January 22, 2020
September 17, 2013
October 1, 2018
January 29, 2019
It seems like, in this interview at least, Aaron glosses over the reality of the Person of Jesus Christ. I think he asks good questions and makes good observations, though.
I would answer him with a question: Who is Jesus?
Hmm… Have to wait until after midnight (provider restrictions up here), but very tantalizing…
I’d start with, “He doesn’t”.
What kind of a God “wants” to condemn a beautiful creation to a fiery hell? Rodgers asked…
Agree with Jim
I guess my answer would be simply that… Do you realize that you’ve missed the whole point?
He is completely ignoring the incarnation, the cross… John 3:16…
Young Life did bring a lot of teens to an understanding of the above… But Rodgers is judging God and from his words, he was involved in Christianity simply for his own pleasure – good company, good deeds, self aggrandizing … but he wasn’t searching for God, for reconciling his life to his Creator… just like the majority of the high schoolers involved in Young Life – they “outgrew” it… preferring pantheism or agnosticism?
Wonder what church he was exposed to… strange comment about 144,000… sounds like he has dialogued with the door knockers… maybe God will reach him when he is a has-been in his 60s or maybe God will really break his leg?
I think Rogers represents a lot of people his age (36) and younger.
He’s already been deep in the evangelical system and understands what it is trying to communicate.
He’s rejected it.
Standard evangelical rebukes won’t move him.
He is the average American today…
Having served as a YL leader back in the day (Note: I am Michael’s age therefore we can regress from that time line), we had leadership from multiple backgrounds, some highly questionable. The teachings we were instructed to give (YL talks) were of a basic nature, however, that did not eliminate the failings of the leaders whom themselves had little or no Biblical understanding other than enjoying the YL activities that incorporated the God talk with crazy events that designated attendees as the “good kids”. Or in some schools, the popular kids whom shunned the so called average kids to avoid YL so that the groupings remained a certain breed of kid (Football hero, cheer leader, Student Government, etc). Looking back on a few of those who I remained knowledgeable, “YL Summer Camps”, etc….the lack of Biblical instruction has left most wandering in the wilderness. Their rejection is a result of a “watered down” Gospel that removed all links to a “loving and Holy God” but instead makes God out to be a Genie to resolve all of life’s mysteries. Thus, a belief system that refuses to acknowledge responsibility for the “sin” aspect and the nature of repentance. If they want to point the finger at a God whom condemns (in their words), versus a God who bends over backwards to rescue us from our sinful nature and love us in spite of our sin, then the finger will remain upwards and they will cast their unbelief on others due to their platform (Rogers) and feel snug about it.
“I think Rogers represents a lot of people his age (36) and younger.”
Yes, and a number of older people as well. What struck me was not the question at the end, but what he had found “meaningful” earlier on in his life… building houses for the poor south of the border. It was a “least of these” theology. In our obsession with theological systems (many of them binary) we always run the danger of making Christianity about “how you think” rather than “what we do” in expressing that theology…
As a Viking fan, I’m supposed to say terrible things about Rogers.
However, I didn’t find him smug in this conversation…I hear him saying a lot of the same things I hear in other places…especially in regard to binary choices and the nature of hell.
If the problem is that what he heard was an inadequate or watered down gospel, isn’t the real issue a lack of catechesis?
Bowden frequently made the same point.
He maintained (loudly and profanely) that the only people doing anything of value on the border were Christians…and he respected that outworking of faith.
Rod Dreher chimes in…
I would want to continue the conversation with Rodgers. I would ask him where does he find God in his life today?
I think you answered well…the hope is in continuing the conversation…
Not sure i understand the use of the term “binary” here… but i don’t think God uses decimal points… ?
Don’t think one can be .75 member of the body. A wart?
A better way may be saying that everything is “black or white”…
It seems to me that Rodgers:
Has a flawed premise – God wants to send the majority of people to an eternal hell;
Has an incomplete experience – has never been regenerated;
Has a faulty metric – church was boring whereas Young Life was fun;
Has an unseen binary himself – it’s not what the church says, it’s this way…
Like pastrmike, I would ask him where he finds God today – he certainly isn’t an atheist. I would also ask him how he recognizes what is true and what is not true – what’s his epistemology. He’s definitely a thoughtful man.
Tim Brown, Pastor
Calvary Chapel Fremont
Thank you, Michael…. Everything probably IS black and white with God, but, as the old saying goes, that is way above man’s pay grade… Do we get our minds around grace and faith even?
Thank God for grace, for mercy, for forgiveness. Isn’t that what mortals are to model? Not saying we wink at sin, but…
Sorry to read about Aaron’s rejection of Christianity. . But we shouldn’t assume, like we often do in these cases, that the church of his youth or other Christians along the way did something wrong to him (although no one is perfect).
