Election Day

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353 Responses

  1. Xenia says:

    May God’s will be done and may we accept His will with good grace and charity.

    Whatever it turns out to be, I believe the word of the day is REPENTANCE.

    That’s personal repentance, that is, looking into our own hearts and our own ways of living and striving for personal holiness as we live our lives in Christ.

    Our own sins, not those of others.

    What will we be talking about tomorrow, I wonder….


  2. Xenia says:

    Meaning, not a vague ambiguous “the church needs to repent” but rather *I* need to repent.

  3. Dan from Georgia says:

    Well put Xenia

  4. josh hamrick says:

    Good word Xenia.

  5. Xenia says:

    AND I would like to apologize to those here that I have spoken harshly with over the last few weeks, especially Josh who I completely read wrongly (you know the post I am talking about.)

  6. Xenia says:

    I have had unhappy thoughts about some of you. I am going to erase that chalkboard and start out with a clean slate. I know you are all Christians who love the Lord and are following Him as He has directed you.

  7. josh hamrick says:

    Xenia, you are a light in this dark world.

  8. bob1 says:

    I like this post:

    a mob of centrists just went down my street,

    and let me tell you they were hell bent on inciting a reasonable discussion. Their protest signs had footnotes. Pages from Kant’s “Critique of Pure Reason” were left on car windshields. Instead of stealing my Biden/Harris yard sign, they studied both sides of it, to make an informed decision. Rather than forming a blockade to traffic, they created a lane in the middle of the road, and admonished drivers to neither turn left nor turn right. At the end of the block, the centrists intermingled with a group of moderates, at a safe distance, and it quickly erupted into intelligent discourse over which group was more balanced. The cops did NOTHING. I want to write a sternly worded letter, but I’m undecided.

  9. bob1 says:

    I do love Election Day. I really do. Seeing folks of every stripe out. It’s really festive, at least where I live.

    I really miss being able to vote in person. Hopefully in four years!

  10. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    My view of Election Day – every day is election day for a Lutheran.

  11. Open24Hours says:

    I pray that all anti-democratic forces are converted by democracy. I pray that all polarized extremes are overwhelmed by reason. I pray for one nation that is tired of the splintering. I pray for peace to silence the rudeness. I pray for the return of the pre-statist church. I pray for seemingly impossible things.

  12. Bride of Christ says:

    Each one of these posts blessed and calmed my heart today. Thank you.

  13. Em says:

    I will apologize to all when Biden is elected and neither he nor Kamala turn us into raging socialism …… or worse

    I remember being a child.. all during WW2 i heard the song “Anchors Aweigh” and wondered why the Navy sang about throwing their anchors away… so here in my second childhood, i could be wrong…. ?

  14. Best wishes for everybody. Stay safe.

  15. No major changes will happen if Biden wins. What comes after either Biden or trump is the big unknown, as boomer candidates go into the night, gently or otherwise.

  16. Mike E. says:

    The Father God is upon his Throne. And His Messiah is seated at his right Hand, praying for us. His Spirit is at work in the Church. We don’t have to wait for anyone to tell us anything. He is our Savior. It is finished. Much love to all, especially to those I disagree with.

  17. CM says:


    The election of 2020 is likely the last hurrah for Boomers in national politics and power. Certainly 2024 it will be the case. After that, it is the Gen-Xers shot at the brass ring.

    Ironically Trumpism with all this trade and nativist policies are relics of the aging Boomers. Once all those blue collar / union Boomer types die off in the next 10 years, Trumpism will go on the ash heap of history. Trump wanted capture the myopic and naive nostalgia of the 1950s to 1970s as viewed through popular culture. But it is something that will never come back, if it ever was truly accurate to begin with.

  18. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    CM – and Biden is even too old to be classified as a Boomer – go figure.

    I mentioned this before, as Boomers in our 70s, we gave my wife’s vote for Prez to our kids and my vote to the 3 high school grandkids – it’s their world.

  19. Dread says:

    It could finish 270-268 Biden – Trump’s ego and bitter spirited hitting back would be one central factor. His excoriation of McCain rising to smite him. Sowing and reaping …

  20. CM says:


    Per the demographic researchers the Boomers are born from 1946 to about 1960 or so. Biden was born in 1942, so yes you are correct. The oldest Boomers hit 75 shortly with most of them hitting 70. So yes, in about 10 years most of the will be gone.

  21. Xenia says:

    My thoughts:

    While I voted for Trump, I would prefer he either won by a significant margin or Biden won by a significant margin. This never-never land in the middle is the worst possible outcome because no one will believe the winner won and there will be unsettledness in the land.

    If Trump loses, and I think he will, this is going to bring out the least attractive aspects of his personality. We are going to hear “I only lost because they cheated” for the rest of his life. It’s the cry of the spoiled brat. May God prevent him from doing anything… crazy. Crazier. You know what I mean.

    And if Trump loses, his ardent supporters are going to go bananas with conspiracy theories as to how the election was stolen. Maybe there were shenanigans, I don’t know but I do know that I am not going to waste my few remaining brain cells thinking or worrying about it.

    If Biden wins, and I think he will, I hope that his first act is to fix the “kids in cages” tragedy. After that, I don’t see him doing many things that I would like, but I will certainly be praying that he lives a long life- at least four more years- because Ms. Harris is not someone I have charitable thoughts concerning.

    So this is God’s decree upon America: more confusion for a confused populace. May you and I learn whatever lesson it is that God is trying to teach you and me. (“you and me,” as in individuals, not “we and us” as in some ambiguous “church.”)

    So for me and my friends, I plan to live out my life in Christ with as much integrity as God allows me to have. I have identified my fellow traditionalists and am hanging out with them online, live, a few nights each week. These people, plus my own parish, are a source of strength and encouragement.

    So, fear not, little flock.


  22. josh hamrick says:

    Good words Xenia!

  23. pstrmike says:

    I recall the 2008 election when I knew many conspiracy theorists who were convinced that we Christians were going to end up in FEMA camps and all the other associated hysteria. We survived eight years of Obama, and we have (so far) survived almost four years of Trump. The real question is whether we have passed a point of no return, which people like Dreher believe to be the case.

    The polarization that Xenia describes is both problematic and perhaps a check and balance that keeps the scales of public opinion somewhat level. Time will tell. I think I’m too old to start over in another country, so I am stuck in a place where everyone will continue to talk and very few are willing to listen. I think the two presidential debates said it all. Both candidates acted like children, looked for opportunities to mock each other, and we are going to put one of them in the white house?

  24. Dread says:



    I first noticed that our nation was walking in confusion when the weapons of mass destruction were not found that would vindicate our horrific destabilization of the world and the Middle East.

    Our confusion magnified under Obama and spread into race relations, marriage and gender. Madness came under Trump who skews all things. It is his policies I support not his personage.

    It is confusion that has led me to believe judgement is on us. But I still believe that even with the finished work of Jesus that the judgment of God works out in history.

    So his kingdom comes and all other kingdoms collapse.

    Not Long For This World Dread

  25. Jean says:

    Enforcing law and order and submitting to law and order are two different things.

  26. Duane Arnold says:


    “…I think I’m too old to start over in another country..”

    Croatia is the only country that will let us in… but I understand it is lovely. 😁

  27. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    strike, I went through this when Trump won, except my liberal Jewish community had Trump rounding up Jews for the camps.
    My brother was lobbying me to get one of those quick passes into Canada so when Trump found out I was really Jewish (a circumcision inspection perhaps) so I could escape to his Canada compound.

  28. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    strike = pstrmike

  29. Xenia says:

    I love America, no matter who is running the earthly show. I’m happy to stay here where God planted me and my family. We’ve been here 300 years and I don’t intend to abandon ship now.

  30. Dan from Georgia says:

    pstmike et al..had a guy leading a Bible study back in 2000 say that he believed Gore was going to win because “he’s going to start persecuting Christians”.

  31. Bride of Christ says:

    I woke up this morning and I read the LA Times. I read all of the articles and editorials on the election and felt even more stressed than I did last night. Every artucle was about how divided and polarized we are as a nation. Then I read these comments here, and I feel a sense of calm. God is in control. I especially liked Dread’s closing statement ” So His Kingdom comes and all others collapse.” I am going to write that down and display it where I can see it to help me get through the next few days and weeks.

  32. pstrmike says:

    thanks Duane!

  33. Duane Arnold says:


    Anytime! 😁😂😁

  34. pstrmike says:

    you might like Canada compared to where you live now, at least in the summer 😉 but then again, there is a reason why most Canadians live with 200 kilometers of the U. S. border……

  35. Dan from Georgia says:

    Only parts of Canada I’ve been to are the north shoreline of Lake Superior from Grand Portage, MN and Thunder Bay, Ontario east of Marathon, Ontario….very beautiful but very rugged. Being a meteorologist I am somewhat familiar with the climate of various parts of the world…I can see why most Canadians live in the southern portion of the nation~!

  36. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    pstrmike, Nov – April many from Canada flee to our shores here in Lake Havasu.

    Many rainbirds from Washington join them 🙂

  37. Dan from Georgia says:

    Many snowbirds evacuate Minnesota in the winter also and head to SOUTHERN Florida, SOUTHERN Texas, and SOUTHERN Arizona…i.e. as far away from Minnesota as they can get!

  38. Muff Potter says:

    Should the President lose the election when all the counting’s done, it is my fervent hope that he will not lash out with pure vindictiveness and start a war, a war that will spiral out of control an leave vast tracts of the Earth dead-landed for centuries.
    It is also my hope that there are sane men in the senior officer corps. who will refuse his orders to arm and launch.

  39. Em says:

    Something troubles me….
    No matter what your political bent, i don’t think most folk realize how easy it is to mess with a machine tally of votes. Yes i used to write software for accounting applications. The screen will tell you you voted for Joe Blow, but internally it is keeping score and if the count for Joe Blow reaches a certain predetermined number, it is as easy as pie to switch that vote to the tally for Suzie Q
    We – MO – need to rely on supervised hand counts AND verification that you are registered and only vote one time ! !
    Just sayin cuz i can. 😇

  40. Jean says:

    When are kids were very young and one of them got upset about something and started crying, what we did was (1) make sure his diaper was dry, (2) then give him a pacifier, and (3) put him in a crib with a warm blankie.

  41. Eric says:

    Lots of good words here. Either the Spirit is at work among you, or a moderator is. I was going to tell you all how much better my country’s electoral system is, and how it gives better candidates, fewer long queues and more confidence in the process. I’ll save it for another time.

  42. Em says:

    Jean, sounds like your babies were well cared for. 😉

  43. Jim says:

    “It is confusion that has led me to believe judgement is on us. But I still believe that even with the finished work of Jesus that the judgment of God works out in history.”

    I’ve heard similar comments, and yes, I’m confused. Could anyone explain to me why God will judge my neighbors and I because of what a government does? How does this jive for those of you who believe govt’s are ordained by God.

    I feel like a simpleton saying this, but it sounds like God gave us crappy leaders and will now judge us for His decision.

    Did God judge Paul’s generation for the acts of Nero?

    Help me out here.

  44. Em says:

    Crappy leaders? They just may reflect the mindset of the majority…
    Also, and theologians here feel free to correct me, i think God handles humanity on two levels: personal (redemption and all that follows) and national, So?
    So maybe those of us who name the name of Christ haven’t been doing as much as we could have been? Dunno….. 🙆

  45. Jean says:


    I believe that according to the theology of Revelation that God judges mankind through wicked leaders, providing the Christ the opportunity to proclaim the Gospel. The church isn’t the singular object of God’s judgment, but the church suffers in the midst of mankind, as did the OT prophets who suffered along with Israel when she sinned.

