Jean’s Gospel: Good News!
Good News!
During this third week of Advent, let us hear and believe the good news.
âNow when John heard in prison about the deeds of the Christ, he sent word by his disciples and said to him, âAre you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?â And Jesus answered them, âGo and tell John what you hear and see: the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.â â (Matt 11:2-6)
In Matthew Chapter 3, Johnâs ministry was described as preparing his people for the coming of the promised Christ: âI baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry.â (Matt 3:11a). Fast forward to Chapter 11 where John, after hearing âabout the deeds of the Christâ sent his disciples to Jesus with a question: âAre you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?â (Matt 11:3) Jesus answered Johnâs disciples by pointing first to His deeds and then to his words.
Jesus concluded his list of works with: âand the poor have good news preached to them.â
The Good News!
The good news (or Gospel) is the ultimate fulfillment of Isaiahâs prophecy (see Ch. 61:1-2) which Jesus announced as is His own work:
âThe Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.â (Luke 4:18-19)
The good news includes the proclamation of the year of the Lordâs favor or Jubilee, which has its roots in Godâs command to the Israelites. Every fifty years they were to proclaim throughout the land a time of grace, freedom and release, in which slaves were to be freed and debts canceled (see Lev 25:8-15). The Levitical Jubilee prefigured the greater eschatological Jubilee that Jesus brought and proclaimed as the good news of the kingdom of God. Christians are living in the eschatological Jubilee.
This Gospel that Jesus proclaims consists of His promises of divine grace and the forgiveness of sins, leading to freedom from condemnation, renewal of the heart, resurrection of the body, everlasting life, etc. The Father is gracious to us for the sake of His Son, our Christ Jesus, who suffered and died for our sins to redeem us. No law or work belongs to the Gospel, only faith. Whosoever believes His Gospel will receive divine grace and the Holy Spirit.
âHow beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him who brings good news, who publishes peace, who brings good news of happiness, who publishes salvation, who says to Zion, âYour God reigns.â â (Is 52:7)
What greater work does Christ perform than to bring and publish the good news of salvation? It is a message to be shouted from the tops of mountains. Sin, death, hell, the world, the devil and every evil are scorned when a poor heart receives forgiveness and believes the divine promises of the Gospel. As Paul wrote concerning the office of preaching: âHow beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!â (Rom 10:15)
â[H]e has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich he has sent away empty.â (Luke 1:53)
But, Christ preaches good news only to the poor. Although He preaches to everyone and commands that the Gospel be proclaimed to the whole creation (Mark 16:15), it is good news only for the poor: âBlessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.â (Matt 5:3) Christ is of no benefit to the rich: âThose who are well have no need of a physicianâ (Matt 9:12).
Christ and His Gospel encounter two types of people. The first type consists of the rich. This group is rich in works, who think they are basically righteous or well (but, if nothing else, above average). They do not recognize or acknowledge their sinfulness and helplessness before God. The rich respect and prefer the company and methods of earthly rulers. A Messiah who socializes with and preaches to the poor and who loves and forgives His enemies is an offense and a stumbling block to the rich. The Gospel offers nothing to the rich: âthey have received their reward.â (Matt 6:2, 5, 16)
The second type of people who encounter Christ and His Gospel consists of the spiritually poor. These are people who have learned or experienced from Godâs Law or judgment that they are sinners who justly deserve Godâs wrath. The poor realize they are completely incapable of earning Godâs favor or justifying themselves before God. Jesus calls them âpoorâ because they recognize their utter poverty before God. These are the people of whom Jesus spoke: âFor I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.â (Matt 9:13) The Gospel is divine grace and mercy only for sinners.
Therefore, let us never become rich in works. If you need to ask: âTeacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?â â surely you are too rich for the kingdom of God. Christ does not preach good news to patrons. All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Him. Christ alone has accomplished everything necessary for your salvation and bestows it only as an unconditional gift.