It’s clear from his statement that his main problem is with God and what His Word clearly says (the concept of eternal hell).
In my many years as a pastor in which I’ve seen a fair number of believers fall away from faith…that the issue has usually always been ultimately a problem with God and their rejection of His authority, or Word, or sin, or something like that.
There is nothing people can do about that. except change our theology to make it more acceptable to people like him.
Well, you know where that will get you.
Another question just hit me… Why did D.P., his new honey, see the need to publicize his view of The Faith?
This is part of a longer interview…I think it’s interesting and part of who Rogers is.
The thing that they don’t mention is that Rogers is estranged from his family over the matter…they are devout Christians.
“It’s clear from his statement that his main problem is with God and what His Word clearly says (the concept of eternal hell).”
I’m not sure that’s what His word clearly says and I don’t think one has to believe such to be regenerate…
FWIW… The aspect of hell was irrelevant when i confronted the “worthiness” of God to be God… I had 15 years of brainwashing by a mother who maintained that evangelical Christianity was the cause of all the world’s miseries. Like Rodgers, she was a nod to God believer who saw Him as irrelevant to life in the real world. But by God’s grace i came to see the gospel message as worthy .. . and it has proven God to me for decades now
“There are none so blind as those who would (willful) not see. “
What if people like Rogers are questioning the validity of many of the doctrines people seem to hold dear? And what if many of those doctrines are closer to synchronization with pagan cultures than they are from clear Biblical exegesis?
Questions aren’t bad, what is bad are the underlying desires to disprove, uproot and justify personal needs. Which is why when I hear many who have abandoned faith in God the biggest impression I get is, they really don’t want a God or Messiah.
Admitting there is a God who actually says there are better ways to live is a very humbling and convicting thing. I just can’t fill my most base desires and live any way I see fit.
Sadly our cultural heroes have more influence on us than God seems to.
“Questions aren’t bad, what is bad are the underlying desires to disprove, uproot and justify personal needs. Which is why when I hear many who have abandoned faith in God the biggest impression I get is, they really don’t want a God or Messiah.”
That statement… echoed a million times over is why I had to leave evangelicalism or leave the faith.
“Questions aren’t bad”…but the motives behind those questions always is.
My knees are permanently bowed, but I have real questions about things as well…that’s not allowed in most places.
“Doubt is not the opposite of faith; it is one element of faith.“
“Lord, i believe – help my unbelief.” It is a lifetime journey. God, who knows our hearts, really is patient and gracious. .. Pride does put a barrier between us and God’s truth, though… The little child thing?
The ease with which we’ve learned to write off those with questions is a sin in itself.
We assume that they’re simply too proud to bow or that they are protecting some sin they find delicious.
We rarely will acknowledge the validity of the questions…and they are often valid.
in a few years, they will outnumber us and we’ll wish we had engaged in the discussion…
I recall words to the effect, “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom…” The hardest hurdle can be the acknowledgement that the mind of the Creator of the universe (and maybe beyond) and us sees what we cannot even imagine – how the harmony of perfection is done and at what cost..
If that sounds like a mindless platitude, i apologize
I’m surprised no one has stated the obvious: Regarding Christianity, Rodgers is an armchair quarterback. 🙂
I was dismayed to read that his family is dismayed over his comments. Not. His views can’t come as a surprise, certainly, especially if they have any kind of relationship with him. But it does underscore a massive issue in evangelical circles–we tend to withdraw from those who don’t walk lockstep with us on theological issues. We haven’t yet learned the kernel truth from the so-called good Samaritan, nor do we seriously hearken to Jesus words about loving our enemies. Instead we whine to the choir.
Well done, fil. 🙂
I second that, Michael
I recall my evangelical grandparents ‘ example… You knew where they stood, but they never did it with an attitude of superiority – no one ever felt diminished as a human being by them
Re: Fil’s comment: his parents didn’t walk away from him because of theological differences. They walked away because of his sin. Make no mistake, Rogers (I am a fan) wanted to sin and rationalize it away with unbelief. This is not hard to understand.
If Rodgers parents walked away from him because he “wanted to sin”, may they experience hell on earth.
I spend too much time trying to help kids who have been “shunned”.. for not toeing the church line.
My kids want to sin too, but 10,000 fundamentalists and their big, fat KJV’s can’t separate us.
That sent my blood pressure through the roof…
“Your son just put his hand through the garage door window and ran off,”
” It wasn’t A***. He is right here in the living room watching TV with us. ”
“No, you don’t understand, he put his fist through the glass and may have cut himself badly . The children said he ran into the woods. ”
“Oh! I’ll call M***. She’ll go out and call him. He’ll come out for her.”
