Gayle Erwin and the Gospel For Asia Disclosures
In that letter, Erwin summarily dismissed those concerns as being “without foundation” and stated that the board considered the matter closed.
This “report” devastated many who were hoping for righteousness and appeared to be nothing more than a callous cover up of the sort we’ve seen too many times.
Yesterday, Dec 2, 2015, over eight months later, Erwin chose to disclose the rest of the story.
In that eight months myself, (along with Warren Throckmorton and others), worked tirelessly to bring light and accountability to this situation.
Now, we have at least partially, achieved that.
All those articles we wrote to that end are now being characterized as “PP attacks”.
The documents released show that (at least in the case of the GFA board actions) that we were right in our perception of that letter.
The documents also show that Erwin was coerced into that letter by K.P. Yohannan and the board.
We had no way of knowing that as neither myself, nor Throckmorton to my knowledge, nor the GFA Diaspora, were told that truth by Gayle Erwin until recent days.
Therefore, I had no option but to deal with the evidence we had and continue to advocate for those who were victims and to try to inform those who may become victims in the future.
That is why we’re here and I make no apology for that.
The documents also show that Gayle Erwin did a heroic and God honoring work in trying to bring a corrupt organization to repentance.
For that, he should be commended and honored.
The documents also show (upon initial inspection) that every concern raised by Warren Throckmorton, myself, and others was grounded in some measure of truth.
I would remind the reader that the veracity of these reports were questioned as late as two weeks ago by former GFA board member Skip Heitzig in an email to an concerned giver.
I would also remind the reader that a charity is a public trust, not a private business.
The public, which has given millions to Gospel For Asia in the last eight months deserved to know then what we know now.
I believe that without the consistent coverage of this issue,(especially by the noble Throckmorton), we still wouldn’t know.
Now, many have asked if I will repent of calling Gayle Erwin a hireling.
Yes.
I repent of that and ask his forgiveness.
I did not know, nor could I know, that he was coerced into this evil.
The original letter was the work of a hireling, but it was produced under duress.
He chose not to reveal that truth for eight months.
Erwins repentance and revelations of the truth show a godly heart and character that we can only hope will be replicated by everyone involved in this debacle.
We are overjoyed and blessed at what he has done for the Gospel and truth in the last 48 hours.
Now, perhaps we can begin to deal with the issues of corruption in Gospel For Asia that he documented instead of deflecting shame on the messenger…
AMEN! We are amazed and tremendously blessed by Gayle Erwin’s recent actions. We are ex-GFA staff. Gayle was used and abused, but he fought the good fight against the craziness as he could, being a board member for over 30 years. The staff were not able to speak to KP as he did without suffering extreme consequences and/or firing. Although he is not perfect as non of us are perfect, Mr. Erwin is truly a man who has now taken a very bold stand against the evil that has been perpetrated by KP and the leadership. May God protect him and bless him for doing this!
Also, thank you, Michael, for your part in helping to bring the truth out. We are very grateful to you, Warren Throckmorton, and JD and the Diaspora group for all that was involved in getting to this point. Although we know it is not over by a long shot, this is an enormous step in the right direction.
LJ,
You are more than welcome.
This is enormous…especially for those of us who have fought in these wars for a long time.
May we all see righteousness prevail in this matter.
Well, since I just wrote on the other thread, after having just read this response of yours, I just want to say that your response looks good to me. While I was one that did feel at the time that the hireling label was a bit premature, I understand where it came from. I also believe you could well be right – without you and Throckmorton hammering on this story, the results could well be different. It IS sad, as you’ve noted before, that it takes bloggers to help bring to light what others should be bringing to light.
I have known Gayle for many years. I was incensed at your characterization of him as a hireling, and at the subsequent ignorant piling-on by so many on this board. It revealed to me that, for many here, whatever Michael says is the honest-to-God truth. Of course, that is NOT the truth. In so many instances here, when there is the scent of blood in the water, the sharks attack without patience, without discretion. I withheld my thoughts at the time, as I believed that the truth about Gayle would emerge. He IS a man of character, and a man who walks the talk.