On the other hand, if we repent of our works and confess our sins as David did: âHave mercy on me, O God, according to your steadfast love; according to your abundant mercy blot out my transgressions.â â then surely we are among the poor to whom Christ preaches good news. Let us, therefore, rejoice in our poverty so that in Christ we might be made rich. âFor you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich.â (2 Cor 8:9)
âTo him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.â (2 Tim 4:18)
âAnd the angel said to her, âDo not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.â (Luke 1:30-33) Amen.
Good News is Light shining in the darkness. May it illumine our hearts.
A to the men. Thank you Jean!
Back at you J to the B. đ
Jesus had a simplified way of describing the 2 groups he was speaking with. This was a universal truth as he traveled along;
Those who have ears to hear and of course those other guys – who obviously do not have ears to hear what the Lord has to say.
“Therefore, let us never become rich in works.”
I would prefer to say let us never trust in our works…the NT is replete with passages that say that works are part of being a believer.
This article pushes several hot buttons for me. I generally never disagree in public forums, as I try to be an encourager. However…
If we are superimposing the Beatitudes as conditions, and “only the poor” will hear the Gospel, what about the other ‘conditions’ of the Beatitudes? Only the persecuted for righteousness sake? Only the peacemakers? Only the mourning? I think not.
Perhaps ‘to him who has ears to hear” applies, and that may be the ears in all sorts of people in all sorts of casts..
Poor in works….omg….. that just sets my church PTSD in a tizzy.
I am sure I am misunderstanding your presentation Jean, but that’s what my brain sees here and personally do not find this good news.
If I am not unconditionally loved and saved, I am in literally one hell of a mess o’ trouble.
Paige,
What you have always demonstrated is that you are truly among the “poor in spirit” who know that it is only through the grace of God that they may be saved.
You’ve always been this way and thus you are abundantly qualified to receive the grace of God offered to folks like us who know that they have nothing in themselves to commend themselves to God.
This is good news for us!
“The good news includes the proclamation of the year of the Lordâs favor or Jubilee, which has its roots in Godâs command to the Israelites. Every fifty years they were to proclaim throughout the land a time of grace, freedom and release, in which slaves were to be freed and debts canceled (see Lev 25:8-15Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)). The Levitical Jubilee prefigured the greater eschatological Jubilee that Jesus brought and proclaimed as the good news of the kingdom of God. Christians are living in the eschatological Jubilee.”
I love this…very glad you included it in your devotional.
Well done.
Paige,
I’m glad you’ve raised these questions. I anticipate that if you are having questions, there probably are others with the same or similar questions. Let me respond to them as follows:
“If we are superimposing the Beatitudes as conditions, and âonly the poorâ will hear the Gospel, what about the other âconditionsâ of the Beatitudes? Only the persecuted for righteousness sake? Only the peacemakers? Only the mourning? I think not.”
The beatitudes are not conditions on salvation. They are descriptive of the folks who are blessed by Christ’s Gospel. Christ’s Gospel blesses these follks.
“Perhaps âto him who has ears to hearâ applies, and that may be the ears in all sorts of people in all sorts of casts..”
This gets to the heart of the article. People who want to climb their way to God, whether through spiritual disciplines or works, and people who don’t care one way or the other (e.g., atheists), and people who think they’re basically good or okay (i.e., God is fair isn’t he?), do not have ears to hear. Because what the ears need to hear is “Jean, You must obey the 10 commandments and you shall live, or else…” Not 9 out of 10 or 10 out of 10 once in a while, but 10 out of 10 all the time. Once the ears hear that, then a Savior Christ is Good News to the ears.
“Poor in worksâŠ.omgâŠ.. that just sets my church PTSD in a tizzy.”
No one is saved by their works. “Poor in works” means (in the context of my article), people who realize the their works earn them nothing before God, ever. They are poor in works because God credits them $0.00 for any work they do to earn his favor.