  46. Jean says:

    Sorry, not “providing the Christ,” but “providing the Church”…

  47. Jim says:

    I don’t know…

  48. Is it just me or did the pre Boomer presidents seem more “presidential?” As in having a gravitas and demeanor that seemed, at least on the surface, bigger than the man. I’m not including trump in this… he’s out there by himself.

  49. CM says:


    In many ways you were correct. The politicians (especially POTUS) were from the WWII Generation and from a different era in history, culture, etc. They were by and large more statesmanlike, more formal and the like. There are exceptions of course. Bush 43 and Obama to a certain extent had elements of that. Billy Jeff Clinton and Trump did not.

  50. Mike E. says:

    ” So His Kingdom comes and all others collapse.” Yes, brother Dread. Was reading Isaiah 40 last night. This passage brought me comfort and hope:

    “It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in; who brings princes to nothing, and makes the rulers of the earth as emptiness. Scarcely are they planted, scarcely sown, scarcely has their stem taken root in the earth, when he blows on them, and they wither, and the tempest carries them off like stubble.
    Isaiah 40:22-24 -ESV

  51. Jean says:

    During Jr. High and High School I played competitive basketball. Over the course of those 6-7 years, I played in a lot of basketball games; I won a lot, but I also lost a lot.

    One play my coach never taught my team was to ask the referees to call the game over at the end of the 1st half in games where my team held a lead at the end of the first half.

  52. Dan from Georgia says:


    There’s something to be said about being a good sport. In losing and winning.

  53. Em says:

    This was an election in chaos – we old folk probably won’t see another election that is straightforward and honest, nor will our grandchildren… protocols? we don need no stinkin proticols.. But here’s some batches – put one on, it says you voted
    Your turn, Jean…. 😏

  54. Dan from Georgia says:

    One thing a trainer at my job told me was to stop making excuses for things I didn’t do right.

    She was right.

    Many people won’t let go and learn, but will place blame at the feet of other people.

  55. Jean says:

    “This was an election in chaos”

    This election has been conducted very well, smoothly, honestly, with dignity, transparently and I am very grateful to the men and women who volunteered to work as poll workers and vote processors. No chaos whatsoever, with respect to the election.

    This was the biggest turnout in modern history and it was conducted during a pandemic. Hats off to the poll workers around the country.

    To the extent there is any chaos, its coming from a candidate.

  56. Dan from Georgia says:

    The chaos is only created by those who aren’t getting their way.

  57. Dan from Georgia says:

    And yes I say this knowing full well it goes both ways.

  58. Dread says:

    Oh Lord our God let your truth be known in all the earth. Let all liars be exposed and all those who would lay a trap for our feet be ensnared by their own devices. Let the kingdom of Christ rule in midst of the schemes of man. Kings, Popes, and Presidents are but children in your sight. We will not fear the future for we have seen him who rules the nations with the rod of iron. We do not yet see all things under his feet but we see Jesus crowned with glory and honor. We see him who tasted death for everyman and we share a like precious faith in him. Hallelujah to the Lamb.

  59. Michael says:



  60. Em says:

    Another amen, Pastor Dread – a prayer worth praying and repraying and ….

    Jean @ 10:08… Say what? ? ?
    I am maxed out on elections now
    God keep

  61. Dan from Georgia says:

    Amen Dread!

  62. Dan from Georgia says:


    I’m maxed out too!

  63. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    So I am seeing all of these Paula White stories and she is always referred to as a spiritual leader or faith leader. Is this because the news media is biblically more literate than some Christian organizations?
    The media knows that the Bible absolutely forbids ladies from being pastors and elders and assigns her pagan type titles?
    Sounds good to me.

  64. josh hamrick says:

    I think it is because she is Trump’s spiritual advisor.

  65. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Christians do not have spiritual advisors – Christians have pastors.

  66. josh hamrick says:

    Presidents have tended to have spiritual advisors. I don’t know if Trump is a Christian or not. Obama’s advisor was Rachel Held Evans.

  67. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I wonder why they don’t have pastors?
    I wonder if they ever hook up with a local church / pastor while in DC? like we would if we moved for a job?

  68. josh hamrick says:

    I know where Jimmy Carter’s home church was, and his pastor while he was in office. i think it is mostly just a tradition. The appearance of doing good.

  69. Jean says:

    In Russia, Putin could coerce the judiciary to do his bidding.

    In China, Xi could coerce the judiciary to do his bidding.

    So far, in the US, we have an independent federal judiciary.

    Good thing or bad thing?

  70. Jean says:

    Will Christians unconditionally condemn the attempted coup, which is now rhetoric, but may soon become violent?

  71. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Yes, I unconditionally condemn the Biden coup now taking place and hope that he and Kamala don’t lead it into violence.

  72. Em says:

    Like the 538, Jean apparently failed STATS 101.

  73. Em says:

    My 4:03 was a quote made by a close dear friend when they read Jean’s 10:08 from this morning…. can’t say that i disagree…..
    am i banned now Michael? LOL
    Might be a good idea as i am out of understanding and patience tonight… Still……
    God keeo

  74. Jean says:

    I don’t want you banned Em, but I do wish regarding the election that Michael would moderate it, because I would hate to see his blog used to publish false information. One would think that Christians at least could unify around the truth and 8th commandment, but apparently not.

  75. Em says:

    False information, Jean? Uhhhh….. 🙆

  76. Michael says:

    I implore you all to be irenic and calm.
    If there is voter fraud it will be found and dealt with.
    I believe in our process and believe it will produce a legitimate winner.

  77. Em says:

    Calm and peaceful, Michael? Okay. 🙏

  78. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I think it is funny that Jean throws out charges of a coup and violence – which is totally fabricated and supra- conspiracy theory and then wants others moderated for disagreeing with him – said MLD with irenic calm. 🙂

  79. Xenia says:

    I agree with Michael. Even if the process fails we’ll get the President God sent us.

  80. Xenia says:

    THIS is why we have a pyramid of toilet paper and a dozen boxes of Rice-A-Roni out in the pantry!

  81. Jean says:

    So far, the process is not failing.

  82. CM says:

    Slowly but surely the votes are being counted and in the end, Biden will win. But then I think how agonizing it is to the Orange Dear Leader and his cult followers to watch this unfold in real time, seeing him and his flunkies like Rudy, Trump Jr., Bannon, etc. all melt down. It is like the death of a thousand cuts.

    Then I sit back and enjoy my tall glass of schadenfreude, and say “Payback is a b*tch.” Or if you prefer, you reap what you sow…

  83. Dan from Georgia says:

    CM….Biden trails Trump here in GA by….1902 votes.

  84. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    It makes one wonder – if Trump runs the table on the remaining number of states, at razor thin margins — if Biden or his campaign do not concede and go to court, y’all gonna accuse Biden of trying to pull off a coup?

  85. What’s interesting is seeing the answers on Quora by foreigners criticizing our government structure, how the electoral college is undemocratic and all… so is a bi-cameral legislature and an Executive seperate from the Legislature, unless you just want a dictator the majority decides.

    This applies also to the concept of state government structures, and the referenda process, an attempt at direct democracy. I really do wonder why state governments model the bi-cameral legislatures. I know why, but maybe its time is past.

  86. Anon says:

    SharpieGate! Yes! A great non-strategy.

    What a bunch of pathetic (sore) losers.


  87. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I am pretty settled that Trump won’t win. I can sit back in the role of the loyal opposition (a role democrats refused to play), but my biggest concern is that Biden will put us back in the Iran deal – fueling the flames of war again in the Middle East and ending all hope of bringing our troops home.

  88. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Anon, you are a funny guy pointing out sore losers. You guys haven’t stopped making the world a miserable place with your 4 complete years of crying in your beer about the last election – stolen – Russian interference etc. LOL 😆

  89. Dread says:

    Biden takes the lead in Georgia.

  90. Dan from Georgia says:

    This dog took lead and won…


    Reason: Kentucky.

    Just trying to lighten things up a bit.

  91. Dan from Georgia says:


    I was thinking Georgia would take days to come to a decision, but was thinking that Trump would squeak by. Still not done counting here. Overseas and military ballots. I thought I head out he radio this morning (WSB) that today is the deadline for those votes to be counted.

  92. CM says:


    I could also win the lottery, but then that is also dealing in hypothetical situations. That being said, Biden’s margins of victory in all these swing states is (and will be) larger than Trump’s victories in the swing states in 2016. But then there was no talk of recounts or court cases filed by the Clinton campaign after Trump.

    So apparently Trump, the GOP, and their supporters whine, b*tch, and play the victim card (especially Trump) like a bunch of proggie snowflakes. And they have been doing for months if not years now…

  93. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    CM – WTF? “I could also win the lottery, but then that is also dealing in hypothetical situations.” Did you compose that before coffee?

  94. Michael says:

    Biden now leads in Georgia and Pennsylvania.
    NBC is calling him the president elect and this appears to be almost over.

  95. Xenia says:

    I wonder what losing will do to a man with Trump’s personality flaws. After weeks of exhilarating campaign rallies this abrupt deflation will be impossible for him to accept. There will be awfulness.

  96. Jean says:

    I’m not sure he has accepted yet that President Obama was born in the USA. This election is on a matter of infinitely more personal importance to him than that. Recall that he was running against “sleepy” Joe.

  97. filbertz says:

    proggie snowflakes.

    that was a simile that missed the mark…
    metaphorically speaking.

  98. Anon says:

    The Fat Lady is clearing her throat. 🙂

  99. filbertz says:

    did she choke on a chicken bone?

  100. Xenia says:

    I think there were some shenanigans in the voting because some things don’t add up. I hope some non-partisans can investigate and produce an accurate vote count, even if it means Biden wins. I think this needs to be done quickly, without intimidation from either side. 2020 has been whackadoodle enough without confusion as to won the election.

    If Biden wins, and I suspect he has, shenanigans or no, then I am going to adjust to this new reality and try not to whine too much. After all, I belong to a different Kingdom and Trump never was my king anyway, and Biden certainly will not be. So, our duty as Christians is to go about our Christian lives in prayer, fasting, thanksgiving and participating in the Sacraments. It’s not the end of the world although I believe we may have reached a point of no return (anytime soon) as far as some wicked things are concerned. But on the other hand, maybe some current wickedness will be rectified. It may be that God, in His wisdom, heard the prayers of the separated families on the border. Maybe He thinks some things are more important than others and didn’t consult me for my opinion.

    The thing that depresses me the most is that a good portion of my friends are going to be INSUFFERABLE for the foreseeable future. They will go on and on about the “stolen” election. And maybe it was stolen but if it was, God allowed it, didn’t He? And what should I personally learn from this and how should I live my life?

    So pray for Mr. Biden and, even if it’s like chewing glass, Ms. Harris. It’s what God requires of us and a big part of my repentance is doing what God requires, not what I prefer. I am, by the way, happy to live in a country where a woman of color can be elected as VP; I just wish it wasn’t THIS woman.

    I am also afraid they are going to have to drag Mr. Trump out of the White House in shackles, and this will be a horrible spectacle that will hurt the country no matter who you voted for.

    I hope both the losers and the winners respond with grace. No one likes a sore loser but a gloating winner is even worse. Both sides should consider that half the country does not agree with you.


  101. Dan from Georgia says:

    Well stated Xenia. My wife and I are praying for peace as there are people on both sides who either want to cause trouble by rioting or pointing guns…being in Georgia, I have already seen these folks with my own eyes.

    Our savior is not a consolation prize, and as Dread prayed yesterday, we should hope for truth (and truth on both sides).

    And yes, we need to respond with humility and respect. My guy may win or lose, and how does that look if I gloat and spike the ball, or if I whine and point fingers?