Michael, I do commend you for your honesty and your humility, and for owning your mistakes. I believe that has been true of you all along. And, a thanks to you for your dogged determination in finding the truth.
Chris,
This ain’t my first rodeo.
This situation bore all the earmarks of what I’ve watched happen time and time again.
You will note that while some people have jumped on the blog to take a shot at me, they haven’t said a word about the main event.
I’ve never hidden from anyone and my name is on everything I write.
I’m very easy to correspond with.
I would have been very grateful and very willing to tell the whole truth many moons ago…
“All those articles we wrote to that end are now being characterized as “PP attacks”.”
things often get hashed out here by the commenters to Michael’s posts – there’s an atmosphere of sitting around the table and opining freely – a validation of us “not-so-important” parts of the Body – i hope that this frank search for facts and truth never stops … even if civility sometimes gives way to impatient and premature outrage … even if sometimes Michael has to intervene (he does this, in case you haven’t noticed)
the PP is a good thing – a very good work that is pleasing to God
DavidM,
In defense of those who comment here…what evidence did anyone here have until yesterday that Erwin was a man of character?
He himself has repented of that letter…meaning that it needed to be repented of.
Are people who are used to sin being covered up to be faulted when they believe they are seeing it again?
I’ll be blunt.
We have a blockbuster bin of documents that show incredible corruption of an organization that has taken millions of dollars from the people of God and kept it’s own employees under cult like bondage…and some want to focus on me and my readers…who were simply addressing the information publicly available.
I simply don’t understand that.
Thank you, Em.
I have allowed the critics their say as well.
DavidM @5, it saddens me that you aren’t “incensed” about the millions of extra dollars that GFA fleeced off gullible donors during Gayle Erwin’s 8 months of silence. That money could have been used for real ministry, instead of building up KP’s little fiefdom.
Strong words have been said about Mr. Erwin on this blog, but they were just words. I am far more upset about the money stolen that was promised to widows and orphans, that was promised for evangelism. I am angered about the lie of 100% that GFA foisted on us who wanted to see the lost reached.
That is the shame that Gayle Erwin must live with, for he was one of the top leaders at GFA. I am thankful that he has repented of his part in this travesty.
apparently, KPY is as abusive of his friends and associates as his is of his ’employees.’ I’d hate to be one of his enemies.
People are dancing around the word “hireling”. PP, you are being gracious. I wonder why I’m not seeing words like “scam”, “criminal”, etc. (No, I’m not jumping the gun. I’ve directed ministry in India and this stinks to high heaven!)
Michael @ 6:
Indeed – you always have struck me as the kind of guy that’s very upfront and “in the light” and easy to correspond with. You also are willing to re-examine when needed, which is something that far too many won’t do. In general, I have always found you to be relatively balanced. Your love for the Body is apparent! 🙂
As I’ve stated I believed at the time that the hireling label seemed premature (since Gayle had just recently stepped down from the board and everything was just really hitting, I felt we needed to wait a while). There is part of me that definitely understands why Gayle wanted to wait a little while before releasing reports and correspondence (both legal and ethical – perhaps he wanted to give them time to evaluate and to come clean on their own).
But anyone that would pile on you with an air of “see, you were an idiot” – isn’t valid either. You were operating with the info you had, and considering Gayle was on the board with Skip (and we all know how much you love Skip), it was easy to lump everyone together, especially when as you alluded to – you’ve seen this kind of stuff so much before.
I do think going forward that we all need to be more careful in what we say regarding others that claim to be our brothers. A degree of humility in understanding that we might not have all the info is always wise.
Blessings to you brother – been praying for you and Miss Kitty. 🙂
Thank you, Chris.
Miss Kitty is doing well and hopefully I will be soon. 🙂
I must say it was alarming to read Gayle’s accounts of what “his eminence” is like behind the scenes. It seems brother KP has become a religious megalomaniac. Michael, I appreciate your humility in this post. There are still many questions to be answered… Where has Skip been on this whole thing? As David Carroll and John Beers denied any wrongdoing or ring kissing directly to many Calvary pastors (myself included)… were they lying, or simply repeating what they were told? I find it hard to believe that they were unaware of the truth of the diaspora accusations, the ring kissing, as well as the vast financial misdeeds. Evidently at least David was aware of the initial report that Gayle submitted. There are many burning britches.