What God says to you is that because of what Jesus did for you on the cross, dying for your sins, He imputes Christ’s righteousness to you. That is where real riches come from.
“I am sure I am misunderstanding your presentation Jean, but thatâs what my brain sees here and personally do not find this good news.
If I am not unconditionally loved and saved, I am in literally one hell of a mess oâ trouble.”
Paige, you are unconditionally loved by the Father for the sake of His Son, Jesus, who died for your sins. You are saved if you believe my prior sentence. And that goes for everyone else here.
Michael, I’m not putting any of my hope in my behavior or public profile.
The way my (wounded) brain sees this article is seeing conditional acceptance or conditional ability to even hear the Gospel….I have very little spare energy to get worked up over much, but this is one of those things; Making the Narrow Way conditional.
Any form of adding to –even alluding of adding to– or stratifying the Gospel of Jesus Christ, is exactly why churches are dying, saints are fainting, some walking away and many don’t want any part of it.. They’ weren’t good enough, bad enough, rich enough, poor enough, not trusting in works enough or doing too much.
It’s one of those things that once you see it, there in no un-seeing it. It’s a 6th sense that comes from being burned alive.
Paige,
I hear you…I just wanted to encourage you.
It’s the ones that set the fire that should be worried, not you.
Bless you Paige. Thanks for opening our eyes to differing perspectives.
Jean, Like Michael you might consider rewriting that one line, âTherefore, let us never become rich in works.â
Paul actually wrote to Timothy to command others to be “rich in good works”
1 Tim 6:18
I know what you are saying, but it might be confusing to make a statement that directly contradicts a New Testament verse people might know and bring to mind, even if the context is totally different.
You can certainly make your otherwise good presentation without that line. đ
We should be rich in good works but must not consider them to be our wealth.
Xenia is quite the wordsmith sometimes đ
(steal that from her, Jean)
I know what you meant, Jean.
Let us never trust in the riches of our works.
And I am grateful for the Grace of God that allows me to…
Trust in the riches of His finished work.
Thank you everyone for the civil and excellent feedback. Let me respond to a couple of the comments:
1) I agree 100% with Steve that Xenia is a very articulate writer. I learn a lot whenever she graces us with her thoughts. I only wish she would participate more. đ I agree with her comment at #14.
2) Steve wrote: “it might be confusing to make a statement that directly contradicts a New Testament verse people might know”. I don’t consider my statement a contradiction for two reasons: (1) One would have to read both my statement and Paul’s in context to determine whether there is a contradiction; and (2) I purposely avoided using the adjective “good” before works. I do admit the difference is subtle when looking solely at both statements without context.
3) I actually articulated the thought about not being rich in works with the expectation (hope) that it might generate discussion. I hope people agree that it’s a worthwhile discussion to have.
In the Lutheran stream of Christianity, we believe that good works flow out of justification in the same way that a good tree produces good fruit or a branch abiding in the Vine Christ produces good fruit. Terms like free, willing, and cheerful are used to describe good works, whereas works that are performed either by compulsion or for recognition are not good works, but are works of the Law.
Moreover, we give credit to the God the Holy Spirit working within the Christian who generates the good works. We don’t even take credit. To take credit would be recognition. We might say: Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.
I was thinking on my way home this evening about a parent or grandparent who changes a baby’s poopy diaper. On our better days, we notice the baby being uncomfortable or smell something awful and we jump into action without even thinking about what we are doing. All we think of is making the baby comfortable and clean. On the other hand, have any of you ever experienced those days when you are not not in the mood at all, but you change the diaper anyway because it’s our responsibility as a caregiver? That may be a crude analogy, but I thought it might be something most of us can relate to.
Speaking of the Good News — this is not it.
I do not understand Tim Keller and why people like him – but here is another case of pure faith killing.
I think if I heard him asking my people these questions I would punch him in the nose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsStN5kKfX4
So much for finding rest in Jesus.
