Eclipse and Apocalypse
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised…now the upcoming solar eclipse is a sign of God’s coming judgment on America.
Of course it is…one of Billy Graham’s kids says so.
There is something incongruent about people that wrap themselves and their religion in the flag and carry on as if America is the new Israel always declaring judgment on the country they idolize at the same time.
We’re the hope of righteousness in the world, but God’s ready to nuke us.
We’re God’s new chosen people that He’s about to destroy.
You betcha…
The only people that scare me more than these doomsayers are the people that believe them…
I’m pretty sure that God’s judgement is already upon us.
This story was, not surprisingly, carried on The Christian Post. Non on Charisma News. Yet. Anyways. Pure. Garbage.
Josh,
Explain this to me…who is “us” and for what reason is “judgment” upon us?
God’s judgment is not on me, nor do I believe for a second that it is on you…
Dan,
I’m bone weary of the angry god ready to fry creation…I need to hear of the God who so loved the world…
Why are all these so-called “prophets” and spokesmen/women for Gawd* so hung up on fire and brimstone-type judgements? Makes me wonder whether they interpret Revelation in light of the Left Behind books. Don’t they realize that, in OT times, there was a heavy price to pay for false prophecies? Yes, I too find these people more scary than the judgements they proclaim.
* “Gawd” used instead of the Lord’s proper name because I refuse to connect his name to this garbage….something about taking our Lord’s name in vain….
“judgement” in a general sense, not a hellfire and brimstone sense.
Yes, I think the American church is facing judgement. That our leaders are rich and abusive rather than imitators of Christ is all the proof you should need.
I think the United States is facing judgement. We’ve elected a buffoon who is threatening to blow up the world as we speak. He’s not the first awful sin our country has committed.
It is like we have created our own beautiful Hell.
well, since the solar system’s track was set in place long, long ago (i don’t know how long ago), i must conclude that our God saw history before it began to unfold…
and, if we want to call our nation a client nation of the most high God, i must agree with Josh the B
how it will unfold i don’t know, but anyone who isn’t praying that NOKO will settle down before they cause a terrible disaster doesn’t realize the potential looming before our eyes…
turn the clock back 60 years and everyone thought of the bad guys of the world as simply brush fires to be put out… and Dow Chemical Co. promised us a future of even “better living through chemistry”… the world cycles, but each cycle of evil seems to get broader reaching – dunno… one of these cycles will be the last one and that’s a good thing, but don’t count on the signs before us now being the end… could be, tho 🙂
just sayin … again
What’s also troubling, Michael, is that the people who peddle this crap will point to ANYTHING bad within the next FEW YEARS that happens in ‘Murica as proof that they were right.
Josh,
One of the great things about being on painkillers is that you just don’t care.
Unfortunately, my head is clear now and this is what I woke up to… 🙂
You might be right…although there is still a remnant and not all of us voted for Trump.
I confess that the saber rattling has me a tad worried…
Why are we looking to God’s judgment of anyone? America of individual people? I thought we live in the time of God saving people. I look to those signs showing that God has saved another one – like the sign of the baptismal font.
Dan @ 8… this garbage sells and it seems to the people who are most likely to give.
That’s why it keeps getting produced…
Do you guys see the American church living out Christ’s abundant life right now?
“I thought we live in the time of God saving people.”
Nobody wants to read that article…
“Do you guys see the American church living out Christ’s abundant life right now?”
I wouldn’t expect to…the kingdom is here, but not in it’s fullness.
#4- both sides of the coin do acknowledge a holy and a righteous God… and i guess sometimes it does take a glimpse of hell to wake us up… but the henny penny approach simple dilutes the message to where everyone says amen to Dan’s thots @ #5
praying that there are lots of MLD’s #10 signs… lots of angels singing in heaven still
This has nothing to do with prophesy, but (and I don’t know if this is Josh’s point too) the Church has a sanctifying impact on society. When the Church is faithful, pagans around her benefit, when the Church is unfaithful, not only Christians, but the pagans around her suffer.
Much of the Church in America is in rebellion against God, and the consequences of this rebellion will be felt by the entire country.
