He had many ideas, and they didn’t always go the same direction. He acknowledged that. That’s the way smart people think, and people who can’t follow those thought patterns often get flustered, then angry, and sometimes they react the way I see here.
It’s ok to disagree with someone. You can disagree with someone and still love them as a brother or sister in Christ. That’s what we’re called to do. How can we love God, who we have never seen, if we can’t love one another, when we can see and hear and touch each other here?
Strange about the comment that Brother Chuck missed on the date of the Rapture. I’ve never heard him set a day, and he was dead set against anyone attempting to do so.
Also, the accusation that he plagiarized material is just hands-on wrong. He was a careful and gifted scholar who attempted to present complex ideas so that ordinary people could understand them. I would challenge the idea that he presented others’ ideas without giving the originator credit, except by unintentional, human errors. Everyone makes mistakes, as these two accusations demonstrations.
Jim Porter, those were my thoughts exactly. In fact, I remember Chuck saying, loosely quoted, “If someone sets a date for the Rapture, you can rest assured the Rature will NOT happen that day!”
I also remember him being very careful about giving credit where it belongs, especially to the Jewish scholars who actually uncovered the so-called Bible codes. He NEVER took credit for finding those.
Candance,
Chuck M was an entertaining guy, full of “thought provoking” ideas, but as one who served him, and engaged him and came away damaged, I’m definitly not going to silently sit by just because he died, a shared destiny each of us will have. Knowing our lives are finite, we should live in such a way that when when questioned we should respond, when something we create or teach is called to question, we should do our best to make it right, and even retract our mistakes.
I wish Chuck M had done so, but moreover I wish that the idea that a person with a following is somehow above questioning during life or when they pass on is why we continue to have oddball teachings repeated, which lead people away from sound teaching and sound thinking and ultimately distract people from Jesus.
I find your response a bit confusing. I agree Chuck was an interesting guy, and he had a lot of different ideas about things that were at odds with some other teachers. But I never found anything he did or said distracting from the main thing: Jesus and the Gospel. In fact, he stressed that often, how the Bible was 66 books written by over 50 different authors over a period of over two thousand years yet it told a consistent story of Jesus Christ being our Lord and Saviour. If anyone let that get out of focus, I imagine it was because there were other things in the way.
When you say you were involved with Chuck Mitzler, I have to assume that means you worked with him in ministry. I have found that when people work together in the ministry, they often have their vision clouded by religion. I’m not sure why that is, since I have never worked in the field myself, but I imagine it probably has a lot to do with the enemy targeting God’s workers. But I have seen wonderful people brought low by petty issues because others have a difficult time viewing them objectively.
Obviously I do not know what kind of issues you have with Chuck M, but I fail to understand why you believe your personal problems would effect how others follow, or don’t follow, Jesus Christ. While Chuck had some unique ideas about the Nephelim and the Rapture, he absolutely believed that Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life. And while he found the so-called Bible codes fascinating, he never claimed to have discovered them.
While it is very important for us to keep our eyes open, to study the scriptures, and be wise to tricksters, Jesus also teaches us to be patient and merciful, forgiving and loving. Long suffering, as the Bible so often says.
I am also curious about your obvious deep seated resentment of the Calvary Chapel movement. The fact that you are investing so much time in blogging an expose of sorts (after Chuck Smith’s death, interestingly enough) on the “church” that has brought millions to faith in the last 4 decades is very, very odd.
Why is it everyone treats you so poorly? Why is everyone picking on YOU?
God chose Chuck Smith for Calvary Chapel, not you. God gave Chuck Mitzler a genius mind, not you. Are you really just resentful that God hasn’t chosen you for these things, so you look for reasons to criticize them? Its really easy to do. Everyone does it. I’m not saying that’s what’s going on, because I don’t know you. I just happen to be a student of human nature, and have been going to Calvary Chapels since 1976, so I have a really difficult time believing that there’s a legitimate reason for your bitterness.
Please don’t think I’m attacking you, because I’m not. I’m simply throwing out some food for thought. I don’t know you, and you don’t know me, so there’s no risk of me hurting your feelings, or visa versa. Just one Christian sister talking to another Christian brother. I will be praying for you to find peace, since it seems there is bitterness in your heart. Try to find a way to release the anger in a way that does not require airing the church’s dirty laundry for the whole world to see. You will feel so much better when you get rid of the bitter. Believe me. : )
Hi Candace,
I’ll get a chance to re-read your reply and respond point by point sometime this week. I’ve got lots of joyous art & music projects going on.
Let me simply say that your response is very typical of how we were programmed to think and act when I was at CCCM, and that I have moved on (“free at last, thank God almighty I’m free at last”) to continue in love & service to Jesus and the greater community of believers and not-yet-believers.
Part of what I see happening, and that I will continue to warn about is wacky stuff like what Missler used to peddle, which is now being adopted by those who are prone to conspiracy malarkey (QAnon)
Missler had more comments about what he could not reveal for national security reasons than the FBI has redactions from released documents. I found him to be a bright, interesting, indoctrinated, synthesizer of meaningless ideas and nonsense. He was popular with pseudo educated easily wowed people. Reviving this thread will be fun. Missler Redivivus
i always found Missler’s delivery style too hard to follow, but i do know that he more than likely did know “stuff” of a national security nature that he could not reveal because if you’re involved in government programs/contracts you’re sworn to secrecy with some very heavy penalties if you talk… many men have gone to their graves knowing things that, if revealed could put their families at risk
just watching the scene unfolding today ought to make us wary of a government that is too big and too powerful to be the government of a democratic republic such as we’re supposed to have in the U.S.
now i’ll probably get a visit from those men in black LOL
This is in response to Michael
it seems you are feeling a little inadequate . Chuck was A genius who somehow has made you look into yourself and realize you are coming up short . at what part of the psychosexual stages of development do you have unresolved issues because brother you need to have them resolved . we are searching for God and there should not be any hate Involved in our walk with Jesus christ.
Kingdom power and Glory changed the way I think about eschatology and to be honest the Bible is not complete if you can’t apply the rewards, and any student of the inductive study method can see it in the language it was originally written in. He served God for over 50 years, and was not afraid to speak truth.
Judgement is coming for nonbelievers and the Bema seat for the body of Christ… it won’t be long before you see that Chuck was given the gift of wisdom and knowledge..
God bless everyone who seeks Him with a whole heart, and I also warn everyone not to bring a charge against Gods elect..
Don’t know how I missed this entire post. BD drilled it. The dude was a pseudoscience wing nut. And all the political notoriety was used to his full potential. At the time, he could have said aliens were being held in Area 51 and every Christian would have believed it.
Chuck missler espoused Jesus Christ as his Lord and savior, period. He loved the Bible, and he loved finding hidden truths within the Bible. He was gifted in so many ways; one was making us think more deeply about what we read in the Bible. He was a brilliant mind and man. He is missed here but Heaven is rejoicing. I will miss him greatly; and thank God for his life and work.
Lots of jaded people trolling a dead man here. What’s the purpose? I get a strange feeling as I scroll through these comments. Doesn’t really feel like the Holy Spirit in this place, or grace, or humility… or kindness even. RIP Chuck
Hmmm, “too much to think”? And who is thinking too much? I am certainly NOT accusing anyone of thinking. Definitely NOT thinking TOO MUCH. Not based on the comments I have seen.
The accusations against Chuck Mitzler have been way off base, as far as I have seen. For instance the claim that he had actually named dates for Jesus’s return. What he really said was, “If anyone says ‘Jesus is coming back on this date, or that date’, you can rest assured He will NOT come back on that day!” Because the Bible is very very clear about No one knows the day, nor the hour He will return, only the Father. Not even the Son. Chuck was very good about reminding folks this often, so hearing all these negative nellies squawking about nonsense makes me laugh. Almost as much as this ridiculous meme.
The defensiveness of this meme speaks more loudly than any retort I could come back with. I will only suggest you spend more time in God’s Word. A lot more time.