Here is more faith killing in the works.
Don’t look at Jesus – look over here
Don’t worry what the Bible says, keep your eyes on the nightly news
Get your free copy now
https://www.harvest.org/campaign/email-signup/israeliranisis?utm_source=ebook&utm_campaign=reactivation&utm_medium=email
Heaven forbid we simply rest in Jesus. Keep believers second guessing their salvation and afraid. The evangelical machine rolls on.
JoelG,
It’s amazing that we can watch it for what it is and evangelicals applaud it.
Only a Pharisee of our day would say and record that.
@18 I think the guy in the video is simply saying, “You better check yourself…before you wreck yourself!”…
…which is a rough paraphrase of 2Cor. 13:5
Promised Land, that cannot be what he is saying. He calls them Christians so they do not need to examine themselves to see if they are in the faith – all Christians are.
What Keller is questioning is their ‘quality’ of being Christian. He is bringing doubt to believers – he is on the verge of causing despair and possible collapse of the faith. Now he says he does this himself – how does he make the determination who is a sleepy or nominal Christian? Who determines this by looking inward – does anyone here answer any of those question in power?
He is no different than the faith killing evangelist who asks you if you are a Christian and you tell him yes and he goes into his moves to destroy tou faith – when were you saved, how were you saved, tell me your story – heaven forbid you should say “I have always been a Christian, I was baptized a one week old.”
What is a sleepy Christian? What is a nominal Christian? Keller is a putz and does not belong in a pulpit if that is his view of his congregants.
I generally admire Keller’s work. But that video for me calls into question his pastoral and theological ability. I became despondent just listening for barely over a minute. How many soul searching questions does he put to us? 10, 12? How many internal boxes must I check to gain peace?
Jean I think it comes from that attitude of “OK, enough rest in Jesus, now busy and sanctify yourself.” = and they really believe you can. đ
MLD, isn’t Paul addressing the church at Corinth?
Promised Land,
I don’t know your method of “examining” yourself, but mine would be to go back to the promises of Christ in my life – definitely not by looking inside to see if “I am doing it right”
I often object to the evangelical method of asking “have I accepted Jesus into my life?” or “have I given everything to Jesus” and the lit is endless of what we have to answer on the checklist.
The only thing that matters is “has Jesus accepted me into his life.” and “has Jesus done it all for me?” That is how we are expected to ‘examine ourselves’ to see if we are in the faith.
Think about – how many of the things on Keller’s list did you perform to get ‘in the faith’? Why do you need to do them to stay in the faith?
So to your question – yes Paul is speaking to the church at Corinth – do you think he is asking them to review their works to assure themselves they are still Christians?
MLD, I think it’s both. I look to the promises of God in Christ and if I believe, then I will see the effects in my life. I agree, as you said, the only thing that matters is “Jesus has accepted me into his life” and “Jesus has done it all for me.” Those promises will transform my life when I believe.
Tim Keller’s question, “Are you conscious of the growing sense of the evil of your heart?” is the only one that makes me pause and wonder what he is thinking.
“I look to the promises of God in Christ and if I believe, then I will see the effects in my life.”
Sounds transactional. When God reckons you righteous for the sake of Christ, what more do you expect? Does God have to prove his love for you with a sign? Do you want to live by sight, not by faith?
Christ died for your sins, but that’s not enough for you? You want to see effects? What kind of effects. Do you want to double your tithe? Triple it? What must He do for you?
Jean, not transactional…tranformational.
@ 30 The effect I want to see in my life is love. 1Tim 5:5
Sorry, meant to type 1Tim 1:5
Promised Land –
Remember, Keller is making the decision as to who is a sleepy or nominal Christian. He is out of hand judging people as not as good a he, or not as good as he thinks they should be – so now he is going to put them to the test.
1.) how real has God been this week to your heart? What does that even mean – other than to put you back on your heels and make you feel like crap “in Christ”?
and again what is a sleepy Christian – you are either Christian or not – where does the Keller version fall?