Remember when US was fighting Japan and Germany at the same time? Now THAT looked like “end times”.
NK is all bark and no bite. I don’t recall Japan signalling their intentions to bomb Pearl Harbor like NK has Guam.
Let’s pray for a peaceful resolution.
Anne is always good for Lotz of twaddle. Stay tuned. She’s not done. Ever. She provides another nail in the Christian credibility coffin. She does no service at all to the preaching of the Gospel or to those of us who are on the ground trying to minister in the face of similar streams of slobber.
Let me clarify.
I agree with Mrs. Lotz that we are facing judgement.
However, I think she is like the first century Jews who were awaiting Messiah. They were so fixed on what they thought it would be, that they didn’t recognize Him when he showed up. Mrs. Lotz and Christians of her stripe are so fixed on their idea of judgement, that they don’t see that it is upon them…and to some degree like the ancient Babylonians, they are the tool that God is using to carry out this judgement.
They don’t find it odd that the Son of Man had no place to lay His head, yet they live in gated mansions and vote to keep the most vulnerable people in the world out of their comfort zone.
Oh, judgement is here. The remnant has no danger of Hell fire, but we will continue to suffer in this exile.
True JoelG (17). Blessed are the peacemakers.
Jean at 16 is right on.
And the Wake of the Shmitah keeps getting longer and longer as the DOW goes higher and higher. 60 mil dead babies – it does not take a genius to figure Gods judgement is upon us. Now but not yet.
Josh,
Good stuff this morning…thank you for being bold.
Descended,
Please don’t tell me that you buy into the Jonathan Cahn bullspit…
Josh,
I got that “twice a day” thing going. Now I’m down to one. 🙂
Josh (19)…good points!
Uh oh, and there was a blood moon just a couple nights ago. Now the total solar eclipse. We’re doomed!
(The blood moon occurred in Europe. That must be their part of the judgment!)
Kevin, it’s all about ‘Murica and which party occupies the White House!
“Much of the Church in America is in rebellion against God, and the consequences of this rebellion will be felt by the entire country.”
Is there a list of these churches that we know are actually ‘in rebellion against God?” I may tease a bunch about evangelicals and their awkward ways – but I would never think that any of them are actually “in rebellion against God” — even John Hagee’s church.
29 – ECLA?
I could mention quite of few, including the ELCA, but I won’t.
Oh yeah, I just think MLD has called them apostates on more than one occasion. Seemed like the obvious answer.
Well we need to know so we can contact them.
I would say that the pagan culture is actually thriving because of the ELCA
But the idea that the US is under God’s judgment is totally 100% unbiblical and may even be a pagan concept in itself. So to get out from under God’s judgment do we throw another virgin in the volcano?
“So to get out from under God’s judgment do we throw another virgin in the volcano?”
Either that or repent, I guess.
There is a difference between being apostate because you are given wrong leadership and / or poor teaching and you have let society / culture enter too far vs being in actual open rebellion against God.
Josh, from the other thread – I guess I know what your other sermon topics are instead of Christ for You! – the impending judgment on the USA. 😉
I’m not preaching a sermon. I’m commenting on a blog.
But if you believed the US and the churches were actually under God’s judgment, wouldn’t you preach it?
But I choose to look at today as the day of God’s blessing.
After 4 months and $60,000 later after my house flooded – the repairs are complete – yesterday they cleaned the house literally from top to bottom and today they brought back my stuff, the furniture, kitchen etc and my books!!!!
But then, perhaps the epic flood I had from the toilet line was my judgment 😉
According to you, no matter what else ever happens, I only get one sermon consisting of three words.
You may be right MLD. Maybe there is no noticeable consequence of completely disobeying God at every turn. MAybe.
Josh, perhaps not with you, but many churches would be better off if they followed the liturgy and the sermon consisted only of “Christ for You!!! 😉
“You may be right MLD. Maybe there is no noticeable consequence of completely disobeying God at every turn. MAybe.”
No, it’s called the day of the lord – judgment day.
But no temporal effects for disobeying God, right?
“But no temporal effects for disobeying God, right?”
I really must admit that I do not know – but it seems that would negate those psalms that ask “why the wicked prosper?”
