You may also like...

35 Responses

  1. Jean says:

    “Contemporary American “Conservative” Christianity Is Really Liberal!”

    This is an important article to read and reflect on.

  2. Duane Arnold says:

    #1 Jean

    Agreed. Troeltsch scared me when I read him back in the day. I always imagined that he saw Christianity as merely a “prop” on the cultural stage… If I remember correctly, even though he was a political liberal he bought into German nationalism in WWI.

  3. Jean says:

    I’m speechless.

  4. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    The Chriustian Post survey seems a bit slanted in that it surveyed “white” evangelicals – what happened to the blacks – those in predominantly black Baptist churches. I would guess theirs is pretty close.
    The survey to me seems to be a racial slur of sorts.

  5. Duane Arnold says:

    Here is the link to the relevant portion of the Pew survey –

  6. London says:

    The SBC guy claims they are defined by Jesus Christ, yet puts that as the third point, behind distancing themselves from Westboro and saying they preach fire and brimstone.
    If you define yourself as something, seems that would be first on the list.

  7. Disillusioned says:

    From the humility article — simple yet profound:

    Remember: the best conductor of all-surpassing power is a humble one. If God calls you to costly, difficult, or unknown actions, obey him. Your surrendered life can bring the next revival to fullness. “The thing that impressed me most was the humility of the people,” says another person at Azusa, “and I went to my room and got down on my knees and asked God to give me humility.”

  8. Dan from Georgia says:

    MLD, remember that persons of any other color than white are not true evangelicals!

  9. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Dan, perhaps. I just find it strange that they so emphasize “white” – when as I say, I know that blacks in the Baptist churches are just as wrong.

  10. Dan from Georgia says:

    MLD, it is an unfortunate spin that the CP had to employ. I am no fan of the CP and that article just reinforces my view that most of their “news” posts are fluff and borderline comical.

  11. Steve Wright says:

    MLD, as you know I reference the official election exit polls regularly and one thing that has been true for the last few elections has been the phrasing of the born again/evangelical question as solely for “white” born again/evangelicals.

    I’m sure it is to make a political divisive point…all the more since the breakdown is predominantly GOP which helps advance the narrative.

    Imagine a larger number of the electorate identifying this way (which would be the case if we added the “non-whites”) and that vote breakdown being much closer to 50/50 (which would also happen if the minority vote was included)

    Hard to villiffy those evangelicals and their politics if that was the case… it would also lay bare the idea that there is only a “religious right” and not also a “religious left”

  12. Col46 says:

    The article on revival and humility was excellent…there is no room for self in revival!

  13. Duane Arnold says:

    #12 SW

    I’ve just wandered through some of the polling data and its interpretation. I ran on to a Gospel Coalition post that claimed only 31% of evangelicals voted for DJT.

    I’ll allow, the mainstream narrative could be wrong. Personally, I’m amazed at the “non-inclusion” of people of color – African American/Hispanic/Asian – among evangelicals or, indeed, mainline Protestants. Do you know of any data or exit polls that delineate the groups in a more realistic manner? BTW, I also see LDSs included among either Protestants or evangelicals in most data sets…

  14. David says:

    Revival talk can bug the crap out of me, in part because the Holy Spirit seems to work where He wills, not where we want. In my Christian college a “revival” broke out before I was a student, the next year every chapel service was set up to mimic the settings where the first one happened. Never did, and things got awkward.

    My personal theory is that those who claim to have the patent on Revival (and always seem to have tons of money and are at least semi-respected and famous….) are going to miss out. If we see a renaissance of the Christian faith, it’ll come from widows and the elderly praying, along with poor and in need being served and shown the Gospel. It’ll be based around those who have no monetary gain and haven’t been marketing off of it for decades.