I just think as believers we need to “stir one another to love and good works”. Which is what I heard Keller doing. I want to be challenged. Hey if you see me living short of the life that Christ paid for me to live then please challenge and encourage me toward that. In Hebrews 10 the author is doing just that.
A sleepy Christian is a Christian who sits through a boring sermon.
Promised – this isn’t a challenge so much as trying to move the discussion.
I don’t know where your were on the scale of a ‘good’ Christian when you got saved – so place yourself that day on a scale of 1 to 10.
Now, these ‘x’ number of years later – how far advanced are you on that scale. Remember, the scale is the good Christian Jesus wants you to be. I stated as a 3 now I am a 7 — something like that.
As the synergistic “working my way to heaven*” member of this blog, even I found Keller’s list to be pretty awful. It was that kind of introspection that used to cause me to doubt my sincerity and therefore, my salvation. Who can answer any of those questions honestly? And how could you even try? I’d rather a pastor ask “Do you love your neighbor?” which at least can be outwardly demonstrated with some pie and lawn-mowing.
*Not really
MLD, I don’t see it as a number on a scale…I see it more like Eph. 4:1-6. I want to grow in love. Also, John 17:3, I want to know Him. So hopefully each day, week, month, and year, I know Him a little more.
Maybe Kellers’ 2 min. clip would have more clarity in hearing the whole sermon. I don’t know anything about the man.
Xenia- to me, it’s not about doubting my sincerity or my salvation. It helps me to see if I’m seeing Him clearly or not. If I’m in faith, believing Him.
Promised – he is one of the biggies on the speaker and book circuit. I am sure he is a great guy and a good Christian leader – but as I said in my opening comment, presentations like this clip are faith killers, and it is a favorite in the tool kit of evangelical leaders – are you doing enough for Jesus. Now that I think about it I do not think I have ever heard one of these guys ask — “has Jesus removed your burdens? are you resting in Jesus?”
I think I will “Keller” my wife in the morning and see if that improves her walk with Jesus —- or if it ends up sending me to the hospital. đ
If you are wondering if you are in the faith, aren’t you doubting your salvation?
I ask because this is the kind of agonizing I used to be very familiar with. Someone reads out a list and if you can’t check them of feach item, are you still in the faith? What other conclusion would someone who believed in this kind of scrutiny arrive at if they answered all the questions with a big question mark, which any humble, honest person would have to do?
Frankly, if anyone thought they really could put a check mark by each question…. THAT would be someone I would worry about because they are deluding themselves.
The Kellerites always want to leave you feeling lesser and inadequate in Christ – that you are not doing it right or you are not trying hard enough. This is why the evangelical sermon is not about the Christ (oh, he may get honorable mention every once in a while) but the sermon is about the Christian.
The Kellerites do not believe when you become Christian that you are now a part of the vine and that good works just flow from the vine, through us, the branch and then good fruit is produced. Somehow in their world we become fruit presenters – not fruit bearers.
I am glad that instead of constant Kellerisms, my pastor has laid out the road to resting in Jesus – that Jesus has accepted me into his life and Jesus has committed all to me.
It’s not about DOING, it’s about BELEIVING. (pardon the caps)
Believing what God says.. which is truth. And when I believe the truth then I will do. It’s a life lived out in truth..in Christ. It’s “walking in the Spirit”.
It’s definitely not “checking of items off a list”. An unbeliever can do that. It’s living out of the truth of who we are. We have a NEW nature. Live from that nature!