It comes down to a simple equation – and the readers here are fairly divided along two lines. (In my 7+ years of participation and observation)
For some, a guy who has ministered for 30 years and maintained a good reputation (and of course avoided the many scandals that other ministry leaders are guilty of) is worthy of at least hesitation before getting the tar and feathers. I’ll admit, when I first read his non-response, dismissal response months ago, I was deeply disappointed and confused. Did not sound like him. Could there be something else?
Later I heard that our men were going to participate in a mens retreat with a couple other Calvarys and Irwin had been chosen to be the speaker – I thought seriously about jumping in as “Moses” and cancelling our participation. Even though our church did not hire him, and I don’t even go on this retreat – (and the guys who do, like it).
So I am grateful I waited and once he resigned from the Board I was at peace in not going ballistic on Irwin with a bunch of men at our church who don’t even know anything about this (We don’t support GFA). I REALLY would feel like an idiot now, and rightfully so – (and it would be too late to reschedule our participation).
For others, those same 30 years in Calvary Chapel speak of guilt first and foremost. Guilt by association. Any guy that is old-school Calvary is either secretly a rogue or certainly an enabler of the other rogues. So naturally at first opportunity the worst is assumed, expected, and commented upon. It is what it is and I have had the worst assumed about me and our church on a pack of lies (not from Michael in any way) because that’s just what people often do. They pick sides. Sometimes they support the rogues and adulterers against all that is proper and holy as a follower of Christ. They are as wrong as the ones who assume the worst too quickly.
(The same is happening concerning Saeed in some circles – a rush to assume the worst without a pause to say “Wait, this does not make sense”)
EricL I AM saddened and incensed by the corruption and deception and abuse of KP and GFA. I never said that I wasn’t.
To label someone “hireling” is a serious charge and goes well beyond someone sinning or displaying poor judgment. It conveys the idea that a person is living a lie, in it for the money, a wolf in sheep’s clothing, if you will. So, when that label was slapped on Gayle based on what people read on this blog, i was incensed then because I know that Gayle is not a hireling. I did not know the facts of the investigation into GFA. In fact, I knew very little, probably about as much as most anyone here, other than Michael. So, I didn’t want to jump into the fray. But I felt that hireling was much too strong a word for Gayle.
A few years ago, I wrote a letter to the editor of a major newspaper regarding a story they ran. Stupidly, my occupation and more were attached to my name (it was an online letter). I immediately took it down and even admitted that the letter was written in haste, with lots of emotion at play. Well, someone who read my letter sent a letter to my church, calling me a false prophet and worse. I know that I am not a false prophet, but I had done something irresponsible, so I understood why he said that. I wrote him back and we dialogued a few times. In a similar way, I can see why he was called a hireling. But when so many assented to that, I felt it was judgmental and unfair.
When Tullian was hired by Willow Creek, I sent off an angry letter to the pastor of Willow Creek, calling into question his wisdom and judgment, accusing him of being opportunistic, and concluding that TUllian’s pedigree was the primary reason. To my astonishment, the pastor replied in a gracious and humble way, and let me see some of the compelling reasons as to why he had made that decision. I was able to see that there was much more at play than met the eye.
So, yes, Gayle was in the wrong, no doubt. And I am glad for his repentance and for doing the right thing.
Michael, I was not trying to focus on you and your readers. I see the larger issue, and you no doubt have a bin of documentation. It bothered me to see the word hireling so quickly and carelessly tossed around.
Can anybody in the know please tell me the connection between Gospel for Asia and Gospel for Asia Australia?
I’m going to try this one more time, then I’ll obey my cardiologist.
The GFA Diaspora had the testimonies of more than 100 people claiming abuse and corruption on the part of GFA.
The only response from GFA was an abrupt and cold dismissal in the form of a letter signed by Gayle Erwin on behalf of the board.