  15. Steve Wright says:

    Duane, there is one official exit polling company that is given the task and which the Washington Post, CNN, and other media outlets reference. Any other “after the vote” polling is obviously not exit polling and subject to tremendous inaccuracy. The Gospel Coalition is just talking out of their backsides….That is a ridiculously low total even if every voting minority self-identified as an evangelical and were included.
    Data for 2016 were collected by Edison Research for the National Election Pool, a consortium of ABC News, The Associated Press, CBSNews, CNN, Fox News and NBC News. The voter survey is based on questionnaires completed by 24,537 voters leaving 350 voting places throughout the United States on Election Day including 4,398 telephone interviews with early and absentee voters.

    In 2012, 2008 and 2004, the exit poll was conducted by Edison/Mitofsky; in 1996 and 2000 by Voter News Services; in 1992 by Voter Research and Surveys; and in earlier years by The New York Times and CBS News.
    The consistent use of Edison the last four Presidential elections is no doubt why the categories are pretty much the same in recent years.

  16. Steve Wright says:

    For completeness sake…

    26% of the electorate “white born again or evangelical Christian”
    (exact same percentage as 2012 when Obama won easily)

    Trump got 80% of that vote…Romney got 78% of that same vote in his defeat.

    As I have repeatedly said here, the evangelicals did not put Trump into the White House. The Catholic vote did. That is the vote Hillary lost this election, that Obama won (and Democrats have consistently won in recent years)

    The Catholic vote in the rust belt is what turned those states from blue to red and thus, the election.

    Not evangelicals in red states.

  17. John 20:29 says:

    hmmm … IMHO, we compartmentalize Christians, but the non Christian world sees all Christians (exception might be New Age Christians-so-called) as the source of the world’s troubles today (us and ISIS, which some claim we caused)…
    maybe, in a sense we are the problem, as i think we’ve tended to slow down the slide 🙂

  18. Jean says:

    “maybe, in a sense we are the problem, as i think we’ve tended to slow down the slide”

    I’m sure there is no American group with clean hands. But I reject the latest assertion by our Chief Executive that America is the moral equivalent of Putin’s Russia.

  19. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Look at our inner cities and our abortion mills. Check out which country has more troops in hostile foreign lands (and we still wink to include Japan, the Philippines, South Korea, Germany and no telling where else).

    Perhaps Trump is just the 1st one to say it out loud..

  20. Duane Arnold says:


    Many thanks. It set me to wondering. Korean Congregations in the Presbyterian tradition are evangelical and tend to be very conservative. Hispanic evangelicals also tend to be conservative (culturally/politically). They are numerous… Where are they counted? Are the pollsters considering African-American Churches as simply cultural? On both sides of the left/right divide, the numbers make no sense as compared to the reality on the ground.

  21. Just Me says:

    We need an article here on pornography and Christians. Would one if you talented writers be willing to take a shot at addressing this?  It is devastating marriages left and right, yet it is rarely discussed.  Topics here are deep and wide, which I love.  If it’s such a huge problem in the church, I think it deserves some air time.   
        I understand the blog is not a recovery group, a confessional, nor for airing dirty laundry.  There are dedicated websites and trained counselors.  I do think, however, that we could have an honest conversation about ministering to those ensnared, resisting the temptation ourselves, success stories of healing, and how to safeguard our own marriages/relationships, etc.   Comments could be general or personal, and I understand if people are hesitant to comment, even anonymously.    I am struggling with this in my marriage and feel so alone. You can’t ask for prayer like you would for other things, and it’s darn near impossible to discuss in general terms for fear it would implicate someone. I know my husband’s particular signs.  It hurts, but I have compassion bc I am tempted as well and know I could easily become addicted too.    Several on the blog have shared their struggles with infidelity and porn, and maybe they would be willing to discuss. 
    I am interested in these questions from the perspectives of the “sinners”, spouses, and pastors:   1.  What does confrontation in love vs. shame look like?   2.  Is it disqualifying for a pastor?  When?   3.  Is it grounds for separation?   4.  Have you witnessed or experienced a restored marriage?  Describe.   5.  Was it discovered or confessed?  Why? How?   6.  Are cases of adultery most often preceded by porn use?   7.  Does it increase the likelihood they will have an affair?   8.  How do you fight it once you’ve fallen?   9.  What accountability measures work, and which ones are a joke?    
       Thank you for hearing me.  I truly hope we will get a dedicated post here. A discussion on PhxP could impact many hearts, both directly and a via a ripple effect.   