  102. Jean says:

    “The President is within his rights to request recounts, to call for investigation of alleged voting irregularities where evidence exists, and to exhaust legal remedies – doing these things is consistent with our election process. He is wrong to say that the election was rigged, corrupt and stolen – doing so damages the cause of freedom here and around the world, weakens the institutions that lie at the foundation of the Republic, and recklessly inflames destructive and dangerous passions.”

    Mitt Romney, November 6, 2020

  103. Anon says:


    Good musings!

    I, too, wish the President would put on his Big Boy pants and not continue to try and immolate himself and our country’s democratic norms with his loose talk and childish behavior. Sadly, based on past behavior, I strongly doubt this.

    The system is working as it was designed, IMHO. Trump or no Trump.

  104. Anon says:


    What Mitt said. Thanks for posting.

  105. Duane Arnold says:

    “I think there were some shenanigans in the voting because some things don’t add up.”

    I think one would need documented evidence to make such an assertion. Otherwise, it is a mere opinion or, worse, the amplifying of rumor…

    For myself, I prefer to wait until the end of the count and/or the outcome of any subsequent legal challenges… but I tend to be conservative in such matters.

  106. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I hope it is all resolved quickly and not the 4 year turmoil of the Democrats crying “voter fraud, voter fraud” – “Russia, Russia, Russia” – “Not my President, Not my President.”

  107. Em says:

    Someone forwarded a letter to our nation from an Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano…. The Archbishop seems to think there were “shenanigans” in this election….
    He warns us to beware of the dark side……
    Christians, the true ones, should always be cognizant of this world’s dark side. We know it rules, by God’s design, for the present…..

  108. Anon says:

    How on earth could an Italian archbishop know s*it about our election?

    Good gravy. Tilting at windmills.

  109. Xenia says:

    Archbishop Vigano was the ambassador from the Vatican to the US a while back. He knows a thing or 2 about the US. Doesn’t prove anything about our election, but he is aware of US politics. Again, doesn’t mean he’s right. His main theme of late has been uncovering corruption in the Vatican. He’s become a rallying point for traditional Catholics who are horrified at what has been happening to their church. Again, doesn’t mean he’s right about the election.

  110. Em says:

    Anon, i don’t follow these internet sites, but i am hearing from friends all over that folk outside the U.S. see what’s going on here now, particularly in nations that have gone socialist, banana republic or worse.. . as one friend pointed out it is statistically impossible for whole bins of ballots to come in 100% for one candidate ….
    I’m glad you are happy with this election, but….. . Bad gravy. And Don Quixote is long gone along with lances and most windmills… 🙆
    Christians, as some here have said, need to focus on the Eternal now…. Maybe sooner than later…. Maybe not…. Dunno ? ? ?

  111. josh hamrick says:

    Link the letter, please? I only see one from October, not since the election.

    “impossible for whole bins of ballots to come in 100% for one candidate”

    Is there any record that this happened? I know that a news site typo-ed and then fixed a number showing Biden getting 100% of 1 group of votes. This was of course screen-shotted and passed around as proof of fraud. Is there anything other than this one typo?

  112. josh hamrick says:

    And just to be clear, I think our entire election process is a fraud. I’ve said so for decades. Was proven in 2000.

    So, did fraud take place in this election? I am sure. Was it some grand conspiracy to get Trump out of office? If so, they did it in the dumbest way possible. I mean, they are gonna defraud the guy, but have the margin of error so small that he almost wins? No way.

  113. Xenia says:

    I think if fraud happened, and I am saying “*if,* it happened on the local level by election workers. Again, if. I do not believe Biden endorsed any shenanigans.

  114. Em says:

    Josh, this fire tablet won’t let me copy and paste, so i’ll send the link through Michael as he may or may not want it here
    This R.C. Priest was part of John Paul II’s admin’ so he is probably a good guy

  115. josh hamrick says:

    I know who he is, know that he has gone after Francis, and know that he’s big on New World Order type stuff. Just can’t find a post-vote article.

  116. Jean says:

    “This R.C. Priest was part of John Paul II’s admin’ so he is probably a good guy”

    I don’t know what this guy said, but if he is spreading rumors, as some here are, of voter fraud or cheating, without evidence to back it up, then he’s no good guy. He’s violating his own oath of office as a bishop.

  117. Bride of Christ says:

    Any ” fraud” will have to be proven in a court of law, thank God. Does anyone remember what the result of President Trump’s Commission to Investigate Voter Fraud was after he claimed he won the popular vote in 2016, and not Hillary, (due to voter fraud)? I do.
    Millions of dollars of taxpayers money spent, and no fraud was ever uncovered. This is just what Trump does – he starts and reposts false rumours in order to rile up his base and gain some sort of advantage for himself.. It doesn’t matter to him that he’s undermining our democracy. As the president himself would say, “SAD!”.

  118. Em says:

    Josh, the letter IS on utube… wish i could link….
    Ill go fire up my mac, i can link there

    Jean, there are accusations of irregularities coming from folk who were assigned to monitor the counts, both in Nevada and in Philly… One fella got thrown out in Philadelphia…. All liars?
    Well then there are plenty to go round. But …
    I admire your tenacity. 😉

  119. Jean says:

    Accusations are not evidence. Anyone can make an accusation, including someone who may not understand the rules.

  120. Em says:

    No, Jean, accusations are NOT evidence, but sometimes the character of the accuser goes a long way towards credibility….

    Josh, here’s the utube link IF they haven’t taken it down….

  121. Michael says:

    He’s a nutjob.
    Let there be recounts and whatever investigations we need to get people through this.
    The former president is trying to undermine our last remaining confidence in institutions for his own benefit…so investigate anything credible so we can go forward.

  122. Jean says:

    For weeks polls showed Biden ahead in PA, MI, AZ, WI, NV and elsewhere. That Biden is ahead is not a surprise. Before the election, analysts already predicted that Trump would be stronger with in person Election Day voting, whereas a majority of early voting would be done by Democrats, who were more likely to be concerned about COVID.

    If you look at a state that prohibits the election officials from processing mail in ballots before election day, then you would expect the early vote reporting to favor the candidate with the highest percentage of election day in person votes, while the candidate with the largest percentage of mail in votes would be reported later.

    In some states, any absentee ballot is processed with the same rule as applies to mail in ballots. It was GOP state legislatures that made this rule. Some red states like FL and TX and IA allowed preprocessing of early votes and avoided the sequencing issue.

  123. Michael says:

    I’m buried today…please be decent in your postings.

  124. Xenia says:

    I am a big fan of the good Archbishop, who has said that as he is getting older and will meet his Maker soon, it’s time he gets some stuff he knows about Vatican corruption off his chest. He is one of the good guys. He doesn’t really have any role to play in the US elections, I’ll grant you that. He is no nut job.

  125. Jean says:

    Some PA counties in red areas did not even begin to process mail in ballots until Wednesday, because according to them they did not have the staff available on the 3rd to run the election and process mail in ballots simultaneously.

    Biden also significantly outperformed the mail in voting in deep red PA counties run by Republicans.

  126. Michael says:


    Most of that nonsense he was spouting has already been debunked.
    It is a complete disservice to all of us to continue to spread unfounded, baseless, accusations.
    Let everything credible be investigated…even the incredible if necessary to stop people from further dividing us.

  127. Em says:

    Michael, i will not be offended if you take the utube link down.. Not at all

  128. Michael says:

    It’s simple.
    The president told his supporters not to vote by mail.
    Democrats voted by mail.
    Mail ballots are counted last.

  129. Xenia says:

    Michael, AS I SAID, I don’t think he has any role to play in the US elections. Did you read where I said that?

    Apart from believing conspiracy theories which probably 1/4 of the country also believes (are they all nut jobs too?) he is doing God’s work in uncovering Vatican corruption.

    You know, I’ve tried to be as pleasant and conciliatory as I can be here, but I throw in the towel. It’s impossible.

  130. Duane Arnold says:

    Vigano lacks any credibility outside of the extreme right wing of the Roman Catholic Church…

  131. Bride of Christ says:

    If Michael says the good archbishop is a nut job, then he is a nutjob . Michael doesn’t throw around wild accusations without good evidence. Anyone reading here long enough knows that. Please let that be end of it!

  132. Michael says:

    My hope, my fervent hope…is that people who call on Christ use this as a restart and commit to ceasing the spread of conspiracy theories that violate the Law and divide Gods people.
    We should all take this opportunity to start over.

  133. Em says:

    Is it simple? Is it? Is anything involving duplicitous humanity simple? I voted by mail and i didn’t vote for the B. H. pairing….
    I suspect there were more than just me doing that….. ? ? ?

    Uh oh, B of C sounds cultish, but Michael is an honest man and i respect him – even if he can’t stand a certain now departed Houston pastor who brought me further in my understanding of our Faith than any local pastor’s teaching that i sat under…
    God keep us all (in humility and learning, coming to knowledge and Truth)

  134. Nancy Holmes says:

    I think we all kinda love conspiracy theories–regardless of party affiliation. Hopefully we will desire to love the truth more. I found the following a help:


  135. josh hamrick says:

    Oh geez. Yeah, listened to the first few minutes of that video. He gives three examples…of nothing.
    1. Number of votes is greater than registered voters = NO. Some states allow registration on election day. Yes, there were more voters after election day than were registered before.
    2. Mail in exclusively for Joe Biden = I have only seen the one typo by the news site that was corrected on this. Is there more?
    3. Counting stopped = Uh…trump demanded that counting be stopped. Trump followers chanted “Stop the count” at the polling places.

    This guy is just sharing baseless twitter rumors. He has no insight.

  136. Michael says:

    I hate conspiracy theories. They are part of the evil root of hatred and division that is ruining us.
    Good link, Nancy.

  137. Em says:

    Josh, you may be right in your assessment of Vigano, but for my part, i have heard first person accounts, things just dont pass the proverbial smell test

    Registering on election day is madness – how can the registering voter be validated? Lots of false identity paper mills around now.

    No, it just isn’t simple. IMO. 🙆

  138. bob1 says:

    Looks like if the results hold, the ghosts of John McCain and John Lewis are alive and well, ’cause the places they represented are making the difference WRT the vote count.

    Karma is indeed a b*itch!!


  139. Em says:

    Vigano and his brother’s inheritance is a bit more nuanced as his brother was not in good health and the family felt he couldn’t manage such a large sum…. right or wrong? Dunno

    Far right Roman Catholic? Better than someone such as their present Pope. IMV, of course

    Interesting times and truth is hard to verify… Unless we’re looking up…. or so it seems to me from here.. .

  140. josh hamrick says:

    I mean, you can disagree with the laws, but do we have to change the laws every time your candidate loses?

    So all these conspiracy theories and Trumps rants have led to actual people I know, “good Christian folks”, trying to rally others on facebook to join them in taking up arms. Their country is being stolen from them, they say, and they aren’t going to sit back and take it. They site the same nonsense Vigano sited. I don’t want these people to get hurt, or hurt somebody and end up in jail. But that’s what this rhetoric incites. McCain and George HW Bush both have concession speeches floating around social media today. That’s what we need right now. Stop the insanity, for heaven’s sakes.

  141. Em says:

    bob1, if you’re not an experuenced, duplistic politician, it looks like you’re sunk.. John McCain WAS a heroic prisoner, but as a man? A civilian? I’ve known too many similar fellas to really like the guy… but i am old and skeptical now 😒

  142. Em says:

    Josh, yes “taking up arms” would not accomplish anything good, i don’t believe ……

    Time for me to go do something else now
    God keep

  143. Jean says:

    “But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the [curse of the] law.”