The choice to be made was not between a long time Calvary Chapel speaker and the Diaspora, but between Gayle Erwin representing GFA and the claims of the Diaspora.
I believed the Diaspora.
This wasn’t Calvary Chapel against the Phoenix Preacher, but as I have stated above.
None of my readers, nor myself, affixed his name to that document.
We believed he had written what he signed and reacted accordingly.
I would have reacted the same way if the signatory had been a Presbyterian or a Reformed Baptist.
I would have used the exact same terms, as well.
Now the messenger is not the evil blogger, but one of Calvary’s own.
I wonder if he will be subjected to what I have been for trying to tell the truth.
Ted,
To my knowledge, it’s just another satellite office for the main charity.
Thanks Michael. In behaviour I’d agree. The issue is that they are claiming that they are independent from GFA and do not send donations to GFA, and therefore nothing need change here in Australia. This is technically correct – form over substance. I was therefore wondering whether anybody knew how the control and direction from GFA actually worked.
Ted,
That’s incredible.
At this juncture I’m not sure any of us have a handle on how this whole mess works together.
Yep, constraint required yesterday when I was told that.
I was hoping that a former senior insider can give us clue as to how the connection actually works in practice. K.P. is on the NZ board, but not, at least on paper, in Australia.
“I was therefore wondering whether anybody knew how the control and direction from GFA actually worked.”
Two letters – K.P.
That’s all I’ve got. 🙂
@23
Hi Ted. Can you post more info on what and how this came about?
@22
Michael, Erwin is a pretty sad part of this story. He should be the object of compassion as another person who’s life is at least being harmed, if not destroyed by KP. A lot of people connected to CC will be overwhelmed with a desire for this all to just go away. It’s not going away. It’s getting worse.
We do not have a final investigative report, there’s been no investigation. The scene is not secure. The authorities have not even shown up yet to establish a parameter.
What we do have is a situation like this….”And Joshua said unto Achan, My son, give, I pray thee, glory to the LORD God of Israel, and make confession unto him; and tell me now what thou hast done; hide it not from me…..”
Mr. Erwin now appears to be in the process of disclosure about what he knows of what some might consider a PTL Scandal, times 100. He needs some time to decide what role he will play in the remaining portion of his career. I hope the best for him.
-Hold the apologies for now.
-This is likely to be an unhappy emotional roller coaster for CC.
Hi Nathan, you have a very interesting take on this. I’m curious as to why you think that CC will be harmed in any way with all that has happened? Most folks who are familiar with CC realize what a spineless butt wipe Skip is so no surprise that he himself is refraining from saying anything about this. Gayle while stepping up will still have to justify waiting 8 mos. to come forward and Damian is too well liked for anyone to throw dung on him so I’m guessing that CC will come out smelling like a rose, again…
“…deflecting shame on the messenger…”
From my own experience it is a standard Calvary Chapel tactic when confronted.
And of course the ubiquitous follow up, “If you are unhappy with how we do things here, perhaps you should go and start your own church.”
Michael you stood strong and pushed hard on the first domino and now the line is flowing along and we are learning more as each week passes.
You can sit back and get that much needed rest now, you did your job/calling well.
May every cell and fiber of your being be healed in the name of Jesus and may you enjoy decades in service of our King here.
Gail has shown incredible integrity and deserves our respect today not our outrage.
surfer51,
Thank you for all of that…truly.
Out of a long fondness for Gayle Erwin, I read the letters he wrote. What a marvelous human being, God bless him.
One small quibble: in his complaint about KPY imposing an “Orthodox overlay” on his church Gayle states that the Orthodox ecclesiastical rank of Metropolitan equates to the RCC Pope. Not true, there is no EO equivalent of a pope. A metropolitan is simply an archbishop.
Other than that small point, good job Mr. Erwin!
I did notice that Mr. Erwin said that Orthodoxy is a failed system but I still love him anyway.
@29 – I thought a Roman Catholic Archbishop would be subject to the pope. KP answers to no one and has ultimate authority in all matters. That’s why people equate him to the pope.