“I just keep on coming back to Lutherâs truth that we are simultaneously justified and sinners. I keep on looking at my own life, and at church history, and I realize that when the Gospel talks about transformation, it canât possibly mean an actual, literal change in this life of a dramatic nature, except in a few instances. It must be primarily eschatological; it must be referring to the fact that we will in fact be changed. The essential thing to make change possible has occurred â Christ died and rose again. (And in this life we will see flashes of that, just like in Jesusâ ministry there were moments when the Kingdom broke in and we see a miracle. And these moments tell us there is something better awaiting for us and God is gracious enough at times to allow a person or a church or a community to experience transformation at some level.) But we canât get into the habit of thinking that this dramatic change is normal, this side of the Kingdom. Whatâs normal this side of the Kingdom is falling into sin (in big or small ways), and then appropriating the grace of God and looking forward to the transformation to come.”
-Mark Galli
JoelG,
Mark Galli will surely live out what he believes.
More from Mark Galli:
“What we offer the world is not ourselves or our moral example or our spiritual integrity. What we offer the world is our broken lives, saying, âWe are sinners saved by grace.â What we offer the world is Jesus Christ and him crucified.”
Promised Land, we “live out” our faith by resting in Jesus. Based on these quotes I think Galli would agree.
Resting in Jesus – letting Jesus do his work through us. What the Kellerites are actually saying is the THE VINE is not doing HIS job or producing fruit – good works through us.
Perhaps Keller is saying Jesus is the Sleepy or the Nominal Christian.;-)
Promised Land – you are a good sport and I hope you stay on and become a regular here. Are you new here or someone who has changed their name?
I agree with MLD. Promised Land has brought up a good discussion.
My biggest complaint about sanctification messages arises out of Paul’s discussion of the flesh/Spirit conflict in Galatians 5. The whole chapter is relevant, but I will just quote verse 17 for purposes of this comment:
“For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.”
My complaint is that you cannot address the flesh and then expect the flesh to increase your walk by the Spirit. When you ask inward looking diagnostic questions or issue sanctifying challenges, you are engaging (1) the flesh, which is your body, mind and reason, which is focused on temporal things and various lusts (not just sexual); and/or (2) the Law – thou shalt or thou shalt not. But neither your flesh nor you Law are going to help you walk by the Spirit. If anything they will arouse sin, hypocrisy and/or despair.
On the other hand, if you want to help Christians walk by the Spirit, then focus on the Spirit. How is that done? By receiving God’s grace, which is delivered, not by the Law, but by the Gospel. If we have the Spirit, we have Christ. If we have Christ, we have everything.
Here is what we should try. This weekend we should all commit to being 10% more Christian and report back how we did. đ
Wasn’t there a woman who wrote a book about how she lived biblically for an entire year?
A few years ago my wife told me she could go an entire day without sinning. We both look back on that and laugh.
I wonder how God views Christians who at one time could “check off” the list of “good “Christian” practices but who, as old age sets in and affects body and mind, seem to lose their “sanctification”. I’m thinking He still views them through the Cross and always has.
If you quit sinning – you quit needing Jesus.
If only Kellers video was around for Paul when he wrote Romans 7:21-25. đ
I watched the video again. Maybe we are being too hard on Keller. He does emphasize mercy and grace in the midst of an awareness of an awareness of evil. Which is what Paul does in Romans 7.
Keller’s video that raises a division between the Reformed and Lutherans.
If a Christian (in Keller’s video example) becomes “nominal” or “sleepy”, Keller wants to start some diagnostic questions. Ultimately, to say “Buddy, were you ever actually saved”?
A Lutheran would preach the Law to the person who stops going to church with the objective of God convicting that person of his sin of unbelief and turning him back to God with the Gospel. Ultimately, to say “Buddy, don’t make a shipwreck of your faith; your salvation is at stake.”
Jean – Keller wants to convert Christians (his words). How do you do that?
My trouble with Keller is that he sets himself up as the judge of who is a Sleepy or Nominal Christian. That is a position I think he is trying to steal from the Pope.
I agree MLD. That’s the kind of verbiage that drove me away from evangelicalism.
It’s the lamb that was examined by the priest, not the sinner.
Wow! Am I grateful for that.
Even our good works are tainted to one degree or another.