Murder someone. No temporal effects.
Commit adultery…come on. You just argue for fun.
“Murder someone. No temporal effects.”
Not if I don’t get caught. The fact that you can see God only as the one who chases us to punish us for each sin, catches me completely by surprise.
Are you saying as a Christian if I cheat a little on my taxes that I will come down with boils? This has become weird – but I guess that is why the common evangelical sermon is not about Jesus but as in the example I showed yesterday it is about “cleaning our house” in a 4 part sermon series.
As I watch the wicked prosper and many righteous suffer, I have to think that judgment is reserved for the Day of the Lord. There are temporal effects from the legal system, but even it falls short of justice too often.
“Not if I don’t get caught.”
Completely disagree.
@ 48 – Disagree. If you murder someone, you will feel the effects, one way or the other.
God has condemned murder, so that is his judgement.
Every sin I commit, every sin I inject into the world system, has a negative effect not only on me but on the entire world. I am small so my impact might be small, but I have harmed myself.
There’s a story, more of a parable, of the man who was treated unfairly at work and came home and kicked his dog and yelled at his kids. As a result of this, a little girl down the street spilled the gravy on her mother’s white table cloth….
Josh,
I don’t think reason or experience support your point.
If God is enacting His version of justice presently, then I would be compelled to be an unbeliever.
It would also make affliction the sign of judgment which would indicate that I am a very wicked man…and some men I deem wicked as very righteous in the eyes of God.
I agree with Xenia.
Or, we should just teach people to steal, cheat and kill, but not get caught.
What we shouldn’t teach people is that life is fair or just…but we should teach that there will be a Day when God sets things right.
I never said life is fair, but you certainly reap what you sow.
Our country and our churches have sown in a particular direction for quite a while. It’d be foolish to not expect some negative effects.
When do you do this reaping? If this is the case explain why decent people are afflicted and religious scoundrels are living in luxury.
I don’t think you fully understand the implications of this doctrine.
Josh, are you saying that the Christian will lose his salvation in judgment if he sins? Little sins or just the biggies you mentioned – murder / adultery.
So you just got done participating in adultery and on your way home on your 10 speed with lustful thoughts still on your mind and no thought of repentance yet and you are run over by a beer truck – lost salvation?
“Josh, are you saying that the Christian will lose his salvation in judgment if he sins? ”
Nope. See the last sentence of my #19.
The question would seem to be, what is the relation, if any, of the negative consequences we suffer due to our sins with the judgment of God?
@60 – If God is in control, if He is sovereign, then it is 100% related.
I believe that the more sinful we are as individual people, the more sin is accumulated in the system and as a result, there will be wars and other tragedies.
As Christians, our sins can be completely forgiven but that doesn’t negate the consequences and the effect our accumulated sins have on our families, out neighborhoods, and our country.
So I wouldn’t say God is judging America for our sins. (What kind of judgment is this, anyway? We are fat and rich.) I would say that our sins naturally result in bad outcomes.
Everyone watches TV shows and movies and read novels where all the characters are fornicators. (This is a sin, by the way.) The result? Fornication resulting in abortion is rampant. It’s a natural consequence, not a specific judgment from God.
“our sins naturally result in bad outcomes.”
That is judgement.
So we have abortion because as a nation, most of us enjoy immorality, even if it’s the vicarious immorality of TV and movies.
Josh,
I take it then that you would agree with my critics who like to tell me that my afflictions are the result of my sins against CC . I get these heartwarming messages on a regular basis. God help us if we apply this doctrine to the martyrs of the church…I guess they deserved it.
Xenia,
There is a difference between having your life screwed up because of your bad acts – such as a husband leaving his family and they live in poverty and experience all the bad things that come with that.
On the other hand, we had started talking about the USA and the American church currently being under God’s judgment. I think these are 2 different things.
Josh, it is a consequence which God allows. I am not ready to say He is up in heaven decreeing judgment on an individual country. But maybe.
I’ll believe America is under judgment when God takes away painkillers and antibiotics…and maybe flush toilets.
Well MLD, I don’t know what the phrase “the American church” even means.