Now, I have to admit I haven’t read through all the documentation yet but I’m really confused. Gayle is being made out to be a hero now. That’s great and wonderful if he is standing for truth now but this has the aroma of a Politician who chances their stance based on the constituency of their voter base. Its like Hilary Clinton saying, I voted against the war before I voted for it. All of this talk about giving Gayle Erwin the benefit of the doubt because he has 30 years of scandal free ministry makes no sense. If this is the case, why isn’t Steve Wright giving K.P. the benefit of the doubt as well. To me the only reason K.P. is getting such a bad rap now is because the truth is finally being exposed by folks like Warren and Michael. This may be the only reason Gayle is coming out now as well. Otherwise we would be encouraged to give veteran K.P the benefit of the doubt over the diaspora. This gets to the heart of this type of non-accountable leadership that seems to be the hallmark of CC. I don’t give anyone the benefit of the doubt that participates in a system that has no accountability. That makes no sense at all.
Andrew,
From the documentation put forth from Gayle, you can see that he agreed with many of the Diaspora’s claims before his “official” report was put forth saying otherwise. He was also confronting K.P. for at least the past year trying to effect change. Also, from the ECFA report, it can be seen that the GFA board was kept in the dark as to many of the financial indiscretions. Now it can be argued that the board should have been proactive in seeking more information in the first place, but at the very least, they weren’t knowingly rubber stamping improprieties. Erwin’s one big mistake in this was succumbing to the pressure to rewrite the Diaspora report to K.P.’s and GFA’s liking. And of this he repented. It does appear that he was trying to bring accountability to K.P. and GFA and resigned when he saw that he could not.
As to the difference between Gayle and K.P., the only wrongdoing we know of Gayle was writing the false report (and then waiting 8 months to tell the truth – but even with that he told the truth, unlike most of these other scandals where the guilty never tell or even admit to the truth). With K.P. we have mountains-worth of documented and alleged wrongdoing. Plus no significant confession on any of them. The difference between Gayle and K.P. at this point is night and day.
Weary Traveler,
I think the catch here is that by name and appearance, the Believer’s Church leadership structure looks more like Orthodox. However, in practice, K.P. functions more like a Pope. So maybe Gayle didn’t explain it perfectly, but still was right about a lot of it.
Kevin,
I couldn’t agree more. My only point is that I don’t think we should be giving ANYONE the benefit of the doubt. Not that we are to jump to conclusion to accuse but rather we should have the mentality of accountability and fairness. I still wonder if Gayle would have ever come clean if it wasn’t for Michael or Warren and for this I thank them for their service. Now only if CC as a system would institute church membership so the voiceless would have a voice and true accountability would happen.
For myself, I would rather be fooled a few times, maybe even betrayed, than to develop a hard crust of cynicism.
Hmmm. That’s an interesting thought Xenia.
I will say, my cynicism crust is rather thick.
Love believes all things. I think that is what Xenia is really saying. She will keep loving…
The only thing that keeps me from moving from deep cynicism to apostasy is knowing Jesus and knowing that some will love and believe people who aren’t ordained club members.
That was pretty cynical in and of itself, right?
Josh,
This morning I’m beyond cynical…beyond even angry.
I’ll probably do the right thing and stay offline.
Maybe.
There’s good stuff happening, bud. You wrote a great TGIF. Enjoy the day!
nathan,
Sorry I missed your comment…I was on the spit elsewhere.
There is no monolithic entity that is Calvary Chapel that can be harmed by this.
There is no central “headquarters” or organization to speak of.
Some individual churches may be hurt if the people in it were heavily invested in GFA and weren’t informed of the controversy.
The only effect on Heitzig and Kyle will be if there are legal issues here we aren’t aware of yet.
Michael, Damien was on the board such a short time. It appears just long enough to get a good look at what is going on and then leave. Any effect on him is likely to be minimal. Skip, on the other hand, was there a long time. The government authorities are not under our control, so we do not know if this will end up in court. It certainly should. But behind the scenes, I am sure there are significant effects going on in Skip’s life. We both know that God is not mocked, whatever we sow is what we will reap.