    I can assure everyone that the Spirit does lead anyone to gossip or accuse other human beings of fraud or deceit in carrying out their vocations without evidence.

  144. Jean says:

    “But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the [curse of the] law.”

    I can assure everyone that the Spirit does not lead anyone to gossip or accuse other human beings of fraud or deceit in carrying out their vocations without evidence.

  145. Jean says:

    Please ignore the first comment, which had a typo in it.

  146. Michael says:

    “I don’t want these people to get hurt, or hurt somebody and end up in jail. But that’s what this rhetoric incites.”


  147. Jean says:

    “Scoundrels, villains, are they who deal in crooked talk.
    Proverbs 6:12”

    Marco Rubio, November 6, 2020

  148. Dan from Georgia says:

    Josh @2:56pm and Michael @3:12pm,

    Thanks for these comments. I can’t take much more of this childIsh and immature “but he/but she” crap much longer. Truth doesn’t seem to matter anymore, but just who “your guy” is seems to be whether the election was fair or not. More and more conservatives and Republicans and calling the purveyors of conspiracies to task, and even aiming their criticisms at the president also. Today Erick Erickson here on the local radio station WSB even said that pretty much every social media-driving conspiracy/photo/plotline has been easily debunked. Dr. Albert Mohler, vote supports President Trump said for Christians to knock it off, if I may paraphrase him.

    Geez, where are the good statesmen indeed. Instead we have a nation of privileged babies who cry and scream if they don’t get their way. Long ago I was playing Scrabble with my much-to-smart-for-his-own-good nephew and I basically quit the game on him because he started to cheat because he wasn’t winning, and then went crying to mom because he couldn’t get his way.

    As I stated above and will state again, the best thing to do when you lose is to lose gracefully and learn from your mistakes and don’t make excuses.

  149. Jean says:

    Amen, Dan from Georgia.

  150. Dan from Georgia says:

    Thanks Jean, and I speak above from an abundance of experience having been a crybaby and complainer/blamer for much of my life

  151. Jean says:

    My biggest concern with the President’s attitude is the potential for violence, injury and loss of life. I brought this up before the election, but I am even more concerned about it now.

    There are thousands of Trump supporters, demonstrating as I write this outside of election offices in the contested states. They are passionate and probably in many cases armed. They are listening to their candidate and taking their cues from him.

    All it will take is for one energetic, maybe unstable, Trump supporter to construe something Trump says as a call to armed action and there could be bloodshed. I don’t want him to die, for any law enforcement officer to die, nor for any election worker to die.

    Do Christians want to play a part in bloodshed by contributing to the communication stream of lies, unfounded accusations, conspiracy theories, etc.?

    There is a reason why of all the words God could have given the Israelites, the commandment against bearing false witness made the top ten. There is a reason why using hate words against your neighbor made it into the Sermon on the Mount. Luther said that hate is the same as murdering your neighbor in your heart.

    Why would someone pray for K. Harris like chewing on glass? Wouldn’t your vice president need your prayers more than ever if she, in your view, had a deficient theology? Wouldn’t you pray more than ever that she might hear the Gospel and repent with faith? Wouldn’t you pray for your leaders for God’s wisdom to properly lead our nation? Why would that be so hard for VP Harris?

    I implore Christians to not take part in, nor contribute to, the potential shedding of blood, because of your lack of self-disciplining your tongue and/or keyboard. There is no fraud until it is proved. It doesn’t matter if your best friend said to you that he/she personally witnessed it.

    The President has the right to pursue all legal remedies provided at law. Non one denies him his right. But he also has a solemn responsibility as the chief law enforcement officer of the country to maintain the peace.

    I expect him to tell his supporters to exercise their 1st Amendment rights peacefully, to affirm the proper venue of the judiciary to resolve disputes, and to be patient with the legal process that he chooses to pursue. He needs to come out publicly to condemn any election related violence.

    But I will say this: Unless he comes up with evidence for fraud or cheating, the judicial process will be a short process. There is a reason why federal judges are appointed for life.

  152. Bride of Christ says:

    Thank you, Duane,for your link to the article about the archbishop. I think Michael’s characterization of Mr. Vigano as “nut job” is apt! It is time we stop believing baseless conspiracy theories, and start holding those accountable who spread idle gossip in order to “tickle the ears” of undiscerning believers. There are too many among our ranks who will allow themselves to believe what they so desperately WANT to believe. Are we Christians no better than the foolish, ignorant Q anon believers?

  153. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Hmmm, I don’t remember a single person here in the past 6 month warn Christians to stay away from Black Lives Matters and their hate speech and their calls to violence. I wonder why?
    Not one said I don’t want Christians to get hurt or arrested. I know, BLM made righteous threats and caused righteous violence.

    Selective outrage at it’s best.

  154. Em says:

    Over the last four years, praying for Trump, i have had to follow our Lord’s example of not my will, but God the Father’s will be done. Not easy as i thought of Jesus praying, knowing exactly what he faced and I’d have to confess foot dragging to God.
    What is God’s will for this nation in the immediate years ahead? We must pray, asking for grace and mercy, but knowing that whatever comes now Is God’s will…. Kind of like having the left side of my nose sliced off (thank God, the skilled surgeon’s graft doesn’t really look too bad).
    As the hymn says, “All is well, if so the Father wills… ” A hard truth to internalize, but a true Truth….
    Anybody have any suggestions as to what to pray for K. Harris that isn’t hypocritical?

  155. Jean says:

    “Anybody have any suggestions as to what to pray for K. Harris that isn’t hypocritical?”

    Your passive aggressiveness is unbecoming.

  156. josh hamrick says:

    MLD – I’ve seen violence condemned from everyone here, no matter that purveyor. Wouldn’t take long to dig up those comments from all the regulars here.

    Selective reading is more like it.

  157. josh hamrick says:

    Pray that she would know the Lord and experience His love like never before. Pray that she will be a wise leader and a blessing to the nation.

    Same thing I prayed for Trump, by the way.

  158. Em says:

    Honest question, Jean. It may be unbecoming, but better that than hypocritical. Can one pray for a soul sold to the political devil? The longest time the Dems can prop up dear old Joe is 2 years. . .. IMV
    No suggestion? Did our Lord include Pilate or Herod in His petitions? For or against?
    How will your tribe pray for Harris?

  159. Em says:

    Thank you, josh

  160. Jean says:


    Honest answer: When someone asks me what they claim is an “honest question,” and then taint it with vile rhetoric, e.g., “sold to the political devil,” or “prop up dear old Joe is 2 years,” I do not interpret your question as honest. In that case I ignore it. Why? Because I am not here to debate your political opinions. You have them and I will not change them. I think you should know, however, that your opinions, as expressed in writing here, are not Christian.

  161. Dan from Georgia says:

    Em, an HONEST prayer is best. If you don’t like Democrats, then get beyond that. Mrs. Harris is still a human being that Jesus died for (no predestination comments pls). I have relatives that all vote democratic, and I still love them and pray for them in honesty and sincerity, not so they vote republican, but so that they can see our God.

    Oh, and btw, I’ll be outraged at whomever I damn well please. And for the record, and I have stated this here before, I got disenfranchised and outraged after following Progressive Christians for a while, and realizing they too were fundamentalists.

  162. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Josh, I have never read here anyone specifically warning Christians to stay away from BLM .
    Why single out Christians with Trump?

    On election night I didn’t see any warning to Christians to avoid Antifa violence as they we pillaging Portland.

  163. Bride of Christ says:

    Regarding Archbishop Vigano…Ezekiel 22:28. ” And prophets have smeared whitewash for them, seeing false visions and divining lies for them, saying ‘ Thus says the Lord God’, when the Lord has not spoken.”

  164. Bride of Christ says:

    MLD, I was warned by Michael and Xenia in no uncertain terms to stay sway from BLM and not to support them. You must have missed it.

  165. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I have a prayer for Harris – that she rescind her campaign promise that after they get Trump out of office “we are coming for his supporters.”

  166. josh hamrick says:

    Ummm, because both mysterious groups you mentioned are hard to identify while Trump stands on a soapbox with a bullhorn to spread his goofiness?

    But yes, if any of my acquaintances were getting worked into a violent frenzy by you imaginary bad groups, I would be againt that too.

  167. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Bride, well if that is true I welcome those who agree that a Christian is dishonoring God if the associate at all with BLM – that it’s purposes are as antithetical to God as Nazism.

  168. Em says:

    Dan from GA.
    For the record i do not have a blanket dislike for Dems, nor do i have good feelings for all Repub’s

    Jean, honest question, honest opinions… no credibility with you? Okay, message received… My short term memory is shot, however, i think i can retain your observation on my writing skill … 🙆
    some of us folk just don’t converse well – no worries – and no replies will be expected… My best passive aggressive parting shot ! ! ! 😉

  169. josh hamrick says:

    MLD – How does one associate with BLM?

  170. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Imaginary bad groups?
    I could suggest the same about your imaginary Trump groups. Do they have ID cards?

    Why don’t you guys just say your irrational thoughts come solely from Trump hate and call it a night?

  171. josh hamrick says:

    I have no clue what you are even talking about. Trump himself is stirring the pot. The “group” is a couple of people from my town on facebook. No mystery. I know all of them.

    Anyhow, I forgot how often you jump subjects on here. Dizzying.

    I do not like Trump at all. I think I’ve also made it clear that I don’t like Biden.

    Moving on.

  172. Dan from Georgia says:

    Thanks Em for the clarification. No offense meant towards you. I walk a similar line between approval and disapproval of some politicians.

  173. Muff Potter says:

    The fat lady ain’t sung yet, which means there’s still countin’ goin’ on…, which means it ain’t over yet.

  174. Michael says:


    Unsubstantiated claims and accusations won’t be posted here.
    I think you need therapy…

  175. CM says:

    Michael and Jean’s comments about the mail-in ballots vs. in-person voting are correct. Many states were not allowed to start counting mailed ballots until election day. One other thing people forget is that the same people (and numbers of people) that process,run and count the election day proceedings are the same ones who have to count the mailed ballots.

    So to all you people b*thing about irregularities, delays, and conspiracies about election stealing like that nutjob priest,, maybe you should ask your Trump-loving GOP state lawmakers why did they hamstring efforts from the Beginning?

    Unless you are truly obtuse or stupid, everyone could see that because of COVID, mail-in and early voting would be a good chunk if not most of the ballots cast. Which means these Trump people and their supporters intended to EFF things up to give Trump an advantage.

  176. CM says:

    Dan From GA,

    I last heard Biden is up around 7200 in GA and will likely increase in his when all the remaining ballots including any remaining military ballots. Do you know if it will be enough to avoid an automatic recount?

  177. Dan from Georgia says:

    Hi CM,

    I was wondering about that too yesterday. I can check around.

  178. Dan from Georgia says:


    This is from the Washingtonpost….23hr old article so it’s the most reliable report:

    “ “Right now Georgia remains too close to call. Out of approximately 5 million votes cast we’ll have a margin of a few thousand,” Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger (R) said.

    “With a margin that small, there will be a recount in Georgia.”

    A formal recount challenge likely will not be made until later in November.

    Under Georgia law, a candidate can request a recount if the margin is less than 0.5 percent of votes cast. That request must be made within two days of results being certified.”

    What is also noted elsewhere is that a recount isn’t automatic, but has be requested.

  179. Jean says:

    A few morning thoughts on the election:

    (1) Marijuana was a winner. Apparently, Montana, Arizona, New Jersey and South Dakota approved marijuana ballot measures this election. Marijuana appears to enjoy growing bi-partisan approval. Does everyone remember how to roll a phat blunt?