Whoa, dude! I just opened the link you left in a post last year, in August, I think. Yeah, I admit, I wasn’t even curious enough to check it out back then, but I went ahead and opened it today.
First, I have to ask…are you seriously accusing OTHER PEOPLE of being conspiracy theory nut jobs, while reading (and apparently buying into) MSM BS like the Washington Post article you attached?
I can honestly say I have never heard of that so-called movement, never seen anyone wearing those Shirts, and have no idea what you’re talking about. And it has absolutely nothing to do with anything Chuck Mitzler ever taught. Proving yet again you Mitzler critics really have no idea what you’re talking about…and you are the conspiracy theory nuts….
Candance,
I think you have played your part in trying to educate these friends on biblical way of addressing such issues. Everyone is personally answerable to the Almighty God. With God’s mercy some will learn the truth and repent.
Personally I don’t see anything wrong with me man even if I disagree with some of his assertions.
God bless you sister
Um, his name was spelled “Missler”, not “Mitzler”, just for the record.
“Biblical way”? That’s laughable.
To critique of the work or behavior of anyone among us, living or deceased, this is how we learn, challenge, and grow. To not wrestle with issues about our faith, or refraining to debate the ones who take up the mantle of teacher or prophet, or quote them favorably without questioning them as well is to refuse to grow as individuals or collectively as God’s people. If you want to be “biblical”, read our record of history, those who came before us called out sin, spoke truth to power, and reinforced the notion that, though noble as we may be, we are also flawed. To lionize anyone is to forget our own humanity as well.
I am a mormon who grew up in a jewish neighborhood in Baltimore, MD in the 60s and 70s. I went on an LDS mission to Colombia. During my mission I had an incredible experience that changed my life and sparked an interest in prophesy. I have been watching his tapes , especially those about the book of Isaiah , and have been greatly enriched by this man’s amazing knowledge and powerful spirit. He shares and has helped me understand many of the literal prophetic directions. Praise the Lord for the gift that this man was divinely given.
Just see this and wanted to note That I’m sad to have found out the passing of a tremendous teacher and man of God. His attitude of Acts 17-11 I think… is his disclaimer… I look forward to the day that by Gods grace I may actually meet Chuck…couple of things for this world During a time that will be marked in history … (1)the people who God sent his son to redeem …nailed him to a cross ,beat him beyond recognition doing so …with that said I ask …to those who have been offended by a Christian or claming to b because they have wronged you in some certain way or another…YOU need to to get your money back! Because you have missed out on the cost of Gods plan for man kind…In a Time of the final curtain…We need to understand all the petty shit means nothing… I will not name names here but as THE LIE comes and deception will abound ..when Truth is now a Offender…. How does one find their way? How does one discern truth?? You will know them by there FRUITS!! ….Chucks Fruits Are Undeniable and the Enemy knows it!!! Even in death my friend You are dangerous!! RIp
Michael, You have posted numerous times on this thread yet not once chosen a specific doctrine or belief of Chuck’s teaching to argue against, using scripture to validate your opinion that he was wrong (I’m Not referring to Chuck’s speculations or theories that he himself said were his alone) . Please choose at least one topic he taught as doctrine and share your scriptural reasoning for your difference of opinion. I first heard Chuck speak at CCCM in 1980 . I went to his evening studies that summer and was blessed by what I learned about Genie is and collected his Firefighters for Christ cassette tapes on Genisis, Revelation,Daniel and John and was soon discovering a world of reasons for holding the bible as a book above all others..The word of God.
Before the Throne of The FATHER, Missler followed in the footsteps of Vernon McGee – an unparalleled passion and reverence for The Word of GOD: every book, chapter, verse, word, letter, and as Missler remarked the very spaces between the letters; from b’rashet to amen – a single, interlaced, hyperdimensional communique from MAJESTY ON HIGH; an eternal, inestimable Gift of Lovingkindness and Tender Mercy.
All of us will find out fairly soon, how import The WORD is to The LORD, . . . and how beloved those who love HIS WORD.
I would not get condescending or snarky with brothers and sisters who dedicate their lives to The WORD of GOD, lest our own commitment be someday revealed.
How many 1000’s of US dollars did you lose on all of Chuck Missler’s Y2K hysteria that he was pushing back in the late 1990’s? Are you aware that Missler plagiarized other people’s work? When was called out on it, the books in question were discontinued (after how many got sold?).
Of course he was a hard-core premillennial dispensationalist, which of course, is a whole other story.
To j2theperson
We should love and respect a brother in Christ. Jesus is coming back for a united body, His church. The foundation of His church is love – Love thy God above all things, and live your neighbour as yourself. It is when we love one another, by this the world will know we are His disciples. He even calls us to love our enemies. Is the late Chuck your enemy?
Certainly, in his teaching on the book of Jude confirms for me the strange doctrine that has been spewed out of America in the last decades. No Christian is perfect. We are being made perfect. By embracing the work of the cross daily in our lives ( identifying with the sufferings of Christ, dying to our flesh, we partake to His resurrection life), we are being transformed into His image. So that there is less of us, and more of Him. We grow in our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
I heard Missler live once. I was amused but the allure of the man’s hypnotic message laced with allusions to all the things he could not tell us kept my attention. Saw the comment posted here and had to retrace the report of his death. Missler was novel, iconic, inventive, conspiratorial, and yet conventional enough within his niche to always have devotees.
His kind will always find a hearing. He died but this thread lives on.
Oh Michael. So sorry for what you have missed. Chuck Missler tirelessly pointed to the way any human being can survive. You cannot trivialize his unsparing effort to reconcile people like you with an Eternity with Jesus Christ (without sounding spiteful yourself). Chuck imitated Jesse by being humble. Chuck was brilliant. He failed In a few businesses, corrected himself, and never hid his failure, so that others could realize more is learned in The trough, than at the top. RIP indeed. Save your silly childish posting. It’s remarkable in only how much understanding you lack. I hope you meet Chuck if you actually make heaven. You can apologize at that time, sin.
Oh Michael. So sorry for what you have missed. Chuck Missler tirelessly pointed to the way any human being can survive. You cannot trivialize his unsparing effort to reconcile people like you with an Eternity with Jesus Christ (without sounding spiteful yourself). Chuck imitated Jesse by being humble. Chuck was brilliant. He failed In a few businesses, corrected himself, and never hid his failure, so that others could realize more is learned in The trough, than at the top. RIP indeed. Save your silly childish posting. It’s remarkable in only how much understanding you lack. I hope you meet Chuck if you actually make heaven. You can apologize at that time, son.
I find Mr Misslers work intriguing. I feel like I have a much better understanding of who God is from his work. I recommend ‘ Learn the bible in 24 hours’ to every serious Christian..May his soul rest in peace.
(Wow. I saw something online that made me Google Chuck. Had no memory of this thread it’s so old. CM lives! Or at least on this thread he does. No idea if any are still here.)
@apickleintime…If your still here.
First. There are no aliens. There are no alien species traversing the Universe, because the Universe was not designed for that purpose. Science fiction is not actually scientific.
With that said, any appearence of a non- terrestrial would be the end of religion as we know it. And it will take place.
I don’t recall CM believing in extraterrestrials. He was interested in sightings. He gave lectures about them. I no longer remember if he understood them to be angelic, or demonic. The Church is often not precise in definitions, and certainly does not explore scientific or metaphysical phenomena.
The Scriptures discribe passage between the Worlds. Jacob witnessed this in real time at a place he named Bethel. Roughly translated as, the House of El/God. It wasn’t really. But, he did the best he could, with the knowledge he had. Just like Chuck Missler was doing the best he knew how.
I knew a devout, born again Believer, a corporate executive, he knew Missler personally and knew him to be a serious, born again son of God. I have yet to meet a teacher of The Word that i can “amen” every word he says…. But these folk ARE God’s sons – of that i have no doubt…. are we not allowed to speculate on things not explained in the Word? Dunno, but we do know that Satan and his crew are at work now deceiving? YES!