I would rather say that a lot of Americans who call themselves Christians are not remotely interested in holiness and that God will allow places where the worst of them congregate to fall into wrack and ruin under the weight of their sins. Josh might call this judgment. I might too, but I am more inclined to see it as natural consequences. But I am leaning more towards Josh’s view. God will not be mocked.
Michael, I think a lot of third world nations wish they were under the same kind of judgment we have here in America.
But judgment is not all based on material things.
“Josh,
I take it then that you would agree with my critics who like to tell me that my afflictions are the result of my sins against CC .”
I don’t know of any sins that you have committed against CC.
I do know that you smoked for a long time, and you are probably paying a price for that to some degree.
I think this doctrine is called divine earthly retribution …and it’s been used to drive more of Gods people to despair than almost any other.
I’ll stick with Christ for us, not God against us.
Often in Orthodoxy we will say things like “Because of my sins I have a migraine.”
Did the beatitudes say blessed are those who have good technology?!?
#51 – i hope Xenia is wrong on this one as it makes me tired just to think on it… not saying that by definition sin isn’t destructive… it is…
but there is such a thing as “chain sinning” that we do ourselves as we sin to cover up our sins… that downhill slide is addressed by KevinH’s post today…
i like the phrase, “keep short accounts with God” … confession really is a good beginning … and, hopefully, ending
Jean’s #16 makes sense to me… doesn’t it seem that a good number of Christian endeavors (churches) are descending into a form of what Jesus saw in the practice of Judaism on His first trip here?
Christ is for us, certainly. He has forgiven our sins and has given us life. He strengthens us to complete the journey. He has given us Communion and other things as food for the road. He is altogether for us.
He has not revoked the laws of cause and effect, however.
“He has not revoked the laws of cause and effect, however.”
Exactly.
Just for clarification, I said:
“When the Church is faithful, pagans around her benefit, when the Church is unfaithful, not only Christians, but the pagans around her suffer.
Much of the Church in America is in rebellion against God, and the consequences of this rebellion will be felt by the entire country.”
Sin has consequences, both temporal and, if not forgiven, eternal. Conversely, good works, the fruit of faith, have tangible benefits for our neighbors.
I would encourage everyone to re-read Psalm 90, which is very relevant to this discussion.
Josh,
I have a bad heart valve and an aneurysm.
My back and hips are degenerating with age and arthritis.
I have gall and kidney stones.
None of the above are smoking related.
I have family members that struggle with mental illness…are they under judgment too?
In the meantime those who we have called out in their corruption prosper…must be a sign of divine blessing.
Do you check for sin first when you do hospital calls?
There will be a day when God sets things right.
It’s not today.
We live in a fallen world that God is giving every chance to repent…before judgment falls.
Jean@ 78 – Right again.
THat was your second time today. Might want to quit while you are ahead.
I simply say that the effects of cause and effect have been delayed to the Day if the Lord.
Both blessings and curses…
Michael, I struggle with mental illness. I do not think that is God’s judgement on me.
I think you’ve twisted around my meaning, or maybe I’ve been unclear.
The people who seem to prosper, yet get away with all sorts of evil acts: Those who follow them will be hurt. They have chosen their own judgement. The leaders are hurting their families, their followers, and themselves. This is also judgement.
The fact that they drive a nice car doesn’t come into play one bit. They are choosing the wide path rather than the narrow and it will affect them and all around them for the worse at some point.
You are too interested in what you see with your eyes. Josh drives a KIa, must be under judgement. Mega Preacher drives a BMW, must be blessed. Jesus didn’t define blessing and curse in that way.
I have to back away from this…some of the most godly people I know are in tremendous trials. They worry terribly that they have offered God and He is angry with them. That brings horrible spiritual and emotional suffering on top of their temporal afflictions.
I refuse to participate in such.
Well said, Jean.
“some of the most godly people I know are in tremendous trials. ”
Just to be clear, I haven’t talked about freedom from trials as blessing, or presence of trials as a curse. That’s how you are reading it, but has not been my intention.
Michael,
“I have to back away from this…some of the most godly people I know are in tremendous trials.”