    (2) Many Democrats and Independents who voted for Clinton in 2016 were devastated by her loss. They were upset by the the last minute 10/28 Comey letter and by the foreign interference in the election in support of Trump. But to my knowledge, Clinton supporters did not attempt to impeach the election process or claim fraud or cheating in the administration of the election by States and local election offices.

    (3) Ticket splitting was alive and well in 2020. It appears that in swing states, there were many voters who voted against Trump, while at the same time voting for Republicans for state houses and Congress. This means that the electorate may be to the right of the most liberal wing of the Democratic party, while being to the left of the most conservative wing of the Republican party. In my opinion, that’s not a bad place to be. Whether the Republicans and Democrats will recognize this and govern accordingly is another question.

  180. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I called my 93 yr old mom yesterday afternoon to let her gloat about the Biden victory. I am a good son and it is my job to bring joy to her life. She was ecstatic for the 30 min we spoke.

    I also let her know the MJ passed here in AZ and now we can toke up together when she visits and not just when I visit her.

  181. Michael says:

    CNN just called it for Biden.

  182. Anon says:


  183. CM says:


    So now in the immortal words of that reality show that Trump made famous, we can now tell him this:

    “You’re fired.”

  184. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    So we now move on to my 14th president. It makes no difference the problems remain the same.
    I will need to be satisfied with his 200 federal judges, his 3 SCOTUS appointments and the unprecedented peace in the Middle East.

    So we move on.

  185. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    LOL – my daughter just text me saying ” Biden won – I’m going to hold a funeral for my 401K!”

  186. Duane Arnold says:

    If nothing else, I pray that this is a win for the children on the border…

  187. CM says:


    With all QE and liquidity pumped into the markets by 6 trillion in spending and injections by the Fed, in futile efforts to keep the markets and economy alive, her 401k is a zombie anyway. It’s but doesn”t know it yet.

  188. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Duane, we will see. Last month Biden vowed to return to Obama’s immigration policies.
    Brother Michael here has long called those policies immoral, evil and cruel.

    So take your pick. As I say, nothing changes.

  189. Anon says:

    The markets will respond well to a Biden presidency.

    Jim Cramer on a potential Joe Biden win: ‘It’s nirvana for the stock market’

  190. Michael says:

    I don’t think gloating is appropriate.
    Biden has promised to remedy the evil on the border.

    What this all says to me this morning is that God ignored the prayer rallies of the men I’ve fought for twenty years and listened to the groans of children on the border.
    That may not be reality, but it comforts me.

  191. Jean says:


    The S&P 500 was up 5 or 7% just last week. The prospect of a Biden presidency with a GOP majority Senate is being interpreted bullishly by the markets right now. What makes this especially remarkable is that last week is also the first time where America is seeing in excess of 100K of new coronavirus cases per day. The failure to control the epidemic is going to produce a severe headwind to economic recovery.

  192. CM says:

    For those of you wondering, Don the Con, aka Toddler in Chief, has 74 days to vacate the premises of the White House. And if he refuses, the Secret Service is more than capable of dealing with trespassers. Trump will leave the White House. The only question is under his own power or forcefully removed by police in handcuffs. If it is the latter, I would watch that on pay per view. And I really hope you Trump supporters have the same shame and embarrassment as a mother does when their child has a meltdown in a crowded store or mall.

  193. Michael says:


    You are banned from this site.
    There are plenty of places where your nonsense is welcome.
    This isn’t one of them.

  194. Michael says:

    I am going to ask one last time.
    Please speak about others with the dignity to would have them ascribe to you.
    Use this time as a restart to civility in discourse.

  195. Em says:

    CM, i suspect he’ll go on his way voluntarily after the 74 days… ☺
    However, we’ve got an interesting two months ahead of us…..

    Congratulations to those of us here who are seeing their choice of candidates headed for the Whitehouse. 😇

  196. Michael says:


    No one can see your rants.
    I just hooked them into the spam filter and I won’t see them either.
    Enjoy your day.

  197. Bride of Christ says:

    Thank you, Em…that is very big of you. May you be an example to all of us!

  198. Anon says:

    I think it would be appropo for all of us, no matter where we stand politically, to acknowledge and thank the tens of thousands (and probably more) of vote counters across the country. They deserve our kudos. I’ve done precinct and vote counting in the past. It’s quite tedious and difficult. (It only paid minimum wage, too. Everyone I know basically did it as a public service). I believe they’ve shown our system works.

    Hats off to ’em!

  199. Michael says:

    So…this is a sample what I banned on the back end…a succession of posts consigning me to the lake of fire for caring about children who were already born…this is what he learned in church…


    John 8:44
    You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. Lake of fire!

    Michael, you’re a false prophet. A supporter of abortion and murder. Go into your corner now and pout.

    Michael, Like a thief in the night. Abortionists and body part sellers will burn and those who support them.

    Michael, the false prophet of Phoenix Preacher. I know you’re looking at my posts, you vile DEMON! The false teacher will burn in the lake of fire.

    Michael, God will say to you: I never knew you!

    Michael, you will burn forever, abortionist. You are a false prophet like Osteen and many others.

  200. bob1 says:

    Wow. That’s one really, really, really full-of-hate diatribe.

  201. Michael says:

    In 20 years online I’ve never expressed support for abortion.
    I have always expressed support for those seeking asylum and immigration reform.

    What is posted above is the difference between being pro fetus and pro life.
    I’m pro life…from the womb to the grave.

  202. Michael says:


    I amen your words about those working the polls.

  203. Bride of Christ says:

    That’s a post from a sad, little, frightened person, not a Christian.

  204. Em says:

    Years ago my mother volunteered her home for a precinct polling place and participated in the hand counting of ballots – it is tedious work, but for the record, much of the tallying is now done with machine scanning

  205. Jean says:

    A man of class and an outstanding witness of his faith.

    “Ann and I extend our congratulations to President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris. We know both of them as people of good will and admirable character. We pray that God may bless them in the days and years ahead.” Mitt Romney, 11/7/2020

  206. My question now is about doctrine. Will doctrine make a roaring comback, especially among the Calvinist. Im pretty sure that a lot of people have been smoldering inside as doctrinal distinctions had to be buried.

    Who knew that John Piper would make such a timely pre-election statement.

  207. Michael says:

    Here’s the last one…then I have to get busy.

    “Michael, See, I knew you were reading my posts. You’re praising a rapist, abortionist, a corrupt politician who sold out our country.

    You are a false teacher:

    2 Peter 2:1 – But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

    Keep showing them, Michael! At least some will see who’ve they’ve been lied to.”

    I am praising in hope that children will be reunited with their parents.
    I am praising in hope that DACA folks will be able to live in peace.
    I am praising in hope that wall building will end and bridge building will resume.
    I am praising in hope that those fleeing poverty and violence will be treated as humans made in the image of God.
    I am praising in hope of an end to cruelty.
    If those things offend you…you are correct in pointing out we worship different gods.

  208. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “A man of class and an outstanding witness of his faith.”
    I don’t disagree with Romney’s statement, but the witness of his faith is that he worships a false God and all false God worship is demonic and idolatry.

  209. Em says:

    MLD @ 11:05 – I’m pretty sure you called that correctly… 🙆

  210. Dread says:

    Here is my observation and admonition for us. I intend to show honor to the one who won and the one who lost. I have many reasons to honor our President. He does not deserve unreserved respect but he did many things that we need and need to continue.

    However, Donald J Trump was not a man who gave honor to those who should have had it. He could begrudgingly do it but not whole heartedly. The election may be a tale of three Johns and dishonor.

    John Dingle MI
    John McCain AZ
    John Lewis GA

    Three men from three states that supported POTUS in 2016 and apparently got flipped this time. Trump’s great strength and his worst weakness were woefully intertwined. He got hoisted on his own petard.

  211. Michael says:

    Perhaps now we can debate issues instead of personalities…without religious inferences and with respect and dignity for all.

  212. Dread says:

    I guess it was John Dingell

    My bad — memory

  213. bob1 says:

    I don’t give a s*it what Romney’s religion is — or isn’t.

    What he said is extremely decent.

    When someone does, they should be acknowledged and feted — especially right now.

  214. Duane Arnold says:


    Apparently there are those here who have windows into men’s souls…

  215. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    If we don’t want a man’s religion to enter the conversation, the original writer should not have compared his comment as a witness to that religion.

    As to the Romney statement on its own, I was the first to say I agreed with it.

  216. bob1 says:

    I believe God makes us all capable of doing good…

    “As sinners, we are still God’s good creatures. To illustrate the relationship between being a good creature and being a sinner, Reformation theologians used the analogy of water and ink. Water is the good creation, ink is sin, and the sinner is a glass of water with a few drops of ink. All the glass in the water is tainted, but it’s still mostly water, not ink. Analogously, all our good deeds are marred by sin, but they are still mostly good deeds, not crimes masquerading as merits.”

    Free of Charge, Miroslav Volf

  217. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    It’s funny – BLM gathers, riots, burns down cities no one says they are irresponsible during Covid.
    Trump has rallies, accused of being irresponsible and now everyone’s grandma is going to die.

    I am watching feeds around several cities of huge crowds gathering for celebration — no thought about poor granny.

  218. CM says:


    You are aware that many of the Trump rallies were Indoors with such things as recirculated air and such? The protests have been outdoors. Perhaps that detail escapes you.

  219. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    He caught hell here in NW AZ by national media – outdoors, middle of the desert on a runway 15K people.

    CA guidelines for Thanksgiving, no more than 10-15 people, outdoors not longer than 2 or 3 hours. So how are all those people at LA City Hall allowed to gather?

  220. Anon says:

    Sour grapes from the King.

    Ignore him. Move on. It’s easy.

  221. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Anon, Jesus Christ is the King. Your advice is dangerous.

  222. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    In the end so I am not misunderstood I wish Trump would concede honorable, take the historical Presidential door prize (pardoning all your friends) and take the role as kingmaker for 2024.

  223. Duane Arnold says:

    I thought the election was over until I saw all the “yard signs” here…

  224. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael said this thread was for our reactions to Tuesday’s election. Don’t be such a democrat and continue to stifle the speech of others.
    There are many other threads you can go read. Go find some where you post your dusty Augustine yard signs.

  225. Duane Arnold says:

    You can always sell your yard signs as “memorabilia”…. 😁

  226. Duane Arnold says:

    PS… The Augustinian Friar, Martin Luther, would object to your disparaging of Augustine… 😁

  227. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Oh burn! Just like we were still in Jr. high. 😉

  228. bob1 says:


    Weren’t all the major Reformers big fans and readers of Augustine?

  229. Em says:

    When my afternoons get really boring up here in the mountains, i love to come here and find you gentlemen having at each other… Thank you. 😉

    But i do know that when the Lord calls roll, you’ll all be there
    God keep

  230. Dan from Georgia says:


    Please share more horse adventures and stories from the mountains. I grew up in the Great Plains but love horses and the mountains. Haven’t been to the mountains since Glacier Park in 1985.

  231. Dan from Georgia says:


    Meant that in all sincerity….we all need a diversion at times!

  232. bob1 says:


    Sportsmanship is being joyous in victory, without gloating. And it is being sad in defeat without being a sore loser. It is a standard I hope we can ultimately achieve.

    — Dan Rather on Twitter

  233. Mike E. says:

    MLD..your mom sounds like a very intelligent and wise lady. You should listen to her! 🤣😎

  234. Jean says:

    Over the course of 40 years of adult employment, I have had a lot of different jobs in a variety of industries and locations.

    I have experienced being “let go.” It never feels good. I have been brought to tears by that experience. Nothing attacks the self-esteem of a person more than being told you’re no longer wanted or needed. I get it.