Em. Yes we are definitely able to ponder any number of questions. The concept of a prohibition was explicitly contained in the Cannons of Dort, 1619. I dont recall if the Church Fathers stated this as well.
Im very unsure what to make of Missler. He was clearly an orthodox Christian having Fundamentalist influences in his life. He was however, more educated then typical Fund, or later Evangelicals. Specifically more then pastors/teachers for whom education is not a reference to scientific studies.
For example, he often spoke of demensions, and time domains. That is actually related to physics. Its real. But he did not use precise vernacular accepted by physicist. That’s confusing and leaves me unclear what he believed.
I liked him. But again, am unclear. I suspect he was led astray later in life. He made statements I find alarming, and he associated with Kim Clement. The singing prophet guy. He reffered to the concept of a ten dimension Universe. This is a problem.
Jesus said he would spit out the lukewarm. Pastor Chuck Missler always believed in taking God’s word literally. As far as him moving to another country, so what! I’d leave this one too if I could get out. I was born in the United States of America and I feel like I will die and communist China without even moving geographically. I don’t want to be here when the stock market crashes and I’m faced with dying for lack of medication and starvation and even being homeless. Chuck Missler was a great man and I believe he supported many of his beliefs with strong evidence. And I can care less if he quoted anybody else and forgetting to mention their name. That’s where it should be shared freely! Nobody owns what God gives to their mind unless God specifically States unto you only!
JESUS said HE would spit out the lukewarm. Pastor Chuck Missler always believed in taking God’s word literally. As far as him moving to another country, so what ! I’d leave this one too if I could get out. I was born in the United States of America and I feel like I will die in communist China without even moving geographically. I don’t want to be here when the stock market crashes and I’m faced with dying for lack of medication and starvation and even being homeless. Chuck Missler was a great man of GOD and he supported many of his beliefs with strong evidence. I can care less if he quoted anybody else and forgot to mention their name. GODS word should be shared freely! Nobody owns what GOD gives to their mind unless GOD specifically states ,”unto you only”.
You folks so freely bash a saint of God and yet I’ve never heard about you ! it’s not a good time to have satan as your bed partner. Grab JESUS while you can.
When I heard chuck for the very first time on his bible radio program, I was like a kindergartner trying to learn physics. Brilliant man from the perspective of teaching and most certainly gifted of god.
It’s funny how cowards like Michael go silent when pressed to provide specific details about his vague criticisms. Not a peep after Bill’s post. RIP Chuck! I love your teachings, and look forward to meeting you in heaven.
This thread is more than three years old. Once a thread gets more than a week or two old, individual comments will come in randomly here and there and can very easily be missed due to their singular nature (as opposed to current and active threads that get commented on multiple times a day, if not even multiple times within minutes). It’s also possible the comment was observed at some point well after it was made, at which point it probably would be inconsequential to respond as this Bill is likely not a regular reader and would never even see the response.
On top of that, Michael just very recently had open heart surgery. The last thing he needs to do now is to get into some pissing match with someone who wants to come along and call him a coward over dubious circumstances. Nor will I as to not prolong such a thing in our community here. This will be my only comment.
Kevin, he kept replying with his hate filled replies to anyone who defended Chuck for over 2 years. He only stopped when someone asked him to explain his unfounded accusations. It is one thing to disagree with someone. But Michael and his few buddies were slandering Chuck with lies and making fun of him.
Google is your friend.
Lots of ink has been spilled over Misslers aberrant theology and other issues.
I am many things…a coward isn’t one of them.
If that’s the level of theological discussion you’re capable of, then the worth of your teachers speaks for itself.
Move on.
Are you even Christian? Because you just seem like a bully to me. I don’t need to Google search. Ive listened to him plenty. He has reached millions. You have a wordpress blog. Your community is toxic, and you talk tough, but give no proof of your accusations….because you can’t. Shame on you.
I still see no proof given of Chuck Missler’s heresy. Proof of plagiarism was given, but I haven’t researched that source & claim yet. Please provide proof of Missler teaching false doctrine & or being a heretic. It’s so easy in our culture for those who have come from higher education or who have applied themselves to study hard to show themselves approved, to fall into a pride & copy the world in the way they take on a sophisticated, witty, & very prideful demeanor while attacking others. Why is this the case because even redeemed people may will to do right, but the doing of what is right is only accomplished by the power of the Holy Spirit & we all in the human race are so prideful!
I witnessed this exact scenario play out in a church members meeting decades ago, where some of the congregation were trying to oust a pastor with public speeches before the church voted. Bottom line, no one had any proof of false teaching. I’ve barely heard the teachings of Chuck Missler, but I know the teachings of Calvary Chapel are Biblically accurate. I came across this thread because I was researching whether or not Chuck Missler accurately divides the Word of God & uses correct hermeneutics. All that matters is facts, so if you have proof, please provide it because false teachers should be exposed. This thread has been convoluted from the beginning with comments about the Calvary Chapel split & not being allowed to question pastors or those in leadership in the Calvary Chapel churches. I never attended a Calvary Chapel in Southern CA, but putting people on pedestals & hierarchy was a problem in the Calvary Chapel Church I attended in WA State, an independent Pentecostal Church I attended 30 years ago, & I can say is probably a problem in almost every church across America & beyond because that’s human nature. It doesn’t make it right, it’s extremely detrimental to the growth of all believers, & completely opposite of how Jesus intended for the church to operate! However, that’s a total different subject. One person has come out & said they questioned Chuck M about a teaching they couldn’t confirm in their Strong’s Concordance, but it sounded like they emailed & never followed up w/ Chuck M beyond the one email attempt. This does not warrant accusing another believer of false teaching. This thread has been so grievous & I’m sure to our Heavenly Father as well! Someone, anyone, if this false teaching occurred, please speak out with the facts of Chuck Missler’s false teaching & or heresy.
It would seem that some people find fault with Chuck Missler and his teachings. I personally found him to be captivating and very insightful. His teachings are in line with the Bible and current events. Nothing could be more important for Christians than biblical teachings that are in line with the problems we face in current times. I think Chuck Missler did as good of a job bringing the gospel to the people as any Pastor I’ve known, and better than most. Of course this is just my opinion.
I fully intend to enrich my Bible learning with as much as I can from the belated Chuck Missler Youtube posts and others that are similar in teachings. My one regret is not getting the chance to meet and shake his hand.
May you Rest in Peace Chuck Missler.
I didn’t realize that comments were closed,my apologies.
It’s not good to speak ill of the dead and Missler has little lasting influence, so I will just note his death in passing…
I am sure the Missler was a fine person and may he RIP. I disagreed with his theology when it came to the end times stuff. I don’t consider him a dispensationalist as I doubt he was trained that way, but he was the typical rapture theology type and I will give him his due, he represented the position well.
If you ever want to know what rapture theology teaches about end times – the future of Israel, the temple and sacrificial system and end times timing you can do no better than to plug in a Missler tape.
In the 80s he worked closely with Don Stewart
Make sure to check out his work on the Nephilim and aliens as well…I would never suggest that anyone read anything he or his wife wrote. Ever.
Some of Missler’s physics lectures were quite captivating but I agree some of his conjectures especially in theology were quite bizarre. I still have his book “Learn the Bible in 24 hours” which I found somewhat useful. RIP Chuck.
Really? How do you know he he has little lasting influence?
Tim,
He’s part of the old Calvary Chapel days and you simply couldn’t sell much of his weird stuff today.
The passing of guys like this is difficult for me to comment on with grace…we have a history.
May he rest in peace…
Well, he missed his two big predictions: Y2K and the Rapture.
Why did he move to New Zealand 8 years ago? Family? Fleeing the awful stuff he predicted? Slightly curious.