King Saul mismanaged his authority as king and God sent an evil spirit to torment him. I have experienced enough real spiritual warfare in my life to know that Skip is paying a real price not only for this but for the other scandals he created and never repented of. That price is spiritual. Jesus promised his followers benefits that are intangible, but very valuable like peace, joy and a sound mind. Sometimes we need to back away a bit from our anger over unrighteousness going on and try to look at things from God’s perspective. I would not want to be Skip. What is going on in his emotions and family life must be tormenting. God is resisting him big time because of pride and his sins are retained because of a lack of both confession and repentance, which are not quite the same thing. The glory of the spotlight has ruined the man spiritually. When I see a pastor acting like a goat and not one of God’s sheep, I shutter. What a curse it is when God’s tells someone “I never knew you.” The deciding factor is how we actually treat people around us. Being callous about stepping all over others on the way to the top is quite clearly a characteristic of a goat.
Mr. Jesperson,
You may be right.
There are fewer and fewer things I’m certain of, however.
We very much need to know which board members were present that coerced Erwin to lie.
Eventually other stories may emerge of that meeting. I fully expect them to contradict what Gayle said in his document. That is why I am not taking sides on this. God’s perspective is not Gayle’s or Skip’s. Gayle painted a story that is leaning as far in his favor as it can. This is typical concerning scandal. I am neither for nor against Gayle. I am for the truth. I hope for Gayle’s sake that the repentance is real and it goes deep before he dies. I would not want something like this hanging over my head at his age. God’s judgment is final and eternal. When I think of that it sobers me up.
Mr. Jesperson,
From my many years of experience with these matters, I believe Erwin.
What he did was astonishing to those of us who have followed CC scandals for years.
might there not be good people who are going along, not to “get along,” but because they believe the counsel is coming from folk who are smarter or more spiritual? – possibly rooted in a belief that talk validated by material success and accolades proves wisdom and, more importantly, spirituality?
God give us discernment
Em,
I was just writing on that very thing for my next book…need to clone you.
To Xenia’s point, I don’t mind being bamboozled personally. But when it comes to protecting others from abuse, its a different story. My heart goes out to the diaspora that were run over the bus by Gayle the first time. Hopefully they will all find the grace to forgive him. The way I look at it is that it took 8 months for Gayle to come clean. And I wouldn’t expect the time to forgive him would be any less
They had all better find the grace to forgive him, if they believe the scriptures.
Matthew 6: 15
amen to #51 … then we can go on, but go on watchful and circumspectly, eh?
Xenia,
We are to forgive as the scripture teaches but when the abused have been lied to publicly, I can certainly understand a little reluctance to fully embrace Gayle immediately. Gosh didn’t it take years for many of the disciples to finally accept apostle Paul after his conversion? They had to test him to see if he was for real. nothing at all wrong with this testing time.
The difference is Paul did not have a 30+ year track record serving the Lord and a solid reputation among the body of Christ. His name did not appear on this blog before any of this in all those years.
That doesn’t mean everything, but it should amount for something in some so-called “testing time” before one feels it is OK to obey the commands of Scripture..
Gayle Erwin was mentioned here before.
I defended him when he endorsed “The Shack” and many of his brethren declared him apostate for doing so.
I can only hope that they received the same warm emails I’ve been getting…
I know nothing of Gayle Erwin, but I think him coming clean is 100% positive.
I don’t think I have ever admitted my sin immediately or freely. I am stubborn guy. Perhaps he is too.
I don’t know a soul who doesn’t think it’s 100% positive.
Well his endorsement of The Shack is pretty much unforgivable.
(J/K)
@21 Ted,
Geoff and Monica Darr, and Bryson (Thomas is last name I believe) were in the US office in 2013 for an international leaders meeting. The Austrailian office most definitely reports to KP. All the international office report to him even if it is through John Beers or David Carroll. Those two won’t use the restroom without running it by KP. The Austrailian office fell under John’s responsibility and as I said John is simply a channel to KP. If The Austrailian office is claiming independence that is just nonsense.
@59. Thanks chainsbroken2x. As I expected. How do I present this so that Missions Interlink have to take it as authoritative? What can I quote as the source? Are there others who will go on the record with the same information?
