Gayle Erwin Discloses GFA Docs
Warren Throckmorton with the incredible story.
God bless Gayle Erwin…
I’ll have much more to say later…
Warren Throckmorton with the incredible story.
God bless Gayle Erwin…
I’ll have much more to say later…
Kudos to Gayle Erwin.
Gayle Erwin – thank you very very much.
Other than this situation, I have never heard of Gayle Erwin. Wasn’t he roundly denounced here recently?
Yes.
By me.
He released a letter that said the claims of the Diaspora were invalid.
He has now recanted doing so and has pretty much done more than anyone in the history of this blog in terms of repenting and doing what is righteous.
To be blunt, it’s overwhelming after all these years and I need to wait until I calm down and review all the documents before I comment further.
I had given up on anyone ever doing the right thing in these situations.
For me and those that have been with me from the start….this is a really big deal.
I was just looking for one of my own condemning comments that said he was only worried about the money trail, but not about those who had been hurt. If Warren’s documents are correct, his diaspora report was falsified. He found legitimate concerns from the beginning, and had confronted KP.
He did not deserve my insults.
sounds as though there’s some Jesus Style in ol’ Gayle…may his tribe increase.
Josh,
All we had to go on was a document with his name on it…and much time has passed.
Maybe it was hearing comments like that that led him to repentance.
All I know is that this is a wonderful example of what we have hoped for.
Josh,
If I’m reading the documents right, it looks like Erwin initially found much credence to the Diaspora’s claims and wrongs with GFA. However, after prsenting those findings first to K.P. and then to the GFA board as a whole, he was highly pressured and coerced into writing the “official” report where he changed his tune and it was put on file with GFA and given to the Diaspora. Erwin is repenting of having written this report. At the same time, in some of his correspondences with K.P., it would seem that Erwin was expecting the Diaspora to have been made aware of some of his initial findings and was surprised that they weren’t made known. Not sure how that would have worked. But that’s my take on the situation so far, anyway.
Bravo Gayle, you did the right thing!!!
May it be a contagious epidemic with more of the other cc guru’s…
i am so encouraged to find that this man, Erwin, is a man of God and a man of character – i will never forget him telling of calling out a guide in Hawaii who was blaming the Christians for coming to her islands and ruining the people and i heard that story about 100 years ago – the fear of the Lord, the beginning of wisdom
I’ve never doubted Gayle
I am so thankful that Gayle has spoken out. Sounds like he was put through the wringer by KP. From reading the documents it appears he has prayed, investigated even more, and now has the peace to publicly speak out against a tyrant (that he once had such respect for) and speak up for abused brothers and sisters in Christ. God bless him!!
We have to be more responsible. These are real people that we indiscriminately fling our poo at. In this case, seems he has been a much better person than I would have been.
Well done, Gayle. Wish I could apologize face to face.
Josh, come on out and go to our men’s conference at the start of the year. He is going to be leading it…. 🙂
Will there be any swag?
Josh,
Coerced or not, Erwin chose to write the “official” GFA report basically dismissing the Diaspora claims even though he knew the opposite to be true. Now maybe that report got changed even further by whoever else at GFA and the report that was delivered to the Diaspora and eventually made public was not totally Erwin’s work. That part does not seem to be totally clear in Erwin’s writings here, at least as much as I can make of them. But regardless, Erwin clearly felt that what he did actually write was not fully true or forthright and that is why he apologized to the Diaspora.
So being that the report had Erwin’s name on it and he has admitted his guilt to writing whatever part of it that he did (whole or partial), those who called out Erwin for wrongdoing in the report I don’t think were wrong in doing so. Now obviously, accusations and comments could have gone beyond that to a sinful degree, but without having yet taken the time to review past threads to see exactly what I and you and others said, I can’t pass judgment on them.
The wonderful thing here is that Erwin has now done the righteous thing and is exposing the wrongdoing rather than putting up a disingenuous or deceptive front and sitting on the information. He has humbled himself and repented of his wrongdoing in the case. He is potentially putting himself at risk legally by doing these things. He is to be praised and admired for what he is now doing.
I’m not passing judgement on them, but on me. And I do think that all of us have to be more careful in our mudslinging. Not the first time it has come back to bite me.
Yes, we do need to be more careful with our mudslinging. I have been guilty of going too far before, too. And if I had been in Erwin’s shoes, I very well may have handled the situation as a whole much worse. But I am very glad to see what is happening now.
Me too.
Josh @ 13; thank you for standing up. I was actually with Gayle while he was going through the initial PP attacks. His character was outstanding then and now. I REALLY appreciate your own willingness to admit your error. On behalf of a friend, thank you again. If you were to apologize face to face, Gayle would smile and say it is unnecessary. Then he would say thanks!