EricL,
I can’t remember…I tried not to think about him much at all…
In 1992 Chuck came and spoke at a church I was attending while going to college in Seattle. His talks on the integrated nature of the Bible, how things interconnect in the Old and New Testaments, patterns in scripture, these are the things that inspired me to want to be a Bible teacher. I found them so exciting. They got me into the Bible like never before and it was evidently apparent to my friends because I was living out scripture like I never had before. The Spirit brought God’s word to life in me, and say what you will, it was because of Chuck Missler.
If nothing else, Chuck wasn’t afraid to explore any idea and he encouraged that fearless exploration in others, even if you came to different conclusions. It was his personal challenge to everyone to chase things down for yourself and not believe anything from anyone out of hand that I think should be one of his lasting legacies. I know it is in my life.
Okay Michael 🙂
EricL,
I remember reading or hearing some years back that Missler had some changes in his beliefs about the Rapture. He was still pre-trib/pre-mill and held to the Rapture, but some specifics changed such as I think he believed that only seriously spiritual Christians would be raptured and the “less spiritual” ones would get left behind with the unbelievers. These changes apparently caused him to lose favor with some in Calvary Chapel, as of course you know, messing with the Rapture is almost akin to heresy to some in CC. I don’t know if these changes in circumstance have anything to do with him moving to New Zealand, but it does make me wonder if it played a role being that a large base of his platform and popularity was through CC that he may have then lost to some degree.
Besides that, I don’t know much of the man. I heard him speak a couple times and found him to be both interesting and strange. The topics he spoke on struck me more as distractions, more than anything else.
I imagine the man loved the Lord and his ministry had some positive impacts as Corby personally attests to. May he now be enjoying the presence of his Savior.
My wife read Nancy Misslers book ‘Way of Agape’ 20 years ago and she would say it was instrumental in saving our marriage.
Resources we draw from these days have changed a bit.
Chuck used to be pretty big up here in the Coeur d’Alene (where Koinonia House is located), but after he moved to NZ, he pretty much fell off the radar. Because of his CDA roots, I understand there will be a memorial service here in North Idaho, I only bumped into his work in a fringe sort of way, never really grabbed me. His penchant toward plagiarism wasn’t helpful.
I won’t dispute that some may have found something spiritually valuable in his work.
I was positively impacted by Jimmy Swaggart at one point in my life…
Chuck amused me by all of his allusions to stuff he couldn’t tell us. I was certain that all of that was smoke and mirrors.
I went down Missler memory lane for a few minutes…that was all I could take.
FWIW….
Someone mentioned Y2K? In olden times programming required saving as much memory as was possible… instead of saving 1988, the date inputed was allowed just 2 characters: 88. Business being bottom line oriented (and then very computer ignorant) wasn’t about to update their perfectly good systems with expensive new ones. It is obvious that there was a problem with old software still in use at the turn of the century – if your birth date had been recorded as 57, now you’d be spit out of the system as not yet born… not to mention financial record problems… We didn’t have a disaster thanks to some very dedicated hard working folk in the 1990s.
RIP indeed, Mr. Missler. Precious few wise, mighty or noble men are called out of their carnal lives to love and serve God. A place where human intelligence is almost a handicap…
My understanding (could be wrong) was that when the Missler’s material success went south the Christian community that they’d been associated with (CC? I dont know) abandoned him… God didn’t.
I didn’t follow his teaching career as i didnt find him gifted to teach … dunno But the man loved God and the Faith, of that i have no doubt…
I know quite a few people, mostly cerebral tyoes, from the 1960s on, who’d have moved to New Zealand in a heartbeat, if they could, including my late husband and my youngest daughter
I was much more saddened when Art Bell died.
#15 – think “military industrial complex” … Back then the industrial end of things were run by men like Missler and an uncle of mine, a little higher up the food chain than Missler, who,sworn to secrecy, take to their graves knowledge of behind the scenes machinations – even outdated facts. “My lips are sealed” meant just that. Their view of integrity, i guess… Or maybe they’d be shot LOL dunno. ?
Don’t know Missler. I assume he was on the far end of the Dispensational tree.
Funny how death evens it all out. Whatever differences I may have had, or nto, with the man, where he is now they don’t matter at all.
I benefited from attending Chucks Monday night studies in the Fellowship Hall at CCCM before Greg Laurie started doing his Harvest gatherings in the Main Sanctuary. That was 1987 or so?
It was from him that I learned how the whole Bible fits together and is one story.
RIP Chuck.
Paias! Good to see you!
Chuck missler sparked a lot of interest in the Bible by those who normally would not be interested.
His stuff on the nephilim is interesting and aliens is relevant to this generation of young people who grew constantly being told that aliens are coming.
I think even Robert Downey Jr (Iron Man) said he was fond of his work. I think he was a bit more influential than you give him credit for.
He might have been off on a few areas but he was a great teacher who made the Bible relatable to people.
I could spend an hour listing his bizarre notions…but whatever floats your boat…
I see a dynamic at work that i don’t know that we can blame the late Missler for creating… CEOs in general are considered more insightful than the rest of us and, in general, i think they believe it themselves – over half the time it is the troops under them, competent people, busting their butts to make things work… fulfilling the vision of the boss
Could it be that Missler brought his CEO mindset to the Faith, threw out insights that he thought were valid with the subconscious CEO attitude: “seems right to me; lets see if it works?”
Both contemporary Christianity and science have really been operating on the denial of the supernatural. Things seem to be changing in the God denying scientific world as they explore the ideas of life on other planets and multiple dimensions beyond the traditional – i see that as dangerous, opening the unbeliever to validating the demonic…
On the other hand, the Believer who is blind to supernatural, to other dimensions is also taking a dangerous stand…. So?
So, right or wrong in his conjectures, wasn’t Missler right in making us question and search?…. IMV the Bible is a supernatural book able to reveal what our natural eyes can’t see … perhaps, we should question all our teachers, but prayerfully as we do?
He was a brother in Christ and deserves our respect, even if we do not agree with his theology.
I disagree that simply being a Christian means a person deserves to be respected.
And I wouldn’t classify the bundle of conspiracy theories and tall tales he believed in as “theology”.
Out of curiosity, did anything he predict actually happen?
I seem to remember that Chuck Missler was caught on one, if not at least two occasions plagiarizing someone else’s work.
My father and I religiously listened to him on the radio until y2k…. we had stuff packed up and ready to go. When it was all said and done that was the first time I realized that not everything on kwve was true, and my dad dialed back the end times fiction books that were common at the time. Either way RIP, nobody gets it right 100% of the time.
@ Michael. I could almost be forgiven for thinking you are not a Missler follower.
Speaking ill of the dead, was not actually on the two tablets of stone, as is widely believed.
Why don’t you go ahead and list Missler’s ideas you disapprove of. It could even be a fresh post, so the comment thread is fresh as well.
We lift up the family, friends, and many students of Chuck Missler in prayer.
Nathan,
If biblical illiteracy has reached the point where Missler’s bizarre teachings about aliens and the Bible and his horrific splitting of Christians into classes doesn’t immediately cause people concern,then I’m not wasting my time.
Missler and his fake doctorate only gained prominence because Chuck Smith gave him a platform.
I had the privilege of leading worship for his studies at CCCM.
Chuck allowed me complete freedom, sometimes sat quietly & prayerfully, and would joke about my name about 1x/month just to be a kidder.
It was back in the early days of emails and laptops that I sent him questions about his teaching that the names of the patriarchs, when read in order of appearance in the Torah, translated from the Hebrew to English actually created a Gospel narrative. Wow, what an amazing proof of the intricate design of God engineering the very truth of Jesus into the word of God!
When my wife and I tried to use our Strong’s concordance to research the teaching it was not as he taught, not even close, so I emailed him…
…never a response.
I decided that if a response was not warranted he and I needed to gently & quietly part ways, I mean, who am I to question and I probably got it wrong!?
Thus ended that worship opportunity.
=(
Why do you think his LBU Phd is fake?
(I’m just reading his website)
Josh,
At the time Missler got his “doctorate” LBU was an unaccredited online diploma mill.