I think we are thinking in human terms. Have you ever considered that those godly people you know have been blessed with godliness through the trials they suffer. Afflictions drive the Christian to Christ, by whom we cry Abba! Father. There’s a reason it’s a cry.
I’m not saying we should pray for affliction, nor attempt to bring it on ourselves, but God uses it for the good of we who love him.
Jean, that’s 3. Chill out, bro.
I don’t know if I would be a Christian today, if not for being humbled by God through affliction.
You folks continue on.
I know when I’m about to lose my cookies and sin.
Lord knows I don’t need any more judgment from on high…
I’m sorry Michael. I’m not always clear with my speech. I also apologize for my # 71. in hindsight, it appears that I was taking a shot at you for smoking. I was just trying to talk about something that you had talked about on the blog before, not go after you for some private struggle. I shouldn’t have said it.
I don’t think the eclipse is significant, though. Actually, eclipses indicate that the solar system is still working properly.
Has anyone here ever suffered a total eclipse of the heart?
Josh,
No problem.
I took no offense.
The eclipse is apocalyptic for native Oregonians like me who think a million visitors in our state is the equivalent of hell.
Jean,
I think Bonnie Tyler may have….
Turn around bright eyes….
Michael maybe they will decide to stay when they see how beautiful it is. 😉
Just checking back in. Interesting discussion today. Glad I’m done ranting. Michael, us native Minnesotans are the same – which is why winters in MN are cold and brutal – keeps the riff raff out.
I just wish some would read Gods beauty and wonder in the eclipse instead of always finding the dark cloud behind every silver lining.
Joel,
That would be the judgment of God on us…
Lol!
Amen Dan
Thank you Joel for #95. It had to be said.
This is so funny. Living a good, godly, charitable life leads to death – is this under a curse of sowing and reaping.
The conversation was about being under God’s judgment today because of our sin – politically, theologically or individually. This is hogwash, unbiblical nonsense.
You can’t just push it back to sowing and reaping.
I don’t know if it was said on this thread, but I’m of the understanding that God doesn’t judge or punish His kids, but He will discipline them.
Hebrews 12:3-11
3 Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. 4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons?
“My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
nor be weary when reproved by him.
6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and chastises every son whom he receives.”
7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. 11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
Welcome to Oregon!
Enjoy the eclipse.
But please don’t stay.
Yours truly,
Former Govenor, Tom McCall
The old Adam is part of the old creation which God judged at Calvary. We are new creatures in Christ through the new birth. The old Adam is under judgment in the old age which is passing away. Look in the mirror.
The new creature is hidden with Christ in God, a part of new creation.
OK, now I am confused (not uncommon)
So if my old Adam has already been judged at the cross (past, not to be judged again) and if my new man faces no condemnation because he is ‘in Christ’ – what is all of this talk about judgment on the American church?
I could have left my thoughts at 19. Everything since then has been a sidetrack for me.
Michael
LOL! NO, he wrote anther book called the Wake of the Shmitah since I guess things didn’t pan out.
MLD,
“OK, now I am confused (not uncommon)” Agree.
“So if my old Adam has already been judged at the cross (past, not to be judged again)” It was forensic. The sentence is being carried out on the old Adam in all of us. In fact, if you are baptized, the death sentence was also forensically applied to you in baptism, along with the birth of a new man in Christ.
“and if my new man faces no condemnation because he is ‘in Christ’ – what is all of this talk about judgment on the American church?” I can’t speak to that one, because I never said that.
I don’t want to argue about it, but each Christian, on the basis of Scripture, needs to decide for himself/herself whether God is a watch-maker God or whether He is immanent, provident and sovereign. “Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?”
Jean, the point was to everyone – I was using your statements as a jumping off point.
““and if my new man faces no condemnation because he is ‘in Christ’ – no, Paul said it.
I find there is no evidence that Jesus is judging his church today for sin. Jesus is building his church today and the gates of hell will not prevail, hinder or slow that growth.Jesus’ full time job is pretty much still saving people. I actually prefer to think of baptism more of a exorcism than a forensic act.
It is finished, means “it is finished’ in the original English. 🙂
I guess I need to look at those “clean up your act” sermons a little more closely – there may be something to them.