Let me throw this out, regarding 2 Cor 11:5.
What, then, does it mean to “fail to meet the test?”
Costco has it.
Luther in his Heidelberg Disputation explains why even our good works are done in sin.
So Martin, what does it mean to “fail to meet the test?”
I’m not going to get any thumbs up for using the NLT, but to me, here is a helpful translation of 2 Cor 13:5:
“Examine yourselves to see if your faith is genuine. Test yourselves. Surely you know that Jesus Christ is among you; if not, you have failed the test of genuine faith”
Failing the test is thinking you are doing the work and not realizing that it is Jesus doing his good work through you.
Failing the test on the other side is thinking you must beat people into submission to increase their good works workload.
So I test myself – are my good works mine or the work of Jesus in me? If I say mine, I fail the test. As I proposed in my #54 that we can do an extra 10% this weekend, we have failed the test.
Rev Fisk answers Keller — OK, he is not answering Keller himself but he is answering the evangelical mindset that asks those questions – what if I don’t see evidence of sanctification?
Fisk’s video is about 6-1/2 minutes. It’s well worth it. It answers the above issues very well.
@ 51 MLD, thank you for the kind gesture.
That was good conversation last night. I am in the time zone on the right coast so I faded fast. I do hope to stick around as much as time and grace allows. I came across PP several years back (I’m guessing somewhere around 2007). Mostly lurked around..although for a short time I jumped into the conversation…and for the life of me I can’t remember the name I used. I “lost touch” the last few years but am pleased to see some of the same faces.
I thoroughly enjoyed following the conversation here and got to “know” many of you a bit. I thoroughly enjoy all of you.
I could be wrong, but I wonder if we are much closer in our views than we think. Kind of like saying the same thing but saying it differently from a different perspective. We agree on so much. Maybe it’s that we differ in what we put emphasis on. Just some rambling thoughts as I read through the rest of the comments here.
I think you’re right Promised Land. There are nuances, but Michael put it well when he wrote:
“When you arrive at the point when you are more fascinated by the person of Christ, than the doctrines around Him, you are much closer to holding right doctrine⊔
@ 57 MLD, I quit sinning because of Jesus!
JoelG, that perspective is a life changer
JoelG, another life changer for me is when I started becoming “son” conscious instead of “sin” conscious. Knowing Him…and knowing who I am…in Him.
I don’t know if there will ever be a time on this side of eternity when I will be less sin conscious. The older I get, the more sinful I realize I am. At the same time, I am trying to become more Son conscious.
Romans 8:1 …and repeat …and repeat …..
Promised Land,
Tell me more. I have never met a person we has quit sinning. I heard that John Wesley postulated that it was possible.
I’m impressed. đ
JoelG, sin is no longer your issue. That was dealt with on the cross.
MLD, I just reckon myself dead..dead to sin alive to God in Christ Jesus. I become/believe Romans 6
I haven’t gotten that far. I am still in the “I confess my sin daily”stage.
Are you into that Positive Confession stuff I see on TBN?
I’ve heard of TBN but I’m not too familiar with it. I have gone without cable TV for most of my life. Not sure what Positive Confession is either.
@ 80 MLD, sounds like you’re into that Negative Confession stuff đ
I am just asking you to tell me how you quit sinning. As I get older I realize that more in my life is sin. My list of sins of ommission itself could be written on a roll of toilet paper.
Now I realize that sin is no longer the issue with Jesus – that was settled 2,000 years ago, but I still can’t say abracadabra and make them disappear. You on the other hand have figured the secret of sinless perfection.
MLD, by faith.
I am glad I got to know you. The reason I confess my sin is because it is in the Bible. But you have freed me up to black it out with a Sharpie. My translation must be in error.
“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” 1 John 1:9-10 – The ‘him’ is not clearly defined here. Who do you suppose it is we make a liar – the publisher of this Bible?
I am looking for other passages to cross out – do you have suggestions?