It even allowed transfer “credits” from Misslers “university” to them.
People could also get “credits” by buying one of his books and doing a paper on it.
Maybe I should start “Phoenix Preacher U”…
Here’s the teaching…
http://www.khouse.org/articles/1996/44/
Michael,
Try “Phoenix Preacher Vegan Steaks”…
Michael, not a good idea…. PPU ? ?
@36 – They are still unaccredited. I didn’t know there reputation. They have a long list of famous people who got degrees from there, so that does seem fishy.
PPU…Can I teach? 🙂
Josh,
As always, you have an open invitation…
Can you give me a doctorate for some of my comments, so I can skip the hard stuff?
G-man,
Your story points out one of my big problems with these sorts of “teachers”.
They don’t get people interested in a real study of scripture, but in some hackneyed twist that makes them feel as if they are now in possession of gnosis…
Josh,
We require at lest one article and a donation… 🙂
Josh,
You already got a trophy a couple years back for making it to the Phoenix Preacher Hall of Fame. Now you want a doctorate, too? The greed of some knows no end. 🙂
Besides, I think Michael owes me a doctorate first. 🙂
I’d settle for a “participation” ribbon. 😉
Gman’s experience with Missler’s teaching is sad…. Sends my thoughts into what if conjectures… What if someone in the organization culled those emails? What if somehow Gman had been able to persist, to get a face to face and resolve the contradictions being taught… There is danger in being so “important” that you are above question…. RIP lover of the things of God – a merciful God, who has had to clean up messes greater than Missler may have created… IMHO ?
Kevin, yur Phd will be in Philadelphia fandom 🙂
My apologies, Dr. Kuhn.
My printer ran out of ink… 🙂
fil,
I’ll bring you one in exchange for lunch… 🙂
A vegan steak, medium ripe?
The bible codes convinced me to only eat meat dishes for lunch… 🙂
Josh,
I already got one of those PhD’s a long time ago. 🙂
Michael,
Good thing that printer ran out of ink. Otherwise, my last name apparently would have been spelled wrong. 🙂
KevinH,
My apologies…we awarded a doctorate to Bowie Kuhn posthumously… 🙂
Michael,
It’s a case of Missler it backfired because he always encouraged us to do our own homework and be “good Bereans” who checked the scriptures for themselves.
When we did and the teaching was questioned and stonewalled we decided to find another community of believers led by leadership who welcomed questions and gave timely responses.
In our case we still fellowship with and serve a community of believers who are willing to admit we question and often cannot find answers for the solid teachings, and we just smile and roll our eyes when anyone brings up the fringe stuff.
Em,
Back in those days I had an ethic of daring NOT to question, and it was part of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa ethos during the times of Romaine when he was assistant pastor.
Over the years I’ve become far more winsome and learned to be a co-participant, and ask in a way that is far more disarming. I’ve learned this from my friends who are Rabbis and working with visiting scholars. Judaism encourages questions and struggling with one’s faith, fundamentalism & evangelicalism not so much.
Clean up messes? I think if we stopped putting people on high and lofty places in our minds and adopted the idea that we’re all just fellow travelers who discover a well of drinkable water from time to time we’d have less celebrity clergy and more side by side servant role models.
This guy is fascinating…
#56 – Judaism does indeed encourage questioning. – what better way to learn than ask questions
We should be ashamed of elevating our teachers and Christian personalities to “lofty places.” On the other hand, we should aim to grow in knowledge to a level that allows us to give respect to our true scholars. Our Faith does have them. ..
Praying for discernment, em
Here’s a little more on why it’s hard to nail down the names…
http://www.khouse.org/articles/2000/284/
I wonder how many years after the initial question this was posted?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Em,
“Respect” is a scary word in a community of “sheep”.
“Touch not God’s anointed” will immediately follow.
This is an interesting thread…. I suspect that God (maybe Missler, too) is pleased with the attitude and honesty working out here…. Dunno….
Jesus would that we pray to be confident of our place in The Father’s love
I’m pretty sure there was a reason that my husband and i never got involved with Calvary Chapel…. Even though i am indebted to Chuck Smith for guiding some dear family members to their redemption, i am pretty sure that we would have been shown the exit door much quicker than some here were. Probably the fire exit! LOL
Personally, I found Missler to be far more to my liking, then a Skip Heizig personality. And I did take his advice to be good Bereans.
One thing that intrigued me was he seemed to become fearful, at the end. I’m speaking here of the NZ move, and the political tone. This tone sounded identical to most other Conservative leaders. Given his doctrine, I would have expected a more robust eschatology.
What’s the “NZ move”?
@Bob1.
New Zealand. I wasn’t sure what they where trying to do. Maybe he just liked it and wanted to retire.
FWIW… For some reason years ago we received a koinonia house news letter,, hard copy or electronic i don’t recall, nor how we got on the mailing list… that said, i seem to recall that Nancy M. fell in love with N.Z. and the people involved in their work there and wanted to settle there…. dunno if that was why they immigrated …?….
A NZ retirement could definitely be the logical explanation. The continued ministry activities could be easily explained as a reluctance to be idle in old age.
As has been noted above, he had non-Orthodox ideas. But his radio comments often seemed Orthodox Evangelicalism regarding perceived American morality, and public policy.
It confuses me how one could believe in a multiverse, and multi dimensions of time, while considering Conservatism to be relevant. It feels like you should have broader horizons the public policy.
Our pastor mentioned the gospel in the genesis patriarch’s names this last Sunday.
But his radio comments often seemed Orthodox <<<
No.
"orthodox" to some but definitely not Orthodox.
@70.
Xenia you are correct. My capitalization error changed the context.
FWIW I did my own research into the gospel in genealogy thing some years ago (specifically Genesis 5). It doesn’t work in Strong’s because Strong’s is relatively light-weight linguistically. The names are words and compound words, like the word “photograph.” When you look up the words as words, not just as transliterated names, and look at the roots in better language tools, it does work out.
I’m not trying to defend Missler, that’s just my own research. After doing it I felt confident/comfortable enough to teach it from the pulpit, not just parrot it.
Michael, and the others commenting on the Gospel genealogy message, I remember Chuck saying, “We owe the Hebrew scholars a huge debt” for actually discovering these Bible codes. He did not take credit for discovering them, disclosing them, or decoding them.
The words I remember Chuck saying, perhaps more than any other, were, “It’s something to think about “. As far as aliens are concerned, he firmly believed the so-called “aliens” are actually demonic beings that come from inner space, not outer space. Interestingly enough, many believers of the “Visitors from Beyond ” are now joining in that theory.
I must say I am very disappointed at the attitudes I have seen in some of these posts. I would expect that sort of response from the unbeleiving Facebook crowd. But when Christians decide to criticize a dead man, whose love of God is NOT in question, because you don’t agree with his theology, on a page meant to memorialize him, it’s rather disrespectful. And, I’m sorry, it’s not what ANYONE expects from Christian’s.
Yep, I said it. Don’t accuse a dead man of plagiarism when he can’t defend himself. I only know he cited dozens of sources when I heard him speak, never taking credit for other people’s work. He had a brilliant mind, and many people can’t follow his ideas. He had many ideas, and they didn’t always go the same direction. He acknowledged that. That’s the way smart people think, and people who can’t follow those thought patterns often get flustered, then angry, and sometimes they react the way I see here.
It’s ok to disagree with someone. You can disagree with someone and still love them as a brother or sister in Christ. That’s what we’re called to do. How can we love God, who we have never seen, if we can’t love one another, when we can see and hear and touch each other here?
Strange about the comment that Brother Chuck missed on the date of the Rapture. I’ve never heard him set a day, and he was dead set against anyone attempting to do so.
Also, the accusation that he plagiarized material is just hands-on wrong. He was a careful and gifted scholar who attempted to present complex ideas so that ordinary people could understand them. I would challenge the idea that he presented others’ ideas without giving the originator credit, except by unintentional, human errors. Everyone makes mistakes, as these two accusations demonstrations.