Michael, your afflictions are not because of sin against cc. It is a part of life. You have lived a hard life and it is taking a toll on you. It is not because of some son. You are a good man a holy man of God. Don’t let anyone make you think otherwise!
I’m very late but what the hay? 🙂 It’s absolutely no surprise to me someone would link the eclipse to something a bit strange. It’s no surprise it was an evangelical who did so and was called out for it here. It seems to srve as click bait based on the number of comments.
It’s not worth arguing over and having folks get upset. Life’s too short.
I’m surrounded with people struggling with afflictions of every sort. They have to deal with what’s right in front of them instead of getting into arguments that settle nothing and if anything just exacerbate things.
I’m going to have some sardines.
Ok, now I’m mad.
“Click bait” is a term used by sites that get paid by the numbers of clicks.
I don’t make a freaking dime more or less if this article gets 20 views or a million.
We don’t run on clicks here.
If you don’t like what I do then don’t read the blog…but don’t accuse me of something false.
Period.
If anyone should be accused of click bait it should be Anne Lotz and the rest of the evangelical prophecy wonks. I’d say she’s a little more high profile than I am…
I think that Dusty’s #111 is an accurate conclusion… the longer I live, the less I think well of.the prosperous, fat and smug pretenders among us
that said, I should add that an easy prosperous life is not always bad, many good hard working folk do prosper… but we do have that caution regarding the camel and the needle – and here I am worrying about my leather easy chair and ottoman in storage for four years more than I am about the END… wonder how i’d look as a pillar of salt
Michael, What I meant is this article was going to get a lot of responses based on the topic. Had absolutely nothing to do with money. Sorry for upsetting you.
I post articles for discussion purposes. I thought it needed addressed so I did.
I will continue to do so.
Hopefully I’ll be reading your rebuke of Lotz on her site…but I doubt it.
Guess we can’t short hand with certain words that carry bad connotations without implying an unintended meaning that the do words carry, but I noticed all the attention this thread got today… some interesting back and forth…
My daughter is a great writer with a big Facebook following and all that talent out out there for free? We live in strange times, but…
I thank God every day for what Michael produces here
Sorry for my scattered this and typos… just in from chasing a dog chasing a deer…
and it was not my doggie even, but I am the one who dropped the leash
Thanks, Em.
This is a good thread addressing important things.
I’ve always had critics…Erunner was one of the first and he’s entitled to his place.
I will keep doing what I do.
I don’t visit her site Michael. My post was more than the click bait comment I could have worded better. Sorry you’ve taken such offense.
Give Erunner a break – he’s my Dodger buddy — Go Blue!
Jesus bore the sin of the whole world, maybe what we experience is to help us to identify with that. God is not a happy pill, but it seems you all already know that. May he have mercy on us every moment of our lives. 🙂
The wrath of abandonment
https://youtu.be/Cz8AA_Oa0EU
Okay, just tried to read the article Michael linked.
Oh, Anne… that is fear mongering nonsense. You simultaneously insinuate judgement may not be upon us yet is upon us because Rabbis seem to say so. Judgement will fall on this nation and the rest of the unbelieving world. You need nothing else than patience, if that’s all your waiting for.
Wake Of the Shemitah
Okay, not a book – a segment on Jim Bakker”s show, which says a lot.
I find it interesting that many try to predict the last day at all. Even if they are correct, what makes them think that the now “Ended World” will have any concept of the fact that the old one just ended and those who predicted it deserve credit for foretelling it? What is to gain by correctly predicting the end?
That’s an interesting question, Paul L.
Hmmm… if I warn you that the world is ending, what can you (or I ) possibly do about it? Hide under a rock? ?
I.guess that those of us who anticipate a tribulation period can stock up on water and dried food and figure out how to hide it from the unwashed…
On a more immediate concern – praying for a soon and good report on Michael’s health tonight – Lord have mercy. – as some here phrase it – have mercy indeed, Lord
Thanks, Em.
The last two days have been ok,but it’s back with a vengeance this morning.
Hopefully, I’ll get a date set today…
With Nashville in the direct path of totality, surely this must indicate judgment on country music. lol