Thank you, Fyi.
As awesome as this is, it is nonetheless a sad day when we geek out over someone in leadership doing the right or honorable thing for a change.
FYI,
Now that’s interesting.
All we had was a document with his name on it that threw a hundred people under the bus.
You know how to get in touch with me.
You’ve done it many times.
You didn’t.
He didn’t.
We were using what we had…and what we had was that document.
I am probably happier than anyone about this turn of events…but I’m not going to let you guys make this a party on me.
Laura,
Well said.
Am I the only one having trouble with this site? I visit and the page shows this blog isn’t available. A few seconds later it loads up. I’ve lost a few comments as the site seems to go off line temporarily. Now I copy my comments in case I lose them so I can retry and they eventually show up.
Erunner,
There has been some weirdness…
“but I’m not going to let you guys make this a party on me.”
Michael, am I one of “you guys”? I am the one who mentioned it.
Thanks Michael. I can deal with weirdness!
Josh,
No.
I’m getting a number of emails asking me if I’m going to repent from CC guys.
They aren’t addressing anything but a perceived opportunity to take a shot at me.
I didn’t write that letter…
I still haven’t had time to review everything and until I do I’m not going to say much more.
Gotcha.
#20 – Irwin was “going through the initial PP attacks” …?… it takes someone of character to examine their walk and change course …
he read what was posted?
i confess that when i am reading the PP i tend to think of Michael’s mission as being directed to the followers, to get us to examine and be more discerning – at the risk of repeating again i can’t begin to say how encouraging this report is to me
I am thankful that GFA was a part of ECFA. Without that membership, which was widely disparaged by some, none of this would have come to light. I will not give to a church or other Christian non-profit unless I know what they are doing with God’s money. I urge others to do the same.
GFA is organized as a church and as such can hide everything from view going forward. No 990s and no public financial statements. They will hunker down for a while, exclude people like Gayle from their board and come out just fine. A sick situation.
***We have to be more responsible. These are real people that we indiscriminately fling our poo at. In this case, seems he has been a much better person than I would have been.***
I would not describe the criticism of him and other people associated with GFA as indiscriminately flung poo. There were a lot of legitimate concerns and criticisms. The way he initially responded was not in keeping with the “Jesus style”, and it was pretty awful. It’s great that he has changed his response, and it does speak well of his character that he has been able to repent and apologize so thoroughly. Would he have done that if he hadn’t been criticized to begin with? How would he have known how incredibly inappropriate and irresponsible and harmful his initial behavior had been if people hadn’t responded negatively to it?
Gayle Erwin was in a very tough spot. He knew things were wrong with GFA and K.P. Yohannan. He was working behind the scenes, at least with K.P., to try to bring about change. His original report verified many of the claims of the Diaspora. But he was under much pressure to change the narrative of his report. Unfortunately, he succumbed to that pressure and did change his report to be much more to GFA’s and K.P.’s liking. A report that was then to be distributed under Erwin’s name. A report that he has repented of to the Diaspora.
Unfortunate as the situation was, there should be no condemnation to those who called out the unrighteousness of the report and of Erwin who was the author of the report. Now, things can always go overboard and there can be a crossover from a righteous calling out to an unrighteous exaggeration and piling on. However, when one commits a wrong that has the depth and breadth of effects that Erwin’s report did, even if the wrong is committed under intense pressure that is not known about, one should not be taken aback by righteous “attacks” on the wrong committed. It may not make the attacks feel any better, but they should be anticipated and understood.
Michael,
I also was one just as an outside observer and not a CC guy and also one that doesn’t know or listen to Gayle, that felt before that you and others were passing some pretty intense judgement on a man (you and others specifically called him a hireling and a coward) without seeming to have all the facts. As you yourself said, you were basing on a document. You didn’t know about other documents from Gayle and what the real story on that other document was. Any reading of Gayle’s messages shows a man that not only was deeply concerned about what was happening, he was bluntly and clearly communicating those concerns to KP himself (and apparently drawing ire from KP for doing so). He may have made mistakes, but the overall picture I see from the released docs definitely is far from him being a coward or a hireling. Calling someone a hireling is a really intense charge for another member of the Body to make…I saw your comments at the time as one that really loves the Body that was just really frustrated at their (board members’) apparent lack of transparency/comment and also as one that was possibly hoping to spur them on to do come forth with more info. Perhaps your comment did even help spur Gayle on to release these docs, who knows. I understand where you and others were coming from and I think we’re all guilty of pre-judging at times and it is very easy to do. So I’m not trying to attack you (I genuinely love you brother and more often than not, agree with you). But I do agree with Xenia and Josh that this is something to be extra careful of and consider for the future. Gayle may have needed to repent. But so might we.