Jim Porter, those were my thoughts exactly. In fact, I remember Chuck saying, loosely quoted, “If someone sets a date for the Rapture, you can rest assured the Rature will NOT happen that day!”
I also remember him being very careful about giving credit where it belongs, especially to the Jewish scholars who actually uncovered the so-called Bible codes. He NEVER took credit for finding those.
Candance,
Chuck M was an entertaining guy, full of “thought provoking” ideas, but as one who served him, and engaged him and came away damaged, I’m definitly not going to silently sit by just because he died, a shared destiny each of us will have. Knowing our lives are finite, we should live in such a way that when when questioned we should respond, when something we create or teach is called to question, we should do our best to make it right, and even retract our mistakes.
I wish Chuck M had done so, but moreover I wish that the idea that a person with a following is somehow above questioning during life or when they pass on is why we continue to have oddball teachings repeated, which lead people away from sound teaching and sound thinking and ultimately distract people from Jesus.
Again and again this is why that #JesusNeedsNewPR
I find your response a bit confusing. I agree Chuck was an interesting guy, and he had a lot of different ideas about things that were at odds with some other teachers. But I never found anything he did or said distracting from the main thing: Jesus and the Gospel. In fact, he stressed that often, how the Bible was 66 books written by over 50 different authors over a period of over two thousand years yet it told a consistent story of Jesus Christ being our Lord and Saviour. If anyone let that get out of focus, I imagine it was because there were other things in the way.
When you say you were involved with Chuck Mitzler, I have to assume that means you worked with him in ministry. I have found that when people work together in the ministry, they often have their vision clouded by religion. I’m not sure why that is, since I have never worked in the field myself, but I imagine it probably has a lot to do with the enemy targeting God’s workers. But I have seen wonderful people brought low by petty issues because others have a difficult time viewing them objectively.
Obviously I do not know what kind of issues you have with Chuck M, but I fail to understand why you believe your personal problems would effect how others follow, or don’t follow, Jesus Christ. While Chuck had some unique ideas about the Nephelim and the Rapture, he absolutely believed that Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life. And while he found the so-called Bible codes fascinating, he never claimed to have discovered them.
While it is very important for us to keep our eyes open, to study the scriptures, and be wise to tricksters, Jesus also teaches us to be patient and merciful, forgiving and loving. Long suffering, as the Bible so often says.
I am also curious about your obvious deep seated resentment of the Calvary Chapel movement. The fact that you are investing so much time in blogging an expose of sorts (after Chuck Smith’s death, interestingly enough) on the “church” that has brought millions to faith in the last 4 decades is very, very odd.
Why is it everyone treats you so poorly? Why is everyone picking on YOU?
God chose Chuck Smith for Calvary Chapel, not you. God gave Chuck Mitzler a genius mind, not you. Are you really just resentful that God hasn’t chosen you for these things, so you look for reasons to criticize them? Its really easy to do. Everyone does it. I’m not saying that’s what’s going on, because I don’t know you. I just happen to be a student of human nature, and have been going to Calvary Chapels since 1976, so I have a really difficult time believing that there’s a legitimate reason for your bitterness.
Please don’t think I’m attacking you, because I’m not. I’m simply throwing out some food for thought. I don’t know you, and you don’t know me, so there’s no risk of me hurting your feelings, or visa versa. Just one Christian sister talking to another Christian brother. I will be praying for you to find peace, since it seems there is bitterness in your heart. Try to find a way to release the anger in a way that does not require airing the church’s dirty laundry for the whole world to see. You will feel so much better when you get rid of the bitter. Believe me. : )
Candace,
You have “smug” down to an art form.
Hi Candace,
I’ll get a chance to re-read your reply and respond point by point sometime this week. I’ve got lots of joyous art & music projects going on.
Let me simply say that your response is very typical of how we were programmed to think and act when I was at CCCM, and that I have moved on (“free at last, thank God almighty I’m free at last”) to continue in love & service to Jesus and the greater community of believers and not-yet-believers.
Part of what I see happening, and that I will continue to warn about is wacky stuff like what Missler used to peddle, which is now being adopted by those who are prone to conspiracy malarkey (QAnon)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/08/01/we-are-q-a-deranged-conspiracy-cult-leaps-from-the-internet-to-the-crowd-at-trumps-maga-tour/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4fd42e3d3a5a
It was only a matter of time.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Missler had more comments about what he could not reveal for national security reasons than the FBI has redactions from released documents. I found him to be a bright, interesting, indoctrinated, synthesizer of meaningless ideas and nonsense. He was popular with pseudo educated easily wowed people. Reviving this thread will be fun. Missler Redivivus
“…synthesizer of meaningless ideas and nonsense”
Excellent description!
#PointToDread
i always found Missler’s delivery style too hard to follow, but i do know that he more than likely did know “stuff” of a national security nature that he could not reveal because if you’re involved in government programs/contracts you’re sworn to secrecy with some very heavy penalties if you talk… many men have gone to their graves knowing things that, if revealed could put their families at risk
just watching the scene unfolding today ought to make us wary of a government that is too big and too powerful to be the government of a democratic republic such as we’re supposed to have in the U.S.
now i’ll probably get a visit from those men in black LOL
I fully concur with BD on this one…
Em,
You already did… wait, oh, you don’t remember the “flashy thing” do you?
https://78.media.tumblr.com/5d6e1bb61cbd4a2295857904f0a94a6d/tumblr_pd1zqcoQoE1sh491mo1_400.png
Candace,
I’ve decided to let your observations and critique of me remain.
Thanks for pointing out the speck in my eye.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is in response to Michael
it seems you are feeling a little inadequate . Chuck was A genius who somehow has made you look into yourself and realize you are coming up short . at what part of the psychosexual stages of development do you have unresolved issues because brother you need to have them resolved . we are searching for God and there should not be any hate Involved in our walk with Jesus christ.
chip,
If anyone should feel inadequate it’s an adult named “chip”.
When you grow up, chip, you’ll understand that disagreeing with someone isn’t a form of hatred or a lapse in “psychosexual” stages of development.
I usually have to pay for this sort of entertainment…
Kingdom power and Glory changed the way I think about eschatology and to be honest the Bible is not complete if you can’t apply the rewards, and any student of the inductive study method can see it in the language it was originally written in. He served God for over 50 years, and was not afraid to speak truth.
Judgement is coming for nonbelievers and the Bema seat for the body of Christ… it won’t be long before you see that Chuck was given the gift of wisdom and knowledge..
God bless everyone who seeks Him with a whole heart, and I also warn everyone not to bring a charge against Gods elect..
“I also warn everyone not to bring a charge against Gods elect..”
Bite me…
Don’t know how I missed this entire post. BD drilled it. The dude was a pseudoscience wing nut. And all the political notoriety was used to his full potential. At the time, he could have said aliens were being held in Area 51 and every Christian would have believed it.
Chuck missler espoused Jesus Christ as his Lord and savior, period. He loved the Bible, and he loved finding hidden truths within the Bible. He was gifted in so many ways; one was making us think more deeply about what we read in the Bible. He was a brilliant mind and man. He is missed here but Heaven is rejoicing. I will miss him greatly; and thank God for his life and work.
Chuck, RIP.
With love. Thanks for elucidating the Bible for some of us. Thanks for the passionate deliveries. Thanks for being.
Christopher Harper, Amen..I am puzzled at what some people think is appropriate to say about God’s elect. Oh well.
Lots of jaded people trolling a dead man here. What’s the purpose? I get a strange feeling as I scroll through these comments. Doesn’t really feel like the Holy Spirit in this place, or grace, or humility… or kindness even. RIP Chuck
Dare to question “God’s Elect”?!?!
Support your local Thought Police…
https://i.imgur.com/1GRVlZN.png
Hmmm, “too much to think”? And who is thinking too much? I am certainly NOT accusing anyone of thinking. Definitely NOT thinking TOO MUCH. Not based on the comments I have seen.