    Only once was I terminated effective the same day. In all other cases, I was given a notice period. In each of those cases where I knew my employment with a particular employer would be coming to an end, I was faced with the questions: What will I do with my remaining time? What will my approach be to the employer who is letting me go?

    I felt both hurt and anger. I have felt the urge to say “f**k you. I have felt the urge to try to punish my employer for what I thought was a bad and unfair decision. I have felt the urge to check out mentally to what I learned was a very short future with my employer. I felt pissed off.

    But in every case, I chose a different path. Maybe it was my Christianity. I decided to actually work hard to show my employer what he was losing. I decided to work hard, so that I would retain the respect of my co-workers and the relationships I had built. I decided to work hard, so that I would go out with a good conscience.

    I’m not BS-ing you. Many if not all readers here have been in the position at some time in your life of having been let go. It stinks and it hurts and, from your perspective it was unjust (and it may very well may have been unjust – we live in a world of injustice).

    But, while we may have fantasized about stealing proprietary information from our employer, of loading a virus into the computer system, of destroying work in process, or of sluffing off during our notice period, I bet that most of you, like me, decided to finish strong, even though it was not our choice.

    I am a pro-science person, as you know, and a believer that the coronavirus is the greatest economic and health challenge of this generation, as you also know. I pray that during the next 74 (or whatever) days the outgoing Administration will remain on the ship and man the woodwind. Our nation cannot afford a transition period in which everything is put on hold or left rudderless. I pray that if Trump will not himself help, that at least he will permit his Administration and various institutions to continue the fight against the virus and cooperate in transition planning with the Biden team.

    People are dying; hospitals are flooded with the sick; health care workers are tired; small businesses – retail, bars and restaurants – are on the brink of permanent closing; hotels and airlines are laying off tens of thousands of workers. It is axiomatic that we can’t have an “open” economy, or put our people back to work, if we have an epidemic raging in our country.

    We can’t wish it away, deny it, ignore it, or blame someone else for it as a solution. We’ve got to come together as a nation to look out for one another and to place trust in the people God has placed over us to lead us through a pandemic.

    I will tell your straight up, that God has not placed your pastor or other religious guru over you to give you medical or scientific advice or to guide you in keeping your family safe from a coronavirus.

  235. Duane Arnold says:


    Absolutely …

  236. Duane Arnold says:


    I try to approach the level I’m presented with…

  237. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Mike E. As I said, I already smoke weed with her and I called to let her gloat about the elections. That’s enough, I can’t add listening to her also.

  238. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Duane – keep trying – one day you may rise to my level. When you get there I will give you a cookie and an attaboy.

  239. Duane. Those who live in the cities shall goeth out and gather the signage for seven years as fuel. Both the great signage with the lessor signage..

  240. Bride of Christ says:

    Jean, That was a wonderful post. It really gets to the heart if the matter facing President Trump now. I , too, have experienced lay offs during my 35 year teaching career. A man’s , or woman’s, character is probably revealed in the midst of set backs and hardship more than at any other time during their lives. We Christians would be wise to pray for Trump and our country during this period of transitioning power.

  241. Jean says:

    Thank your Bride of Christ. I don’t gloat in this moment, because of empathy. It’s especially hard when you know that your empathy goes unreciprocated. But that’s the difference between a good work and a work of the law. Our reward is in heaven. May God bless the Church of Christ and all his saints here on earth.

  242. Mike E. says:

    Nathan Priddis re: great and lessor signage: 🤣🤣🤪🤪🔥🔥

  243. Dan from Georgia says:

    I’ve been fired twice, not counting very short stints with temp agencies. Humbling indeed. Rug pulled out from underneath you. Lack of security. Ego taking a hit.

  244. Mike E. says:

    MLD-You smoke weed with your mom but can’t listen to her? Might need to look into a new strain. 🤣🤣

  245. Em says:

    Dan @ 3:31…. A horse story
    Just came inside from a vet visit to my daughter’s Andalusian rescue horse… A 14 year old saddle horse sold to a feed lot and on its way to Mexico slaughterhouse….
    My daughter bought him as a pasture buddy for her mare whose life long companion/brother had just died.
    The vet found some blood in his stool and thinks he has rocks (minerals that form like kidney stones in a horse belly) – gives Trooper a 30 – 40% chance of surviving. There will be some heart broken children, who’ve been given free riding lessons on him by my daughter and neighbors who gone trail riding on him.
    A people loving pony who has been through strangles, cured by vet school in eastern WA. Vet says we could take him back for surgery but the $$s just aren’t there for that. We need Divine intern for sure
    He was meant to be a companion for the mare and she can’t stand him – 2 boss horses. But she is unhappy, running the fence line and whinying if he is not in there with her. A fickle girl… 😏
    Happy stories? Picture little children learning how to saddle and bridle a horse and then spending an hour in the arena learning to ride – stear, trot, stop and canter a bit, too.
    But life goes on and we still have hope as we pray for the little guy.
    Sorry it wasn’t a happier horse tale….

  246. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Mike E – I hold her health care POA – she had better listen to me. When I visit her, I stand in her kitchen and unplug the toaster a couple of times. When she asks what I am doing, I say “just practicing.” 🙂

  247. Duane Arnold says:


    Golly gee whiz… really!?!

  248. Duane Arnold says:


    Sounds like a plan…

  249. bob1 says:

    “Just left an ER shift, and it hit me.

    Healthcare providers will be respected for tirelessly working to save lives, not accused of falsifying diagnoses or profiteering off a horrible pandemic.

    We will have a partner working with us, not against us.

    It already feels so good.”

    Craig Spencer MD MPH on Twitter

  250. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    bob1, I know I am not as sharp as you so you will need to explain to me – how on Day 1 as President elect millions of Biden encouraged supporters filling the streets of several cities, breaking all CDC Covid guidelines is showing respect to healthcare workers?

    I see the Biden supporters saying “screw the healthcare workers!”

  251. MLD? A man that appreciates the green herb of the field? Reallly?
    Next we’ll learn you’re a three time ballroom dance champion as well.

  252. CM says:

    To all you supporters of Trump out there, he still has a path to 270. A good diet and plenty of exercise and Trump will be there before you know it. 😀

  253. Jean says:

    While it is relatively low risk for a person (hear on earth, not in heaven) to indulge his flesh on social media with lies, misrepresentations, spreading gossip, making unfounded accusations, and/or lending credence to conspiracy theories, lawyers are no so fortunate.

    From the ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct:

    “Rule 8.4: Misconduct

    “It is professional misconduct for a lawyer to:
    . . . .

    “(c) engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation;

    “(d) engage in conduct that is prejudicial to the administration of justice;”

    The sanctions for professional misconduct range from suspension to debarment.

    Lawyers engaging in the election dispute, who depend on income earned from the practice of law to feed their families, or others who are concerned about their reputations, should be prudent about what they are willing to claim on behalf of a client in pleadings they file and in courtrooms in which advocate. It doesn’t work in the judicial system like it works here.

  254. bob1 says:



    The latest results from Trump University show Rome Burning in a Man is ahead in all 70 states.


  255. CM says:

    I find rather poetic that when Biden was announced the winner, Rudy was starting his press conference at The Four Seasons LANDSCAPE Company, which is nestled between a crematorium and a sex toy store. Sums up the Trump Era quite well. God really does have a sense of humor.

  256. Em says:

    People much smarter than i, statisticians and computer programmers, honest people are very worried about blatant vote tampering in this election.. I’m hearing the term, “banana republic.” Theres talk of a coupe in progress….
    instead of gloating or hand wringing, we should all be praying for this Republic to survive – IMNSHO

  257. Dan from Georgia says:


    Sorry to hear about Trooper’s condition. My wife and I are animal lovers and becoming attached to our dogs is a blessing, but there are tough times. My little buddy Andy (beagle) recently tore a ligament in his back-right leg chasing after a squirrel. The surgery is way to expensive. I fell in love with him when I first met him and he jumped up on me. He and our other beagle Izzy are both rescues, and despite their issues due to being abused or strays, we wouldn’t have it any other way. The children’s reaction to riding on Trooper reminds me of my wife’s reaction when she was a little girl and was riding a horse!

  258. CM says:


    To put in bluntly, you have no idea what you are talking about and turn off all the conspiracy BS. Yes the Dems are able to set up in 4 states Biden to win BUT NOT wins for the Senate and House races to get or expand control.

    I suggest you read up on Occam’s razor. The simplest explanation is that many people wanted Trump gone as POTUS but still voted for R downballot. Ever here of a group called Republican Voters Against Trump? Google it. But all you Trump Kool Aid drinkers can admit that.

  259. Michael says:

    Please speak respectfully to each other.
    All these concerns need to be addressed so we can go forward.
    We will lead the way in going forward toward a more civil discourse.

  260. Jean says:

    “People much smarter than i, statisticians and computer programmers, honest people are very worried about blatant vote tampering in this election.. I’m hearing the term, “banana republic.” Theres talk of a coupe in progress….”

    The odds are, you are listening to blatant frauds and are being defrauded yourself, and to the extent you pass this stuff along, you are defrauding others.

    If there is anything “blatant,” then it will come out. The President has Republican Governors in Georgia and AZ. He has Republican State houses in PA, WI and MI. He has the FBI, Homeland Security, the Justice Department and an array of other law enforcement agencies at his disposal.

    He has great attorneys like, (LOL) Rudy Giuliani. Crack strategists like Kushner, Miller and Ivanka. Tenacious seed, like Don Jr. and Eric.

    Anything blatant I would expect will be filed in court, right? Why hasn’t it been? When will it be?

    The internet can be a great resource. But can also be a cesspool.

  261. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Why all the angst? We are only on the first day of the Gore rule (he challenged for 39 days and didn’t file a legal action until day 4.

    Rest and relax – Bush still had plenty of time to set up his government in the remaining days.
    Chill brothers. 🙂

  262. bob1 says:

    Well, at least one of Trump’s court evangelicals, Robert Jeffress, has decided to accept reality and affirm that Biden is our president elect.
    Good on him!

    The only thing I don’t agree with is his opinion that

    “Here is our chance to show that Christians are not hypocrites. ”

    Sorry. I think that ship sailed long ago.


  263. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    As has been pointed out, lawyers cannot be trusted.
    In the fine words of Dick the Butcher – “the first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyer,”
    As reported by W. Shakespeare.

  264. Em says:

    Occams razor is a term that i am familiar with. 😏.
    I dont get my information off the internet – lots of smart retired people up here in these mountains ….
    My only reason for posting was the hope that all who come here ARE or will be praying for our Republic – pray against the assumption that it was built by exploiting “people of color.” It was the the culmination of a dream, yes. A dream of common folk who’d been exploited themselves on the other side of an ocean. . . Determined to build – over time – a nation of educated people who were tolerant of all who caught the dream and put their shoulders to the plow toward the goal….
    Think content of character, perhaps?
    God keep us all – ALL of us

  265. Jean says:

    Not all people of color were exploited, Em. Some, like the Indians were merely dispossessed, forced to convert, moved around, often just killed. But, it’s undeniable that Africans were bought and sold as property here and that Chinese were exploited as cheep labor and at the same time denied basic rights accorded to white Americans.

    American will not move past these atrocities until they are revealed to the light to be seen for what they are. No amount of revisionist history will change the truth of history.

  266. Duane Arnold says:

    In terms of the documented exploitation of people of color, try ‘Empire of Cotton: A Global History’ by Sven Beckert. Also, ‘The Half Has Never Been Told: Slavery and the Making of American Capitalism’ by Edward Baptist. Also, it is worth considering the fatality rates on ‘the middle passage’… It is all also part of our history.