That was my garage window and a neighbor related a similar phone call when they came home and found the kid lighting a fire in their carport. not saying that is the argument being made here, but… My kid never does anything wrong is hard to justify. . So?
It is possible that because of his very public life, his parents felt the need to distance themselves. Right or wrong? I don’t know enough to judge. Would i do that? i don’t think so, but too many variables to be dogmatic..
Having children is relatively easy, while being a parent is hard.
As far as Rodgers goes, I’d be proud of his accomplishments and drive to be at the top of his game.
I have grown sons who are married, one has two sons of his own and I learned a long time ago their faith in God has to be theirs and not mine. The same goes for Rodgers.
The only issue with this video is, because the two of them have very public lives for some reason what they say gets a whole lot more attention and validation than the rest of us.
Now I can comment on their sports lives.
Dana never proved herself to be a winning driver in either of the top level drives she had. It is no secret that while she was an adequate driver it was her visual appeal and commercials which gave her the notoriety.
Rodgers has a history of excellence, loyalty and drive which led him to a Superbowl.
Both of them seem to be decent people, so I really don’t care about their religious beliefs and put zero stock in any opinion they might have. But, I would have no problem listening to them discuss their sports history.
BTW I do agree with his comment on “us and them, heaven and hell.” I feel the same way about religion (and many people’s “spirituality”). However, to me that statement reveals a huge hole in what is taught about God.
Oh well rambling on the keyboard again…
MM, good points and reminds me of an old saying ” God has no grandchildren. ” Some here might disagree with that….
Mixing sports accomplishments and many other successful endeavors with Faith might be a little like Dumbo’s magic feather…
I remember a story about a farmer out working his fields when his pastor stopped by. “You and God ave worked wonders on this farm,” the pastor commented.
“Might be,” the farmer replied, ” but, reverend, you should have seen this place when only God was workin it. “I’m a little slow to attribute fame and fortune to God’s favor.
That said, those of us who are committed Believers had better be thanking God. Every day. Good times or not
I’d wish him well, Godspeed, and a safe journey.
I’m with Muff Potter.
Might be wiser to listen to him some more before commenting, too.
Is this article about what to say to Rogers or what to say to his parents and family? I see some admonishing going out to his parents but not sure what they are guilty of. Maybe they have rejected their son or maybe their son rejected them. I can’t tell. If I were friend of Rogers I would probably also crack some corny jokes, that the only reason they are not in the Superbowl is because of his faith. Not. 🙂
“Might be wiser to listen to him some more before commenting, too.”
Two problems with this:
1. It’s the internet and they actually want the exposure and people commenting.
2. The two chose to discuss religious experience and beliefs and thus invited comments.
Why do you think two world sports stars chose to discuss his experiences with Young Life? How about his name dropping about the “Dali Lama?” It’s no different than Michael choosing to post this video, it makes people think, draws comments and makes a point.
No I think it’s okay to listen and comment, “This is the way.”
“The ease with which we’ve learned to write off those with questions is a sin in itself.”
thankfully Jesus loves me and welcomes me despite my sin, intentional or incidental. last time I checked, he wanted us to act like Him.
I like my way. YMMV.
Okay I spill the beans, “This is the way” is a reference to a recent Disney produced SyFi show.
If you have sons and grandsons they have probably watched it.
And you do comment here on PP as part of “your way.” 😉
Maybe it’s a bit closer to this:
Any question prefaced with “why would a loving God…” tells me that the person asking hasn’t really ever seriously considered who God is.. Omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent? Rogers denigrated that aspect and doesn’t realize that he can’t “put God in a box.”
Maybe time and circumstances will mellow the man. Maybe the God of his childhood will become clear to him. I pray that happens. I pray his parents don’t stop praying.
Rogers has been influenced by Rob Bell…and I suspect his parents attend a CC…
Looks like Rob Bell is a major panderer. … Also sounds like Rogers may yet regain his faith in an absolute God… I pray so
Our Lord doesn’t lose any of His children and we should pray as these days are assaulting our Faith as intensely as in Biblical times.. IMO
Michael, thanks for posting the ESPN article.
I think it shows that a lot of modern folks, like Rodgers, are turned off by absolutist Xns who are so sure of what’s right that they seem to condemn anyone else who doesn’t
see it exactly that way.
Adrian Rogers today… When Peter denied Christ three times and “the cock crowed,” it wasn’t the end for Peter. .. Even Christ didn’t castigate him…
Can’t we Christians be discerning without feeling or acting superior?
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