The accusations against Chuck Mitzler have been way off base, as far as I have seen. For instance the claim that he had actually named dates for Jesus’s return. What he really said was, “If anyone says ‘Jesus is coming back on this date, or that date’, you can rest assured He will NOT come back on that day!” Because the Bible is very very clear about No one knows the day, nor the hour He will return, only the Father. Not even the Son. Chuck was very good about reminding folks this often, so hearing all these negative nellies squawking about nonsense makes me laugh. Almost as much as this ridiculous meme.
The defensiveness of this meme speaks more loudly than any retort I could come back with. I will only suggest you spend more time in God’s Word. A lot more time.
Whoa, dude! I just opened the link you left in a post last year, in August, I think. Yeah, I admit, I wasn’t even curious enough to check it out back then, but I went ahead and opened it today.
First, I have to ask…are you seriously accusing OTHER PEOPLE of being conspiracy theory nut jobs, while reading (and apparently buying into) MSM BS like the Washington Post article you attached?
I can honestly say I have never heard of that so-called movement, never seen anyone wearing those Shirts, and have no idea what you’re talking about. And it has absolutely nothing to do with anything Chuck Mitzler ever taught. Proving yet again you Mitzler critics really have no idea what you’re talking about…and you are the conspiracy theory nuts….
Candance,
I think you have played your part in trying to educate these friends on biblical way of addressing such issues. Everyone is personally answerable to the Almighty God. With God’s mercy some will learn the truth and repent.
Personally I don’t see anything wrong with me man even if I disagree with some of his assertions.
God bless you sister
Um, his name was spelled “Missler”, not “Mitzler”, just for the record.
“Biblical way”? That’s laughable.
To critique of the work or behavior of anyone among us, living or deceased, this is how we learn, challenge, and grow. To not wrestle with issues about our faith, or refraining to debate the ones who take up the mantle of teacher or prophet, or quote them favorably without questioning them as well is to refuse to grow as individuals or collectively as God’s people. If you want to be “biblical”, read our record of history, those who came before us called out sin, spoke truth to power, and reinforced the notion that, though noble as we may be, we are also flawed. To lionize anyone is to forget our own humanity as well.
I miss you Chuck Missler
Stacey m
Ye of little faith ! God bless you all May your hearts open to the beauty of life…..everyone brings something to the table.
As did Chuck….
May he rest in eternal joy.
As for the rest of you ….you need to get a life ! Lol?❤️
I am a mormon who grew up in a jewish neighborhood in Baltimore, MD in the 60s and 70s. I went on an LDS mission to Colombia. During my mission I had an incredible experience that changed my life and sparked an interest in prophesy. I have been watching his tapes , especially those about the book of Isaiah , and have been greatly enriched by this man’s amazing knowledge and powerful spirit. He shares and has helped me understand many of the literal prophetic directions. Praise the Lord for the gift that this man was divinely given.
Carl,
You might want to put that on hold and study Christology…
Just see this and wanted to note That I’m sad to have found out the passing of a tremendous teacher and man of God. His attitude of Acts 17-11 I think… is his disclaimer… I look forward to the day that by Gods grace I may actually meet Chuck…couple of things for this world During a time that will be marked in history … (1)the people who God sent his son to redeem …nailed him to a cross ,beat him beyond recognition doing so …with that said I ask …to those who have been offended by a Christian or claming to b because they have wronged you in some certain way or another…YOU need to to get your money back! Because you have missed out on the cost of Gods plan for man kind…In a Time of the final curtain…We need to understand all the petty shit means nothing… I will not name names here but as THE LIE comes and deception will abound ..when Truth is now a Offender…. How does one find their way? How does one discern truth?? You will know them by there FRUITS!! ….Chucks Fruits Are Undeniable and the Enemy knows it!!! Even in death my friend You are dangerous!! RIp
Michael, You have posted numerous times on this thread yet not once chosen a specific doctrine or belief of Chuck’s teaching to argue against, using scripture to validate your opinion that he was wrong (I’m Not referring to Chuck’s speculations or theories that he himself said were his alone) . Please choose at least one topic he taught as doctrine and share your scriptural reasoning for your difference of opinion. I first heard Chuck speak at CCCM in 1980 . I went to his evening studies that summer and was blessed by what I learned about Genie is and collected his Firefighters for Christ cassette tapes on Genisis, Revelation,Daniel and John and was soon discovering a world of reasons for holding the bible as a book above all others..The word of God.
So quick question. If aliens did happen to come to earth what will you guys think?
Before the Throne of The FATHER, Missler followed in the footsteps of Vernon McGee – an unparalleled passion and reverence for The Word of GOD: every book, chapter, verse, word, letter, and as Missler remarked the very spaces between the letters; from b’rashet to amen – a single, interlaced, hyperdimensional communique from MAJESTY ON HIGH; an eternal, inestimable Gift of Lovingkindness and Tender Mercy.
All of us will find out fairly soon, how import The WORD is to The LORD, . . . and how beloved those who love HIS WORD.
I would not get condescending or snarky with brothers and sisters who dedicate their lives to The WORD of GOD, lest our own commitment be someday revealed.
So Oliver,
How many 1000’s of US dollars did you lose on all of Chuck Missler’s Y2K hysteria that he was pushing back in the late 1990’s? Are you aware that Missler plagiarized other people’s work? When was called out on it, the books in question were discontinued (after how many got sold?).
Of course he was a hard-core premillennial dispensationalist, which of course, is a whole other story.
To j2theperson
We should love and respect a brother in Christ. Jesus is coming back for a united body, His church. The foundation of His church is love – Love thy God above all things, and live your neighbour as yourself. It is when we love one another, by this the world will know we are His disciples. He even calls us to love our enemies. Is the late Chuck your enemy?
Certainly, in his teaching on the book of Jude confirms for me the strange doctrine that has been spewed out of America in the last decades. No Christian is perfect. We are being made perfect. By embracing the work of the cross daily in our lives ( identifying with the sufferings of Christ, dying to our flesh, we partake to His resurrection life), we are being transformed into His image. So that there is less of us, and more of Him. We grow in our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
I heard Missler live once. I was amused but the allure of the man’s hypnotic message laced with allusions to all the things he could not tell us kept my attention. Saw the comment posted here and had to retrace the report of his death. Missler was novel, iconic, inventive, conspiratorial, and yet conventional enough within his niche to always have devotees.
His kind will always find a hearing. He died but this thread lives on.
No one has opened the Bible more, made me more excited with Christ and caused me to study scripture more seriously than DR. Chuck Missler.
Oh Michael. So sorry for what you have missed. Chuck Missler tirelessly pointed to the way any human being can survive. You cannot trivialize his unsparing effort to reconcile people like you with an Eternity with Jesus Christ (without sounding spiteful yourself). Chuck imitated Jesse by being humble. Chuck was brilliant. He failed In a few businesses, corrected himself, and never hid his failure, so that others could realize more is learned in The trough, than at the top. RIP indeed. Save your silly childish posting. It’s remarkable in only how much understanding you lack. I hope you meet Chuck if you actually make heaven. You can apologize at that time, sin.
Oh Michael. So sorry for what you have missed. Chuck Missler tirelessly pointed to the way any human being can survive. You cannot trivialize his unsparing effort to reconcile people like you with an Eternity with Jesus Christ (without sounding spiteful yourself). Chuck imitated Jesse by being humble. Chuck was brilliant. He failed In a few businesses, corrected himself, and never hid his failure, so that others could realize more is learned in The trough, than at the top. RIP indeed. Save your silly childish posting. It’s remarkable in only how much understanding you lack. I hope you meet Chuck if you actually make heaven. You can apologize at that time, son.
I find Mr Misslers work intriguing. I feel like I have a much better understanding of who God is from his work. I recommend ‘ Learn the bible in 24 hours’ to every serious Christian..May his soul rest in peace.