  267. Michael says:

    Hopefully we can be a people who both celebrate our boundless accomplishments and own the dark places of our history.

  268. Duane Arnold says:


    Indeed. It is like good photography – light and shadows…

  269. Bride of Christ says:

    I recently read that Jill Biden, our next new First Lady, plans to continue teaching school children. She will become the first First Lady to hold a full-time job ! That’s another first for American women, besides Kampala Harris’s first. What a wholesome, accomplished role model Jill Biden will be for American girls and young women. I believe President Trump’s wife has been one of our least liked First Ladies ever. (Except for the men who liked looking at her). I will never be able to forget the saying painted on the jacket she wore when she visited the children being held at the border. ” I don”t care, Do you?” or something like that. I’m afraid our current First Lady’s biggest accomplishment has been becoming the third wife of a billionaire, and being able to afford enough plastic surgery to look like a 25 year old Playboy bunny. I’ll never understand how someone with so much money who lived in America for as long as Melania never learned how to speak proper English. I am an ESL, or second language acquisition teacher, and I know that there are free classes everywhere in the U.S to help foreigners assimilate and learn our language properly. Jill Biden will certainly be a better role model than President Trump’s trophy wife! After all, which role would you like to see your own daughter aspire to one day?

  270. Em says:

    Slave exploutation? Yes, it happened, but do not forget that the Union went to war, shed copious amounts of blood to preserve a nation that, for the most part, was against owning slaves….
    I have some native american blood in my veins, but the tribalism and cruelty perpetrated by so many of the tribes was no loss. I am not overlooking the reservation attempt to solve the problem, nor the bad actors, government expropriation existed then and, unless your head is in the sand up to your clavicle, you must admit it still does… Bureaucracy gives good cover to the exploiters..
    That said, none of us know all that we think we. ……. know….😳

  271. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    BOC is quite petty and catty. Mrs Trump speaks 7 languages.

  272. Em says:

    Jill Biden a role model? Jill’s ex, bill stevenson, maintains that she was having an affair with good old joe while still married to bill, after he, bill, introduced them…
    Guess one just has to choose who to believe, eh?

    Sorry – truly – for turning this thread into a hog wallow… But i think we need to get the stars out of our eyes – for us who name the name of Christ there is one true celebrity in this universe = our Lord and Saviour, the member of the triune God, Jesus Christ, son of man AND Son of God 🙏

  273. Jean says:

    Bill Stevenson is a convicted felon and came out with the allegation while writing a book. He is an admitted Trump supporter.

    Why would you believe him over Jill Biden? What proof, evidence or insight do you have?

    You are once again spreading gossip. It’s your right. The Bible speaks against it.

  274. Em says:

    Ahh, Jill was married to criminal.. well that explains everything, doesn’t it!

  275. Em says:

    Jean, i much appreciate your looking out for my spiritual welfare, BTW

  276. Nancy Holmes says:

    WOOHOO MLD at 12:52!! I’ve got the Brooklyn Bridge for sale, if you’re interested…

  277. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Nancy, I don’t need the Brooklyn Bridge – I live in God’s country, the home of the London Bridge.

  278. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    What felony was Bill Stevenson convicted of?

  279. Em says:

    MLD, I’ve been looking and cannot find anything, but Jean wouldn’t lie or gossip cuz God’s against that 🙆

  280. Everstudy says:

    “Can we just be honest about this? There will be no unity. Nobody who calls for it actually wants it. Unity requires some deeper sense of commonality and purpose, and we simply don’t have that in this country.”

    Copied from someone I follow on Twitter

  281. Em says:

    AND Melania IS very educated, successful business woman and fluent in several languages as are many Europeans

    I’ll buy the bridge if it’s under one dollar

  282. Just so everybody is clear, the Predidenr Elect ia nowhere near the White House. There is still a long way to go before this is over.

    I am very surprised at the lack of any blowback on the right.

  283. Em says:

    A country without commonality and purpose? That doesn’t bode well…. But all the good Californians are moving inland, i hear, so maybe fly over country can form a new nation conceived in liberty…….

    enough! I’ll go look for something constructive to do… rake leaves or something…..

  284. Nancy Holmes says:

    Em and MLD

    For your consideration:


  285. Em says:

    Thanks, Nancy. Snopes is usually pretty reliable…..

    Just cuz we read it doesn’t make it true, i guess. …

  286. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Nancy, you need to reread – snopes does not say that she does not speak multiple languages – it just says they don’t see the evidence.

    I still speak yiddish pretty good (if anyone actually speak it eell) but outside my family I have not left much evidence behind.

    The big thing is that BOC said she was lacking as a person because she still has an accent.

  287. Jean says:

    “Jean wouldn’t lie or gossip cuz God’s against that”

    I’m not perfect, by any means, but affirm your statement.

  288. Anon says:


    I can’t believe you’re spreading this about Jill Biden.

    Wasn’t it you and the other Trumpies on here who kept telling us that “the Pres0\ a president who’s lied 20,000+ times (documented — look it up).

    Look for the log…

  289. Anon says:

    Paragraph 2 again:

    Wasn’t it you and the other Trumpies on here who kept bleating that the Presidency isn’t a pulpit” to excuse Cheeto Jesus from all his immorality?? He lied over 20,000 times (look it

  290. Jean says:

    There’s a reason why James wrote:

    “And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell.”

  291. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    So did I miss the Stevenson felony or was that another 8th commandment violation?

  292. Em says:

    Jean @3:04, does that include fingers? 😇

    Too cold to rake leaves, but i did scrub bathroom floor –

  293. Em says:

    Anon, not me, but her first husband… However, since ibelieved him i did quote him. … So…..

  294. Em says:

    Oh, Anon, how did you comclude i was a “trumpie?” Because i don’t think Biden is presidential? LOL

  295. Bride of Christ says:

    MLD..that isn’t true about Melanie Trump. She can say “some words” in 7 languages. She is not fluent in seven languages. For heaven’s sake, she isn’t even fluent in English , and she’s lived here for years! As I said, I have a Cross Cultural Language and Academic Specialist degree. Melanie is about an ESL level 5, less than the language proficiency of a third grader. Glad to know that you think that any comment a woman makes about another woman is “catty”. I’m afraid it won’t stop me from making comments, though, especially about a subject that I have a Masters degree and years of experience in.

  296. Jean says:

    One of the challenges, should Trump attempt to overthrow the election, is that he has alienated a large segment of the military. I think there is little to no chance that the Defense Secretary or Joint Chiefs would support an armed intervention in support of Trump.

    I have no idea what the Secret Service believes, but having been drafted into some of the Covid theatrics of the last 30 days, I wouldn’t be surprised if they declined to offer armed resistance to the will of the American people.

  297. Jean says:

    Bride of Christ,

    I have no doubt that Mrs. Trump is fluent in the 7 love languages.

  298. Jean says:

    ” ‘If Republicans don’t challenge and change the U.S. election system, there will never be another Republican president elected again,’ Graham said Sunday on Fox News.”

    I thought it was the Democrats who want to change the election system.

    Maybe the GOP would be safe if the nation repealed women’s suffrage and reserved voting to males who own real estate worth at least $?? What do you think a good threshold would be? 5 figures; 6 figures, 7, 8 or 9?

    Helen Ready wouldn’t be pleased, but what the heck.

  299. Bride of Christ says:

    MLD, you claimed that I said that Melania,Trump is lacking g as a person because she has an accent. Stop putting words in my mouth, for heavens sake. It us just plain wrong, so stop it. One can have an accent and still be an excellent , fluent speaker of English! I though you were more educated, but I guess I will have to spell it all out for you. – her syntax, word usage, and grammar are at the level of your average second grade English language learner. I should know, I’ve spent half my life working with second language learners in the schools.

  300. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    BOC – you are the distorter – only said she speaks 7 not that she was fluent. I never said that, so reconsider your accusations.

  301. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    As I said earlier, we have 38 days of the Gore rule to play with.
    If the election is not tainted then Biden is a hero with no cloud and Trump will be proven wrong and

  302. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Jean brings a totally false message – hell he is actually lying. Trump has never said he will not leave office.

    Too many lies on the Lord’s day.

  303. Bride of Christ says:

    MLD , You put words in my mouth that were not true. I did not, in fact, say what you said I did. Not only did I not say what you say what I did, but as an ESL professional, I know better, and I would never think that a person was a diminished person because of an “accent”. That accusation, us personal to me, because I have spent much if my life working with immigrant children. You post without thinking, without restraint and discernment.

  304. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    BOC, perhaps she has a speech disability – but you didn’t allow for that just suggesting she is lazy and you could fix her.
    However it came out, you meant it as an insult.

  305. Nancy Holmes says:

    Question to all–is MLD actually a troll? He is so endlessly unpleasant and argumentative!! Why do we even respond to him–maybe if we didn’t he would go away.

    Michael–if I am wrong for saying this, I will TRY to repent–but I am getting exasperated with some of the stubborn naysayers who continually sound off here. I guess I will try some of that fruit of the Holy Spirit–patience. But it sure is getting tried!!

  306. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Nancy, I don’t hate Trump nor his wife – so what I say is a foreign language to you.

  307. Jean says:


    “maybe if we didn’t he would go away.”

    That’s hard to say. But it at a minimum will redeem a lot of your time.

  308. Bride of Christ says:

    Did Lindsay Graham really say that? That is beyond shocking. I have been saying for the last 1O years that the only way Republicans will win an election is by distorting facts, or by stopping people from voting. It sounds as if Lindsay Graham has thought of another way…by changing the constitution and the Bill of Rights. I won’t asleep well tonight.

  309. Em says:

    I thought Jean was the troll? ? ?
    MLD has been posting here forever….
    The one embarrassing thing on this thread is the hostiluty… Disagreeable disagreements…. Must be the uncertain times, everyone looking for something honest and solid – on the devil’s world?

  310. Jean says:

    So Em,

    If I challenge the unsubstantiated accusations and gossip you get from “lots of smart retired people up here in these mountains”, I am a troll?

  311. Em says:

    Twas a joke, Jean .. Twas said in jest…. Sorry
    Your responses don’t bother me (even when you’re wrong. 😁)

  312. Bride of Christ says:

    President Trump was on the golf course this weekend, and President elect Biden and his wife went to church. Make your own application.

  313. Jim says:

    PhxP continues to deliver…

  314. Jean says:

    “That’s why to me — that’s why to me I think it was so important early on to say to the president, if your base is for not conceding is that there was voter fraud then show us. Show us.

    “Because if you can’t show us, we can’t do this. We can’t back you blindly without evidence. And that’s why I said what I said on Wednesday morning and on Thursday night. And I’m hoping that more Republicans move in the direction of saying, not that we don’t support the president, he’s been a friend of mine for 20 year, but friendship doesn’t mean that you’re blind. Friendship means that you will listen to somebody, give them their opportunity, and if they don’t come forward with the — with the proof, then it’s time to move on.”

    Chris Christie, ABC This Week, 11/8/2020

  315. Everstudy says:

    “I’ll never understand how someone with so much money who lived in America for as long as Melania never learned how to speak proper English. I am an ESL, or second language acquisition teacher, and I know that there are free classes everywhere in the U.S to help foreigners assimilate and learn our language properly.”

    I’ll let my neighbor who’s been here for 20 years that you recommend classes for him since, in my opinion, he doesn’t speak proper English quite yet.

  316. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Back to Nancy at 4:51 yesterday. I was not being negative or argumentative. In fact I was the only one making positive comments.
    1.) Give Trump the same consideration to investigate the election results we gave Gore for 5 weeks 20 yrs ago.
    2.) Don’t beat up Mrs. Trump because of her language skills.
    3.) Don’t falsely accuse Jill Biden’s ex of being a convicted felon if it is not true.