Chris,
I do agree that Michael, and myself, and all of us need to be careful when calling one out. For me personally, I usually try to measure my words, but sometimes fail. In the case of Erwin being called a hireling, after seeing all of this, I do not think that Erwin was a hireling to GFA and K.P. for the most part. Unfortunately, until yesterday, the only action of Erwin as a GFA board member that was made public was that of a hireling. His re-written report was completely a hireling action. A report that had serious far-reaching ramifications and was a significant part of the whole GFA scandal.
My response is now up.
Thank you, Kevin… very much.
But before it is lost, I do want to commend Erwin’s recent actions one more time. They are a breath of fresh air compared to what we are used to getting when observing all these different scandals. Just contrast Erwin’s actions and attitudes to what we recently saw of Skip Heitzig and his “hireling”. Night and day.
Michael,
Well, now that I’ve read your response on the new posting, it looks like we’re thinking a lot along the same lines. Even with the good “ol” Skip comparison. 🙂
KevinH,
You need to know you have helped keep me sane today.
My cat thanks you as do I. 🙂
Well, when you become rich and famous someday from your books, I’ll expect the royalty checks for being your sanity coach. That is if there’s anything left after Miss Kitty claims her royalties. 🙂
KevinH,
I’m just hoping to make enough to buy cat food! 🙂
Michael @23; the attacks I referred to were on a man many of us know personally to be Godly. You assumed the worst immediately all the while Gayle was working behind the scenes to deal with KP and GFA. The day these attacks came out, he and I were together (I read the blog; he had not) and he told me he was going to be resigning from the GFA board as soon as he could speak with the other board members. He couldn’t say much to me about KP but it was clear he was distressed over the actions of GFA and KP specifically.
My issue is that we have evidently lost the ability (or the will) to believe the best about people before attacking them. You have said the same thing about social media on your blog many times. Your comments about Gayle were personal and attacking in nature. Many on this blog went way beyond suggesting appropriate responses; Gayle was attacked as a wolf instead of a member of the body. I know you did not have the info you now have back then; why not just wait until you have all the facts before going on the attack? Why choose immediately to jump on the get-Gayle bandwagon ignoring a lifetime of service? We all need to step back and let these things be sorted out before jumping to conclusions about someone’s character. I know–and appreciate–your statement that followed but it’s not enough to justify the things that were said simply by stating you didn’t have all the facts. I know you are a fair man but it doesn’t seem so when it comes to anything CC related. Keep doing work that blesses many but as long you keep calling people to repentance in as strong a terms as you do, you are in a glass house and everyone is watching/listening/reading. If you are sorry just say so without qualification. Admit you rushed to judgment where Gayle is concerned. Please note I did not say you rushed to judgment where GFA is concerned–the evidence was, and remains, overwhelming. Just with Gayle. I do not speak in reference to Skip or Damian in any way. I don’t know them well and wasn’t with them through this.
fyi,
I refer you to the article on the front page of the blog.
I realize that this seems like a boon to you and others in the “movement” that despise me, but I didn’t write and sign that letter.
Evidently, the impact that the letter had on so many is of no concern to you.
How long should we have waited?
It took eight months for the truth to come out.
I’ve said about all I have to say on this as I’ve been quite clear and my attitude is growing less godly by the second.
Your response to me is dishonest. We have spoken, emailed, I have even invited you out to our church. I do not despise you and never have. I have acknowledged your contribution many times. I admire you personally. You were just wrong when it came to Gayle and now you won’t do what you have asked others to do. Be honest. If you would like, I will personally arrange a conversation between you and gayle. At least you can say you’re sorry privately.
fyi,
Cut the crap.
Did you read the article on the front page?
No, you did not because you would have seen the apology that I wrote.
You are correct that you have contacted me many times.
Did you contact me or give Gayle Erwin the way to contact me about this matter?
No, you did not.
We were supposed to assume that Erwin was a godly man after he threw a hundred people under the GFA bus.
How in hell can I call that godly?
Eight months later we see the truth.
We have responded with as much humility as possible.
If that’s not enough, then move on.
By the way, if Erwin wants to speak with me I believe you have my email address and phone number.
phoenixpreacher@gmail.com
calling Erwin out was the right thing to do… Michael was perhaps the better friend… those who have a history with Gayle Erwin, who know and love him should be grateful that he was called to account … Erwin proved that your esteem was justified by his own course correction – he did the David thing
a man after God’s own heart is, perhaps the one who can own up, confess and move on IN/with the Lord, eh?
better to be jealous for the integrity of God, than to be a loyal friend at the expense of compromising the Faith – this is a mistaken tack that i have seen in myself and so many of us – it plays out in so many ways – in our own families as well as in the Church family
Michael, my last comment on this because you clearly don’t want to hear anything except that you were righteous in all you did. Why would you (or Throckmorton for that matter) think Gayle or anyone else owed it to you to contact you. You made the unfair accusations. He did not feel the need to defend himself as he was already working behind the scenes to do it. You are mistaking righteousness for self-righteousness. Once again, you prove that all things CC are anathema to you and you are incapable of being reasonable. Take the log out of your eye. Your initial response to remains dishonest and you refuse to acknowledge it which makes it even worse. Some of your own advice would work well right now: repent and see how quickly and completely forgiveness would be forthcoming. I guess that is for other people and not for you. I am out.