(Wow. I saw something online that made me Google Chuck. Had no memory of this thread it’s so old. CM lives! Or at least on this thread he does. No idea if any are still here.)
@apickleintime…If your still here.
First. There are no aliens. There are no alien species traversing the Universe, because the Universe was not designed for that purpose. Science fiction is not actually scientific.
With that said, any appearence of a non- terrestrial would be the end of religion as we know it. And it will take place.
I don’t recall CM believing in extraterrestrials. He was interested in sightings. He gave lectures about them. I no longer remember if he understood them to be angelic, or demonic. The Church is often not precise in definitions, and certainly does not explore scientific or metaphysical phenomena.
The Scriptures discribe passage between the Worlds. Jacob witnessed this in real time at a place he named Bethel. Roughly translated as, the House of El/God. It wasn’t really. But, he did the best he could, with the knowledge he had. Just like Chuck Missler was doing the best he knew how.
I knew a devout, born again Believer, a corporate executive, he knew Missler personally and knew him to be a serious, born again son of God. I have yet to meet a teacher of The Word that i can “amen” every word he says…. But these folk ARE God’s sons – of that i have no doubt…. are we not allowed to speculate on things not explained in the Word? Dunno, but we do know that Satan and his crew are at work now deceiving? YES!
Em. Yes we are definitely able to ponder any number of questions. The concept of a prohibition was explicitly contained in the Cannons of Dort, 1619. I dont recall if the Church Fathers stated this as well.
Im very unsure what to make of Missler. He was clearly an orthodox Christian having Fundamentalist influences in his life. He was however, more educated then typical Fund, or later Evangelicals. Specifically more then pastors/teachers for whom education is not a reference to scientific studies.
For example, he often spoke of demensions, and time domains. That is actually related to physics. Its real. But he did not use precise vernacular accepted by physicist. That’s confusing and leaves me unclear what he believed.
I liked him. But again, am unclear. I suspect he was led astray later in life. He made statements I find alarming, and he associated with Kim Clement. The singing prophet guy. He reffered to the concept of a ten dimension Universe. This is a problem.
Jesus said he would spit out the lukewarm. Pastor Chuck Missler always believed in taking God’s word literally. As far as him moving to another country, so what! I’d leave this one too if I could get out. I was born in the United States of America and I feel like I will die and communist China without even moving geographically. I don’t want to be here when the stock market crashes and I’m faced with dying for lack of medication and starvation and even being homeless. Chuck Missler was a great man and I believe he supported many of his beliefs with strong evidence. And I can care less if he quoted anybody else and forgetting to mention their name. That’s where it should be shared freely! Nobody owns what God gives to their mind unless God specifically States unto you only!
JESUS said HE would spit out the lukewarm. Pastor Chuck Missler always believed in taking God’s word literally. As far as him moving to another country, so what ! I’d leave this one too if I could get out. I was born in the United States of America and I feel like I will die in communist China without even moving geographically. I don’t want to be here when the stock market crashes and I’m faced with dying for lack of medication and starvation and even being homeless. Chuck Missler was a great man of GOD and he supported many of his beliefs with strong evidence. I can care less if he quoted anybody else and forgot to mention their name. GODS word should be shared freely! Nobody owns what GOD gives to their mind unless GOD specifically states ,”unto you only”.
You folks so freely bash a saint of God and yet I’ve never heard about you ! it’s not a good time to have satan as your bed partner. Grab JESUS while you can.
When I heard chuck for the very first time on his bible radio program, I was like a kindergartner trying to learn physics. Brilliant man from the perspective of teaching and most certainly gifted of god.
It’s funny how cowards like Michael go silent when pressed to provide specific details about his vague criticisms. Not a peep after Bill’s post. RIP Chuck! I love your teachings, and look forward to meeting you in heaven.
Danny,
This thread is more than three years old. Once a thread gets more than a week or two old, individual comments will come in randomly here and there and can very easily be missed due to their singular nature (as opposed to current and active threads that get commented on multiple times a day, if not even multiple times within minutes). It’s also possible the comment was observed at some point well after it was made, at which point it probably would be inconsequential to respond as this Bill is likely not a regular reader and would never even see the response.
On top of that, Michael just very recently had open heart surgery. The last thing he needs to do now is to get into some pissing match with someone who wants to come along and call him a coward over dubious circumstances. Nor will I as to not prolong such a thing in our community here. This will be my only comment.
Kevin, he kept replying with his hate filled replies to anyone who defended Chuck for over 2 years. He only stopped when someone asked him to explain his unfounded accusations. It is one thing to disagree with someone. But Michael and his few buddies were slandering Chuck with lies and making fun of him.
Danny,
Google is your friend.
Lots of ink has been spilled over Misslers aberrant theology and other issues.
I am many things…a coward isn’t one of them.
If that’s the level of theological discussion you’re capable of, then the worth of your teachers speaks for itself.
Move on.
Thanks, KevinH!
Are you even Christian? Because you just seem like a bully to me. I don’t need to Google search. Ive listened to him plenty. He has reached millions. You have a wordpress blog. Your community is toxic, and you talk tough, but give no proof of your accusations….because you can’t. Shame on you.
Danny,
We ‘re glad you stopped by…and we’re more glad you’re leaving.
Here’s some material to read on your way out…
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatches/2013/08/16/missler-caught-plagiarizing/
I still see no proof given of Chuck Missler’s heresy. Proof of plagiarism was given, but I haven’t researched that source & claim yet. Please provide proof of Missler teaching false doctrine & or being a heretic. It’s so easy in our culture for those who have come from higher education or who have applied themselves to study hard to show themselves approved, to fall into a pride & copy the world in the way they take on a sophisticated, witty, & very prideful demeanor while attacking others. Why is this the case because even redeemed people may will to do right, but the doing of what is right is only accomplished by the power of the Holy Spirit & we all in the human race are so prideful!
I witnessed this exact scenario play out in a church members meeting decades ago, where some of the congregation were trying to oust a pastor with public speeches before the church voted. Bottom line, no one had any proof of false teaching. I’ve barely heard the teachings of Chuck Missler, but I know the teachings of Calvary Chapel are Biblically accurate. I came across this thread because I was researching whether or not Chuck Missler accurately divides the Word of God & uses correct hermeneutics. All that matters is facts, so if you have proof, please provide it because false teachers should be exposed. This thread has been convoluted from the beginning with comments about the Calvary Chapel split & not being allowed to question pastors or those in leadership in the Calvary Chapel churches. I never attended a Calvary Chapel in Southern CA, but putting people on pedestals & hierarchy was a problem in the Calvary Chapel Church I attended in WA State, an independent Pentecostal Church I attended 30 years ago, & I can say is probably a problem in almost every church across America & beyond because that’s human nature. It doesn’t make it right, it’s extremely detrimental to the growth of all believers, & completely opposite of how Jesus intended for the church to operate! However, that’s a total different subject. One person has come out & said they questioned Chuck M about a teaching they couldn’t confirm in their Strong’s Concordance, but it sounded like they emailed & never followed up w/ Chuck M beyond the one email attempt. This does not warrant accusing another believer of false teaching. This thread has been so grievous & I’m sure to our Heavenly Father as well! Someone, anyone, if this false teaching occurred, please speak out with the facts of Chuck Missler’s false teaching & or heresy.
Thank you Sir Chick Missler.
God would definitely say, “Well done thou good and faithful servant.”
It would seem that some people find fault with Chuck Missler and his teachings. I personally found him to be captivating and very insightful. His teachings are in line with the Bible and current events. Nothing could be more important for Christians than biblical teachings that are in line with the problems we face in current times. I think Chuck Missler did as good of a job bringing the gospel to the people as any Pastor I’ve known, and better than most. Of course this is just my opinion.
I fully intend to enrich my Bible learning with as much as I can from the belated Chuck Missler Youtube posts and others that are similar in teachings. My one regret is not getting the chance to meet and shake his hand.
May you Rest in Peace Chuck Missler.