  317. CM says:

    Leave to that so-called “Christian” VP Pence to give credit to his Orange God where NONE is deserved:


    Except these inconvenient facts:

    – Pfizer was not part of Operation Warp Speed
    – Pfizer took no government money
    – Trump has nothing to do with this
    – neither did Pence.

    But I am sure all the MAGA-zombies (or at least ones who are not anti-vaxxers) will eat up Pence’s excrement like they do Trump’s.

  318. Everstudy says:

    “so called “Christian”…” ?

    Really? Are we doing that to those you disagree with politically?


  319. CM says:

    Here is an interesting article on what transpired this election cycle:


  320. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    CM, Trump did do what was right – he had government stay out of Pfizer’s way.
    A Biden admin would go back to the previous rules of at least 3 yrs locked in an FDA time tunnel.

  321. Nancy Holmes says:


    My loving suggestion: don’t feed the troll…

  322. Em says:

    So called Christian? Orange god? ….. Worried?
    I was there 20 years ago when Bush jr. was refused the interim security briefings normally given to incoming administrations by the outgoing Clinton administration. He got one last hurry up briefing just before his inauguration…
    For the record – Even though Bush seemed like a good guy, i never thought he had the qualities of strength needed for the Presidency…. We seem to confuse nice with strength of character… strange times….

  323. CM says:


    Agreed. But who was bragging about Operation Warp Speed and patting himself on the back for all that? Who is taking credit for this?

    One of the things I always appreciated about many Republican Presidents was their insistence that they weren’t directly responsible for the lives and successes of Americans, it was Americans themselves. The Government was there in many cases as an emergency relief agency, not a primary agency. People should not be dependent on it.

    Trump has run counter to that narrative, setting himself up as the reason for all. His economy. He, the fictional reason for people being allowed to say “Christmas” publicly again (one of the dumbest assertions, political or non, of all time.) Most importantly, as a guide on protections from COVID-19.

    Your Orange god takes credit for everything under the sun, whether he had anything to do with it or not. He hogs the glory for the work and success OTHERS do all the time. As Trump is finding out, “Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.”

  324. Everstudy says:



    But with your last comment, it seems the transformation of this blog is complete. You, Jean, BOC, and now Nancy have filled it to overflowing with your hateful venom, and removed any semblance of faith. I used to come here for encouragement, to see Christians vigorously debate their points of view, and while it could get a little out of hand sometimes, I never sensed an ounce of the pure hatred that you have exhibited. I feel bad, because I know the work that Michael has put into this blog, and the heart he has for the hurting and abused, but now all I read is the clanking of cymbals. Every time you write something about God’s grace and mercy, about the work of God, I’ll remember your political posts, and I’ll know that you don’t really mean what you’re writing when you mention the love of God.

    This sucks….

  325. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Nancy plays the fascist on the blog trying to shut down conversation – but I did find her alter ego who would like to do it on a larger scale.


  326. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    CM, @ 9:42 you should have just stopped at “agreed”

  327. Em says:

    Dr. Duane, thank you and your reference is, most likely, correct. Howver, I’ve been hearing some not so good things about our CIA lately, also….

    Nancy a facist? Uhhhh ? ? ?

  328. josh hamrick says:

    Threads like this warm the soul. I love when we show the world how Christians can lead the way in treating each other kindly in spite of our differences.

  329. Michael says:

    I’ve asked repeatedly for some sort of decency in these threads.
    To no avail.
    This is who we are now…and it’s above my pay scale to know how to fix it.

  330. Jean says:

    Defense Secretary Mark Esper was terminated today by Trump.

    If you look at the current Administration appointees who have been terminated or forced to resign (and there have been a lot of them, and a sizeable number from the military branch), the common thread appears to be their prioritization of their oath of office over the personal loyalty and obedience demanded by the President.

    Typically, when someone is fired or forced to resign, the reputation of the individual is impaired. However, in the case of this Administration, it is conceivable that history may remember such individuals as men of integrity, courage and faithful service to the nation, whereas the ones who were not fired or forced to resign, but who stayed on the ship, men like William Barr or Mark Meadows, may be remembered quite differently.

  331. Em says:

    Michael, maybe it is hormonal….. Not just us ladies that have a problem with that… LOL

    At least at a distance everyone’s teeth are safe 😁

  332. Dan from Georgia says:

    This is precisely why I don’t talk politics (and now medicine apparently) with people. NO ONE KNOWS WHEN TO KNOCK IT OFF!!!!!

  333. Nancy Holmes says:


    Thanks for your reasonable doubts–I appreciate that and you.

  334. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Let’s be loving to our enemy and not object to any recounts or challenges.

  335. Michael says:

    My unhinged critic popped up in my email again.
    I’ve always wondered why people get obsessed with screaming things no one can hear instead of moving on…

    For his benefit I will state again…I am generally opposed to abortion…completely opposed to it as a form of birth control.
    At this juncture in our history I think the old formula of “safe, legal, and rare” takes in most of the complexities around this issue.

  336. Michael says:


    I welcome recounts and answered challenges.
    They are necessary to go forward…although they probably won’t be accepted either.

  337. Em. From my memory, there was no issue with the Clinton/Bush handover. Bush White House staff complained about being denied access to White House until 12:00 PM…sharp. And some computers had hardrives removed. I would not lose sleep over petty insults between party hacks.

  338. Bride of Christ says:

    Everstudy Please don’t pretend that Christians on the right say only kind things about Democrats; that’s completely disingenuous. I attended an evangelical church for 30 years, the largest in southern California. The current head of this huge evangelical church system stood at his pulpit in my church and said that public schools were ” filled with the spirit of the anti Christ” ( I’m a teacher so that stung) and I never forgot those words. This same pastor said the Catholic church was the harlot ( virgin Mary worshipping cult) who rides the beast in Revelations. What an awful thing to say about Catholics! This was a pastor saying these things at a Sunday service. He also said that depressed housewives who took prescribed medications shouldn’t be taking them because they weren’t really depressed they were in sin. When it’s your side saying something harsh it you think its righteous anger, but if anyone else does it it’s “un Christian.” Trump himself had been the most hateful person ever elected to office. He’s mocked the disabled, called women unthinkable names, insulted American war heroes and soldiers and basically lowered the bar of American political discourse To the lowest level in modern history. I think Trump supporting lost the right to rake the high road and l judge others statements as divisive a long time ago.
    By the way, I still believe that Melanie Trump is a horrible role model for American girls and young women. My two adult daughters agree.

    I can’t even repeat to you what members if this church used to say about Obama. I attended this church h all 8 years that Barak Obama was president.

  339. Jean says:

    Sen. Ben Sasse (R-Neb.) congratulated Biden, calling him the “next president.”

    “Melissa and I congratulate the next president, Joe Biden, and the next vice president, Kamala Harris,” Sasse said in a statement Sunday to the Omaha World-Herald. “Today in our house we pray for both President Trump and President-Elect Biden, that both would be wise in the execution of their respective duties during this important time in our nation.”

    This conservative has a reputation of integrity and placing country over party in the exercise of his office.

  340. Everstudy says:


    ” that Christians on the right say only kind things about Democrats…”

    I’m not talking about Christians on the right… or the left… or Trump… or Biden. I’m talking about THIS blog… about THIS community. I’m talking about the hate I’ve seen here, especially the last few months and weeks. What others do elsewhere is irrelevant. The hate towards people in this community by others in this community is what kills me.

  341. Nancy Holmes says:

    Everstudy–I’m just not seeing the hatred that you speak of. Even when I think some of the others who comment are being unnecessarily “unpleasant” and “argumentative.” I did not consider them hateful, just irritating. Good grief, brother (or sister) in Christ–cut the drama…

  342. Everstudy says:


    Fine, I’ll just leave

  343. Jean says:

    CM was correct regarding Pfizer.

    “Pfizer, unlike its competitors, did not join Operation Warp Speed, the government initiative designed to erase the financial risk of vaccine and therapeutics development by providing funding to companies and helping coordinate the trials. Instead, Pfizer plowed $2 billion of its own money into the project, a partnership with German biotech firm BioNTech, and then struck a $1.95 billion contract with the U.S. government to provide 100 million doses, contingent on the vaccine’s effectiveness.

    “In an interview with the New York Times, Kathrin Jansen, a senior vice president at Pfizer and head of its vaccine research and development, sought to distance the company from the initiative and presidential politics.

    “We were never part of the Warp Speed,” she said.

    “We have never taken any money from the U.S. government, or from anyone.”

  344. Nancy Holmes says:


    Fine…!! I am a firm believer in Free Will.

  345. Dread says:


    Hate here on this blog? No. Sharp contention is just family conflict. This blog couldn’t survive Thanksgiving in my family.

    Child’s play.

    We get testy. Blogs are useful for such.

    Michael calls for civility so we watch his posts to see what that looks like and we go on calling each other morons and tools of satan. Normal reformation diatribes without the rack and pyre.

  346. Bride of Christ says:

    This posting is about the election… I have already called for Christians to pray for Trump, and our country. Many of the longtime Trump supporting posters here have often said very harsh things here. I have heard homosexuals called ” perverts” multiple times I also have seen women who have had abortions called “baby killers”. My views on abortion are exactly like Michael’s and I do believe that homosexuals are confused. However, I am personally friends with two Christian couples who have had children who as adults pronounced themselves gay. My friends are loving parents, good Christian and Bible teachers. Calling their sons and daughters ” perverts” is cruel. They are Christian children and it is name calling. Calling a Christian woman who had an abortion a ” baby killer” is also name calling. Perhaps I shouldn’t have called Melania Trump a ” good digger” because that is name calling also, and I repent of it. My husband is the one who calls her that frequently, ( it’s a name coined by men by the way). truly, in all fairness, we should stop allowing names like “pervert” or “baby killer” to be posted here, either.

  347. Jean says:

    This is what hate looks like. How to place the physical safety of your neighbor at risk. How to shape a run off election.

    “The management of Georgia elections has become an embarrassment for our state. Georgians are outraged, and rightly so. We have been clear from the beginning: every legal vote cast should be counted. Any illegal vote must not. And there must be transparency and uniformity in the counting process. This isn’t hard. This isn’t partisan. This is American. We believe when there are failures, they need to be called out — even when it’s in your own party. There have been too many failures in Georgia elections this year and the most recent election has shined a national light on the problems. While blame certainly lies elsewhere as well, the buck ultimately stops with the Secretary of State. The mismanagement and lack of transparency from the Secretary of State is unacceptable. Honest elections are paramount to the foundation of our democracy. The Secretary of State has failed to deliver honest and transparent elections. He has failed the people of Georgia, and he should step down immediately.”

    Joint Statement from Senators David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler, 11/9/20

  348. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Jean – I don’t know how this puts neighbor at risk? Your side has done 100% of the rioting the past 6 months. Today we have 70 million pissed off Republicans who took to the streets – and went to work this morning – not following the Democrat model of mob rule.

  349. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Bride – we need to get the racists here to stop name calling. Each of those who refer to Trump by his skin color are racists.

  350. Duane Arnold says:


    “We get testy. Blogs are useful for such.”

    Sorry to have to disagree with you. The threads are increasingly not testy, but all too often toxic and increasingly unhealthy. The “crazy uncle” routines of both the right and the left on the threads have lost their claim to be humorous. They are now simply hateful with comments made to be hurtful to other individuals. It has gone far from “child’s play”…

  351. Jim says:


    My beloved PhxP has become completely toxic. I can’t read this idolatrous shit and believe with all of my heart that Michael should shut all political “discourse” down.

    PhxP is now just another online skidmark.

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