Pretty cool thinking about this overnight. Since I have now found that by faith I can declare myself a non sinner – this morning during the Divine Service at the point of the confession and absolution, I can go out and have a smoke. đ
MLD, you are a saint, most holy, set apart for His glory…even if you go out for a smoke. But I wouldn’t recommend the smoke đ
@ 85 No black Sharpies on the Bible! MLD, you stopped short in your reading of those passages in 1st John. Put the Sharpie down and grab your highlighter (highlighters are good) and mark the very next verse. And also the following verses because therein lies the key to verse 1. Which is KNOWING Him (pardon the caps).
Promised Land, I think your statements about sin and 1 John are totally of so I will put the best construction on this and say you are pulling my leg.
Now, I am the one on this blog who claims to be fully 100% sanctified by God – I cannot get any holier than what I am. At the same time, I am still a sinner (or as some would claim a stinker) – in fact I am 100% sinner and can’t fix myself. Jesus has terrible math skills – 100% plus 100% = 100%
Question – why could Paul pull it together like you – Romans 7 he is a complete (and in the present tense) loser – wallowing in sin – trying to get out of sin and he cannot. Perhaps you could write The Letter to Paul and get him out of his stinking thinking life.
You almost had me going there for a while. đ
correction – Question â why COULDN’T Paul pull it together like you ?
@ 89 MLD, if after reading Romans 7, I come to the conclusion about Paul that you have- I would think the guy is schizophrenic. Doesn’t that contradict Romans 6 and 8?
Hope you had a great day. My wife and I enjoyed time with our fellowship today.
The reason Paul can’t pull it together is because is he is not talking about himself. (Now you’re thinking I’M schizophrenic đ ) He is talking about his carnal self, the flesh. (See verse 14 and 18 of chapter 7)
So the carnal and fleshly Paul, MLD, Promised Land will never pull it together. But encouragement and the strength of those chapters is that we are NOT carnal or of the flesh but we are SPIRITUAL… born again…we can, as verse 6 of chapter 7 says, “serve in the newness of the Spirit”.
Man I love scripture…
Verse 16 of 2nd Corinthians says “Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer.” (Because they got born again!)
It goes on to say, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.”
So if Bob Caldwell on the adultery thread came to your church looking for a position of senior pastor, making the declaration that he no longer sins, that like you he gave up sin when he came to know Jesus (for him about 40 yrs ago) all things being equal you would hire this sinles pastor?
And along with that why did Paul kick out that sinless Corinthian for sleeping with his father’s wife? I am sure it was just his carnal sell doing the ‘dirty deed’ and we don’t count that any more.
@ 94 He’d be knocking on the wrong door. We don’t have a senior pastor position. đ
MLD, from what I’ve learned (I speak from my own experience) as Christians we don’t really know who we are. (Who Jesus says we are). I know I didn’t. And when I started to see it and believe it, everything changed.
I used to think I was just “sin waiting to happen”…and that’s exactly what would happen. Now I see things differently and it’s brought such freedom. Truth makes us free.
Promised Land and there is the problem – you ‘know’ Jesus based on your experience.
I don’t trust my experience at all. My eyes and my heart deceive me. I know Jesus based on his word. You know, something similar to the phrase this is my blood…take and drink for the forgivness of your sin.
Promised Land,
You have leaving little bread crumbs out as directional clues for me. I just put them together.
You are from the east coast – the headquarters for the Christian Science are on the east coast.
Christian Science does not confess illness because illness is not real
Christian Science does not confess sin as sin is not real
Christian Science does not have senior pastors
Promised Land, is it true – you are with Christian Science (could be Religious Science, the Mind Sciences – any kind of mind over matter with religious connotations?)
@ 98 MLD, if that’s how you took my comment, it was not my intention. I agree with you. I trust His word also.
@99 I’m not sure if that comment was in jest or not…but I laughed…and I’ll answer. No, none of the above.