Ted:
This 2013 article verifies much of what chainsbroken2x stated.
http://tinyurl.com/zcsas32
It seems they represent themselves as representatives to churches.
http://www.churchatmoonta.websyte.com.au/site.cfm?/churchatmoonta/2/
Thanks BD. Yes, I have both these articles. (I refer to the first in my review.) Unfortunately, as far as they and Missions Interlink maintain, the first article just says that they set up GFAA with the blessing of GFA. And the words in the second, they would say, belong to a church, and are not endorsed by them. If chainsbroken2x is a former senior insider (I think he is) then his evidence is stronger. However, I will use it all – just accumulating at the moment. (For a response to Mission Interlink’s finding that GFAA have not breached its standards, and for an update to my review – http://www.tedsherwood.com – for the 2015 statements.)
The difference is Paul did not have a 30+ year track record serving the Lord and a solid reputation among the body of Christ. His name did not appear on this blog before any of this in all those years.
__________________________________________________________________________
Steve, what this means is that the diaspora probably had more expectations of Gayle and for this the original dismissal of their claims hurts even more because its a betrayal. Betrayal after abuse can be devastating. And to your second point, I’m not sure if K.P. was ever on this blog until recently either. I’m glad Gayle repented but it may take some time to heal. If K.P. ever repents, will you offer him the same grace or will it some how be different and he be tar and feathered for life?
I cannot take all the CC people complaining about how Gayle Erwin was treated by this blog seriously. CC had chewed up, spit out, and trampled into the dirt more innocent and vulnerable people than can be counted, yet you still have the temerity to express shock or offense when a man was roundly criticized after he wrote some horrible things basically in support of an abuser and very publicly remained silent regarding that abuser until just a couple days ago. You feel like he was trod upon and mistreated? Maybe you should take that feeling to heart and remember that the victims of abuse–the verbally, physically, and sexually abused pastors wives, the children who are raped by their youth pastors, the hard-working volunteers who are thrown under the bus after 20 years of faithful service because they said or did something that the petty potentate pastor didn’t like–have suffered 100x more than anything poor Gayle Erwin has endured–particularly given that Gayle brought it all on his own head by his own poor choices. Yes, it’s great that he has repented and made amends, but that doesn’t in any way mean that he did not deserve the criticism he received.
@ 64… Yep!!!
@65…Yep!! as well.
add another YEP!! to J2’s analysis 🙂
@43 Michael is right.
Michael. I would have answered you differently yesterday am. But you have caused me to change my mind.
You keep saying CC is not a monolith and I keep mentally responding with….. yes, but a house divided against itself can not stand…
(As evidenced by CC Oly sending their missionary to Canada. Meanwhile CC Aukland is trying to warn, protect, and otherwise just get KP’s junk out of their building.)
But the Scriptures came to mind yesterday:
“For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.”
I am going to stop worrying about the CC Movement losing credibility.
– It looks to be heading for a split anyway.
-It’s OK and pastors who behave un-ethically should lose credibility.
-Those that are concerned for the well-being of the Kingdom will be seen for what they doing as well.
-I cant find my glasses/cant see my typos
Nathan,
In reality there already have been splits and there is no one that all the affiliates are willing to follow as a leader.
I’ve written many articles here on that subject.
Thank you for listening…
@64
That is the real issue. Should have Nathan ever apologized to David for saying “you are the man”. No.
Sometimes we have to hear about our depravity before we repent and embrace our redemption. Such foolishness of people who profess to be wise.
Well said, Ixtlan.
The reason this became such a debacle is that ministers are not qualified to dobnb invedtigations or audit. Attorneys, CPAs, forensic accountants, investigators all should be part of an audit if truth is to be known.
Ministers, as a group, do not have the inclination or training to sustain objectivity and to bevsuspect of every repeesentation.
Internal audits are flawed because self monitoring does not take into account the desire of the flesh which, most often, chooses convenience and comfort as the basis for our decisions.
If an orgainization resists true accountability; their resistance creates a presumption that their motives and actions are suspect.
Operating in our callings is not only wisdom; it is a safeguard from self destruction and the destruction of others.