Once again, we see that the CC Kool-Aid is stronger than rot gut whiskey.
No comment whatsoever acknowledging that I did apologize.
No comment on the fact that the letter was damaging and deserved the scorn it received.
Why would we feel like we should be contacted?
Because the public deserved to know the truth.
Now, you call me dishonest.
On the front page of this blog is both repentance and apology.
I have acknowledged what I believe I was wrong about.
You refuse to acknowledge that… and I’m dishonest?
This is classic slime the messenger style…and it will draw applause from some of your peers.
May that comfort you.
Some of your peers know better.
fyi, Not sure you will see this but nonetheless…… I spent over 30 years in CC and have been here about ten years. When I arrived here I was furious at the things I read concerning CC.
I was one of those who thought CC might very well be the church of Philadelphia, God’s instrument above all others that was to be trusted. Sadly for me I also picked up the attitude that everyone else was either whacko due to charismania or had no power in their churches or lives because of their views on the gifts of the spirit.
When things were stated from the CC pulpit I accepted it all as I couldn’t fathom men of God being wrong in most anything.
Through the years I began to question stuff I was taught and realized things weren’t as I thought.
Arriving here I challenged Michael on everything. CC was all I knew and it was almost blasphemous to me that anyone would speak them.
Time passed and my attitude changed as I realized things being shared here were true.
The things Michael has written about have pretty much all been shown to be true.
So when he went heavy with his GFA articles I read them and became upset. The biggest reason for that is Skip Heitzig was on the board. I thought that anyone who didn’t have the discernment to stay away from him more than likely was capable of much more that wasn’t good.
What I have seen through the years are many CC’s who are huge on the coming rapture were now calling out people in the body who saw things differently on a variety of topics. And as I experienced I’m sure those in the pews didn’t question what they heard.
Now we have GFA and three “CC men” who were on the board. Much has been shown to be true but many within CC can’t accept the idea they have been supporting an organization that is guilty of things they’ve been calling people out on.
In no way is this a sweeping generalization of CC as I know there are many changes taking place.
I’ve seen Gayle Erwin and he’s the last man I thought would ever be involved in scandal but when I read his letter defending GFA I thought “oh no here we go again” and he was now guilty in my mind.
When I think of you and Gayle I am reminded of Proverbs17:17 A friend loveth at all times; And a brother is born for adversity. You didn’t desert Gayle and stood by him through difficult times. I deeply admire that.
Some say you could have been a better friend along the way. For me it’s not my place to say.
Michael is doing his best to protect the body from sin that has invaded the church. His heart is for the hurt and suffering. He can be outspoken but I admire that I see him warts and all on this blog.
I think communication between Michael and Gayle would be good as I believe a good outcome would be the result.
I tend to ramble but that’s how I communicate. Hoping for the best for all involved. Allan
God bless Erunner for his rambles – well said – IMHO
God bless Erunner.
Period.
And Em as well….
“Some of your peers know better.”
Yes we do. Kill the messenger is the oldest trick in the book. Thanks Michael.
In response to #45&49
FYI If we are going to call someone to repent it also important to not hide our identity. There is nothing to be ashamed of when calling someone to account so there is no need to hide our identity. The blog owner does not hide his as he puts his name behind everything he says.
Our focus should be on what really matters here. The fact that our brother GE has come forward and has repented brings glory to Christ. There is no shame in repentance and a contrite heart. Gayle sets an example for others to follow that only Christ sits on the throne, not any mortal man this side of heaven………… and that is a beautiful thing.This shows that we must fear Christ ,not man made non-disclosure agreements, CEO’s, threats of SLAPP lawsuits ,or mortal men when we must protect the bride of Christ. There is a time to remain silent but then there is also a time when we must speak. I actually look forward to seeing Gayle speak at future conferences.
Ultimately Gayle’s action extends Grace to those who have been wronged , and to him, and last but not least brings glory to Christ. Finally it lays the groundwork for future accountability at GFA. These are all good things. Instead of focusing how someone has sinned against us greatly once they’re repented , we need to focus on how Christ restores greatly.
Thank you, pstrmike, Francisco.