  22. Steve Wright says:

    Duane, I too don’t like the religious grouping labels used. One stat I do like and find illuminating is the “how often do you attend religious services” question.

  23. dusty says:

    Just me…im praying for you and your family.

    I think it would be a good idea to talk out.

  24. covered says:

    Trust Me, as I am sure you know, there are many struggling with the problem of pornography, I think what surprised me was learning how widespread the problem is even with women. A Pastor friend of mine recommended a book that I recommend to folks dealing with this problem and I must say, it is a great tool that addresses all of the issues including the collateral damage that you referenced. The book is called Finally Free written by Heath Lambert. I think that you will find it very helpful especially because Lambert seems to take a very practical, realistic approach to this problem. I will be praying for you.

  25. Michael says:

    Just Me,

    I’ve always thought the subject belonged on blogs that specialized in the subject,but we’ve had so many requests that I need to reconsider.

    Let me think about it…I may just use your questions for the article.

  26. Just Me says:

    Thank you dusty, covered, and Michael.

  27. John 20:29 says:

    FWIW –
    coincidentally, i listened to a preacher/teacher today mention the subject of Just Me’s heartbreaking concern… he asserted that this is the one escapist addiction that cannot be cured in the sense of ridding one’s life of it once it has been “ingested”… evidently, it has an effect on the brain that permanently imprints… kind of like the baby duckling that thinks the dog is its mother… not making light of it
    this man said that one’s best hope was to recognize the damage done and move on to occupy one’s mind so completely with other things that this exposure would be crowded into the subconscious with the knowledge that it would always be a recurring and imminent danger
    praying for wisdom and strength for you Just Me… and God’s comfort…

  28. Disillusioned says:

    Completely agree with your sentiments about revival. I guess what I liked was the call to personal humility.
    No one can induce God to “show up” etc…! This was an issue at CC women’s retreats– the dreaded “afterglow.” Hokum.

  29. Duane Arnold says:

    #23 Steve

    The religious group issue really does skew everything – in both directions! Some examples:
    – Over 40% of the UMC consider themselves as conservatives or evangelicals – are they counted as mainline?
    – The Korean and Hispanic congregations I mentioned which are, in the main, evangelical.
    – LDS counted as ‘evangelical’ because they are conservative.
    – ACNA, half of whom are evangelical. Are they counted as mainline because they are Anglican?
    – Is LCMS counted ‘evangelical’ because they are conservative or mainline because they are Lutheran?

    I could go on, but you get the idea. Even in eastern Ohio and western PA, there are vast numbers of active, lapsed or inactive EO owing to immigration patterns. Where are they counted as they has a real effect on the election results.

    Lots of questions, not too many answers… Unless you have some.

  30. Siggy says:

    Did “white” include brothers and sisters of middle eastern descent? Curious…

  31. judy says:

    Just me: I’d be happy to talk to you about porn and the effects on marriage. Michael has my contact, he can give it to you and I’ll ask him to if you contact him.

    I would actually love to share the story on what porn did to my marriage. And how God intervened, what He required, what He did, what it all cost, and how it is turning out.

  32. judy says:

    John: Porn can be “unimprinted” and the brain rewired if you abstain from porn. I’ve never heard that it’s permanent and I’ve read over 23 books on this.

    But maybe there is no research??????

  33. Just Me says:

    Thank you, Judy. I will, probably not until late next week though. Would you be willing to share your story here, maybe as part of Michael’s article? Sounds like you have a lot of wisdom to offer. TUSM.

  34. Siggy says:

    Healing from it is a pure work of the Holy Spirit. God bless you and your husband.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Discover more from Phoenix Preacher

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading